Banter 2009/2010

[Revolver]

I don't know about CSKA goal, but dribbling through two defenders, TWICE, and clinical finish is a great goal indeed.

About Gattuso, I laugh at some of these comments. So, it seems that Gattuso was just grit and determination, and nothing else. How the hell he became the best DM in the world for 6 or 7 years when we were the best team around?! Timing, positioning, ABSOLUTELY world-class man-marking, tacking, anything?! You see, Gattuso marked the great Ronaldinho 4 times, THAT Ronaldinho who made class defenders, not midfielders, looking laughable, and he marked him excellent, almost without fouling him. And we could witness what THIS Ronaldinho was doing to the proclaimed best DM in the world, Cambiasso in last year's encounter.

Please, don't fool yourself, when in full fitness, Gattuso is still among 2-3 best DMs in the world, if not the best.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by mrki

Geo Tav:

Read my post again. I didnt say we need to play 3 DM's, as that is completely wrong solution and that stupid solution gave us milion problems when Carlo was Milan's coach.

I said we can play Pirlo in Seedorf's position ( what he plays in Azzuri ). That position is a CM position with freedom to play verticall and roam left and right IN FRONT of the Dm's behind him. Or, that is the position that Seedorf plays now. In Ancelotti's sistem Pirlo played behind 2 DM's and played 10m from CB's etc. Then in front of 2 DM's Kaka' played alone etc.

But Pirlo has the capacity to defend in 3 man line more then Seedorf does now. As we could see in Lazio - Milan game when Leo did exactly that in last 10-15 min. of the game.

I never said we cant sell Seedorf, or Pirlo, or anyone. In fact I said we need to sell Seedorf this summer, and I also wanted to sell Pirlo ( before Kaka' was sold, not after. I also explained why I wanted Pirlo to stay after Kaka' was sold etc. ). But I do say that we cant sell Gattuso! Gattuso is a qorld class DM who cant be found easely. And Milan will not invest 25mln to buy another class DM, they will just buy some played that can be good in Lazio or Genova and say we are going into a new era, bla, bla...

About Seedorf: If you think that this football that he plays now is enough then well...there is no hope that we can agree.

If the situation has come to the point that San Siro public is making banner against his walking on the pitch and are jeering hiim in a CL game at the S.S., then, really, something is wrong with the way he plays.

The fact that Leo, Galliani and papers are saying how good he is does not change the fact that this man created problems for our midfield with his lack of movement. 2,3 great and seriously done games in 15 are not enough! Those times are gone in football.

Even Ronaldinho and Pato do more in defence in some phases of the game, which is absurd.

So no, I dont agree with your post and your commenting of my post. Not a strange thing

To conclude:

--------Pirlo----
-Gattuso--Ambrosini- ( Carletto )

and

---Gattuso--Flamini--
---------Pirlo---

Its not the same and its not even close to be the same. Specially coz the sistem is now 4-3-3. Or 4-2-4 is See plays/walks...

P.S.

Have you people seen new interwiew with Carletto about his love for Inter?

Yup, Gattuso is a world class DM, no doubt, but I don't think we need a replacement for him. Since I consider Max and Flamini world class as well, and two WC players for one position is as much depth as we should have.

Besides, if we have any resources, surely it should go to a full back. Don't forget how Oddo was SKINNED by Niang again and again against Marseille. He's had a decent couple of months, but he really isn't good enough for us, and neither is Abate or Jankulovski. And it's a shame because Pato would be so much better with proper support from a full back.

About Seedorf, I agree, he's hit and miss. I'm looking forward to Beckham coming, because imo he'll be able to play in all positions(except Max's) in our midfield.

