Summer Mercato

[slifersd]

Will Berlusconi finally try to pull a few dollars out of the G-string of his teenage hookers and help us sign a couple of players and qualify for the CL in 2016? It would be highly highly embarassing, even by Berlusconi standard if we don't even get to play in the CL the year we host the CL final.

[Graeme_C]

Torres' entourage are saying it's looking more and more likely following a meeting with Galliani. It's beyond sad that we've fallen this low and are so pathetic.

The only thing I can imagine is JayCrisp is right, that Berlusconi is effectively asset stripping the club. This serves two purposes, one to make money off the club while he can and secondly to reduce the value of the club to sell, as right no one will pay the value of the club (something like 700m if I remember correctly).

Berlusconi is a leech on the club and there's no doubt that imo he will get whatever he can out of the club. He bought it for political reasons and while no one can deny he's done impressively while running the club (something which I hoped he'd do this summer), he's always used it as a tool to get what he needs, mostly helping his political group Forza Italia. While he's always ran the club for personal interests, there's very little doubt left in my mind that that's all there is. He has no interests of the club at heart and that's evident based on his investments in the club in the past 8 years and the fact that he's never made serious attempts to invest in the long term future.

Thinking about it, there's evidence that he's got interests in selling the club. He constantly bemoans his "investments" (50m a year) in the club publicly, which implies he sees the club as a burden.

In addition, Finnivest leaders (notably his daughter Marina Berlusconi and son, Pierluigi) have for years been wanting to get rid of Milan as it doesn't serve in their interests. The apparent reason that's not happened is Berlusconi has his heart in the club, but realistically, it's more likely there's no buyers prepared to meet his price.

The Italian economy is also in a dire situation and the Italian legal system doesn't exactly help foreign investments, meaning interest in Italian football clubs isn't likely to be great. It's a well known fact that Barbara went around the UAE, Asia and N. America a handful of months ago to try and find investors in the club. While it's publicly denied that it was for full ownership and was to find partners, realistically I think it's fair to say the way they announced everything publicly (effectively advertising Milan through the media), suggests otherwise. Obviously this whole endeavour ended without much success. Truth is, this is across the board in Italy, as there are very few foreign investors found in the game, James Palotta and Erick Thohir being the anomalies. In both cases, they say it's a matter of personal interests in the club (whether this is true I don't know), but both also paid relatively cheap prices for the clubs. Thohir paid 250m (a third of what Milan's worth) and Palotta paid peanuts (33m I think). Peter Lim offered the Berlusconi's 300m for Milan and it was rejected, but I wonder if Silvio would have said no if he offered 500-600m instead?

Then there's that valuation from Forbes. Honestly, that sort of thing isn't just done on a whim, it's something done to understand what the club's value is for selling and interestingly was done just before Barbara set off on her travels. This only further suggests Berlusconi was looking to find sellers.

Speaking of Barbara, it seems a little odd that she had all these grand ideas for the club, but has been completely marginalised by Silvio. It doesn't make sense for him to bring his daughter into the business, only to then sit her on the side doing projects which have no direct impact on the sporting elements (the areas under most scrutiny). You then consider those rumours that she was going into politics and to me it maybe starts making a little sense. At Milan, she's generally been involved in the projects which are of some success and not damaging, while she's actively been in the media eye to help raise her profile. Silvio historically has used the club to gain popularity and success in the political world, so why not use what he can for his daughter too?

Then there's Adriano Galliani, who has no issues working with the instructions that Silvio gives him. Every action he's taking is effectively devaluing Milan, something Silvio imo probably wants in his attempts to sell. Add to this his comments of always following Silvio and only working under Silvio and I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a man who's happy to collect a fat paycheck while "asset stripping" the club for the owner and his friend to eventually sell. I wouldn't be surprised that at the end of it, Galliani retires and enjoys the money he's gotten over the years.

Finally, Italian football itself is a product in rapid decline and risks falling into obscurity (if it hasn't already). An entrepreneur and businessman like Silvio isn't likely to keep a club which is costing him and is part of an industry that's failing. Add to this his age and Milan no longer serves the purpose it did 30 years ago. Finally, outside of possibly Barbara, none of his kids seem interested in running the club in the future, so why keep it?

