View Full Version : Ancelotti must go......
having sat through the worst 45 mins of the season i think its time for milan to start thinking of its next manager.
i couldn`t believe what i was watching and i can only blame ancelotti for all of this, here are my reasons why milan must find someone else....
first of all losing an unasailable lead has happened before. we saw it against deportivo and then again against psv, you would have thought ancelotti would have learnt something but he obviously hasn`t. if this had been capello or mourinho you could bet your last dollar that they`d have shored up after the first goal, revert to a 4-4-2, keep it tight close the space, but do something.
secondly why did he wait till they`d scored 3 goals to make a substitution? after the first one or at the very least the second he should have reacted to what was going on in front of him.
thirdly, he`s tactically inept.... and this has been shown against psv, deportivio and even some of the serie a minnows who we`ve drawn against thsi season. the only time i have seen him make a tactical intervention was against fiorentina when he switched to a 3-5-2 and sheva saved us once again.
it is also blatantly obvious that we rely on pirlo too much. why cant he devise new styles of play so that we can switch things up a bit during matches?! switching to differnt formations to beta other teams etc... also i think our subs offer no variety in play apart from serginho and this has to be looked at either by galliani or ancelotti.
finally i feel that his doubts of keeping things tight at the back is starting to have an effect on the players mentally. his uncertainity i think is now starting to rub off on the players and i have completely lost confidence in him.
sure his won a scudetto and a european cup, these were in the past. this is now. milan have the best squad in europe. to crawl into the semifinal and then lose after being 3-0 up at half time is simply not good enough.
id like to see either capello, mourinho or even hiddink at the helm of AC. the coach needs to be able to balance between attacking and defending therefore no wengers and no rijkaards please.....
what does anyone else think?
"We started the campaign by winning the Italian Super Cup, ended up second in the League after taking Juventus to the wire and only losing the Champions’ League on penalties after playing well.
"If someone offered me the chance now to finish second in the League and reach the European Cup Final next season I’d take it," he stated.
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This is what galliani said... well, i really disagree with that shamefull point of wiew!!!! How can our president say that its good enough that we put juve on wire and lost in the final!!! Its shameful!! Second place cant be enough for milan, ever!!! And they need to stop saying it is....
As for carlo, i believe that you know my poing of wiew that i exposed in " is carlo still in next season..." thread. Once again he shoved he is not brave and smart enough to run milan to series of wictories... ( lecce,siena,brescia,psv,juve,liverpool....) Nice way to end a season... We had 3-0 and game just couldnt be lost, there is no excuse! First half was magnificent, but we are 30-35% stronger than l'pool and still our midfielders stoped playing afted we conceded first goal. Something needed to be done to calm the situation down and stop liverpool wawe of attacks. He did nothing. Well **** this kind of managment!!
I'm too shocked and depressed to think about huge changes like that..I am so destroyed about this loss that it' s gonna take me a while to get some perspective. I just don't have the energie to analyze who's fault it is and who's to blame..
But on the other hand...maybe you're right, maybe Ancelotti is to blame. I wouldn't want to see Capello here again though, not even Mourinho cause I hate his character..I think he lacks class...but Hiddink sure looks like a good replacement..he's had success everywhere. If anybody is gonna replace Ancelotti..Hiddink would be a very good choice.
devoted_dm
26-05-2005, 18:11
Bringing in Hiddink would be a very smart move. I want Ancelotti out! This has gone too far! We have what is probably the best team in the world on paper, but what we don't have is a world class coach. I haven't been impressed by the tactical side of Milan's game in a long time, and he obviously hasn't succeeded in instilling the right kind of mentality into our players. Now it's time to go, Ancelotti. Thank you for a ruined season.
PS: I CAN NOT believe Galliani said that. What kind of an attitude is that? We haven't won **** this season. Trophies are all that matters. God damn I am angry right now.
i think it maybe the fact that there is some sentimental affection with ancelotti at the fact he also an ex player....
there is no room for sentiment (look at man utd for example they should have got rid of ferguson years ago but they won`t cos of his success in the past....and look at how little man utd have won since...)
i also think tassotti could be an option with baresi by his side seeing as hes in charge of the youth squad....
seeing as its going to be ancelotti for at least another year i hope that he makes some smart moves in the transfer market (personally i just wish he`d implement some new styles of play and get them to defend like a unit from the "baresi" days....)
