All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

I they dont need help....well its strange they did use it...

Originally Posted by mrki

Juve will still cheat the way they did with Moggi, and BEFORE Moggi was at Juventus.

You got yourself a hell of an alibi for all the Scudettos Milan lost in the past, and for all the ones Milan will lose in the future !

Originally Posted by mrki

Mafia runs Juve, .

Mrki, where do you read these news ? At first i thought you get this info on Croatian TV, but i'm also a Croat who regularely watches Croatian TV (i don't live in Croatia anymore, tho) and i never heared all those things you did. So, it must be some other source who gives you the info or some Croatian TV chanell my cable TV can't catch.

Is this a war against the mafia that is happening nowdays in Calcio ? If i understood you correctly, you're saying that mafia runs Juve and that Berlu is also deeply involved in mafia bussiness ......so, as we can see, they are not very powerful to stop the prosecutors going against their clubs.
Hmmm. i guess this is really war against the mafiosi, and we can expect Palazzi ( the prosecutor who asked for Juve in C and Milan in B) to let someone else start his car for him !

But Mrki, you must give at least a small credit to the mafia and Berlu. Because if it wasn't for them Milan and Juve wouldn't have played in 8 out of the last 14 CL finals, and Italy wouldn't have played in WC final !

Not everything is as black as u think, you know !!!

Originally Posted by mrki

And would they beat al those teams even if they played fair? Maybe, but as I've never seen Juve paly fair, I cant know that for sure... from what I've seen Juve played poor against all those small teams and always got the penalties, cards and so on...

Aha, ok, so you gave me an explenation for all the matches Juve won. Would you mind explaining me now how did Juve lost some matches ( remember, Juve never played fair)?
So, did they lose from Reggina last year, played 0:0 with Treviso this year, 2:2 with Messina this year, because they didn't want to win, and because the mafia had huge bets on Juve to lose or draw ?

Or will your explanation be : You can't fix every match !!! ?
According to you, Juve never played fair and they fixed every match. You may try to tell me that sometimes there is class difference and you can't fix some match. Ok, i will accept that for the matches against Milan and Inter, but i believe you'll also agree Juve was stronger than Reggina and still lost the match, or stronger than Perugga and lost the final match in 2000, which ment loosing the Scudetto !!!

To sum up : Juve was stronger than Perugga, never played fair, and had the refs whistling for them, always showing cards to the opponents and penalties for Juve, but still : Juve lost the Scudetto in 2000 in the last and most important match, where even a draw was enough for a play off match against Lazio !!!
Something doesn't fits here, don't you think so?

You know it well I didnt mean it "doslovno" ( sorry for that croatian word but I cant remember how to say it in english ). Tony, its so ridiculous that Juve will be striped off the last 2 titles, when we all remember titles they clearly stole from Inter and Parma. And in that match against Perugia, formar president of Perugia, who was runing them back then admitted that Moggi requested them to let Juve win, after they refused, in the next few months Moggi send that man to jail for money fraud. He said it him self, I didnt make it up. You know i didnt mean Juve always , !00% cheats, but I meant that whenever its tense, it always goes Juve way, and its quite enough to get you scudettos. And those things about mafia, you know its truth, no need deniing it. Miccoli played for Italian NT just becouse Moggi needed to sell him, Lippi played players Moggi wanted him to. In 98 WC, Baggio didnt play becouse of Del Piero, Cesare Maldini revealed it. Its all about the multi milion proftit, and I dont denie these things didnt happen with Berlusconi and Milan, but Juve is the most discusting sport club in the world, I cant remember a single club that functions that way in any sport in any country. Juve the biggest club? I would say - Juve the biggest thieves in history of football, with no competition.

Originally Posted by mrki

You know it well I didnt mean it "doslovno" ( sorry for that croatian word but I cant remember how to say it in english ).

The word is "literally"
And i guess we should stop with this subject ( me and you , i mean). Our opinion is totally different on this case, and whatever we say we won't get not even a step closer !

Originally Posted by mrki

. And in that match against Perugia, formar president of Perugia, who was runing them back then admitted that Moggi requested them to let Juve win, after they refused, in the next few months Moggi send that man to jail for money fraud. He said it him self, I didnt make it up. .

Ok, i asked for stopping this conversation, but this really deserves a reply :

1. Perugga president said ONLY this: There were talks about letting Juve beat us, but if i sold them the game, i knew Lazio fans would have linched me.

So, he absolutely didn't say anything about Moggi asking him to let Juve win. And i really don't know where did you found out the info about Moggi sending him to jail.
And, if Moggi and the mafia were so powerful, why wasn't he scared from them, but he got scared from the Lazio fans ????

