All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Kui

waiting for your post Charlie.....

I have nothing new to say. The more it goes, the more I believe that Milan are innocent in this, and the only reason Milan are charged is a political one.

The Milan lawyers this morning were quite convincing.

Juventus changing technique in their defence, could be because they saw no hope of escapism and their strategy to involve more clubs in the scandal, was going to work more against than in favour.

Financially it is better to Juventus to be relegated alone, as there will be only their players involved in the transfer market, so can get a better price.
While if the 4 clubs are relegated, there will be so much players wanted to leave their club that the prices will drastically drop. (again this is only my idea)

Originally Posted by Kui

And no words to Berlu or Galliani?

No, he wrote it for those 3.

For some reason, I feel like making this post in patois, but I will also include a translation...

All weh a gwaan, all di media dem a run aff dem likkle beak, mi still nuh feel seh Milan a get relegated...ah so di ting set..plus mi have wan nex wikkid conspiracy teory bout dis whole ting, weh mi nuh tink seh mi bus yet, but when mi av likkle more time, mi wi tell unno bout it...

Translation: With all thats taking place, with the media running their "mouths" I still dont think that Milan will get relegated...this is how the thing is set up...plus, I have another "nice" conspiracy theory about this whole thing, that I dont think I have posted yet, but when I have a little more time, I will tell you all about it...

Re: Tony´s response: (its ok if its a long post, that makes sense amigo!)

Good reply Tony, but again, the loss for Italian football would be temporary, in that we would lose some stars to Spain, and maybe England...and suffer in the UCL, but ultimately, on the rebound, we (ie the big clubs, Milan, Inter, and Juve when you get promoted) will be able to bring back the talent...plus, the sudden dearth of foreign stars in the game could well benefit some of the younger Italian players that they have stifled on the bench for so long...so I still see more positives (in the medium term) than negatives...

Still not worried, despite Kui´s seemingly absurd revelry at our current position...which I confess, despite reading both his posts carefully, is disheartening, worse as I see no meaningful apology, as his first attempt at same was quickly rebuffed by his comments further into his post...

But my "fight" is not with Kui, because at the end of the day, I simply love Milan, and love isnt logical, retaliatory, or cynical...and have no time to trade barbs over an issue so serious for the club, the players, the owner, and the fans.

I love Milan, I refuse to believe that we are involved in any match fixing, and I also refuse to believe that we will be relegated....am I being honest enough for Kui here? Have I made this statement enough for persons to accept it as my honest feeling?

Dunno..maybe Mr Thread Researcher (aka Kui) can see if I posted anything to the contrary...

I dont think Juve were even trying to involve any other club into this scandal. They're being pragmatic about it all. If it is poltical, I say it is political against all sides. There is so much vested/conflicting interest in this whole affair. I doubt anything right will come of this. What will come out is more careful or less careless match fixers.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

But my "fight" is not with Kui, because at the end of the day, I simply love Milan, and love isnt logical, retaliatory, or cynical...and have no time to trade barbs over an issue so serious for the club, the players, the owner, and the fans.

I love Milan, I refuse to believe that we are involved in any match fixing, and I also refuse to believe that we will be relegated....am I being honest enough for Kui here? Have I made this statement enough for persons to accept it as my honest feeling?

Dunno..maybe Mr Thread Researcher (aka Kui) can see if I posted anything to the contrary...

And my fight was never with you Warro. I disagree with what you're saying, but you've been on the level and unflinting. The lot has been waffling. Of course you did get a bit worried... wink...wink.