EDIT: Btw, as I said, totally agree that Gattuso was one of the best. Don't forget how he made fun of Cristiano Ronaldo the times we played Man Utd. But about Ronaldinho, I remember him being really dominant against us, the 4 times we playe Barca in the last couple of years. The crazy assist to Guily, and that crazy goal he scored. But well, it was Ronaldinho, not gonna hold it against anyone, cause he was imo the best.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by Stitch

Sorry but this goal is not "overrated" by any means dribbled through 4 defenders (2x2), then a very accurate shot from almost dead-angle (consider GK's position) into the far end of the net...not a lot of players these days can do that

The same was his finishing against CSKA...

[LebRN]

Originally Posted by mrki

Geo Tav:

Read my post again. I didnt say we need to play 3 DM's, as that is completely wrong solution and that stupid solution gave us milion problems when Carlo was Milan's coach.

I said we can play Pirlo in Seedorf's position ( what he plays in Azzuri ). That position is a CM position with freedom to play verticall and roam left and right IN FRONT of the Dm's behind him. Or, that is the position that Seedorf plays now. In Ancelotti's sistem Pirlo played behind 2 DM's and played 10m from CB's etc. Then in front of 2 DM's Kaka' played alone etc.

But Pirlo has the capacity to defend in 3 man line more then Seedorf does now. As we could see in Lazio - Milan game when Leo did exactly that in last 10-15 min. of the game.

I never said we cant sell Seedorf, or Pirlo, or anyone. In fact I said we need to sell Seedorf this summer, and I also wanted to sell Pirlo ( before Kaka' was sold, not after. I also explained why I wanted Pirlo to stay after Kaka' was sold etc. ). But I do say that we cant sell Gattuso! Gattuso is a qorld class DM who cant be found easely. And Milan will not invest 25mln to buy another class DM, they will just buy some played that can be good in Lazio or Genova and say we are going into a new era, bla, bla...

About Seedorf: If you think that this football that he plays now is enough then well...there is no hope that we can agree.

If the situation has come to the point that San Siro public is making banner against his walking on the pitch and are jeering hiim in a CL game at the S.S., then, really, something is wrong with the way he plays.

The fact that Leo, Galliani and papers are saying how good he is does not change the fact that this man created problems for our midfield with his lack of movement. 2,3 great and seriously done games in 15 are not enough! Those times are gone in football.

Even Ronaldinho and Pato do more in defence in some phases of the game, which is absurd.

So no, I dont agree with your post and your commenting of my post. Not a strange thing

To conclude:

--------Pirlo----
-Gattuso--Ambrosini- ( Carletto )

and

---Gattuso--Flamini--
---------Pirlo---

Its not the same and its not even close to be the same. Specially coz the sistem is now 4-3-3. Or 4-2-4 is See plays/walks...

P.S.

Have you people seen new interwiew with Carletto about his love for Inter?

everybody is quoting mrki here...so it's my turn... :P

i totally agree on all that u have said up there regarding all our midfielders.
after all these years i still can't understand how one player can be sooo good in one match and then sooo terrible in the next ....Seedorf is the most inconsistent player i have ever seen and although this year he has probably been showing a lot more consistency than the last few years, it still is not enough

so i am totally with dropping Seedorf to the bench and playing Pirlo instead with 2 DM behind in which case i am sure all 3 (Ambro-Flamini-Gattuso) will have enough play time for all to be happy and all playing in their best roles.

as for selling players, i'm not sure we could get a lot of cash for Seedorf and i definitely don't think we will get 20Mio for Gattuso...
so who i think should be sold are Kaladze, Jankulovski, Oddo, & Dida/Abbiati (i know many here might object on the last 2/3, but i still think they are no where near AC Milan level) and maybe Huntelaar if he is given a chance and fails to make an impact or if he isn't in Leo's plans anyway....just cash on him

again we probably won't get a lot of money from those players either (except Huntelaar) but whatever we get we can invest in one top quality fullback (i dream of Philipp Lahm)....the fullback will replace Oddo, Bonera-Albertazzi can replace Kaladze and Jankulovski doesn't need to be replaced because he's not used anyway...

and one more thought...Candreva

[Xudong]

On Pirlo vs. Seedorf:
Pirlo won't play better in Seedorf's position as AM. Pirlo loses ball easily (or more easily), while Seedorf is fantastic in holding the ball to his feet. Pirlo is a rather static player and needs space (ironic, huh?), so a deeper role fits him better, making his passes more dangerous. Seedorf is also static (actually, lazy), but his physicality (actually, his huge buttock) helps a lot. My opinion: Pirlo can play as AM, but Seedorf is a more natural candidate, and he is a better shooter. I know that some might not agree, but I personally think Seedorf is a much better shooter than Pirlo, even in freekicks. Motivation wise, they are equally poor unfortunately.

