Winter Mercato 11'/12'

[Gabriel426]

Great post Geo, could not have said it better.
To Will4li, i did not say Hamsik will be 40mil, I stated that might or might not be his price at the end bc he is still a Napoli player as of today. Geo used the Pastore example, while I am just going to add to that. Say Napoli still finishes 2nd in the league and makes it to the knockout stage of CL. Someone like De Laurentis will probably willing to spend more money to build his young Napoli squad to get even better instead of selling one of his best players to make a profit unless on offer too good to refuse come in. At least that's my take on the situation, unless you think that is non sense and that every owner or club president will cash in on their star players for a fair price like 40mil instead of 70mil no matter how well their teams performing.

As for Vargas, that's the only part I disagree with Geo, bc he is a very dynamic player and could fit
well as the LCM. He actually does not really play the LW role in Viola as he plays more central.

I kept re reading my previous post and I really can't find a sentence I wrote that I am fine with the free bargain policy. Just because De Rossi might come free next summer does not mean I support the free bargain policy, what I do support is Milan signing Real, not potential,talented players who actually fit their system of play and De Rossi is one of them. If Iniesta, Cesc, Silva, Pique, Vidic, Messi or Neymar become free agents and Milan got them, that would be great but if the free agents are Toni, Rio, Canna, Veira, Grosso, Cordova, Kewell and Fowler, then the answer is a pure no. Monty and Constant are not bad players but Milan needs better players than them to become a better and more competitive team.

As for the 40mil transfer, I just answered a question you asked earlier. I do not know the transfer amount Milan can and will spend nor do I care about it bc it is something I have no control over. Maybe one day Berlu found out he is dying and decide to spend 400mil in one summer to get Messi, Kaka, Gotze, Vidic, Hernanes, Sandro, Hamsik, Marcelo, Honda and Neuer all in one go to make Milan be THE invincible again before he dies in a few months, or he might just spent that amount on orgies like he is now.

Lastly, which part of my post indicates or misleads you to believe that Vargas and De Rossi are the missing link between Milan being a true force in CL?

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or just kick him out. either way are good.

for the record, Bonera was hailed as the new Nesta before he joined Milan.

I actually remembered that, Legro and Bonera were supposed to be the next Nesta and Cannavaro.

[slifersd]

or just kick him out. either way are good.

for the record, Bonera was hailed as the new Nesta before he joined Milan.

No, bro, he was hailed as the new Nesta before he joined Parma. He was nothing more than a squad player by the time he left Parma to join us.

[will4li]

About the current market fees, well, that means nothing nowadays, you took Fabregas as an example, but the closest example to try to guess what could be the price of Hamsik is Pastore. The president of Napoli and Palermo are similar (I mean, they are both a little bit crazy, but De Laurentis is a lot better than Zamparini in his role), the role of Pastore and Hamsik is similar (leader of the team), and both players are/were icons in their respective club ...

About Vargas, he's the kind of player I don't really like (an improved version of Emmanuelson, and I don't like the way Emmanuelson plays) and I don't think having him would improve anything in our team ...

Actually, if we want to discuss a whole transfer campaign (next winter and even summer), we need to get a good LB, putting Antonini on the bench, we'll probably need someone to replace Nesta (so a WC defender, Mexes is not this player IMO), I'd like us to get a sub for Abate, and then, the whole work will be with our midfield. If we do change all that in the next mercatos and if that means that we don't win anything this season and next season but become a contender for CL and Serie A in the following seasons, then it's ok for me ... But if our management plans to get one or two players during the summer mercato and then adjust the team during the winter mercato to allow us to win Serie A each season, that's also ok for me !!

We're Milan, we actually need both plans: a short term plan to win the Italian competition(s) and a long term plan to be again a serious contender for CL ...

Right now, the work is only done on the short term (unless the work with the Primavera is their long term plan, but I hope it's just a part of the long term plan) ...

About current market fees,It doesn't mean all things,but it does mean something.at least nobody think the current market value for fabregas is around 20 mln or ibra values only 24 mln.pastore cost PSG 42 mln,it's still in the region of 40 mln.My bad to simply says 40 mln limit,I should put it 'around '40 mln in case we are 2 mln short to miss a big talent.

Agree about your short term and long term plan part.

Don't agree following part:

But if our management plans to get one or two players during the summer mercato and then adjust the team during the winter mercato to allow us to win Serie A each season, that's also ok for me !!

I'm ok our objective is serie-A this season,but We shall target CL champion next season.As a long time milan fan,I can't tolerate we build a team just to dominate domestically.