Ancelotti has another year after that I agree Hiddink or Scolari (he will be free after the World Cup) would be the perfect choice but we'll probably get Van Basten instead and my problem with that is he lacks cynicism.
you people seriously don't remember what it was like after Cappello left do you. We have had the cream of europe passing through our dressing room since then and no one has delivered anything like Ancelotti. I don't think he's the best coach in the world to be honest but I think out of all the coaches in the world no one is more suited for us. You all rave on about Hiddink, this man absolutely BOMBED at has last attempt of big team management.
Again I like to remind people that Ancellotti in 4 seasons has had one signing over 10 million (Nesta), I'm pretty sure Man U, Chelsea, Inter, Juve, Barca and Madrid had 5 or 6 at least. And yet before carletto came we where rubbish, same players, no results.
Carletto is owed some real payback and most of all he is owed respect.
you people seriously don't remember what it was like after Cappello left do you. We have had the cream of europe passing through our dressing room since then and no one has delivered anything like Ancelotti. I don't think he's the best coach in the world to be honest but I think out of all the coaches in the world no one is more suited for us. You all rave on about Hiddink, this man absolutely BOMBED at has last attempt of big team management.
Again I like to remind people that Ancellotti in 4 seasons has had one signing over 10 million (Nesta), I'm pretty sure Man U, Chelsea, Inter, Juve, Barca and Madrid had 5 or 6 at least. And yet before carletto came we where rubbish, same players, no results.
Carletto is owed some real payback and most of all he is owed respect.
hold on a minute oscar tabarez was no world class coach and neither was alberto "3 man defence" zaccheroni.... the only coach i did like was fatih terim and his stay was cut short.
ancelottis glory is in the past and you would have thought things would have improved.
carlo should have learnt from his deportivo mistake!!!
you have to look at the context of where we are now and what has improved.
the only area that milan have improved is offensively, defensively we have gotten worst.
its so much more worse now cos oppostition teams will still think they have a chance even there 3-0 or 4-0 down. psychologically the team is screwed. any opposition manager losing 3-0 or 4-0 at half time will remind his team of milans losses to deportivo and liverpool, milan will no longer be feared by the opposition cos they know that if they attack them forcefully they`ll crumble!!
we need a coach who is going to win back our respect and dignity and ancelotti is not that man......
you people seriously don't remember what it was like after Cappello left do you. We have had the cream of europe passing through our dressing room since then and no one has delivered anything like Ancelotti. I don't think he's the best coach in the world to be honest but I think out of all the coaches in the world no one is more suited for us. You all rave on about Hiddink, this man absolutely BOMBED at has last attempt of big team management.
Again I like to remind people that Ancellotti in 4 seasons has had one signing over 10 million (Nesta), I'm pretty sure Man U, Chelsea, Inter, Juve, Barca and Madrid had 5 or 6 at least. And yet before carletto came we where rubbish, same players, no results.
Carletto is owed some real payback and most of all he is owed respect.
Finally someone reasonable.
lets say that milan (god forbid)sack carlo. who CAN you bring in?? hiddink is good but commited to psv. please don't tell me rikard, cuz with his style we will always end 3rd in serie A. and please don't tell me baresi or donadoni cuz they didn't proove them selves yet, and milan shouldn't just assign a coach cuz he was one of their greats. Carlo is good for now and untill capello wants to join milan i don't want to c anyone sitting on milan's coach except him!
lets say that milan (god forbid)sack carlo. who CAN you bring in?? hiddink is good but commited to psv. please don't tell me rikard, cuz with his style we will always end 3rd in serie A. and please don't tell me baresi or donadoni cuz they didn't proove them selves yet, and milan shouldn't just assign a coach cuz he was one of their greats. Carlo is good for now and untill capello wants to join milan i don't want to c anyone sitting on milan's coach except him!
