All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Long post...sorry


Warro, Italian football WILL lose. Not stop existing, not be destroyed...but Lose. And it will happen only if Juve falls, not to mention what will happen if Milan also falls.

1. Do you think all the best player will play for another Italian clubs ? With the exception of Inter, Milan and maybe Roma-Fiorentina, who can afford to have players like Trezeguet, Vieira, Buffon, Zambrotta, Camoranesi, Nedved, Zlatan etc ? Or if Milan also falls, it makes things even more complicated : you now have even Kaka, Pirlo and all the others.
It's sure that many of them will continue playing in another leagues, so it automatically makes Serie A less attractive than Premier league or Primera, and it automatically means less money for Italy.

2. Italian NT will also lose if Juve spends 3-4 years in lower league. Mrki says Moggi had his own bussiness running with the NT. Well, Ok, Lippi shouldn't have taken any Juve players if that was the case, but does it means Italy would have made the same success, and play in WC final ?
I tend to believe that Pirlo wouldn't have been the Pirlo we know, if he played in Inter or some smaller Italian clubs, because every team school has something different, and he learned a lot in Milan. The same goes for Zambrotta, Buffon, Camo, Del Piero, even Cannavaro ( do u remember how bad he played in Inter, and how good he played in Juve and Italian NT)... Juve has a lot to do with players like Zambrotta being what they are, and with the exception of legends such as Maldini and Baresi, almost everything Italian defenders offered in last 20 years, was something very typical for Juve school defense.
The question is...will all these men who "created" many Juve brilliant players continue working in Italy after Juve falls, or they'll maybe go abroad, and start creating players for Manchester Utd or Real Madrid ???

3. Not that i care about TV rights...but you're wrong about it also.
I don't know the correct numbers, so i'll only speculate.
Serie A was bringing 1 Billion from TV rights, Serie B only 10 Million.
With Juve demoted, i guess Serie A profit goes down for at least 30%, and Serie B profit goes up for 1000%.
Meaning: 700 Million in Serie A - 100 Million for Serie B ..... it's less than the years when Juve was in A, in any case.
Now what if Milan also falls ...... you may not believe it, but i'm sure it will not be Serie A only losing a bit, but it will mean a disaster.



You once tried to compare Milan from 1981 with Juve 2006, and you told me that Italian football survived Milan's relegation successfully, and wasn't affected from it.
But i guess you didn't concider the fact that Milan with 9 won scudettos was sharing the 4th place in best Italian team in history standings list( today it will be...hmmmm, Genoa is 4th best italian team of all time, with 9 Scudettos, but since they are not in serie A, it will be something like Fiorentina), you didn't see how many NT players Milan had ( all N. Teams, not just Italian), and how many Scudettos Milan won in last 15-16 years before being demoted to lower league ( i'll help you with this : they won only 1 Scudetto). Milan should have played in UEFA Cup the next year if wasn't demoted etc etc.

Oh, and i really do believe that it will be a long term shock if Real Madrid falls in Segundo !


Before i finish this post, i will again say how much i'm proud that the "disaster" and "shame" of football, the "biggest thieves in history" - Juventus, is the only team in the world with 13 of it's current or ex players, and Marcello Lippi, being involved in WC final match. I'm aware of the current situation, and i'm 99.9% sure that Juve will fall in B or C, so i must tell you that this WC final will be special for me, because it will probably be the last time i'll see all these Juve legends playing together, showing again that they are the best ( for MM members, second best). Yep, i know, Juve school produced champions only ! Juventus.com said it perfectly : Il Mondiale dice ......Juve

At the end : Moggi !
I don't like him, and he really was a shame for the football. But i can only say that he ruined the image of the Italian football, not the quality. Quality never suffered because of him.
And how can quality suffer, when it was him who brought in Italy Diego Maradona and Zinedine Zidane...2 of the best 3 players in football history. Thanks for all the great players you brought Moggi, and burn in hell for everything else !!!