Tutti uniti
06/07/2006
Oggi è stato il giorno delle arringhe difensive dei legali del Milan. Per la prima volta nell’aula del processo sul calcio alla Caf si sono sentite parole come “dna”, “modestia” e “orgoglio”. Anche dalle parole dei legali del Milan, di Galliani e di Meani, traspare quel senso di appartenenza ai colori rossoneri che accomuna tutti i milanisti. Siano essi tifosi, dirigenti, o avvocati, il leit motiv non cambia. Come detto da Marco De Luca, legale di Adriano Galliani, noi “siamo gli stessi, quelli di sempre, sicuri della nostra innocenza. Nel dna del Milan sta il rispetto delle regole".
Il Milan non ha allontanato nessuno, piuttosto si è unito ancora di più. Niente conflitti intestini, denunce o richieste di danni. I nostri tesserati dormono nello stesso albergo, si presentano insieme nelle aule dell’Olimpico. Il nostro Presidente è al fianco del nostro amministratore delegato, i nostri dirigenti lottano anche e soprattutto per i tifosi. Tifosi che non intonano cori offensivi, ma si guardano negli occhi e si dicono che tutto questo non è giusto, che se la nostra difesa potrà essere ascoltata senza pregiudizio allora non si potrà non capire la nostra onestà. Perché non ci siamo presentati in uno studio televisivo senza contraddittorio, non abbiamo riempito i giornali di dichiarazioni: noi siamo andati a difenderci là dove ci hanno chiamati. Con il coraggio di chi sa di poter ribattere punto su punto con prove documentate. Ed è questo che ha fatto oggi l'avvocato De Luca. L’unica telefonata in un anno di intercettazioni che ha portato al deferimento dell’amministratore delegato del Milan è “priva di contenuti”. Nessuna approvazione, nessuna richiesta. Galliani viene informato della telefonata di Meani due giorni dopo. Anche Edda Gandossi, avvocato di Leonardo Meani, sostiene che "Parlare di sistema per il Milan non è solo inopportuno ma addirittura scorretto". La rabbia per i torti arbitrali non è stata studiata a tavolino o a cena con qualche rappresentante della federazione: è molto più semplicemente figlia del campionato. E questo è stato ed è sotto gli occhi di tutti. Non è un’intercettazione interpretabile, è un fatto di cronaca. Come lo è il fatto che Mazzei non designasse i guardalinee, l'ha confermato anche il suo avvocato Giuseppe Fonisto. Ecco perché il legale di Galliani conclude la sua arringa con queste parole: "Il legale della Juventus ha detto ieri che oggi il club bianconero è nuovo. Il Milan invece si presenta uguale a quello che era ieri. Lo dico con modestia e con orgoglio: siamo gli stessi, quelli di sempre, sicuri della nostra innocenza, ma deferenti di fronte al vostro giudizio. Saremo deferiti dalla vostra sentenza, ma siamo orgogliosi di essere il Milan".
United

Today was the day for our lawyers to speak out. For the first time the room devoted to the football trial at CAF's, words such as "Dna", "humble" and "proud" were to be finally heard. Within the words of Milan, Galliani and Meani's lawyers, clearly emerges that sence of beloning that ideally merges all us Rossoneri
Weather supporters, lawyers or board members, the leit motiv has never changed. As Adriano Galliani's lawyer Mr De Luca stated, "We are the same as alwyas, confident of our innocence. The respect of the rules is well within Milan's DNA"
Milan did not fire anybody, on the contrarary, we have united even further. No intestine conflicts, no sueing or damage claims.
All of us sleep in the same Hotel, all of us reach the Olimpico together-
Our President is flanking our CEO all along, our board members are fighting above all for all our supporters.
Supporters that have not screamed offensive slogans but on the contrarary look at each other straight in the eyes and say to each other that all this is just quite not fair, that if our defendent thesis may be heard without prejudice, then it will not be possible not to undestatd our honesty. Unlike others, we have not been protagonists in a tv studio within a talk show held withot contadictory opinions. We have not filled papers with statements, we have only defended ourselfs where called, with the courage of who is aware of being able to counter every single point with documented evidence.
This is precisely what Mr De Luca did today.
The only phone call in over a year of tapped conversations upon which Milan's CEO was charged for is "void of content". No endorsements, no requests, Mr Galliani is informed of Mr Meani's phone call two days later.
Leonardo Meani's lawyer Edda Gandossi stated: "Stating that a Milan system existed, is not only inapt but even unfair".
The rage for all the wrong ref calls we suffered was not purpously studied with somebody of the football federation: it's simply a fact.
This is under the eyes of everbody, it's not a interpetable tapped conversation, in breef a fact.
Another fact is that Mr Mazzei was not the linesmen designator, as confirmed by his lawyer Mr Giuseppe Fonisto.
All the above, is the reason why Mr Galliani's lawyer adressed his satement as follows:
"Juve lawyers, yesterday suggested that today the bianconeri are a new club. On the contrarary, Milan today is exactly the same as yesterday. I say this humbly and proud, deferent to your judgement. We have been charged with your declamatory judgement, nevertheless we are proud to be: IL MILAN"