Hiddink would leave PSV for Milan. As I said earlier Scolari would be another obvious choice.
coach's don't usually leave their clubs if they are both successful and comfortable that is why i don't think we can get hiddink. explain to me why scolari is better than carlo?? at best scolari is like carlo. he took a side with great individuals and let them play and ended up in glory with brazil. with portugal he lost to the underdogs ( doesn't that remind u with carlo).
i think scolari is good a choice. hes not afraid of making changes early on (he replaced ferreria with miguel and couto with andrade after the first group game at euro 2004).
hes not afraid of making "big" desicions (repalcing figo with simao in the semifinal against england)
and hes tactically better than ancelotti (look at how he brought on rui costa, postigia and simao against england, when he knew england were sitting back he knew he could go for it and increase the pressure on england and secondly understanding that if u can`t go through the middle of a team then you have to stretch the pitch and look to get around the back of the defence which saw the introduction of simao...)
he was never afraid of making big descions with gremio in brazil and neither with the brazilian national team.
he knew how to win at all costs
scolari gets my vote....
Such changes done by scolari don't always work. do u guys remember how carlo was hailed last season when he braught in max against lazio last season. but if max didn't score the goal he would have been dubbed as stupid. and the thing about scolari having the guts to change a player don't forget that carlo benched RUI for kaka when some coachs might have waited some more time for such a transition especially that kaka was a kid and an unknown quantity. and about streatching out games. didn't u c what he did against fiorentina by introducing serginho. and he did the same thing against liverpool and it almost worked if it wasn't 4 some bad finished by jdt and sheva.
Carlo may not be a tactical genius when compared to mourinho or capello but he is good and milan is not in the place for changes.
zlatanov
26-05-2005, 21:28
secondly why did he wait till they`d scored 3 goals to make a substitution? after the first one or at the very least the second he should have reacted to what was going on in front of him.
I will comment on this part only for its lack of logic is pretty much ubiquitous for the rest of your "glorious" post. I would gladly take it all apart but I am painfully bored with discussing the CL final after spending most of yesterday and today doing exactly that.
Did you even watch the game? Liverpool scored their 3 goals in 6-7 minutes. How do you see a substitution - and this didn't have to be a time-wasting sub but a tactically oriented/shrude one - to be made for this short amount of time. Milan started the second half right from where they had stopped the first - the first 10 min or so we came close to the 4-0 on several occasions and nothing, absolutely nothing served as a clue that the team was about to literary fall apart in a matter of a few minutes.
A tactically shrewd sub takes time to execute - the player has to warm-up for at least a couple of minutes (actually it usually takes at least 15-20min for a proper warm-up but I am taking matters to the extreme here) and after that it would take 3-4 more minutes until the 4th official and the ref get their acts together and make/authorize the substitution - checking cleats, players' lists, waiting for the game to be stopped, etc, etc.
Simple 101 math should tell you that when a team scores 3 goals in 6 minutes there is hardly enough time for a coach to react with a proper substitution - meaning not just making one for time-wasting. What made matters even less predicatble for Carlo was that right before Liverpool started their incredible comeback, Milan was as close to scoring for 4-0 as it ever got during the whole game and there were hardly any worrying signs for what was about to follow.
Of course one could argue that Carlo should have adjusted the tactics according the new line-up Benitez used but then again - Liverpool's new tactics weren't giving any signs at all that matters on the field were about to change so dramatically. I do believe that it wasn't Benitez's new tactics but Milan loosing their heads and literary falling apart that did the damage.
triniman
26-05-2005, 21:40
i think we should get rid of some of our supporters.....think that is a good idea too??.....anyway....just by looking at the date when some of you joined i know you will not be here to long....some of you are what i call seasonal jumpers....and by the end of summer you would have moved on.....so enjoy your stay and don't forget to close the door behind you when u leave
zlatanov
26-05-2005, 21:49
i think we should get rid of some of our supporters.....think that is a good idea too??.....anyway....just by looking at the date when some of you joined i know you will not be here to long....some of you are what i call seasonal jumpers....and by the end of summer you would have moved on.....so enjoy your stay and don't forget to close the door behind you when u leave
Exactly what I was thinking - those dates often tell a lot more than a 100 posts.
