09-19-2014, 08:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2014, 08:30 PM by nefremo.)
(09-19-2014, 07:43 PM)Jokka Wrote: What are you talking about?! Last season Pirlo-Pogba-Vidal started with Marchisio coming off bench. Roma usually plays 1 of Florenzi/Gervinho and both > Menez/Honda. Llajic is much better too (check his stats). FYI Napoli normally start Callejon + Insignie so Mertens is a bench player.
When did I say Jorginho/Morata/Coman are better now? I said they'll be better in future which you agreed. After watching Coman/reading critics reviews (not keyboard warriors) he's destined to be a major player. Nobody's ever written anything positive about Niang only negative press 
I'm sorry, but the bolded part is a joke. You spent days arguing with me that Niang is not good enought and never will be, yet Coman who also hasn't scored a goal and you've probably only seen play once or twice in your life is "DESTINED" to be a major player! And ALL OF THIS you are basing on "critics reviews" (you can't possibly be basing it on watching him because you couldn't have possibly watched him play any more then once or twice)!!!!!!!?????? I'm not trying to be rude, but you gotta be kidding me! The same CRITICS REVIEWS used to say that Bojan is the next big thing in football! YES, the same Bojan that is now in Stoke....remember, you made that point.
I value your opinion and it's great that you are posting it, but it looks like you definitely think the grass is greener on the other side when it comes to everything that is going on around this club.
BTW, I was going to reply to your points on the "bench players" but Jay did that already so I don't want to repeat his words.
On the subject of young players, this includes everybody from Niang to Coman and even the likes of Gourcuff back then. If you don't take a chance on them and also don't give them a chance (game time) you might as well forget about 'youth project'. Nobody is anywhere close to 100% success rate on youth, not even Barca, but if you are serious about youth you develop AND sign AND give them time.
09-19-2014, 08:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2014, 09:10 PM by Jokka.)
(09-19-2014, 07:49 PM)Jay Crisp Wrote: Well Jokka Boban asked you name one Juve/Roma/Napoli bench player better than Milan starters ,and you quoted him then replied Marchisio/Destro/Gervinho/Ljahic/Mertens/Morata/Coman/Jorginho.You did not say Morata Coman Jorginho will/could be better.
I also didnt say they will be I said COULD be.Im prob the most negative pessimistic Milan fan om here ,but while I share the same thoughts that our squad is average and above average on a good day ,you see no spots you only post negativity ,and im not suggesting you shouldnt air your opinion.
Marchisio played over 40 games last season.
Mertens played in 10 more games than Isigne and 5 games less than Callejon ,not bad for a bench player.
Ljajic i like but hes been pretty disappointing at Roma by his Viola days.In Comans 6 senior games where he has not scored he has shown talent and got good reviews so did Niang (im not a Niang fan BTW ) .
Yes I did. "Off the top of my head Marchisio/Destro/Gervinho/Llajic/Mertens and soon Morata/Coman/Jorginho."
Marchisio played lots of games because Juve's in multiple competitions. Juve played with 3 mids so I'll let you decide who of Pirlo/Pogba/Vidal/Marchisio was bench player. Anyway it doesn't matter they're all better than Honda/Menez. Same goes for Mertens/Insignie/Callejon.
Coman's barely averaged 35 mins for Juve but still get's great reviews. I haven't read anything positive about Niang's performances. Only harsh criticism for his off field antics
(09-19-2014, 08:13 PM)ZvonimirBoban Wrote: Marchisio only become bench player because he's injured much, and he's in different position than Honda or Menez. Florenzi/Gervinho/Mertens? To avoid adding more criterias later in this discussion as happened once before, please describe what parameters you use to state that those players are better than these, etc.
Actually Pogba exploded and benched Marchisio most games. Also Marchisio can play anywhere in midfield as can Menez/Honda. My criteria includes both stats and critics opinions. Menez bombed in Serie A before and Honda flopped hard last season. Meanwhile Florenzi/Gervinho/Mertens put up good numbers and got great reviews. Everybody was praising their signings last season unlike Honda.