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Great post Geo, could not have said it better.
To Will4li, i did not say Hamsik will be 40mil, I stated that might or might not be his price at the end bc he is still a Napoli player as of today. Geo used the Pastore example, while I am just going to add to that. Say Napoli still finishes 2nd in the league and makes it to the knockout stage of CL. Someone like De Laurentis will probably willing to spend more money to build his young Napoli squad to get even better instead of selling one of his best players to make a profit unless on offer too good to refuse come in. At least that's my take on the situation, unless you think that is non sense and that every owner or club president will cash in on their star players for a fair price like 40mil instead of 70mil no matter how well their teams performing.

As for Vargas, that's the only part I disagree with Geo, bc he is a very dynamic player and could fit
well as the LCM. He actually does not really play the LW role in Viola as he plays more central.

I kept re reading my previous post and I really can't find a sentence I wrote that I am fine with the free bargain policy. Just because De Rossi might come free next summer does not mean I support the free bargain policy, what I do support is Milan signing Real, not potential,talented players who actually fit their system of play and De Rossi is one of them. If Iniesta, Cesc, Silva, Pique, Vidic, Messi or Neymar become free agents and Milan got them, that would be great but if the free agents are Toni, Rio, Canna, Veira, Grosso, Cordova, Kewell and Fowler, then the answer is a pure no. Monty and Constant are not bad players but Milan needs better players than them to become a better and more competitive team.

As for the 40mil transfer, I just answered a question you asked earlier. I do not know the transfer amount Milan can and will spend nor do I care about it bc it is something I have no control over. Maybe one day Berlu found out he is dying and decide to spend 400mil in one summer to get Messi, Kaka, Gotze, Vidic, Hernanes, Sandro, Hamsik, Marcelo, Honda and Neuer all in one go to make Milan be THE invincible again before he dies in a few months, or he might just spent that amount on orgies like he is now.

Lastly, which part of my post indicates or misleads you to believe that Vargas and De Rossi are the missing link between Milan being a true force in CL?

You basiclly say Napoli is aiming big,they won't sell hamsik.you possibly right! I mention hamsik is to name a player I can come up with in mind to build a quality counter trident to prevail in CL.if hamsik is unrealistic,we better race hard inter to get gotze,I think it also gonna take us 'around' 40 mln.

If vargas can play LCM,why bale can not,Is vargas defend better? I don't think so.

When a player caliber like cesc,messi becom free agent? market doesn't work that way,it's never gonna happen.anyway,you don't support our free bagain policy,I think you won't approve taiwo and mexes free deal either.

You don't answer my post No364.so I have to read hard between your blur-blurs,and assume your picture of rebuiding plan is Derossi and vargas,In order to clarify your thoughts,you should answer post No364 straight.

[sylrus]

bonera not bad
he just need luck to be wc
and luck havent been to his side if he play games for us
its like the whole team luck is being overlook by the bad luck of bonera
such a shame though

[Gabriel426]

All this is b/c I did not give you a straight forward answer to your post # 364? I didn't know that we must answer each other questions on this forum now. Kind of miss the old forum where we didn't.

Anyhow, lets just work with players who actually got transfer this past summer since nobody knows how much would players that didn't leave would go for, it could be 50 or 10 or 3, nobody knows.
40mil will probably get Vidal(12.5mil), Inler(13mil), Santacroce and maybe even Kjaer(loan), kept Merkel with the team, and promote De Vito. I think I don't need to explain Vidal and Inler as both of them are better players than Aqua and Nocerino. Merkel is there for depth and learning exp for games here and there. With those signings, Milan mid will be more complete and versatile than they are now even before all the injuries. As a 3rd choice CB, Santacroce or/and Kjaer will be good enough. Personally, I never rate Mexes highly, he is actually one of the most over-rated player. I would not say Kjaer and Sanatacroce are better players than Mexes but Kjaer is about the same and Santacroce is not far off, if he regains his forms and confidences. Promoting De Vito is only for more options, if Zambro is out injured. Taiwo to me is a solid LB, at present he is not as good as Zambro defensively. Zambro should still have a year or two in him. Reason why I choose not to sign any LB is b/c there really aint many good FBs at the moment and most of them are around the same quality. Although Andre Santos does look interesting, but he is not a huge upgrade to Zambro. To me, I think the LB problem for MIlan lies with their LCM, since over the past 8 yrs, Slowdorf is playing that role, and he rarely defends. Where on the other side, the RCM is either Gattuso, Flamini, Ambro and now Nocerino, who are all DMs.