Anyway, I think you forgot the quotation marks when you called certain people supporters.
i never noticed the number of 2005 join dates on first reading.
i think we should get rid of some of our supporters.....think that is a good idea too??.....anyway....just by looking at the date when some of you joined i know you will not be here to long....some of you are what i call seasonal jumpers....and by the end of summer you would have moved on.....so enjoy your stay and don't forget to close the door behind you when u leave
i was waiting for some smart arse comment on my arrival....just because i joined today does not mean i havent supported them all my life.
i first saw them when my uncle took me to watch milan vs roma in 1990.
since then ive seen them three times, twice in italy vs verona (weah wonder goal) and juventus 2 years ago (sheva and inzaghi) also i saw them in the champions league final at old trafford.
oh and ive visited milanello once with my uncle too.
whenever italy play in britain i always go and watch them euro 96, world cup qualifier at wembley in 1998, euro 2000 qualifiers against wales and i am going to watch them against scotland at hampden in september.
so dont even think about questioning my commitment to milan or italy....
Ancelotti must not leave, this is really getting ridiculous..!! In three 3 seasons we have won 1 Champions League, 1 Serie A, 1 European Super, 1 Coppa Italia. To be honest I think that is pretty good.
It is not his fault we lost a 3 goal lead - and please remember the match: 9,9 times out of 10 we would have won. We had chances for 7-8 goals at least. It was not not our night. That is football - it happens. But it is only logical that we are all very disappointed.
And I have to go for Triniman's view also - some of you guys in here are season supports, only follwing the wave of Milan's success in recent years..
About Galliani's comments. What would you think would happen, if he in the press says that the season has been a total failure? Never make any negative comments in the press. A smart move....
Milan will be back next season - and so will Ancelotti...!!
Maltese Charlie
27-05-2005, 02:06
Some interesting news reported by (ANSA)
(I try to make a very short translation)
Berlusconi confirms Ancelotti but his dream is still Capello's comeback, if only he is free.
Excluding Capello which his return seems very far away, there are no other outclass coaches on the market. And when Ancelotti's contract expires, the team pass to Tassotti.
Berlusconi conferma Ancelotti
Gio 26 Mag, 9:12 PM
(ANSA) - ROMA, 26 MAG - Berlusconi conferma la fiducia ad Ancelotti ma il suo sogno resta un clamoroso ritorno di Fabio Capello, 'se solo fosse libero...' A meno di 24 ore dalla "notte delle beffe" di Istanbul il presidente, nei colloqui di queste ore, appare amareggiato ma anche impegnato per il futuro dei rossoneri. Escluso Capello, il cui ritorno appare lontano, non ci sono altri allenatori "fuoriclasse" sul mercato. E a scadenza del contratto di Ancelotti, la squadra potrebbe passare al vice Tassotti.
Why do these things happen when we lose, where some people all of a sudden want to just axe anything and everything. Listen!!!!! Sacking Ancelotti is as ridiculous as us insisting that we sell Sheva or Nesta or Gattuso or MALDINI for that matter! 3 goals in six minutes is not a managerial mistake. It is something that cannot be explained. BTW it was the players on the field and not the coach. I'm one who is willing to forgive what happened last night as long as the team develope and learn from this. My friend HITMAN you hit it on the mark! 4 silverware in 3 years is a very good record. Sorry MATNAT but with all due respect I have to disagree with you at this moment in time. Where we need to judge Ancelotti from this time on is what and how he does with the team to recover from this episode next season. Then by all means what you are saying will hold water and should be deeply and seriously considered or even acted upon without hesitation.
FORZA MILAN!
sehnsucht79
27-05-2005, 05:33
Oh for foks sake milanistas. Carlo has done some superb things for Milan. I know he has done a few mistakes this year but COME ON, finishing 2nd in serie a and runners up in CL all in one season sounds bloody good to me. Plus the 1st half of the pool match tells you what Milan under Carlo is capable of! He might've committed some tactical errors but surely he deserves at least one more year with Milan for all that hes done??
If you cannot accept that sometimes things wont go your way with Milan, dont support Milan at all. The whole point of being a fan is to be there for the club and its staff & players when they need it most. Ancelotti has done more good than bad to Milan ... show a little bit of faith.
it seems as if lyon are interested in ancelotti and have made enquires, this from the channel 4 website
Lyon reveal Ancelotti interest Friday 27 May, 2005
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Lyon President Jean-Michel Aulas says he would consider making a move for under-fire Milan boss Carlo Ancelotti.
Aulas is trying to find a replacement for out-going Coach Paul Le Guen and said on Friday that he had already made enquiries regarding Ancelotti’s availability.