On Gattuso vs. Ambrosini:
I always like Gattuso's passion, but sometimes (and many times) that becomes trouble, not just for himself, but for the team. We all remember he lost his head and threw the captain armband in the derby, but what I hated more is the penalty and his expulsion. We weren't any inferior to Inter, but after that, Inter became unstoppable (in the league). It is all about morale. Remember how we won Scudetto 1999? As a captain, Gattuso had no excuse for any of that, even though one could always argue it was due to Leonardo's inexperience or Seedorf's laziness, but still. When Maldini was around, he had to firmly scold Gattuso in many occasions just to calm him down. Between Gattuso and Ambrosini, I have always liked the latter more, not just because that Ambrosini has been with us longer, or that he is a better shooter and header than Gattuso, but that he always puts the team above himself. For many years, he was a regular bench warmer at Milan while Juventus and Real Madrid both tried to lure him away and promised him with a starting place. He didn't leave; he didn't make a scene; either did he moan or whine about it. Gattuso has to come out and claim that he deserves a starting place, and I think the difference between him and Ambrosini is obvious.

On the number of DMs:
I am not here to argue on a tactic level, but let me point an interesting observation that many Milan fans (not just here in MM) start to complain about the inbalance of our team and insist that we should use two DMs, while in the past many years, Ancelotti was constantly under attack for the exact same reason of using two DMs. Let's just say that different trainers have different philosophies, and let's just agree that there is a tradeoff between those two choices.

On January transfers:
I don’t mind seeing Gattuso leaving in January if he insists. It would be a loss for Milan as we could use him whether as a backup or a starter, but it would be fair. After all, he has sweated blood for Milan in the past years, and if all he wants is to leave Milan to secure his WC dream, then we should let him go. I am strongly against selling Pippo or Pirlo in January. Who can we replace them? Not to forget: the new players we get should not have played CL before, and on top of that, we could only register three new players in February, so even if you change the whole squad and you could use all of them for Serie A, but it does not work like that in the CL!

[Xudong]

Originally Posted by Stitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAlJ6N5b5-0

Dzeko goes through two Werder defenders (dribbles each one - two times!) and scores a wonderful goal!


Man I wish so much we sign him.

I still hope that he could come in the next summer. I still believe that he will be the next big thing, van Basten-big (of course many might disagree ).

[LebRN]

Originally Posted by Xudong

On Pirlo vs. Seedorf:
Pirlo won't play better in Seedorf's position as AM. Pirlo loses ball easily (or more easily), while Seedorf is fantastic in holding the ball to his feet. Pirlo is a rather static player and needs space (ironic, huh?), so a deeper role fits him better, making his passes more dangerous. Seedorf is also static (actually, lazy), but his physicality (actually, his huge buttock) helps a lot. My opinion: Pirlo can play as AM, but Seedorf is a more natural candidate, and he is a better shooter. I know that some might not agree, but I personally think Seedorf is a much better shooter than Pirlo, even in freekicks. Motivation wise, they are equally poor unfortunately.

i also agree that Seedorf is a better shooter...mostly power-wise...BUT he does not use it as often as he should
and yes he probably can protect the ball better than Pirlo due to his stronger physique...BUT then what? he gives a back pass!!!
He is supposed to be playing in an attacking midfielder role which means he should play quick and go forward not slow the game and search for the back pass (which are his specialty unfortunately)...
and i think giving Pirlo a new role might motivate the guy
and no matter what anyone says, i think he is very generous in his efforts to run all over the field...unfortunately he is just not fast enough :S

[LebRN]

Originally Posted by Stitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAlJ6N5b5-0

Dzeko goes through two Werder defenders (dribbles each one - two times!) and scores a wonderful goal!