Actually Gila and Gattuso have stated that they will stay at Milan even if we're relegated. Dunno about the rest though...

I am not that worried yet. I just don't see us getting relegated.

In a funny way, we (milan) are sort of on a knife's edge here - we could fall on one side to the deep, dark despair, or on the other to a land of probably riches.

Here is my thinking:

If we dont get relegated - say we cop a massive fine and deducted 15 points in Serie A this season (pretty much what we are expecting isnt it?), and Juve end up in B (Or C, but I dont think clubs will recieve the absolute worst case scenarios), then we may profit big time.

Juve may decide to loan out a few of their bigger players, and the majority of those will want to stay in Italy. Only really us and Inter can afford some of the mammoth wages, so we would be first in line. We may not get to own these players, but at least use them for a season or two. Im thinking players like Buffon, Canna, Zambrotta, Trez, Thuram etc - one or two may even be sold to us, ie Buffon.

Same goes if Lazio and Fiorentina drop, which isnt totally out of probably because the other 3 clubs have been charged with different charges to us. There is a good chance those 3 will drop, while we wont. Oddo from Lazio would be nice.

Time will tell, but even with the Azzurri in the final, it is hard for fans not to think about the season ahead.

Of course if we get relegated all this turns to ****...but if we stay up...

FORZA MILAN AND FORZA AZZURRI!!!

HOnestly, Tony, is the ITalian Media giving daily reports on the trail? If so, can u pls update me with what they are saying....

THanks

I am pretty sure Juve will go to B and that we will get no more than a points reduction. Last report from Italy is about Juve "accepting" a demotion to serie B, yup you heard it right, straight from their lawyer. Probably about them making a deal as to not go down further. Only read what Lazio said too and they willnot accept any blame it seems like. altough I got news from Italian translations.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Long post...sorry

Warro, Italian football WILL lose. Not stop existing, not be destroyed...but Lose. And it will happen only if Juve falls, not to mention what will happen if Milan also falls.

On short term, yes assurdedly. But I think that in the long term they may win on this. Just like the English teams won a lot on the problems they had with hooligans and the demotion from europe. They won in the long term as they got rid of bad influences on the arenas, have more audience than ever and make mroe moeny than ever.

In the same way do I think Italy could win on this by changing their system and federation, it is due time and Italian football have been a sick child for several years now with less people watching and economic collapses all around. I also heard about many not watching the league because they "knew" that it was corrupted. with punishments here they could change their mind, but without them I will expect even less people on the games... Even with Moggi lost to the sport.

Originally Posted by kris

I am pretty sure Juve will go to B and that we will get no more than a points reduction. Last report from Italy is about Juve "accepting" a demotion to serie B, yup you heard it right, straight from their lawyer. Probably about them making a deal as to not go down further. Only read what Lazio said too and they willnot accept any blame it seems like. altough I got news from Italian translations.

You are right Kris
Juventus lawyer Cesare Zaccone said that serie B with points deduction will be acceptable.

LOL! The chickens coming home to roost! I thought the lot said JUVE WERE GUILTY! That they must go down and that we are squeeky clean.
Some say we are only getting a points deduction but also said we would never be involved and STILL WRONG... because the prosecution has asked for us to be demoted. Gee! You guys are really good at calling plays!
Why dont you guys ask the expert? The one guy whose got it right all along. I really find it hillarious at how many late comer experts there suddenly are. Took you guys til page 80+ to get it right. And you lot are still wrong. LMAO!

Originally Posted by Jeff

No; I disagree with you because Milan management has been very quick in terms of putting the accusation off. Once prosecutors announced their 'hopeful' verdict, Galliani and Berlusconi comes out, stand up and speak.

Sorry to interupt Jeff... BUT.... did you not tell me back on page 9 or wherever the heck in this thread that, "Milan didnt need to be quick to say anything professing innocence?" I could have sworn that was you. I will have to find the quote.