I have a feeling we only did Casa Milan as the club has no real assets, no stadium and the club got money back from Via Turati. Also explains why its rented rather than buy. Hes going to have to sell soon before the club devalues anymore.

[Graeme_C]

line from Batman really sums up Berlu atm:

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

Ive been thinking more about the political side and Italian football. I cant get my head around why the stadium was never done. Being a politician, would have thought the amount of jobs it would create for the ecomony would have been the selling point alone.

Italian football has suffered because of Milans and the big clubs lack of spending. 10 years ago the smaller clubs were more competitive and invested in youth. Its one big circle..

[ACMILAN1983]

I have a feeling we only did Casa Milan as the club has no real assets, no stadium and the club got money back from Via Turati. Also explains why its rented rather than buy. Hes going to have to sell soon before the club devalues anymore.

Possibly, I think it's also related to the side projects Barbara's using to get herself seen in the public eye. Not to say I think Casa Milan is bad or anything, I actually think it's one of the few good things this management has done in recent years.

line from Batman really sums up Berlu atm:

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

Ive been thinking more about the political side and Italian football. I cant get my head around why the stadium was never done. Being a politician, would have thought the amount of jobs it would create for the ecomony would have been the selling point alone.

Italian football has suffered because of Milans and the big clubs lack of spending. 10 years ago the smaller clubs were more competitive and invested in youth. Its one big circle..

I don't think Berlusconi was ever a hero, even if I respect his business acumen, but I get your point (btw, I'm a huge fan of the dark knight trilogy! ). Anyway, the state of Italian football and the way it got this way is due to numerous reasons imo, but not something I have time to go into now.

What I wanted to add in my post earlier which I forgot to was evidence about Berlusconi's lack of personal/sentimental attachment to Milan:

http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2013/11/07/...33960.html

Essentially, his lawyer for 16 years and a former Milan director says Berlusconi actually tried to buy Inter in 78, but the deal was rejected by the Inter president. Ultimately, it just shows that when it came down to it, Milan was mostly a business/political venture for the man. Galliani also supported Juve before working at Milan. I think this stuff is fairly common knowledge, but also eye opening when looking at the details.

Honestly, I do get the impression we're now heading towards an eventual sale like I said in my previous post and wonder if people agree based on the evidence.

Not to say I'm against it, I hope for change and hopefully for someone with the club's interest at heart. However, I've stated before I think our greatest resources are the young talents we develop, but right now I'm not at all convinced this management won't sell them in the near future.

[nefremo]

I'm just scared that these clowns will keep stripping Milan of every asset. Next summer is SES, then MDS, then Cristante, then Mastour, etc.

In any case, I'll refrain from commenting until Monday. After that we will have a much more clear idea of where we are heading. Truth be told, with the squad on our hands now and with Inzaghi's ideas...I truly think that we can challenge for a top 3 spot. It won't be pretty and we'll have to grind out a lot of results but it's doable. I'm not overly impressed with Napoli and never was. As poor as we were last season we were still only 10 points behind them in January. Had we beaten them when Seedorf took over the gap was only going to be 7 points. The bigger problem is Inter and even Fiorentina who are both looking good.

But this squad is not bad and it can compete for that 3rd place. Yes we are lacking creativity, but we can make it up in in other areas. The sale of Balotelli will create a different harmony among the players, I truly believe that. I also think having SES and Rami the entire season will be huge. Honda will also be there and hopefully he can improve. A healthy MDS will also be great and the addition of Menez and Alex gives us something we didn't have last season. I think this is a better squad then last season's and on top of that almost everyone vastly underperformed last year.
All in all I'm not too concerned with that. The biggest concern for me is the fact that Berlu and Galliani use every excuse in the book not to invest money in the team. And that worries me as to where we are heading in the future and what their plan is with this team. If they are planning to sell then fine, but if they are planning to only keep us afloat without any investment and ambition, then we are in trouble.