Man I wish so much we sign him.

hitmannq is right...that defence is pathetic....
but still, he's a very good player, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lYyKlg02Tk

[pirlofanusa]

did you see the shot Pirlo had against Madrid? that was simply world class. Pirlo and Seedorf should be rotated at the upper AM position to prevent them from tiring. Pirlo is the key.

[Aficio]

The problem is: If Pirlo plays CM (or CAM) role, then between him and Seedorf, who is starter in important match?

They have the same status, both came from Inter to Milan and enjoy being the favourite.

[Xudong]

Originally Posted by pirlofanusa

did you see the shot Pirlo had against Madrid? that was simply world class. Pirlo and Seedorf should be rotated at the upper AM position to prevent them from tiring. Pirlo is the key.

I don't want to take anything away from Pirlo, as the goal against Real Madrid was the one that turned the season around; and his assist to Pato at San Siro was also awesome to say the least, even though it was disallowed for no reason. The problem with him is probably because that he has won so much with both Milan and Italy so that he couldn't be bothered with "small" games now. So is Seedorf of course.

We need to put some pressure on Pirlo by introducing quality backup for him, but our transfer campaign in the past few summers have been dreadful to say the least. Actually I am now watching Sevilla playing Malaga. Luis Fabiano has scored twice in the second half. To think that Leonardo requested Dzeko as his first option, then Fabiano, and we ended up with Huntelaar to whom Leonardo clearly said no at first. We helped Madrid by giving Kaka on the cheap AND taking Huntelaar off their payroll AND wasting 15 million euro (all our budget obviously) AND pay a salary of 3.5M. How stupid is that. On a side note, I think we should stop dealing with Real Madrid. We never gain, have we? At least Inter Merda learned their lesson and no longer deals with us.

[bayern]

Originally Posted by Revolver

I'm watching Bundesliga derby Werder - Wolfsburg right now, it's halftime, Wolfsburg leads 1:0, Dzeko scored a fabulous goal.

He scored a great goal against CSKA in CL too.

Yep.

Today, His coach revealed that he can leave in summer for a certain price tag. 'He will decide', says Veh about Dzeko's future.

[pirlofanusa]

Originally Posted by Xudong

I don't want to take anything away from Pirlo, as the goal against Real Madrid was the one that turned the season around; and his assist to Pato at San Siro was also awesome to say the least, even though it was disallowed for no reason. The problem with him is probably because that he has won so much with both Milan and Italy so that he couldn't be bothered with "small" games now. So is Seedorf of course.

We need to put some pressure on Pirlo by introducing quality backup for him, but our transfer campaign in the past few summers have been dreadful to say the least. Actually I am now watching Sevilla playing Malaga. Luis Fabiano has scored twice in the second half. To think that Leonardo requested Dzeko as his first option, then Fabiano, and we ended up with Huntelaar to whom Leonardo clearly said no at first. We helped Madrid by giving Kaka on the cheap AND taking Huntelaar off their payroll AND wasting 15 million euro (all our budget obviously) AND pay a salary of 3.5M. How stupid is that. On a side note, I think we should stop dealing with Real Madrid. We never gain, have we? At least Inter Merda learned their lesson and no longer deals with us.

I agree we need a strong backup for Andrea, but still think Hunter is a total waste?

[Xudong]

Originally Posted by pirlofanusa

I agree we need a strong backup for Andrea, but still think Hunter is a total waste?

I am happy that I was wrong. I am hoping that he could keep it up. Hopefully he could turn into a Crespo and start scoring like crazy.

[Lebanese]

Xudong we are paying 15 mil dollars for hunter not euros
which is 10 mil euro