All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

So It is ruperto who said that? but he is just the head of the judge committe, right? I don't think he is in the place to make such a decision. Doesn't it take the figc and the house (both the senate house and the lower one) to hand out a amnesty?

If it is Rossi who said this, I would have been much happier...

and it is also from calciomercato:

Il ministro delle politiche sportive, Giovanna Melandri, torna a parlare dello scandalo calcio. "Non c'è bisogno né di amnistia né di vendette - ha dichiarato il ministro - ma di trasparenza, giustizia e nuove regole". Quanto alla commistione con i successi dell'Italia al Mondiale, la Melandri ha aggiunto: "Sono sicura che il calcio italiano sarà in grado di uscire a testa alta dalla bufera che lo ha investito. Il cammino straordinario della Nazionale ci riempie di gioia ed orgoglio, ma teniamo separati i due ambiti".

and I have read a couple of head figuers in the goverment going against the idea of amnesty. So even a motion for amnesty is moved to the house, how much chance could it be passed?

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Hmmm, i guess i'll be the one who'll answer your question !

Mauro Tassotti is another one who played with Milan in Serie B.
After Milan got demoted , Mauro Tassotti played his first season in Milan in Serie B. He also didn't leave Milan in 1982/1983 ( after Milan got relegated because they won the last place in Serie A...this time they weren't demoted because of some scandal, but they got relegated because the team was weak).
He continued playing for AC Milan until 1997. He was very important defender who gave a lot for the club and is a part of Milan's success in late 80's and early 90's, and rightfully he's concidered to be a Milan legend !

Another player who stayed with Milan after the demotion , was Aldo Maldera. He was one of the most important players in 1970's,( he was left defender/midfielder) but his last season for Milan was exactly the one in serie B in 1980/81, when he played in 27 matches, and scored 3 goals !

The others, such as goalkeeper Albertoni, defenders Collovati, Buriani and Bet,
Midfielders: De Vecchi, Novelino ( sampdoria coach????) and Antonelli,
and attackers :Chiodi and Bignon....they all left the team after the demotion.

So basically, only Baresi and Maldera stayed with Milan, while Tassotti joined Milan in serie B.

funny, you're mentioning Enrico Albertosi...he was involved deeply in the calcionero affair so he actually had to leave...i guess he was suspended for some time

Gattuso Wants To Stay With Milan

Italy star Gennaro Gattuson has vowed to stay with AC Milan and wants to finish his career with the Italian giants, who are involved in the Serie A match-fixing scandal.

Milan could be relegated to Serie B as a result of the crisis, but will be lifted by Gattuso's pledge to stay with the club in the wake of speculation that Manchester United are keen on the tough midfielder.

"I am certain that I will remain at AC Milan and that I will play in Serie A next season," said Gattuso.

"If this doesn't happen, then I will talk to the club and hope to remain and finish my career at Milan."

He added: "The press can write whatever they want.

"At this point, I cannot think of another club wanting me or anything else but Sunday's final.

"This game is bigger than myself, I have never expected to be able to play a World Cup final, so all my energy is directed at this."

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Tony start partying!!!!!!!!!! lol

For me if it happens will be a very dark day
I prefer Milan in Serie B (IFFFFFFF guilty) that a political decision and everything goes under the carpet!!!!

Ruperto gave a very important insurance. Amnesty? Need to be earned before it is proposed.

Charlie, would you like to tell me what exactly is said in the text, and why should i be partying ? I understood most of the text, but not all of it, ( plus, i'm a litlle slow in connecting X and Y things ), so i don't see the reason for party.

Thanx !

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

I just posted the whole paragraph in Italian

soarce calciomercato.com.

no, I was asking WRT what tony said: the prosecutor recently took back his previous statement about "Moggi system" and described it as "never existed", I just found it nowhere.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Charlie, would you like to tell me what exactly is said in the text, and why should i be partying ? I understood most of the text, but not all of it, ( plus, i'm a litlle slow in connecting X and Y things ), so i don't see the reason for party.

Thanx !

I was just kidding with the word partying.
I can imagine how you are feeling in these times so I wanted also to boost your hopes, as the word "AMNESTY" is coming stronger everyday.

Even Mastella (minister of justice) wrote an article on a local newspaper.

Reperto said that first Italy has to win the world cup before we start considering an Amnesty.

And Amnesty is a political and not a juridical act, and comes only when justice has finished its coarse.

Originally Posted by marine

no, I was asking WRT what tony said: the prosecutor recently took back his previous statement about "Moggi system" and described it as "never existed", I just found it nowhere.

It is here.
And not exactly took back his previous statement, but pointed up that in all the acts he wrote, never refered to Moggi system, Organisation or other terms of this kind.

10.15 Il procuratore federale Stefano Palazzi ha precisato dopo che il legale di Mazzini, Mario Rocchi, aveva parlato di 'cupola moggiana': "In tutti gli atti della procura non si è mai fatto riferimento a 'cupola', 'organizzazione' o termini di questo genere".

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

It is here.
And not exactly took back his previous statement, but pointed up that in all the acts he wrote, never refered to Moggi system, Organisation or other terms of this kind.