Anyway, like I said, I think on Tuesday we will have a much more clear picture of all this. I don't exclude the possibility of them splashing some money this weekend and acting like saviours.

[slifersd]

Frankly speaking, as long as Berlusconi actually sells the team, I am ok with selling every one on this team. No offense, but Mastour, ELS and DES are not Messi or CR7. They are good players, but they are not players who can anchor a whole team. If selling them means Berlu will finally get the hell out, I would have no problem with that.

[ACMILAN1983]

Thought it was invaluable to share this article here:

http://www.milannews.it/l-editoriale/dop...ghi-153660

Essentially it's all about how poor the management has been and how little support Pippo's getting as coach. It's very much in line with what fans are saying and definitely a change from the norm of the media which has generally reported the actions of the management without any real scrutiny. Here's the kicker for me though, it's written by Luca Serafini, who if I'm correct is one of the most respected sports journalists in Mediaset (Silvio's media outlet).

Also in the news is if Van Ginkel comes, Cristante is likely to go on loan to Benfica:

http://www.milannews.it/calciomercato-mi...ica-153741

Seriously, what's with the hype around Van Ginkel? I just don't get it.

Tuttosport says that the "low spending" markets are all about having a healthy balance sheet to entice foreign investment in the club:

http://www.milannews.it/primo-piano/tutt...lan-153740

I already wrote my thoughts on this at length yesterday.

I'm just scared that these clowns will keep stripping Milan of every asset. Next summer is SES, then MDS, then Cristante, then Mastour, etc.

In any case, I'll refrain from commenting until Monday. After that we will have a much more clear idea of where we are heading. Truth be told, with the squad on our hands now and with Inzaghi's ideas...I truly think that we can challenge for a top 3 spot. It won't be pretty and we'll have to grind out a lot of results but it's doable. I'm not overly impressed with Napoli and never was. As poor as we were last season we were still only 10 points behind them in January. Had we beaten them when Seedorf took over the gap was only going to be 7 points. The bigger problem is Inter and even Fiorentina who are both looking good.

But this squad is not bad and it can compete for that 3rd place. Yes we are lacking creativity, but we can make it up in in other areas. The sale of Balotelli will create a different harmony among the players, I truly believe that. I also think having SES and Rami the entire season will be huge. Honda will also be there and hopefully he can improve. A healthy MDS will also be great and the addition of Menez and Alex gives us something we didn't have last season. I think this is a better squad then last season's and on top of that almost everyone vastly underperformed last year.
All in all I'm not too concerned with that. The biggest concern for me is the fact that Berlu and Galliani use every excuse in the book not to invest money in the team. And that worries me as to where we are heading in the future and what their plan is with this team. If they are planning to sell then fine, but if they are planning to only keep us afloat without any investment and ambition, then we are in trouble.

Anyway, like I said, I think on Tuesday we will have a much more clear picture of all this. I don't exclude the possibility of them splashing some money this weekend and acting like saviours.

I'm worried about them stripping down the young assets too.

As for challenging for top 3, it's difficult because Roma, Juve, Napoli, Fiorentina and even Inter all have a headstart on us (not necessarily better players, but more stability and experienced coaches). Our biggest hope is Pippo can get things right and get the most out of what we have. It's a lot to ask of a rookie.

Frankly speaking, as long as Berlusconi actually sells the team, I am ok with selling every one on this team. No offense, but Mastour, ELS and DES are not Messi or CR7. They are good players, but they are not players who can anchor a whole team. If selling them means Berlu will finally get the hell out, I would have no problem with that.

I strongly disagree here. Firstly, we're talking about Berlusconi stripping the squad of the only real assets we have left, our young players coming through. These guys (with the exception of SES) have grown up in the Milan youth academy and are therefore invaluable for developing the right culture at the club, something which we shouldn't lose for the future. Finally a quick rundown of these players suggests they can reach the extreme heights of Messi or Ronaldo:

- Mastour: This guy was courted all over the world and we paid over the odds to get him at 14. Like Messi, he's made his breakthrough to senior level at 16 and honestly, you just need to see him amongst his peers (and age group) to see he's miles ahead of anyone coming through technically.