"Ancelotti is obviously an interesting Coach," Aulas said. "But you have to take into account the financial side and also the language barrier.
"He doesn’t speak French, but he talks English. I have made enquiries."
Ancelotti has enjoyed great success at Milan but after seeing his side pipped to both the Serie A and Champions' League crowns, could be set to leave the San Siro.
"It is possible for a Coach who doesn’t speak the language to get results, look at Benitez," Aulas continued.
"What he has done is exceptional. We could also have a Coach who speaks Portuguese with all our Brazilian players, but he must also speak English."
Aulas is hoping to unveil the new boss on Sunday after Lyon’s final game of the season, but admitted he might need "a few more days".
Lyon are unlikely to land Ancelotti though. If the Italian does leave Milan then he is expected to join either Real Madrid or Roma.
Why do these things happen when we lose, where some people all of a sudden want to just axe anything and everything. Listen!!!!! Sacking Ancelotti is as ridiculous as us insisting that we sell Sheva or Nesta or Gattuso or MALDINI for that matter! 3 goals in six minutes is not a managerial mistake. It is something that cannot be explained. BTW it was the players on the field and not the coach. I'm one who is willing to forgive what happened last night as long as the team develope and learn from this. My friend HITMAN you hit it on the mark! 4 silverware in 3 years is a very good record. Sorry MATNAT but with all due respect I have to disagree with you at this moment in time. Where we need to judge Ancelotti from this time on is what and how he does with the team to recover from this episode next season. Then by all means what you are saying will hold water and should be deeply and seriously considered or even acted upon without hesitation.
FORZA MILAN!
but shouldn`t he have LEARNT about throwing away leads against deportivo and nearly against psv?
but shouldn`t he have LEARNT about throwing away leads against deportivo and nearly against psv?
This is true. Yet we won the Super Cup and Scudetto. Hard to sack a coach that did that.
heidi azalea
27-05-2005, 06:07
Holy Cow ! Kicked off Carletto ? How come ???? :5roma:
I've said this in another thread, but to those ppl who're angry with Carletto, read this again !
"Abt Milan attitude, to recover from it is no need to change coaches but to motivate everyone, from players to CEO. The mentality should be shifted. A good motivational sessions monthly or weekly or twice a week is important as good training- seminars, therapy, or counseling to clear up and release any remaining emotional issues. It's weird to say it here, but I found out it's worked, after I read Robert Pires's book abt himself and how he got recovered from his emotional issues at LOM and got back his sharp instinct and best performance.
And I'm also be glad if diciplinary got restrict again in Milan camp."
Again, we need no changes for our coach. He's the best for us. Forgive him. What we need is releasing any mental-emotional issues. Get it ?
:1old:
triniman
27-05-2005, 06:19
i was waiting for some smart arse comment on my arrival....just because i joined today does not mean i havent supported them all my life.
i first saw them when my uncle took me to watch milan vs roma in 1990.
since then ive seen them three times, twice in italy vs verona (weah wonder goal) and juventus 2 years ago (sheva and inzaghi) also i saw them in the champions league final at old trafford.
oh and ive visited milanello once with my uncle too.
whenever italy play in britain i always go and watch them euro 96, world cup qualifier at wembley in 1998, euro 2000 qualifiers against wales and i am going to watch them against scotland at hampden in september.
so dont even think about questioning my commitment to milan or italy....
i stand by what i said....for you to even come and suggest that we sack one of our most successful coaches becuase of 6 minutes of madness......that alone is insane....
I can say with most certainity that this happens every year...we get an influx of new members at the end or near the end of the season ....out of that we get maybe 10 good ones who show their colours and make smart and INTELLIGENT comments regarding milan ...the rest come , stir up the bee hive and leave soon after......
which you fall into...time will tell...me personally i already have my own hunch...along with most other people in here will tell you.....
and trust me as far as my smart "arse" answer goes....that was just a broad attack...i have not even begun to tear apart your comments...i could take an entire day doing that and destroying almost every word you said...but i have better things to do with my time that to come here and argue with someone here who's lifespan here in MM will probably be shorter than that of a mosquito
seeing as its going to be ancelotti for at least another year i hope that he makes some smart moves in the transfer market (personally i just wish he`d implement some new styles of play and get them to defend like a unit from the "baresi" days....)