2. Ok, we know Juve couldn't buy the match from Perugga. But we all know that Juve had better team than Perugga, so all it took was a referee who would give fauls and penalties for Juve, and red cards for Perugga.
If Juve was so powerful, they could have done that right ?
But, opposite of this, we got a referee who was very fair, and who made a horribile mistake by letting the match to be played on waterlogged pitch, started the match 45 minutes after all the other matches, and there were absolutely no conditions for a FOOTBALL match to be played.

Now, there is an explanation for this also. The referee was Collina and Moggi and the mafia couldn't buy him or influence him....which leads us to point 3 ....


3. Collina was the referee on Milan-Juve last year, when he didn't give a penalty on Caffu, which by you Mrki, was another prove how Juve was bying the matches and the referees !


A lot of irregularities here...don't u think Mrki ?

i hope italy wins even thoug milan screwd up i think this whole mess will teach other genarations to fear italian football. forza azzuri. pilro the best player in the world cup

Again la Gazzetto has us going to Serie B in their headlines...seems after they report on the Azzurri success, they have to dredge up stale headlines insofar as the scandal is concerned.

Still refuse to be worried...and Berlu´s aggressive stance is also welcome.

Tony, we are not going to continue on this. But, as I've said, Juve didnt buy ALL the games, and ALL the championships. But, whenever they could or badly needed they got it. As Moggi said on trial: " Milan has TV and papers, Juventus needs to earn their money on the ground..." And about the case with Perugia president, I've heard a different story on this. But lets leave it as it is now. Im sticking to my last sentence " Juve is not the biggest team in Italy, they are the biggest thieves in the world."

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Lol, i do agree with GNL on this one !

Why does it has to be Juventus = Moggi for everybody ?
Why isn't Juve equal to Cannavaro, Del Piero, Zambrotta, Buffon and Camoranesi who didn't need Moggi to be in the final of the WC ( But according to all of you, they needed Moggi to beat teams like Lecce ). Why isn't Juve equal to Peruzzi and Inzaghi ( Jeff, he still dives... regulary) , who used to play for Juve and are now in the WC final.
Why isn't Juve equal to Lippi, Juve coach legend who, together with his assistant, Juve legend, Ciro Ferrara, leaded their team to the final ?
Why isn't Juve equal to Vieira, Trezeguet and Thuram who can as well play in the final of the WC ? Why isn't Juve equal to it's ex players Zidane and Henry who can play in the final if they beat Portugal ?

So, Juve can fall in B, even in C, but it's all fine to me, because Moggi was really doing bad things. But all i want now is France to proceed to the WC final, so Juve can have 8 current players and 4 ex players among the finalists (+ Lippi and Ferrara).
The world will always know how dirty Moggi was, but the world will also know that Juve never needed his BS, because Juve was really the best team in Italy !

Juve as an institution lost a lot with men like Moggi, but Italian football will lose even more with Juventus going down ! Yes Warro, they will, although you disagreed with it in one previous post of yours !

yes, finally i see some sense from you. juve is a good team even without moggi but they won't be on top of Milan if they don't have Moggi. i do hope to see juve playing in Serie A but not the cheating crap they dish out time and again. AC Milan is best team in italy though, not juve who can only be a close second.

Tony, about Italian football being/not being hurt by Juve´s possible relegation...

Can you explain to me, how Italian football (which, now that the Azzurri are in the WCup final [FORZA AZZURRI!] will be on a "high") will suffer?

Say if Man United, one of the more popular clubs in the EPL gets relegated, for sporting or in some scandal..what will happen to the EPL? Nothing in my opinion...the league will go on...

Similarly, if Madrid gets the boot to the Segundo, does Spanish football collapse?

I fail to see what will happen to Serie A, except maybe that an over-performing "minnow" club may get to the UCL for the first time in their history(a wonderful day for them)and/or that the Serie B gets an explosion of interest from media, fans, et al, and thus gets a much needed financial boost, coupled with increased media exposure from a global perspective.

Still dont see any negatives for Serie A, and if Milan (which I maintain will not be demoted) remain in A, it only makes it easier for us to win a couple of scudetti, while Juve try (and fail on their first attempt) for promotion...fueling even more interest in the Serie B, which on a whole, should be good for Italian football.

Do you know which league is the most popular (richest, and most watched) in Europe after the big 5 of Italy, Spain, England, Germany and Holland?.....................wait for it.....wait for it.........its the Championship...yes, the English First Division...believe it or not.

Juve´s relegation to B, would create the potential for Italy´s "forgotten" Serie B to get some money and increased exposure...so again, where are the negatives? Sorry, dont see them.

So, in conclusion, the fears that Juve´s demotion will have ill effects on Italian football, are for me unfounded, and exist soley in the minds of fretful Juve fans who will make any argument, any excuse, to not see their beloved club getting demoted.

I understand, I would probably be doing the same things if I felt Milan were sure to go down.

