Speaking of .... Renato Sanches
-He could become a good example of what Stitch says about Bayern ruining players. They spent huge money on him and benched him and refused loan offers. It is like an expensive example of what Montella seemed to be doing to Locatelli. Bayern mid is even more crowded this summer. Rudy, Tolisso added too.
(07-12-2017, 01:23 AM)Stitch Wrote: [ -> ]I strongly disagree. Gayern is the perfect example of a team that screws everybody just because they can. They buy everything that is good in Germany and often bench them, just so that those players wouldnt play against them. There is no club in the world that screws the rest of the league as hard as Gayern screws Bundesliga. That is why its a football miracle every time someone else wins the trophy.
Spot on! So much wasted talent has ended up there. Some of those guys could have gone off and been greats elsewhere... can't say I feel too sorry for them though... Hard to feel sorry for a player that leaves for their biggest rival and then gets screwed over...
Same goes for Real and Juve. practically they have same kind of transfer strategy, weakening rival teams and signing best talents in their league. on the other hand, we should take into consideration that English teams wastes talents more than them. What about us? we failed to develop El Shaarwy, Niang, De Sciglio.
l don't think Bundesliga's problem is Bayern. but Dortmund. to Bayern or not, they keep selling their stars, though they have financial power to keep them and fight for scudetto.Now they have RB Leipzig, if they go on like this, they will win a title sooner than later. Regarding La Liga, Barca and Real got the half of TV revenue for years and therefore, this prevented La Liga teams strengthen financial power. Regarding Serie A, mismgt of İnter and Milan for a decade took us here. Juve domination over years.
regarding Sanches, Carlo is to blame about Sanches in my opinion, since they signed him to replace Alonso, who was practically a finished player for them, however Carlo always started him over Sanches. this is why we can't blame Bayern for Sanches, but Carlo.
Meanwhile, my team is RB Leipzig in Bundesliga. Their playing style made me watch their games and l admired their game. Believe me, they will win many titles in the coming years, with buying smart and developing talents in a best way. you should give a try to them.
We are buying (almost) a completely new team. In addition almost all players are still young (under 24-25 years old) except Borini who could be backup players and Musacchio. With regard ot the facts, IMO we should really focus to get game changer for striker and established and quality ones for midfield if we really want CL spot. Biglia suits our need since he is experienced in Serie A and good enough even though not the best one. I agree with others, we still need other midifelders. We have only Montolivo and Locatelli that seems to stay with Milan which means at least we still need a quality midifelder to play with Biglia and Kessie if we choose 433 formation (except the Turk plays in midfield).
Aubameyang could be our game changer but I still have doubt about his real quality. I am curious to see if he has been that good by the help of Dortmund tactic or it is mostly due to his quality. If we could get him, I think we should get him even with 60-70 mil euro (which is huge money) to Milan since in this phase it is not that easy to buy big name players due to our achievement in Serie A last year.
About Montolivo, I think we need him since he is one of experience players and still can play in this new team, at least as squad rotation player, if he manages to motivate himself especially if only Biglia who comes for our midfield department.
What I am really worried of is our backline. We have only Romagnoli there in paper who will be starter and others are newcomers in Serie A and still young (Conti as RB, Musacchio CB and Rodrigues LB). Musacchio is not a guarantee eventhough he is not young. I really hope Musacchio could be our new strong defender who can play with Romagnoli. I do still think we need one experenced CB and Kjaer seems OK option.
(07-12-2017, 03:34 AM)Rimini Wrote: [ -> ]Same goes for Real and Juve. practically they have same kind of transfer strategy, weakening rival teams and signing best talents in their league. on the other hand, we should take into consideration that English teams wastes talents more than them. What about us? we failed to develop El Shaarwy, Niang, De Sciglio.
l don't think Bundesliga's problem is Bayern. but Dortmund. to Bayern or not, they keep selling their stars, though they have financial power to keep them and fight for scudetto.Now they have RB Leipzig, if they go on like this, they will win a title sooner than later. Regarding La Liga, Barca and Real got the half of TV revenue for years and therefore, this prevented La Liga teams strengthen financial power. Regarding Serie A, mismgt of İnter and Milan for a decade took us here. Juve domination over years.
regarding Sanches, Carlo is to blame about Sanches in my opinion, since they signed him to replace Alonso, who was practically a finished player for them, however Carlo always started him over Sanches. this is why we can't blame Bayern for Sanches, but Carlo.