- SES: If you're talking about a player to anchor the team, then this guy did it two years ago in a period where we risked having a season like the last one. At the same age, Ronaldo showed technical qualities not normal, but hadn't shown the end product or maturity and directness that SES already does. Difference might be Ronaldo's got an obsessive personality to be the best and had Alex Ferguson to help him grow, but there's no reason El Shaarawy can't grow to reach similar levels.

- DES: If you can name me one defender of his quality at the same age, then I'll go on the record saying he's sell-able. I'm very confident I won't be on record saying DES is sell-able.

- Cristante: At the same age Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta etc were making a name for themselves at youth level and struggled to break through to senior level for a while longer. Cristante's arguably ahead of them in this regard, but fundamentally we're talking about a player who's widely regarded as one of the best young midfielders coming through in the world game. There's a reason Benfica (a club known for their scouting and ability to develop young talents into players who are later sold at much higher profits) have pushed so hard to buy him.

[Hitman]

Torres' entourage are saying it's looking more and more likely following a meeting with Galliani. It's beyond sad that we've fallen this low and are so pathetic.

The only thing I can imagine is JayCrisp is right, that Berlusconi is effectively asset stripping the club. This serves two purposes, one to make money off the club while he can and secondly to reduce the value of the club to sell, as right no one will pay the value of the club (something like 700m if I remember correctly).

Berlusconi is a leech on the club and there's no doubt that imo he will get whatever he can out of the club. He bought it for political reasons and while no one can deny he's done impressively while running the club (something which I hoped he'd do this summer), he's always used it as a tool to get what he needs, mostly helping his political group Forza Italia. While he's always ran the club for personal interests, there's very little doubt left in my mind that that's all there is. He has no interests of the club at heart and that's evident based on his investments in the club in the past 8 years and the fact that he's never made serious attempts to invest in the long term future.

Thinking about it, there's evidence that he's got interests in selling the club. He constantly bemoans his "investments" (50m a year) in the club publicly, which implies he sees the club as a burden.

In addition, Finnivest leaders (notably his daughter Marina Berlusconi and son, Pierluigi) have for years been wanting to get rid of Milan as it doesn't serve in their interests. The apparent reason that's not happened is Berlusconi has his heart in the club, but realistically, it's more likely there's no buyers prepared to meet his price.

The Italian economy is also in a dire situation and the Italian legal system doesn't exactly help foreign investments, meaning interest in Italian football clubs isn't likely to be great. It's a well known fact that Barbara went around the UAE, Asia and N. America a handful of months ago to try and find investors in the club. While it's publicly denied that it was for full ownership and was to find partners, realistically I think it's fair to say the way they announced everything publicly (effectively advertising Milan through the media), suggests otherwise. Obviously this whole endeavour ended without much success. Truth is, this is across the board in Italy, as there are very few foreign investors found in the game, James Palotta and Erick Thohir being the anomalies. In both cases, they say it's a matter of personal interests in the club (whether this is true I don't know), but both also paid relatively cheap prices for the clubs. Thohir paid 250m (a third of what Milan's worth) and Palotta paid peanuts (33m I think). Peter Lim offered the Berlusconi's 300m for Milan and it was rejected, but I wonder if Silvio would have said no if he offered 500-600m instead?

Then there's that valuation from Forbes. Honestly, that sort of thing isn't just done on a whim, it's something done to understand what the club's value is for selling and interestingly was done just before Barbara set off on her travels. This only further suggests Berlusconi was looking to find sellers.

Speaking of Barbara, it seems a little odd that she had all these grand ideas for the club, but has been completely marginalised by Silvio. It doesn't make sense for him to bring his daughter into the business, only to then sit her on the side doing projects which have no direct impact on the sporting elements (the areas under most scrutiny). You then consider those rumours that she was going into politics and to me it maybe starts making a little sense. At Milan, she's generally been involved in the projects which are of some success and not damaging, while she's actively been in the media eye to help raise her profile. Silvio historically has used the club to gain popularity and success in the political world, so why not use what he can for his daughter too?