In short, they are Inler, Vidal, Merkel, Santacroce, Kjaer and promoting De Vito, should all be done within 30mil not including probably selling Flamini and not renewing Ambro. I don't think that would cost 40mil. This is not a team that could beat Barca or favour to win the CL now, but it is a huge step closer than present Milan with their current mids.

As for Bale and Vargas, yes, Vargas is a better defender than Bale. Vargas is probably a better all around player than Bale, and this is an opinion share by many around the world. The only difference between Vargas and Bale, Bale got a hat-trick against Inter in CL while Vargas has not. Vargas can also play as a DM, a position he played before. But these are just my opinions. I respect that you think Bale is a better player.

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bonera not bad
he just need luck to be wc
and luck havent been to his side if he play games for us
its like the whole team luck is being overlook by the bad luck of bonera
such a shame though

You can blame bad luck once or twice, but that happened to him all the time. I really could not name one time that Bonera mistakes did not cost Milan the game.

[k7r]

De rossi just said there is a chance that he may leave Roma on a bosman in June2012....as the agreement is not to be reached with Roma.....he wants to play in italy for the next 5 years at the least...but he has also stated that it might be difficult for him to join another italian club ...QUITE CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS from him....

Milan link with Khedira has become stronger...why would B&G want him, he is cup tied for heavens sake...oh...wait...may be we are not looking for the champions league at all......we just are competing for serie a title only.....!!!

Cristian Norgaard (17 yrs Danish attacking midfielder) & Bartosz Salamon (22 yrs Polish midfielder playing for of Brescia) are being strongly linked with Milan, Allegri reportedly are in advanced talks about these two players...........can we have more details on these two players please.....anyone in MM from Denmark & Poland???

One more thing, I feel Allegri made a mistake in letting Merkel and Strasser go on co-ownership/loan.....he should have played them...if we dont play our youngsters more often with the experienced players, how will they learn from them......Just see what Alex Fergusson is doing with youngsters in Man Utd.....he hasnt made big purchases year in year out....what he has done, he will make one or two decent purchases, plus he will introduce the Man utd academy youngsters into the team...so the squad will be an excellent mix of experienced players and younger players with the hunger and determination.....cleverly, phil jones, johny evans, smalling, fletcher, carrick, anderson, fabio, rafael...all these guys came from the youth team and now are playing for the first team on a regular basis and are contenders for EPL and UCL as well....why dont our mgmt understand this!!!!!! bring in Merkel, Strasser, Ganz, de vito, de sciglio etc etc etc

[ZvonimirBoban]

or just kick him out. either way are good.

for the record, Bonera was hailed as the new Nesta before he joined Milan.

ah, those days... Bonera and Matteo Ferrari

[will4li]

All this is b/c I did not give you a straight forward answer to your post # 364? I didn't know that we must answer each other questions on this forum now. Kind of miss the old forum where we didn't.

Anyhow, lets just work with players who actually got transfer this past summer since nobody knows how much would players that didn't leave would go for, it could be 50 or 10 or 3, nobody knows.
40mil will probably get Vidal(12.5mil), Inler(13mil), Santacroce and maybe even Kjaer(loan), kept Merkel with the team, and promote De Vito. I think I don't need to explain Vidal and Inler as both of them are better players than Aqua and Nocerino. Merkel is there for depth and learning exp for games here and there. With those signings, Milan mid will be more complete and versatile than they are now even before all the injuries. As a 3rd choice CB, Santacroce or/and Kjaer will be good enough. Personally, I never rate Mexes highly, he is actually one of the most over-rated player. I would not say Kjaer and Sanatacroce are better players than Mexes but Kjaer is about the same and Santacroce is not far off, if he regains his forms and confidences. Promoting De Vito is only for more options, if Zambro is out injured. Taiwo to me is a solid LB, at present he is not as good as Zambro defensively. Zambro should still have a year or two in him. Reason why I choose not to sign any LB is b/c there really aint many good FBs at the moment and most of them are around the same quality. Although Andre Santos does look interesting, but he is not a huge upgrade to Zambro. To me, I think the LB problem for MIlan lies with their LCM, since over the past 8 yrs, Slowdorf is playing that role, and he rarely defends. Where on the other side, the RCM is either Gattuso, Flamini, Ambro and now Nocerino, who are all DMs.