Diavolo, if you were female, (even one with a mustache) I would kiss you for this post.

It brings tears of pride to my eyes...I feel a resurgence of pride in reading those words.

Thanks for making my day.

Kui: As ever, its all good! (except for Juve of course! muh haha ha ha ha ha ha )

Originally Posted by Kui

I dont think Juve were even trying to involve any other club into this scandal. They're being pragmatic about it all. If it is poltical, I say it is political against all sides. There is so much vested/conflicting interest in this whole affair. I doubt anything right will come of this. What will come out is more careful or less careless match fixers.

Even yesterday Giraudo's lawyer said that Inter should also be there. He was refering to a passport scandal.

Two or three days ago, Giraudo involved also Roma about the Passports case

And Moggi in the begining also accused Milan as they are the real power.

Kui, why if it is political it is by all sides?
What is the motive?

The only motive I can imagine and make sense is Berlusconi vs Borelli.

Originally Posted by Kui

BTW you from Chicago yeah?? Remember that tragic accident with all those college kids partying on a balcony and it collapsed????

Oh my God, someone else remembers this?? Small world indeed! One of the young people who died was named Katie and she was a graduate of the school I teach at.

Calciopoli: il Milan si difende e "scarica" Meani
a cura di Redazione 06/07/2006
L'avvocato De Luca, legale di Galliani: "Meani è un precario e l'accusa mossa a Galliani non sta nè in cielo nè in terra"

Oggi, nel processo davanti alla Caf, sono intervenuti gli avvocati difensori di Leonardo Meani, ex addetto agli arbitri del Milan, Adriano Galliani e della società rossonera. L'avvocato Marco De Luca, legale dell'amministratore delegato del Milan, nella sua arringa ha descritto il ruolo dell'ex addetto agli arbitri nella società rossonera. "Meani, al momento di quella telefonata, non è un dirigente del Milan, non è un dipendente, è un precario. Quasi non ha nemmeno un contratto, è in regime di prorogatio".

"Insussistenza clamorosa del fatto" con questa formula poi l'avvocato Marco De Luca, ha sottolineato come Galliani non avallò il comportamento tenuto da Meani, l'allora addetto agli arbitri del Milan che contattò, secondo la procura facendo pressioni, l'ex designatore dei guardalinee Gennaro Mazzei. "La condotta rilevante nell'atto d'accusa si riferisce solo al contenuto di quella conversazione telefonica, non c'è nessun altro elemento. Ma nella telefonata, se la si ascolta, non appare nessuna formula di approvazione o di avallo dalle parole di Galliani. Sta a sentire ma non reagisce, i suoni di intercalare non significano nulla e quel 'lo so bene' si riferisce al momento delicato della stagione, non all'opportunità della telefonata a Mazzei".

Leonardo Cantamessa, legale del Milan che si è limitato a dire: "Resta lo stupore per la richiesta della procura federale di una sanzione che non aveva e non ha riscontro nei fatti e in nessuno dei precedenti".