To give you some credit, I at least agree with what you said here. He has at least another year with us. Right now like I said before, you calling for him to be sacked is a bit too early. As far as sentiment... no I'm not supproting him becase of sentiment. I support him because he has shown results in his 3 year stint with us. This loss to Liverpool was nothing short of a miracle or a spectacular disaster. 3 goals in six minutes is not a coachng error. Bad luck combined with a rejuvinated determined team that defied all odds withstanding. I take nothing away from their win nor give total disappointment to our team.
sehnsucht79
27-05-2005, 06:30
Oh, God, get it in your heads - it was just freaking six minutes of insanity on the pitch. It had nothing to do with Carlo. yes Carlo should've done some correct tactical decisions but those vital six minutes were out of his hands. I do believe Milan were superior up until those six minutes. Whatever happened there was beyond him IMO. Do you know how many 'Pool fans are complimenting Milan for their spirit in the final irrespective of some lacklustred penalties?? PLEASE. You can see Milan's strength in the final even if they lost in a terrifying manner ... dont take that strength away. You will be doing so by sacking Carlo
Oh, God, get it in your heads - it was just freaking six minutes of insanity on the pitch. It had nothing to do with Carlo. yes Carlo should've done some correct tactical decisions but those vital six minutes were out of his hands. I do believe Milan were superior up until those six minutes. Whatever happened there was beyond him IMO. Do you know how many 'Pool fans are complimenting Milan for their spirit in the final irrespective of some lacklustred penalties?? PLEASE. You can see Milan's strength in the final even if they lost in a terrifying manner ... dont take that strength away. You will be doing so by sacking Carlo
Whose head are you talking about??? Not me huh???
sehnsucht79
27-05-2005, 06:45
No, no not yours. Those who want Carlo out.
i stand by what i said....for you to even come and suggest that we sack one of our most successful coaches becuase of 6 minutes of madness......that alone is insane....
I can say with most certainity that this happens every year...we get an influx of new members at the end or near the end of the season ....out of that we get maybe 10 good ones who show their colours and make smart and INTELLIGENT comments regarding milan ...the rest come , stir up the bee hive and leave soon after......
which you fall into...time will tell...me personally i already have my own hunch...along with most other people in here will tell you.....
and trust me as far as my smart "arse" answer goes....that was just a broad attack...i have not even begun to tear apart your comments...i could take an entire day doing that and destroying almost every word you said...but i have better things to do with my time that to come here and argue with someone here who's lifespan here in MM will probably be shorter than that of a mosquito
yo mr Moderator, if u read my first post you`d have seen that i have not based this argument solely on the "six minutes of insanity"......
ive made comments on his tactical inability, lack of squad rotation, his insistence on one style of play (the team revolves around pirlo performing) etc....
i could argue all day about how poor ancelotti has become since old trafford.
i could talk all day about how a milan team of the past would not have caved in so easily....
for me ancelotti is lucky to have a fine squad of players.. lets be honest with that squad he shouldn`t be scraping through against psv nor giving away 3-0 leads....
this is another report from an english based journalist who fronts an italian football program in england.. read the comments of his and of the ITALIAN press....
"Italian press play the blame game
James Richardson examines the search for a scapegoat in the wake of Milan's astonishing capitulation to Liverpool in Istanbul and discovers the club's owner Silvio Berlusconi is "2738% certain" his manager, Carlo Ancelotti will stay
Friday May 27, 2005
You've got to feel sorry for Milan. One of Europe's truly great clubs, they dominated Wednesday's Champions League showdown for 113 of it's 120 minutes, only to see themselves defeated by Jerzy Dudek's Bruce Grobbelaar impression. Talk about adding insult to injury.
Honour to Liverpool and all that, but naturally, the flurry of second half goals that manager Carlo Ancelotti called "our seven minutes of madness" dominated the reaction to the game in Italy. "It's Milan Suicide!" read Il Messagero's front page, and that was one of the cheerier ones. "When Paolo Maldini scored, it seemed the work of destiny," wrote their bewildered correspondent. "There's been a Maldini in each of Milan's finals, starting with Papa Cesare in 1963. But this time fate was not on his side".
Article continues
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"Milan The Heartbreakers," mourned the Corriere Dello Sport. "You can lose the title, but not like this!" Meanwhile, a wild-eyed Gazzetta Dello sport led with "Awake In A Nightmare!"