(09-19-2014, 08:23 PM)nefremo Wrote: I'm sorry, but the bolded part is a joke. You spent days arguing with me that Niang is not good enought and never will be, yet Coman who also hasn't scored a goal and you've probably only seen play once or twice in your life is "DESTINED" to be a major player! And ALL OF THIS you are basing on "critics reviews" (you can't possibly be basing it on watching him because you couldn't have possibly watched him play any more then once or twice)!!!!!!!?????? I'm not trying to be rude, but you gotta be kidding me! The same CRITICS REVIEWS used to say that Bojan is the next big thing in football! YES, the same Bojan that is now in Stoke....remember, you made that point.
I value your opinion and it's great that you are posting it, but it looks like you definitely think the grass is greener on the other side when it comes to everything that is going on around this club.
BTW, I was going to reply to your points on the "bench players" but Jay did that already so I don't want to repeat his words.
What about the hype surrounding Mastour? Are we wrong to believe he's destined to be a star based on critics opinions? No because we've seen his talent a few times ourselves. I feel the same way about Coman based on his limited game time. Meanwhile I've watched Niang 30+ times and never seen anything remotely special. I also factor in no serious clubs want him and critics don't speak his name.
Bojan's a different kettle of fish entirely. Unfortunately he isn't physically blessed like Niang so struggled to make his mark. Anyway, he's still been far more successful than Niang 
(09-19-2014, 08:41 PM)reza Wrote: On the subject of young players, this includes everybody from Niang to Coman and even the likes of Gourcuff back then. If you don't take a chance on them and also don't give them a chance (game time) you might as well forget about 'youth project'. Nobody is anywhere close to 100% success rate on youth, not even Barca, but if you are serious about youth you develop AND sign AND give them time.
Oh we had good youth players (Abumeyang, Paloschi, Darmian, Astori, Cristante) but never gave them a chance. We preferred to play ageing senatore's/fodders instead Nobody's 100% but Barca's youth development is stunning. With all the talent they've promoted they still managed to sell Icardi, Keita, Alacantra etc.
09-19-2014, 09:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2014, 09:13 PM by Jay Crisp.)
Yes Jokka you did ,my mistake.I would like if you could lay off the facepalm its very annoying even disrespectful when aimed at a forum member ,this isnt a certain other board thats infatuated with idiocy.
On your thoughts Menez was way more cold than hot at Roma disappointing very disappointing.
Honda was too but a Japanese in Italy eager to impress in a team in chaos it wasnt going to be easy , he looks better now even if its two games.
And about Bojan , as you said give him.Niangs physique and athletic ability with his own technical skill yum a great player.
09-19-2014, 09:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2014, 10:18 PM by Jokka.)
Guys if you need a good laugh for the weekend checkout Berlu's latest comments:-
Silvio Berlusconi: "I think that we can return to where we deserve to be in 2-3 years: to be protagonists in Italy, Europe and the world."
Did he forget to take his meds or something? FYI the kiddie fiddler said EXACTLY the same thing 3 years ago. According to him then we should be European champions this season. He'll probably say same thing in another 3 years
(09-19-2014, 09:11 PM)Jay Crisp Wrote: Yes Jokka you did ,my mistake.I would like if you could lay off the facepalm its very annoying even disrespectful when aimed at a forum member ,this isnt a certain other board thats infatuated with idiocy.
On your thoughts Menez was way more cold than hot at Roma disappointing very disappointing.
Honda was too but a Japanese in Italy eager to impress in a team in chaos it wasnt going to be easy , he looks better now even if its two games.
And about Bojan , as you said give him.Niangs physique and athletic ability with his own technical skill yum a great player.
Sorry but your comment was facepalm worthy. Promise I'll tone it down in future though 
The general consensus is Menez flopped at Roma. He had a few standout performances but was wildly inconsistent mostly. I think Menez's a good squad player but no champion. He's not going to make us Serie A or even top 3 contenders. I feel the same about Honda though he's slower so more limited. I believe any half decent defence will shut him down easy like last season. Lazio/Parma's laughable attempts at defending may've misled some fans into believing Menez/Honda are better than they are.