There's only one person to blame there and it's Sanches himself... He's had opportunities, he's had game time, and shown absolutely nothing to show that he warrants being given more opportunities... What do you want Ancelotti to do... drop and in form player to play one who's playing terribly?
It would be like dropping Jack pre injury to put in Berto and then blaming Montella when Berto doesn't work out and ends up not being given more game time...
Bayern is a bigger problem in my opinion... The players Dortmund sold where because Bayern had chatted them up and convinced them to come over... What options do you have? You can then not sell and be stuck with a player that only wants to go to Bayern, or sell at the best price possible? Similar to what's happening not with DES except he's expendable so unless we get the right $$ we're happy to keep him on the bench for a year.
Say Roma said he wanted to go to Juve to win everything and thats the only place he wants to go... we're limited in options. Sell at the best price or keep him and have a bad attitude in the change rooms and a player who doesn't try because he doesn't want to be there.
Spain has always had the same dominance from those two... only thing thats changed over the last 10-15 years is the third team... currently Atletico, but Valencia had their shot, Sevilla did also...
England is all about the $$$
Look where it's gotten them... Their teams suck in euro comps(except for Utd this year)... and their national team team suffers as a result of the majority of teams buying the biggest names because they have the $$ instead of developing young players...
El Shaarwy, Niang, De Sciglio.
El Shaarawy was our fault
Niang was his own fault.
DES was, in my opinion, just bad luck... Injuries at the wrong time, poor timing at the club(coaches and attitude wise)
I hope we don't sell Sosa like reports say we might. I doubt we can get another decent rotational player like him for a few peanuts like we'd sell him for. He's a good passer & I like how he plays, it would be nice to keep him in the squad.
(07-12-2017, 01:23 AM)Stitch Wrote: [ -> ]I strongly disagree. Gayern is the perfect example of a team that screws everybody just because they can. They buy everything that is good in Germany and often bench them, just so that those players wouldnt play against them. There is no club in the world that screws the rest of the league as hard as Gayern screws Bundesliga. That is why its a football miracle every time someone else wins the trophy.
With all due respect, I read about this from folks a lot, and I never really quite understood why people would see things this way. So fundamentally, here are three sins that Bayern committed, they buy too many Bundesliga talent, they bench too many good players and that has led to Bundesliga being non-competitive.
When it comes to a team buys a lot of good players from their domestic league, can you name me one good team in history of soccer that doesn't do this? How many Serie A talent did we buy during our glory days? Hell, is it just coincidental that we just bought Kessie and Conti from Atlanta? A lot of teams do this for a good reason. Players from their domestic leagues have a much shorter learning curve on language, culture, environment, physicality and playing style, thus greatly reducing the bust potential. This practice is actually incredibly common, and I don't personally see anything really wrong with it. Bayern bought players with money, which allows selling team to reinvest in the team. Now if selling team is bad at investing, well, that's hardly Bayern's fault now, is it?
As far as benching a lot of good talent. Bayern is a very talented team with loads of great players. Even the biggest stars in the world might have a hard time becoming starter there. Again, this is not unlike any of the other great teams in the past. Remember when we used to have guys who were superstars on their national teams sitting on our bench? Baggio is a great example of this. You can certainly see this as a way for Bayern to simply weaken competition, but I see it more as they invested in talented players but they don't always work out.
Bundesliga is a one team show in a lot of ways, and I do agree that Bayern's enormous success has had some to do with it. But in all honesty, there have been plenty of talented teams and still are many talented teams in Bundesliga even as we speak. The difference is, Bayern is such a well run team and with a lot of resources that it is almost impossible for another team to match them. Dortmund was at one point on the same level as Bayern back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Then they decided to go for the broke, and literally bankrupted themselves and took years just to recover. I hardly think that is Bayern's fault. Without Bayern, Bundesliga wouldn't be able to attract the level of stars that they feature. Hell, they might not even do better than Portuguese league. It's easy to point to the successful team and say that it is all their fault the league isn't that competitive, but that's really just like when people say Golden State Warriors are bad for basketball.
(07-12-2017, 05:42 AM)slifersd Wrote: [ -> ]With all due respect, I read about this from folks a lot, and I never really quite understood why people would see things this way. So fundamentally, here are three sins that Bayern committed, they buy too many Bundesliga talent, they bench too many good players and that has led to Bundesliga being non-competitive.