Yup, in Italy it wasn't so much Liverpool's inc-Red-ible comeback as Milan's Red'n'Blackout. "Milan made the worst mistake of all" explained the Gazzetta. "They thought it was all over at half-time. They forgot they had English opponents and the English never give up". There was more of this bulldog spirit business over in La Repubblica, who opined: "Liverpool emerged from the wreckage of the first half like Churchill amidst the rubble of wartime London, hand still clenched in a victory V".
Lozenges aside, Italy is asking who's to blame for this collapse? Milan's goalie Dida bears some responsibility for the second goal, and European Footballer of the Year Andriy Shevchenko should certainly have put the game away in the dying minutes of extra time ("I could take that shot 10,000 times, and it'd go in every time," rued Andriy after the final whistle). But the man who cops the real heat in the papers is manager Carlo Ancelotti. "Questions will be asked of him," warned La Gazzetta, helpfully posing two crackers themselves. Firstly, why did Ancelotti delay so long before reacting to Liverpool's half-time switch to a five-man midfield? It was, the paper argued, a move which "allowed them to cut Milan in two". Secondly, given Milan's much vaunted Big Game experience, why do they lose the plot so often?
It was little more than a year ago, after all, that Milan set the previous benchmark for self-destructing in a European campaign when they threw away a 4-1 first leg lead in that quarter final with Deportivo, losing at La Coruna 4-0, and crashing out of the competition in the process. Ancelotti rejects the comparison however. "The Liverpool game was very different game to past matches," he explained. "This time we were in control from start to finish, apart from those seven minutes - but that's football. Seven minutes is enough to cost you the Champions League."
They may yet cost Ancelotti more than that, because patience with him is running thin (warning: disappointing pun ahoy). Like Istanbul itself, Milan is now divided by the "boss-for-us" question. Owner Silvio Berlusconi made his thoughts clear pre-game when he warned that defeat against Liverpool "would make this an unsatisfactory season", and we can all imagine what that means (think: floor sliding back and spittle forming in corners of piranha's mouths). Still, barely had Milan touched down in Italy on Thursday than Milan's vice-president was declaring that "Carlo will stay, I'm 2738% certain of it".
It's an impressive figure, but the papers still suspect a change is on the way. As the Corriere puts it: "this was too big a blow for everything to just stay the same." Ancelotti's reaction was clam: "We'll see come September whose bench I'm sitting on," he mused. His habit of finishing second (and seconds, by the looks of him) has already cost him another top level job at Juventus, but this time his greatest ally may be the lack of suitable replacements - Milan have long had the hots for Barcelona boss Frank Rijkaard, but the Catalans are unlikely to let him go. Another mooted replacement, Carlo's current sidekick and former Milan teammate, Mauro Tassoti, is still deemed too inexperienced.
But even if the papers are full of doom and gloom, Milan have much to be proud of post-Liverpool. They laid on a masterly performance for almost all of Wednesday's match, ironically shining much brighter this time in defeat than they did in victory two years ago at Old Trafford. For a team that spoke before the game of the importance of entertaining their audience, that's some consolation. It's not like a winning the Champions League trophy or anything, but at least it's something. "
at least the ITALIAN press seem to agree with some of my original comments....
All I'm going to say on this matter is....Ancelotti makes some of the most idiotic decsions I've ever witnessed. I do not understand his sudden benching of players with no explanation, why he'll play sub-standard players, all of it. Am I tired of it? I have been since Day One. Have we won stuff with him? Yes, somehow we have. I guess the question the people in charge need to discuss is....is what happened acceptable? Some of you say it was 6 minutes of insanity. Well, sadly I've watched far too many times when the opposition has our game plan figured out and yet we do nothing to change, no subs are made, good players are benched, etc. I'm fed up and that's MY opinion.
