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Old 08-12-2009, 19:40   #76
Samaldinho
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Now, I understand that several players were not feeling well, but why would Leonardo play them anyways?

If Ambro and Kaladze were feeling sick, then why not draft in Favalli and Flamini? I can understand playing Dinho, as that is our only option for that side with Abate playing RB.

It doesn't matter, I just hope that Flamini can play more often, especially when its clear that many of our players are battling the flu.

Its not that Kaladze "didn't play that bad," as much as what he does to the other players. They have to recover for him, they have compensate for him, and his lack of mobility and his lack of attacking drive hurts our system's effectiveness. How many times have Nesta and Thiago Silva taken the ball and strode forward with it? Kaladze?
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Old 08-12-2009, 20:36   #77
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I'll have to catch a replay of this match later because I missed the second half. It's great that we qualified, albeit second in the group. I saw some really comical defending on our part in the first half so that really needs to be rectified.

What's amazing though is Bordeaux, who in their group of death, managed to pull of 5 victories and a draw leaving them with the best record of all the teams, in perhaps the hardest group. Kudos to them (and Gourcuff naturally )
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Old 08-12-2009, 21:17   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo View Post

Michael Owen with a hat-trick, never saw that coming.
more interesting fact from that game is that, the back 4 was of Park -- Fletcher--- Carrick --- Evra... I didnt know Carrick could be soOo versatile to play as a CB !

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Old 08-12-2009, 21:58   #79
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Pato was invisible all game...he's the one that should have been subbed, not Borri. Zurich didnt attack all 2nd half...rightfully so after that penalty, just couldn't crack their shell.
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Old 08-12-2009, 22:22   #80
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Edin scored against Man U, he did so in the game at Old Traford too. Nice one Edoooooooooooo
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Old 09-12-2009, 00:49   #81
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Poor game. We were absolutely terrible. Pirlo and Ambrosini were the absolute worst today. They just didn't have their heads in the game. They were like snails on the field dragging themselves around. It was obvious that when Flamini came on we were more compact in there. He covered much more ground and he did it much faster then Ambrosini. Ambro simply had a poor poor game. He looked like the old Ambro of recent years.....and that's not good. BUT, he's been excelent lately so I'll lay off.

Seedorf was good at times and then bad at times. The thing is that Seedorf needs to work back quicker and stay close to Ambro and Pirlo. These 3 have to be very compact in defense and they weren't today. Actually, they are not many times in other games as well which is why our defence looks so 'uncovered at times. But that's another discussion for another day.

As for today....I won't stick too much to it and I'll just leave it at that......poor perfermance.

About the qualification.....I dissagree that we only qualified because of Marseille's inability to beat Madrid, or thanks to Madrid (however you want to put it). On the day....yes. That result helped, but the bottom line is that we quialified because we got more points then Maresille and Zurich over the course of 6 games. And that's the fact. The fact is also that in our head-to-head we were BETTER then both Marseille and R.Madrid. So I would say that we definitely deserved to go through. People can say Zurich was unlucky not to win again, or Marseille was unlucky not to beat us in Milano......BUT oh well. Football is played for goals(facts) and not 'could have beens'. If we are going to start with the 'could have beens' then we should have taken 6 points against Madrid because we had a perfectly legal goal disallowed. So everyone gets lucky, and unlucky for that matter. The important thing is that we are through and we deserve to be through.

On the other games....I am really disapointed that Juventus is out. I was looking forward to the possiblity of Serie A being the only league with 4 representatives in the knock-out stages. It was also going to enormously help towards pulling away from Bundesliga in the ratings and keeping things as they are for at least 3-4 more years. Chances are that Serie A will still stay ahead due to Wolfsburng's inability to qualify (possibly/hopefully Stuttgart as well tomorow will go out) but the cution of the lead would have been better. I also hope Inter make it through tomorrow. They don't bother me in Europe (as long as they don't win it ). We can't face them anyway in the next round no matter what.....and even if we do face them later on, it would feel so good to beat them and send them home.

Side note: what a terrible terrible performance by Diego and Melo. They were both horrible. Something that I've noticed with Melo (not just today but for in many other games as well), he can't take care of the ball if under pressure. He often makes mistakes and gives a bad pass or simply loses the ball. Bayern pushed up in the midfield and gave no time to Juve's midfielders on the ball. These are the type of situations where you need that player in the middle that will take care of the ball for you. And Melo still isn't that player for Juve, yet. It might be a useful piece of info when we play them in a month or so.
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:26   #82
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I would not worry much about who Milan will play next round as it is in late Feb and a lot can happen till then, mainly injuries and forms.
I would only worry if guys like Borri, Nesta, T. Silva, Pato, Dinho, Becks, Hunter, and Pirlo are out, then I will be worry. Actually, as long as Nesta and T.Silva are playing, I would not worry much.
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Old 09-12-2009, 02:47   #83
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i don't understand all the harsh criticism...
i think the major problem was in midfield (ambro-pirlo) they were running us all over in the 1st half....but most importantly credit to Zurich, i thought they played unbelievably well, they did all the right decisions and did not miss a pass in the 1st half.
Seems Ambro & R80 were not feeling well...i could tell that on Ambro (he was never in the game and obviously Leo should have opted for Flamini from the begining) but i was surprised to know that about R80...i know there was doubt on his fitness before the match but i thought that the energy he played with throughtout the match was impressive...maybe not much end product but u can see there was always 2 players on him and he wanted to fight hard...i loved his spirit in this match.