Then there's Adriano Galliani, who has no issues working with the instructions that Silvio gives him. Every action he's taking is effectively devaluing Milan, something Silvio imo probably wants in his attempts to sell. Add to this his comments of always following Silvio and only working under Silvio and I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a man who's happy to collect a fat paycheck while "asset stripping" the club for the owner and his friend to eventually sell. I wouldn't be surprised that at the end of it, Galliani retires and enjoys the money he's gotten over the years.

Finally, Italian football itself is a product in rapid decline and risks falling into obscurity (if it hasn't already). An entrepreneur and businessman like Silvio isn't likely to keep a club which is costing him and is part of an industry that's failing. Add to this his age and Milan no longer serves the purpose it did 30 years ago. Finally, outside of possibly Barbara, none of his kids seem interested in running the club in the future, so why keep it?

good post. agreed with everything except the part in bold.

There are rumours today (MNews.it, calciomercato) that Milan's going for this low-cost mercato to lower the costs of the club, to make it more attractive for an investor to come in, because without them we can't build a new stadium. That's in agreement with what you said. They, and yourself, are badly mistaken in this. It just does not make any sense whatsoever to want to decrease your club's value if you want to sell it.

Earlier this summer Peter Lim (now at Valencia) offers 300m euro to get 50% of the club, but Milan said 300m will get you 30%, and the deal was off. Today, Milan has sold pretty much all of their most valuable assets in the last 4-5 years, does not have any star player anymore, no marketable players either. We have sold 16,000 season tickets and the season starts tomorrow, a record low. The stadium will not just be boring to attend (not to mention painful watching the pathetic squad compete with the likes of Torino, Udinese, Verona for that 6th Europa League spot - our highest achievable target), the stadium will also be horrible to watch on TV. Who wants to watch a game with 75% of the seats empty? That will also be an important factor for the upcoming TV rights deal, meaning Milan will be televised less and less, decreasing our primary source of revenue from TV rights.

Not only will we lose a lot in TV rights, I assure you that our sponsors will refuse to pay us the amounts they pay Juventus, and other top European teams, because quite simply our team is not watched enough - why would they invest money on something that won't be seen when they can easily invest in a team like Southampton - plays in the EPL, full stadium, ambition, and so on.

Point I'm trying to make is with all these revenues going down - TV rights, marketing, brand being less attractive, no star players, no stadium, no success in football, our value ridiculously goes down. That 300m of Peter Lim had him ask for 51% stake, if he brought that today -- he's going to ask for 75%. It simply DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE to want to drop your teams value down to ask seek investors. Just sell it for less! If he took that 300m of Peter Lim for 51%, at least Lim would have invested and recreated the brand and Berlusconi would still own 49% of a developing (increasing in value) brand.

From a business/financial stand point-- it makes no sense what so ever for them to want to lower the club's value if they want to sell a stake.

It's like you telling me, I'll pay $100,000 to buy your full option Mercedes CLS 63 AMG, but I want $150,000. So I go on take away all the options from the car and then come back to you and tell you, here you go, now I'll sell it for $100,000 -- are you still going to accept it? Hell no!



It really pains me to compare Milan to teams like Southampton, but it is the sad truth, if I was an unbiased player and I'm 20 years old and have potential, I will chose Southampton over Milan as Milan have absolutely nothing more than Southampton except history. The sooner we accept this, the faster we can move on. We need major rebuilding and it will take half a decade or more to return to the top. And that's assuming we get sold to a rich investor. The sad reality is that, we're not going to get sold anytime soon. We are stuck with Berlusconi's ego.

[devoted_dm]

There are rumours today (MNews.it, calciomercato) that Milan's going for this low-cost mercato to lower the costs of the club, to make it more attractive for an investor to come in, because without them we can't build a new stadium. That's in agreement with what you said. They, and yourself, are badly mistaken in this. It just does not make any sense whatsoever to want to decrease your club's value if you want to sell it.