Ah here it is page 11 & 12 post number(s) 160 & 171

Originally Posted by Jeff

IF I were Milan management, I think it will be better for any player/staff not to talk about it at this stage of the time:

Originally Posted by Jeff

BUt I still don't get it. Why do you want to hear from the Milan management? What do you expect them to say?

Now I'll give you a chance to reclarify what you meant at that time. My point however is that Milan's silence according to your latest debate with Tony29 is sketchy and could possibly mean culpability. Apparently they werent as quick as you had claimed. After all you did say the above did you not?

In my family... to presume innocence is to say first and foremost the presumption of innocence towards those accused and in doing so be the first to get up and prove one's own innocence by cooperation and candor. This didnt happen from Milan Jeff. What happen was the deafening silence and then Berlu demanding titles that Juve had won over the past couple of seasons. So this club b!tch slapped any presumption of innocence towards our league rivals and instead of candor demanded something that might not have been ours in the first place. Any thoughts to this?!

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

You are right Kris
Juventus lawyer Cesare Zaccone said that serie B with points deduction will be acceptable.

Charlie you got it wrong.
He said that if Juve is found guilty and sentenced for sportive fraud, Serie B should be the maximum punishment !

La prospettiva di finire il serie B spaventa i giocatori del Milan. Premesso che soltanto in caso di retrocessione per illecito sportivo un giocatore ha la possibilità di rescindere il proprio contratto vediamo quali potrebbero essere i rossoneri che in caso di serie cadetta scapperebbero da Milanello. Kakà. il giocatore che attualmente ha l’ingaggio più alto in casa Milan (4,8 milioni di euro) sarebbe il primo a partire. La destinazione è ormai nota: lo attende il Real Madrid. Ma non sarebbe il solo a fare le valigie: lo seguirebbero infatti i connazionali Dida, Amoroso e Cafu (quest’ultimo destinazione San Paolo, Marcio, invece attratto dall’idea di fare un’esperienza negli Emirati Arabi), ma anche Jankulovski, Vogel , Seedorf, Kalac. Anche Nesta il cui contratto scadrà nel 2008 e fino ad oggi non ha trovato un accordo con Galliani per il rinnovo, potrebbe interrompere il suo rapporto con il club di via Turati. Incerta invece la situazione di Pirlo e Gilardino. Chi invece è quasi certo di restare è il cosiddetto “zoccolo duro” del Milan, ovvero quei giocatori che hanno ormai deciso di chiudere la carriera in rossonero come Maldini, Costacurta, Inzaghi, Serginho e Fiori. Gattuso infine rischia di dover combattere con il seguente dissidio: soddisfare anzitempo il desiderio di giocare nel campionato inglese o sacrificarsi per la causa del Milan?

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Originally Posted by Tony 29

Charlie you got it wrong.
He said that if Juve is found guilty and sentenced for sportive fraud, Serie B should be the maximum punishment !

Hmmmm, and it's interesting how most of the papers have the tittle " Juve accept Serie B" and some of them have lawyer's sentence “Demotion to Serie B with docked points would be a congruous punishment,” without mentioning that he also said "if they find that Juve did commit sporting fraud "


But of course, this can as well be preparing the ground for Juve fans to accept the fact that Juve is going down. The lawyer never said Juve accepts Serie B as it's stated in the papers, but i'm not so sure if that's not exactly what he ment !