Thx buddy. And that is what I meant. An organizational cheating system (or maybe multiple systems) is way worse than individual (even voluntary) misconduct carriied out by clubs/officials. So in the way I look at it, this is already a much better situation. If my memory was right, Borrelli has described the whole thing as "clubs *systematically* fixed games by meeting designators before matches, getting favourable referees and assistants, and then obtaining desired results." which is no way forgivable.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

I was just kidding with the word partying.
I can imagine how you are feeling in these times so I wanted also to boost your hopes, as the word "AMNESTY" is coming stronger everyday.

Even Mastella (minister of justice) wrote an article on a local newspaper.

Reperto said that first Italy has to win the world cup before we start considering an Amnesty.

And Amnesty is a political and not a juridical act, and comes only when justice has finished its coarse.

Yep, correct. You have to be convicted first so you can get an amnesty afterwards. ( and Italy has to win, also)

It really is a political act, but again, if they really give amnesty for all the clubs involved ( and it is a political act)...why will Milan be amnested if , as stated many times here, Milan got in the scandal because of political reasons ?
I know i didn't express myself very good, but i hope you understand my question Charlie ?!!!

Originally Posted by marine

"clubs *systematically* fixed games by meeting designators before matches, getting favourable referees and assistants, and then obtaining desired results." which is no way forgivable.

Absolutely.
From the begining of this topic, i'm supporting the theory that Juventus ( by this i don't mean the coach, the players, the fans, and many of the employees) was "chating" with the refs before the matches.
Now, in most of the matches (90% IMO) Juve was easily beating it's opponents, so there was never a need for the referee ( or linesman) to help Juventus...... but even in these 90% matches, it is a huge mistake by Moggi and co. to talk with these officials at first place.
In the other 10% of the matches, the refs were eather helping Juve, were eather "helpless in trying to help them", or the refs were fair.

I think that this was ( still is actually) something most of you were saying, and you agreed with me on this one.

But the part where we disagree is the part where i was saying that it wasn't only Juve that was doing this, but all the other big clubs were doing it.
We never know when did everything start, so your argument that Milan didn't win the Scudetto, so Milan isn't involved, can pass when talking about the last 2 years, but not if all these things started 10, 15, 20 or 60 years ago.

Also, besides Milan and Inter fans who were always complaining about Juve+referees affairs, why didn't Berlusconi and Moratti ever accuse Moggi ?
This is a question that Juve fans ask very often, but you have to admit that it's a logical question.
I refuse to believe that Berlusconi wasn't aware of the Moggi system, and that he didn't know how to destroy that system and put Moggi in jail.
Why did Italy have to wait for Berlusconi to fall, and start the trials ?
It all makes a man think that Berlusconi knew everything and that he was also involved in it.

But this are all speculations and stories that will make us fans "fight" in present day and future.
The question is what should Italy do to stop this ?
For very selfish reason, many Milan fans will say that Juve to B will be justice and that's what should be done so the bad things will stop. Inter fans are saying everywhere how JuBe and Bilan in serie C & B is justice and it's the right thing to do so the Calcio will start from the begining, cleaned from the dirt.
But will this REALLY help cleaning the dirt, or it will only be a shortest term solution ?
Juve may be back the next year and do the things that Moggi did previously. They can do that for another 30 years...and what was the purpose of the punishment ?

The verdict should be given by UEFA imo, and it should be very harsh punishment. All Italian clubs out of Europe for the next 3-5 years, and if the same things happen again in the future, then tell them that the punishment will rise to 10 years.
I know this will never happen, but only something like this will make the Italians ( not Juve, all the Italians) to think twice before they try to do something ala Moggi !

Well, De Santis has defended himself by saying that talking with coaches/offcials in big club and taking their opions, before designating refs, has been a *custom* carried out for years. (he put his finger to names like Sacchi, which, if he meant the coach in Milan rather than the manager in Parma, would bring us back to early 90s or even late 80s, and Faccheti, Capello and etc.)

To be honest I believe him on this one. There must have been a hidden system (well, maybe I use the phrase "the way people do things" would be better) in practise for years, and Moggi happened to use his *talent* and resource to make the best out of it, possibly plus the manipulation of players and other small clubs with his GEA and etc. Therefore if the custom is not cleaned, I can still see another Mr. Moggi coming out of it, not quite sure in whose service though.

I think this is outside of UEFA´s juristiction Tony...they cannot interfere in the internal matters of their member nations Federations, except, as in the case with Greece, the country itself, or Federation does something in contravention of Fifa´s statutes.

And I cannot see them punishing all the other Italian clubs because of the actions of a few...

What I am smiling to myself about, is the whole issue of "amnesty" that is creeping into the dialogue surrounding the scandal...again..the more things change, the more they remain the same...

Well, as for sanction of european competitions, if I am not mistaken, it is the British gov that put forward the motion and UEFA approved, not that UEFA initiated it. Therefore I don't think they can slam the door of italian clubs if figc does not ask for it.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Yep, correct. You have to be convicted first so you can get an amnesty afterwards. ( and Italy has to win, also)

It really is a political act, but again, if they really give amnesty for all the clubs involved ( and it is a political act)...why will Milan be amnested if , as stated many times here, Milan got in the scandal because of political reasons ?
I know i didn't express myself very good, but i hope you understand my question Charlie ?!!!

There is nothing strange in it,
The political benefits of Milan's accusation are not were Milan as a club are going to play next season, but to put Berlusconi in a bad political situation.

So IFFFFFF Milan are found guilty and are relegated to serie B, with or without Amnesty the political benefits are reached, and Berlusconi will carry the image of a corrupt club.