Point I'm trying to make is with all these revenues going down - TV rights, marketing, brand being less attractive, no star players, no stadium, no success in football, our value ridiculously goes down. That 300m of Peter Lim had him ask for 51% stake, if he brought that today -- he's going to ask for 75%. It simply DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE to want to drop your teams value down to ask seek investors. Just sell it for less! If he took that 300m of Peter Lim for 51%, at least Lim would have invested and recreated the brand and Berlusconi would still own 49% of a developing (increasing in value) brand.

From a business/financial stand point-- it makes no sense what so ever for them to want to lower the club's value if they want to sell a stake.

There are a lot of things I agree with here, but at the same point, I think it's important to remember that football is not a normal industry. Berlusconi is looking for a minority shareholder, someone who can come in and finance the new stadium. Yes, he will lose money by lowering the club's value, an unfortunate side effect of the austerity policy we're seeing right now, but then again, his goal is obviously not to make money here.
As strange as it might seem, it looks as if he's actually doing this to ensure the long-term future of the club. Milan will be much harder to sell if the club is in debt or has other financial problems. Our current poor results are much less likely to put potential buyers off.

Yeah, this situation sucks and I hate that we're not doing better on the pitch right now, but it's worth it if this is what it takes to get our own stadium, because Milan needs it to be able to compete at the very highest level again. We simply need to make a lot more money than we do now. A new stadium would not only sell more tickets, but it would make us (and Serie A) more attractive to sponsors as well. So the long term financial gains are far greater than the short term losses.

I am not a big Silvio fan, but I do think he actually cares about Milan, and I don't think he wants to be remembered as the president who won everything and then destroyed the club.

[Jokka]

I strongly disagree here. Firstly, we're talking about Berlusconi stripping the squad of the only real assets we have left, our young players coming through. These guys (with the exception of SES) have grown up in the Milan youth academy and are therefore invaluable for developing the right culture at the club, something which we shouldn't lose for the future. Finally a quick rundown of these players suggests they can reach the extreme heights of Messi or Ronaldo:

- Mastour: This guy was courted all over the world and we paid over the odds to get him at 14. Like Messi, he's made his breakthrough to senior level at 16 and honestly, you just need to see him amongst his peers (and age group) to see he's miles ahead of anyone coming through technically.

- SES: If you're talking about a player to anchor the team, then this guy did it two years ago in a period where we risked having a season like the last one. At the same age, Ronaldo showed technical qualities not normal, but hadn't shown the end product or maturity and directness that SES already does. Difference might be Ronaldo's got an obsessive personality to be the best and had Alex Ferguson to help him grow, but there's no reason El Shaarawy can't grow to reach similar levels.

- DES: If you can name me one defender of his quality at the same age, then I'll go on the record saying he's sell-able. I'm very confident I won't be on record saying DES is sell-able.

- Cristante: At the same age Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta etc were making a name for themselves at youth level and struggled to break through to senior level for a while longer. Cristante's arguably ahead of them in this regard, but fundamentally we're talking about a player who's widely regarded as one of the best young midfielders coming through in the world game. There's a reason Benfica (a club known for their scouting and ability to develop young talents into players who are later sold at much higher profits) have pushed so hard to buy him.

I agree we're not selling any of our top youngsters. Well maybe SES if he doesn't deliver this season but certainly not DES, Cristante or Mastour. What people fail to grasp is Milan's entire business philosphy has changed. Instead of buying top players at inflated prices we're developing our own in house. Milan's repeated this strategy publicly over and over but people don't want to listen. Then they get dissappointed when we don't sign any big names.

Anybody who's been following Milan will realize we've been beating off competition to sign top youngsters. We've also extended our scouting network and Milan academies globally. Furtheremore, we've significantly invested in Visamara (youth complex) to upgrade facilities.

I fully expect most of Milan's future starting XI to be academy players. They've realized Barca, Bayern had success with this model and want to follow suit. It's frustrating now because it'll take 3-5 years to start seeing results. Even Barbara said don't expect results sooner than 53years. However, after that, we'll have a high quality squad with Milan's mentality acquired at low cost. We'll also have cemented scouting/training foundations to ensure future generations of success. Berlusconi and Galliani aren't idiots. In fact, they're further ahead than most clubs in this regard.