Originally Posted by _MaJi_tz

La prospettiva di finire il serie B spaventa i giocatori del Milan. Premesso che soltanto in caso di retrocessione per illecito sportivo un giocatore ha la possibilità di rescindere il proprio contratto vediamo quali potrebbero essere i rossoneri che in caso di serie cadetta scapperebbero da Milanello. Kakà. il giocatore che attualmente ha l’ingaggio più alto in casa Milan (4,8 milioni di euro) sarebbe il primo a partire. La destinazione è ormai nota: lo attende il Real Madrid. Ma non sarebbe il solo a fare le valigie: lo seguirebbero infatti i connazionali Dida, Amoroso e Cafu (quest’ultimo destinazione San Paolo, Marcio, invece attratto dall’idea di fare un’esperienza negli Emirati Arabi), ma anche Jankulovski, Vogel , Seedorf, Kalac. Anche Nesta il cui contratto scadrà nel 2008 e fino ad oggi non ha trovato un accordo con Galliani per il rinnovo, potrebbe interrompere il suo rapporto con il club di via Turati. Incerta invece la situazione di Pirlo e Gilardino. Chi invece è quasi certo di restare è il cosiddetto “zoccolo duro” del Milan, ovvero quei giocatori che hanno ormai deciso di chiudere la carriera in rossonero come Maldini, Costacurta, Inzaghi, Serginho e Fiori. Gattuso infine rischia di dover combattere con il seguente dissidio: soddisfare anzitempo il desiderio di giocare nel campionato inglese o sacrificarsi per la causa del Milan?

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My Italian is very bad, but i think this text is about players who's contract allows them to leave the club if Milan gets demoted. More or less, most of them will be allowed to leave, and most of them probably will.
Pirlo's and Gilardino's future will be uncertain. Maldini, Costacurta, Inzaghi, Serginho and Fiori will stay, while for Gattuso...he'll eather go in England, or sacrifice his future for Milan.

But i may be totally wrong with the translation, sorry !

Originally Posted by Tony 29

My Italian is very bad, but i think this text is about players who's contract allows them to leave the club if Milan gets demoted. More or less, most of them will be allowed to leave, and most of them probably will.
Pirlo's and Gilardino's future will be uncertain. Maldini, Costacurta, Inzaghi, Serginho and Fiori will stay, while for Gattuso...he'll eather go in England, or sacrifice his future for Milan.

But i may be totally wrong with the translation, sorry !

Don't be so modest, Tony, your Italian isn't so bad
In a case like this the players' contracts could be annuled and they could go anywhere they want.
The possibilities for the brasilians are Real M for Kaka', Sao Paolo for Cafu, UAE for Amosoro, etc.
And Nesta's contract is not renewed and he's still not found agreement with Galliani for a new one.

I really hope all this will not happen

Originally Posted by Kui

LOL! The chickens coming home to roost! I thought the lot said JUVE WERE GUILTY! That they must go down and that we are squeeky clean.
Some say we are only getting a points deduction but also said we would never be involved and STILL WRONG... because the prosecution has asked for us to be demoted. Gee! You guys are really good at calling plays!
Why dont you guys ask the expert? The one guy whose got it right all along. I really find it hillarious at how many late comer experts there suddenly are. Took you guys til page 80+ to get it right. And you lot are still wrong. LMAO!

Kui, I'm not sure exactly why it would seem to make you so happy if Milan were to be relegated. You call yourself an "expert." Is that it? Would you be happy to see Milan relegated just so you can somehow prove yourself to a bunch of people on a message board? Would that make you feel smart? Would that make you feel like a big man? I find that to be rather pathetic, actually. This is not something to be laughing or taunting about. This is a serious matter for Italian football and for Milan. If you truly had the club in your heart you would be hoping for the best outcome, not childishly taunting.

The truth is that none of us actually know who was "right" or "wrong" yet because none of us know the complete facts or what the outcome of the trial will be. All we have to rely on are media reports, which aren't always accurate and which sometimes portray things out of context. A couple of weeks ago the media reports were indicating that Milan would face no more than a points deduction. Now the prosecutor is asking for Milan to be relegated. Berlusconi has maintained all along that Milan is innocent and that the one phone call on which the evidence against Milan is apparently based was taken out of context. Who is right? We'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I hope and pray that Berlusconi is right. But from the way you are acting, I can only infer that you are hoping that the prosecutor is right and Milan is relegated so that you can prove yourself to all of us.