When it comes to a team buys a lot of good players from their domestic league, can you name me one good team in history of soccer that doesn't do this? How many Serie A talent did we buy during our glory days? Hell, is it just coincidental that we just bought Kessie and Conti from Atlanta? A lot of teams do this for a good reason. Players from their domestic leagues have a much shorter learning curve on language, culture, environment, physicality and playing style, thus greatly reducing the bust potential. This practice is actually incredibly common, and I don't personally see anything really wrong with it. Bayern bought players with money, which allows selling team to reinvest in the team. Now if selling team is bad at investing, well, that's hardly Bayern's fault now, is it?
As far as benching a lot of good talent. Bayern is a very talented team with loads of great players. Even the biggest stars in the world might have a hard time becoming starter there. Again, this is not unlike any of the other great teams in the past. Remember when we used to have guys who were superstars on their national teams sitting on our bench? Baggio is a great example of this. You can certainly see this as a way for Bayern to simply weaken competition, but I see it more as they invested in talented players but they don't always work out.
Bundesliga is a one team show in a lot of ways, and I do agree that Bayern's enormous success has had some to do with it. But in all honesty, there have been plenty of talented teams and still are many talented teams in Bundesliga even as we speak. The difference is, Bayern is such a well run team and with a lot of resources that it is almost impossible for another team to match them. Dortmund was at one point on the same level as Bayern back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Then they decided to go for the broke, and literally bankrupted themselves and took years just to recover. I hardly think that is Bayern's fault. Without Bayern, Bundesliga wouldn't be able to attract the level of stars that they feature. Hell, they might not even do better than Portuguese league. It's easy to point to the successful team and say that it is all their fault the league isn't that competitive, but that's really just like when people say Golden State Warriors are bad for basketball.
The problem is, and I think the animosity stems from tthe fact that they are the only team in the country that are doing it. Plus there's been a few Dortmund players that they've poached now and that doesn't help their image... Especially the way they've signed some of them where signed...
In terms of the talented players getting benched. I agree, most of the ones that have been benched where either not good enough, or bought under one coach/style/system and then haven't quite fit into the newer system.
(07-12-2017, 05:42 AM)WCmilan Wrote: [ -> ]I hope we don't sell Sosa like reports say we might. I doubt we can get another decent rotational player like him for a few peanuts like we'd sell him for. He's a good passer & I like how he plays, it would be nice to keep him in the squad.
I really don't like Sosa... Never been much of a fan. would rather see someone like Mauri get more of a go... For someone with the experience he has, he makes too many mistakes. Same reason why I was happy we sold Kucka.
agree, would like mauri being given a chance as a rotational rather than sosa tbh
(07-12-2017, 06:46 AM)porcho Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is, and I think the animosity stems from tthe fact that they are the only team in the country that are doing it. Plus there's been a few Dortmund players that they've poached now and that doesn't help their image... Especially the way they've signed some of them where signed...
In terms of the talented players getting benched. I agree, most of the ones that have been benched where either not good enough, or bought under one coach/style/system and then haven't quite fit into the newer system.
I really don't like Sosa... Never been much of a fan. would rather see someone like Mauri get more of a go... For someone with the experience he has, he makes too many mistakes. Same reason why I was happy we sold Kucka.
You are probably right in that people hate on Bayern because they are the only team in Germany who has the resources to do this. But again, how is this their fault? Dortmund had their chances to build a sustainable team, and blew it; same thing with Wolfsburg, Leverkusen and Schalke. Not trying to target you or anything, but it sounds like people think Bayern should try to suck just because the rest of the league isn't up to their standards.
The Dortmund players weren't exactly "poached". They were sold by a team that always sell its stars, and for the most part, were pretty well compensated for it. Gotze was sold for almost 40M and Hummels 35M. Those price tags are hardly cheap, especially when you consider that Bundesliga teams very rarely get massive paydays even when they sell their stars to foreign teams. The only one you can say was poached was Lewandowski, since he went to Bayern for free. But that was due to Dortmund insisting on keeping Lewandowski that extra year instead of collecting money from Bayern for the sale. I am not saying Bayern is the perfect little angel in the mercato, but they do their business in a pretty professional matter for the most part from what I can see.