(09-19-2014, 08:45 PM)Jokka Wrote: Oh we had good youth players (Abumeyang, Paloschi, Darmian, Astori, Cristante) but never gave them a chance. We preferred to play ageing senatore's/fodders instead Nobody's 100% but Barca's youth development is stunning. With all the talent they've promoted they still managed to sell Icardi, Keita, Alacantra etc.
Of course, Milan's youth policy doesn't deserve anything more than D-
But we shouldn't overrate or even rate others to use in comparison. If a serious policy is set in place it can succeed without comparisons.
I saw that Berlusconi video. I doubt we are 2-3 years away from big successes. I guess we could revise and change the meaning "big successes" though 
Berlu is delusional at this stage.His comments mean nothing.
Jokka about those facepalms ,DAS ANUFF 
09-19-2014, 10:32 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2014, 10:36 PM by nefremo.)
What does Mastour have to do with any of it. It's an irrelevant example when it comes to what we were talking about. We can believe or think that he'll be a class player, but he needs to prove it. Then we'll see if the critics are right or wrong. You are giving me an example that's not even an example YET. Just speculation. Critics are both right and wrong in thousands of cases. They say good things about thousands of players and are right about some and terribly wrong about others. I gave an example of Bojan...a fact (that critics were wrong), that you agree with cuz you are the one that brought him up in the first place. But of course, you have an excuse again....this time it's that Bojan doesn't have the physique. Clearly the big critics didn't think about that one (physique) did they? Could it be just remotely possible that they are wrong about Coman too? Surely you can't tell from watching him play in one game can you? And surely you can't tell that he'll soon be better then Menez and Honda!! After all, two years ago Niang was supposed to be a better player then Menez and Honda too.....
Fact of the matter is...for an opinion that's based on critics, you sure do seem absolutely positive that your opinion is right. Even if like I said, those critics have been wrong thousands of times and will be wrong thousands of more times.
(09-19-2014, 10:32 PM)nefremo Wrote: What does Mastour have to do with any of it. It's an irrelevant example when it comes to what we were talking about. We can believe or think that he'll be a class player, but he needs to prove it. Then we'll see if the critics are right or wrong. You are giving me an example that's not even an example YET. Just speculation. Critics are both right and wrong in thousands of cases. They say good things about thousands of players and are right about some and terribly wrong about others. I gave an example of Bojan...a fact (that critics were wrong), that you agree with cuz you are the one that brought him up in the first place. But of course, you have an excuse again....this time it's that Bojan doesn't have the physique. Clearly the big critics didn't think about that one (physique) did they? Could it be just remotely possible that they are wrong about Coman too? Surely you can't tell from watching him play in one game can you? And surely you can't tell that he'll soon be better then Menez and Honda!! After all, two years ago Niang was supposed to be a better player then Menez and Honda too.....
Fact of the matter is...for an opinion that's based on critics, you sure do seem absolutely positive that your opinion is right. Even if like I said, those critics have been wrong thousands of times and will be wrong thousands of more times.
Why is Mastour irrelevant? I said Coman's a great prospect based on critics reports and after watching him. Same critics rated Mastour world's top youngster based on a few cameos. Red Bull gave him a sponsorship deal based on his potential star quality. You could say same about Cristante (RIP) who was heralded a future champion after a couple games.
Why is physique an "excuse" for Bojan? It's a perfectly valid reason for his failure since his technical ability's great. If Bojan had Niang's physique we'd have a legitimate top prospect. Instead he plays for Stoke whilst we're stuck with football's non entity Niang.
09-20-2014, 01:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2014, 01:25 AM by nefremo.)
Mastour is irrelevant because it's fiction. It's something that hasn't happened yet. I don't care if the so called experts say he will be a great player. I expect him to be one too, but until he is I can't use him as an example in an argument. Bojan on the other hand is a proven fact. A fact that he was hyped up by critics (the same critics that you trust so much) and failed. Fact. This is why I'm saying you can't base your opinion and argue it by the skin of your nails based on those critics alone.
I don't understand what your point IF Bojan had Niang's physique is. He doesn't have it. It's a done deal. If Ronaldinho had Ronaldo's work ethic, he'd still be the best player in the world. But he doesn't so it's a done deal. How can I possible use that in an argument to strengthen my point?!
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