L'avvocato Edda Gandossi, legale di Meani, ha fatto invece leva sul tono goliradico delle telefonate. Il legale ha distinto i "rapporti istituzionali" che il suo assistito aveva con i dirigenti (fa i nomi di Bergamo Pairetto Galliani) e quelli amicali con i suoi ex colleghi della classe arbitrale. "C'è grande confidenza con gli arbitri, tra cui Racalbuto, Collina, Mazzei, per un rapporto creato negli anni da colleghi. Poi ci sono Puglisi e Babini, con cui Meani ha un'amicizia ventennale. Questi rapporti forse travalicano dei profili di opportunità nel linguaggio, nei toni, se ascoltati da terzi. Insomma possono sembrare poco belli, ma sono discorsi tra addetti ai lavori".

ca anyone translate this?

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Even yesterday Giraudo's lawyer said that Inter should also be there. He was refering to a passport scandal.

Two or three days ago, Giraudo involved also Roma about the Passports case

And Moggi in the begining also accused Milan as they are the real power.

Kui, why if it is political it is by all sides?
What is the motive?

The only motive I can imagine and make sense is Berlusconi vs Borelli.

It could be that Juve ex officials are trying to involve other clubs into this, but what doesn't makes sence to me ( maybe it's because i don't know the sportive law), is why would involving others into it, help Moggi and Giraudo ?

I mean, if i do something bad i should be punished, no matter if i'm the only one who did it, or other people were also doing it.
I don't get what's there for Moggi, Giraudo or Juve as a club, if they involve other parties into this.

Logically, if more people are involved into it, then maybe instead of me taking the whole punishment, it will be shared among everybody. But even if this is how justice is functioning, i think it's stupid and not fair at all !
Why should my punishment be smaller if others were also doing the bad things i did ?
I may be naive and i'm certanly not into law, but it sounds unfair!

The funny thing is also that more than 40% Tele Piú subscribers are ACM and Juve fans. If they are relegated, all the TV stations (not just Italian but all around the world) will drastically lower their offer for broadcasting rights.
And as the money from the broadcasting is the main income part in the Seria A budget, it might cause a financial colapse and bankrupt of the league.
Also a lot of sponsors might lower their support or exit totaly from Seria A when more than 40% people who used to watch it will be watching Serie B instead.
That should bring the league very very difficult times...
I guess everybody knows that so they will be very patient in taking drastical decissions...

MaJi tz, I think its something to do with Galliani´s lawyer saying that the conversations between Meani and whomever, that were tapped, reveal, or prove nothing out of the ordinary, ie he was simply having a conversation with a friend (who happened to be a referee official) about some bad calls that he felt negatively impacted Milan..

There also seems to be an attempt to distance Galliani from Meani...or at least to paint Galliani in as "rosy" a picture as possible...

Now, if this is the basis on which we are being hauled into court, then it really seems to be a "political" thing...u kno, lets see how we can get Berlu...by any and all means necessary...

I do await better translations though, for further clarification...

Inter will be the only Italian team never to have been in Serie B after this, assuming Juve goes down. The 1st time the 'Italian Derby' won't be played.

This from Click here for entire article yahoo sports, basically states:

Marco De Luca, a lawyer for Adriano Galliani, vice-president of Milan, conceded that his client should have denounced what he knew of irregularities, which emerged in telephone comments to Galliani by former club official Leonard Meani.

Intercepted telephone conversations revealed Meani complaining to the official in charge of assigning linesman to Serie A matches about a linesman he selected after Milan lost to Siena in April 2005.

"There is not a single fact in the world that proves Galliani approved of Meani's conduct," De Luca said.

Omission was not an offence, he continued, before insisting on the club's honesty as well as its glorious history.

"AC Milan has brought this federation, of which you (the judges) are also a part, many, many trophies. We will be respectful of your decisions. But we are proud to be Milan," he declared to the hearing.

Milan's owner is ex-prime minister Silvio Berlusconi who has said the investigation is part of a campaign against him.