again, it was not that awful as a team performance from us, Zurich just played incredibly well...anyway we are through and we definitely deserve it.
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:31   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nefremo View Post

Side note: what a terrible terrible performance by Diego and Melo. They were both horrible. Something that I've noticed with Melo (not just today but for in many other games as well), he can't take care of the ball if under pressure. He often makes mistakes and gives a bad pass or simply loses the ball. Bayern pushed up in the midfield and gave no time to Juve's midfielders on the ball. These are the type of situations where you need that player in the middle that will take care of the ball for you. And Melo still isn't that player for Juve, yet. It might be a useful piece of info when we play them in a month or so.
They need a slowdorf in the middle...
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:14   #85
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That's what Seedorf is good at. Slow, but keep the ball like he has glued on it.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:43   #86
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players' grades in the game with Zürich
http://www.voteplayers.com/Matches/F...2009-6335.aspx
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:52   #87
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We have to thank Real Madrid for qualifying. If they were *******s and let Marseille beat them, we would be out.

Leonardo must ROTATE. Damn this is the word I use most often in this forum.

It's clear that our first 11 cannot play two games a week. We could easily lose against Real and Marseille at home and I bet we wouldn't score against Zurich without penalty. We had to admit we had MUCH luck qualifying for the last 16.

Some may say that we do not have squad to rotate. I agree at some point. But what about Flamini? He's almost as good as Ambrosini, even better in some segments (can run more, better shooter, FASTER...). Then I've heard Antonini played great (I didn't watch the game), why he doesn't get more space? Why Borriello must play every single game and be substituted with 10 minutes to go, even if he sucks for 80 minutes? We have TWO great strikers, world-class on their day and we don't use them!

Leonardo must use all the players at his disposal, at least till January. I'm sure that Jankulovski, for example, could do very well at Ronaldinho's place, with some formation altering, at least against weaker opposition, just like Vargas is doing at Fiorentina. I mentioned Vargas intentionally, because he is very similar to Jankulovski, not good in defense, and his great long shot ability was limited when he played in defense. Don't forget that Jankulovski is great shooter from distance, but he isn't capable to show it when he plays at left back. Anyway, Leonardo uses Abate on the other side, so I don't see any problems using Janku on the left sometimes.

Anyway, we must get 3 or 4 covers in January if we want to play on two fronts. If not, then Leonardo will have to rest his best players before CL matches, just like Capello did in his time, and that way we'd have to say goodbye to Scudetto.

In my opinion, it's better to concentrate just on CL, without compromise. With this squad we cannot play on two fronts, and I'm afraid that we will come short at both in the end. More so, because Juve is out of CL, they can now concentrate on Serie A and Inter, if they pass to the round of 16, they will not get further from round of 8.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:57   #88
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Real Madrid had to play a decent game becouse if they lost 3-0, wich is posible with a B-team they couldve been out... So I think it is only normal they did their job.

This was one terrible game, but lets look on the bright side, we always have problems with 'small' teams, but after the first round we wont draw teams like that anymore. So think positive, we'll only get teams a la real madrid and marseille, and we did a good job against them no?

Antonini was our best player last night IMO, also Flamini was decent coming from the bench! Pato was extremely poor
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Old 09-12-2009, 17:06   #89
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Teams ending at the first place of their group and that we can face:
Bordeaux, Manchester, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Sevilla

Teams ending first that we can't face;
Real Madrid, Fiorentina (well done, the only Italian team to have played all their games with heart without calculating)

Teams ending second of their group:
Milan, Inter, Lyon, Bayern, Stuttgart, CSKA, Olympiakos, Porto

So we are sure to play against a big team ... I'd like to face Arsenal to get a kind of revenge of two years ago, but Sevilla is probably the "worst" team (so the best opponent to face).

Some people will probably want us to face Bordeaux (for Gourcuff) or Chelsea (for Ancelotti) ...

Oh, and I don't know why, but I feel that Fiorentina will get Bayern and Inter will have to play against Madrid ...
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Old 09-12-2009, 17:19   #90
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from those teams, i think the only team that would beat us for sure, like for 1000% is barca..it wouldnt even be necessary to play the games... other than them I think Milan could challenge any of the other teams if we fill in the missing holes in the team this january..

well done to inter, they finally put in a great performance albeit against CL debutants at home in a must-win game. Balotelli was phenomenal. Absolutely fantastic. I'm also surprised to see Fiorentina win that game, to be fair Liverpool were trying to win the game and had all their stars playing (including gerrard, torres) but I am surprised as to why their fans were boo'ing Aquilani.

I hope La Viola get Stuttgart and I have a feeling (and hope) we are getting Man Utd. Inter will get owned vs Arsenal. I could see Bordeaux making it to the semis.
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