Originally Posted by Hitman

GRE-NO-LI BTW: I'm against the punishment of institutions... individuals must be punished, not institutions! So let's hang Moggi, Meani, etc., but let's put Juventus, Milan, etc. out of that mess!


Totally agree. Why should the clubs be punished? It is certain persons who has put Italian football in this mess without the knowledge of the clubs...
Although I am not a Juve fan, I would hate to see them relegated.

I do not agree, institutions are made by the men who manage them, so Juventus IS Moggi and Giraudo and Milan IS Galliani, if they are found guilty, so the club are guilty too.

from goal:

A post-World Cup final date (July10th) has thankfully been set for declarations of the first punishments for the referees, directors and clubs involved in the scandal.

Still, the timing of the court’s announcement, coupled mainly with the prosecution’s suggested penalties, came in for criticism. A leading senator went as far as to say that if Italy ended up crumbling in fortress Dortmund, the public would know exactly who to blame.

In the end, it didn’t matter, and the team’s eminently possible march to World Cup immortality could do much to renew the flagging faith some Italians now have in the once-beautiful game. This chance was in danger of ruin.

The senator’s sentiments were essentially that the players and, most importantly, the fans, should not be punished for the actions of the guilty parties. However, looking at the possible penalties (and hefty ones they are) discussed in recent days, the same feelings crop up.

Emotions are running high, and we would all like to see some major heads roll. Equally, everybody is watching closely to see if discrepancies are dealt with fully and frankly rather than, as has occurred in the past, we get the customary compromise or, worse still, the sweeping of obvious problems under an already bulging carpet.

But I see a danger here. Leading Italian media outlets expect (and I think hope) that Juventus, Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina get relegated, and that the further down they go the better (especially the Bianconeri). Then again, these sources are partisan and not without agenda. Their expectations may actually translate into little fact in the long run.

The prosecution-recommended punishments were serious as expected. Five-year bans lie in wait for those directors and referees involved. Juve could head to Serie C with a points penalty and lose past Scudettos, while the other three could end up in Serie B with deductions also.

However, exactly who is being punished here? Above all, I see two groups fitting that bill - fans and players. Neither of whom have done anything wrong.

Depriving loyal (albeit somewhat disillusioned) fans of top-flight football, at home and in Europe, as well as the likely loss of star performers which not only lowers entertainment value but presents a barrier to promotion, is the most significant as well as morally problematic result of this enforced demotion.

And what of these players? Many of them would ordinarily have no intention of leaving, and may be happy and settled (as are their families) with their clubs and lives. What’s more, staying at their clubs may not even be an option due to the financial repercussions of dropping down a league for their employers.

Additionally, there are financial implications for those left in Serie A. What will the television money (which many clubs rely on to stay afloat) be like if La Vecchia Signora and the Rossoneri aren't invited to the big party? The whole idea seems wracked with problems to me, a rushed decision made during a period of anger, emotion, shame and feelings of injustice.

Details of the case will probably highlight Juve as the guiltiest party, and in all likelihood they will be punished the most. Perhaps relegation is the answer for them, but over-egging the pudding could do more harm than good.

Certainly, taking titles away is unproblematic in this sense, even if it is a weightless and somewhat farcical form of punishment. Quite what the new ‘victors’ for 04/05 and 05/06 are supposed to do with and think about this new ‘honour’ is beyond my capacity to speculate.

The culture of Italian football evidently needs to change, and I am all for punishments that maximise discomfort for those who are guilty. Time is also of the essence.

However, if reports are anything to go by, there seems to be madness in the method.

The judge must give all consideration and be perceptive enough to see the very real results of the final decision, and do so in an independent frame of mind far removed from the global, national and social pressures to wield the iron fist, not to mention the bloodthirsty Italian press.

Wield away I say, but it must be calculating. As cynical as it sounds, this whole affair has showcased how truly innocent parties in the football world are rarer than perceived. They should be protected from those that have undermined their faith, not persecuted for it.

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if milan are infact relegated i can see belusconi taking milan out of seria A, just like moratti threatened with inter... one thing Stefano Palazzi hasnt thought about is that if Milan and juve are out, whos to say that Mediaset and Rai are going to pay for Tv rights? they could both turn round and refuse to pay... this would cause chaos in seria A

one thing that really enoyed me today was the daily mail in the uk did a shopping guide for all the italian players, saying "gattuso will be a cheap alternative to roy keane"

personally Juve starting seria B with -20 points is harsh enough, as they wont be in europe for 2 years... if, if italy win the world cup then it would be great for the nation if they could be well represented in the champ league, and it would be alful for Milan, lazio and fiorentina to lose all of there great players abroad!!

We are not get relegated, let's pray with all our faith!

I hope that we're not geting relegated ..
Kaka' for sure would leave milan .. and not only him but IMO gilardino , nesta etc ..