In short, they are Inler, Vidal, Merkel, Santacroce, Kjaer and promoting De Vito, should all be done within 30mil not including probably selling Flamini and not renewing Ambro. I don't think that would cost 40mil. This is not a team that could beat Barca or favour to win the CL now, but it is a huge step closer than present Milan with their current mids.

As for Bale and Vargas, yes, Vargas is a better defender than Bale. Vargas is probably a better all around player than Bale, and this is an opinion share by many around the world. The only difference between Vargas and Bale, Bale got a hat-trick against Inter in CL while Vargas has not. Vargas can also play as a DM, a position he played before. But these are just my opinions. I respect that you think Bale is a better player.

This is about what's best possible for milan in these dark economy days,nothing else.

Glad to read your first half rebuilding plan,I don't see a major upgrade to our current rosters,but I respect your opinion.I'm eager to see the second half plan about how to build a team to win CL in next 2 years before nesta shows age dramatically.but remember you already spent 35 mln( I think kjaer will cost 10 mln),while our management only spend 1 mln.and maybe our transfer budget will be 20 mln next summer(it's high likely if you do homework about our average annual transfer budget in last 7 years).let's say you have 25 mln at disposal to build a CL winning caliber team without free bagains.

While our management has 60 mln in the pocket,after get free monty,maybe 3 mln on constant.then they can spend 40 mln for gotze(if hamsik is unavailable),plan a robinho-torress swap,plan 15 mln for sandro.that's a well-equipped team to compete CL. flexible also,we can play counter at CL,and play ibra tactic at Serie-A.

It's not only me think bale is better than vargas, market says so! bale values 40 mln now,what's the pricetag for vargas? 13 mln!?

[Arildonardo]

bonera not bad
he just need luck to be wc
and luck havent been to his side if he play games for us
its like the whole team luck is being overlook by the bad luck of bonera
such a shame though

You're kidding, right?

He was a great talent while at Brescia. He was ok at Parma. He joined us in 2006 and hasn't performed very well since that, to say the least. 5 years of constant bad luck? I don't think so...

[Gabriel426]

U r only looking at transfer amount and not wages. Mexes alone is costign Milan 8mil wages before tax a year, while Kjaer and Santacroce are about 4 mil before tax a yr combine. If say all three sign a four yr contract, maybe signing both Santacroce and Kjaer will cost 12-15 mil in transfer fee but their wages are actually 16mil less than Mexes. You kept saying Milan needs to save money.....in order to get someone at 40mil.....but what you kept overlooking is their wages expenses. In today's football world, transfer fee is only part of the payment for players, the most part is their wages. Inter might have sold Eto for 30mil, but they actually also save another 20mil in wages this year. Let's say they actually spent all that 30mil on another striker while the wages for this striker is 14 mil before tax, they still save or make 6mil.
Also, I never said Milan should not sign free players, what I said was, if the free players are good enough, fits into the system, Milan should sign them. for example, if Messi is a free player is summer and willing to sign with Milan, I really see nothing wrong with signing him.
Back to your question about how Milan can win CL in 2 yrs with a midfield of Vidal, Inler, Boateng and others. Having sign Vidal and Inler will mean two of Gattuso, Ambro and Flamini will be gone, while not signing Aqua. If the reports is true about Anzhi wanting Gattuso and willing to pay 8-10mil to get him, then that should be at least 8 mil coming in plus another 9mil save in wages. Milan could probably sell Flamini for at least 8 mil and his wages before tax is 8mil. Just offloading these two players Milan will make/save 33 mil this year. Of course Vidal and Inler would not play for three but I think their combine wages is 12 mil before tax, thus it is a saving of 4 mil in wages. While Aqua is 6mil and I think Milan is paying part of 8mil wages, let's day that figure is 4mil. In the end, Milan will save 8mil in wages this year along with making 16mil in transfer. That should give you a total of 20mil plus according to you the 5 mil left over from your suggestion of 40mil. That would be 25 mil.
Then in defense, having Santacroce and Kjaer will means no more Bonera, just having Bonera off Milan
books Is a saving of 3mil this yr. That would make it 28mil. You add in Taiwo 5 mil before tax wages is year and say De Vito makes 1 mil before tax. That's another saving of 4 mil, which would give a total of 32 mil left over. That should be enough to get Hernanes.

Lastly, it is quite funny how you rate Bale better than Vargas due to his price tag, Bc according to this logic, it would mean whoever cost more transfer fee is a better player while you kept saying Monty,
Aqua and Constant are good enough players compare to players like Inler and Vidal who cost more than double than those three.