But even if the papers are full of doom and gloom, Milan have much to be proud of post-Liverpool. They laid on a masterly performance for almost all of Wednesday's match, ironically shining much brighter this time in defeat than they did in victory two years ago at Old Trafford. For a team that spoke before the game of the importance of entertaining their audience, that's some consolation. It's not like a winning the Champions League trophy or anything, but at least it's something. "
I'll agree with this part too! :1ole:
All I'm going to say on this matter is....Ancelotti makes some of the most idiotic decsions I've ever witnessed. I do not understand his sudden benching of players with no explanation, why he'll play sub-standard players, all of it. Am I tired of it? I have been since Day One. Have we won stuff with him? Yes, somehow we have. I guess the question the people in charge need to discuss is....is what happened acceptable? Some of you say it was 6 minutes of insanity. Well, sadly I've watched far too many times when the opposition has our game plan figured out and yet we do nothing to change, no subs are made, good players are benched, etc. I'm fed up and that's MY opinion.
im glad someone on this board sees where i`m coming from.....
and Kui i know where your coming from, but i havent based my arguement on just those six minutes of insanity but on ancelotti`s whole tenure at AC.....
All I'm going to say on this matter is....Ancelotti makes some of the most idiotic decsions I've ever witnessed. I do not understand his sudden benching of players with no explanation, why he'll play sub-standard players, all of it. Am I tired of it? I have been since Day One. Have we won stuff with him? Yes, somehow we have. I guess the question the people in charge need to discuss is....is what happened acceptable? Some of you say it was 6 minutes of insanity. Well, sadly I've watched far too many times when the opposition has our game plan figured out and yet we do nothing to change, no subs are made, good players are benched, etc. I'm fed up and that's MY opinion.
Well at least you and MATNAT are honest in forthright in your opinions. I will unfortunately disagree somewhat. Somewhat because I too question some of his decisions. I do have to say though that he has a very special bond with the team players. Not in a sense that would compromise his professionalism as a coach, but he has calm figure that doesnt give the team a sense of disharmony. Is he playing favorites??? I dont think so. I think he's fielding players with what he got. We need a more dependable backup squad that will not always sit on the bench. This is why he always has to field the same guys til they just got tired and lost match fitness. I'd like to see a Milan where you can field an entire different team from the previous match and still have the confidence the team will pull through with a win. He is limited to doing that at this time.
I have to agree witht he last two posters, it was 6 minutes of insanity ! What if the game had ended in a win after the kicks....would those of you who wants to pitch Ancelotti still feel that way or would you be praising him for keeping the players heads in the game. There are many reasons to replace a coach...this game is not one of them.
Unfortunately on the flipside, in other sports such as hockey and football (American) a coach is often let go after a game of such importance is lost, when it should have been an easy win.
I have to agree witht he last two posters, it was 6 minutes of insanity ! What if the game had ended in a win after the kicks....would those of you who wants to pitch Ancelotti still feel that way or would you be praising him for keeping the players heads in the game. There are many reasons to replace a coach...this game is not one of them.
Unfortunately on the flipside, in other sports such as hockey and football (American) a coach is often let go after a game of such importance is lost, when it should have been an easy win.
Lost??? Sometimes not even after a loss. There have been coaches let go after a title win. Remember Capello at Madrid??? Yeah I know, he didnt get sacked but coaches like these were shown their hats when they walked out the door.
ancelotti should stay where is the loyalty with some of ye?
ancelotti should stay where is the loyalty with some of ye?
theres no room for loyalty if it means milan doing better surely?
look at what loyalty has done to man utd after fergusons decision not to retire. its not been a bundle of joy really for his team and i`m sure most man utd fans would agree...
milancampioni
27-05-2005, 07:41
I believe that Carlo must go, I think that a new coach will change the feelings of all the players on lockerrooms... Carlo is a looser, last 2 seasons Milan had some very bad football nights, like last year with Depor and this year at semifinal... I think that on final, Dida is responsible for the two goals....
I believe that Carlo must go, I think that a new coach will change the feelings of all the players on lockerrooms... Carlo is a looser, last 2 seasons Milan had some very bad football nights, like last year with Depor and this year at semifinal... I think that on final, Dida is responsible for the two goals....
i maybe blame dida for one of the goals but his performances overall this season have saved milan on so many occasions
sehnsucht79
27-05-2005, 07:45
Both you and Debs have valid points, but I think Milan should still keep hold of Ancelotti. He has made some bad, bad decisions this year but he has a good foundation for the team ... Replacing him will only bring disrupt to the team. I am sure Carlo learnt a lot from this season and will use this to Milan's strength next season despite some arguing he hasnt learnt his lessons because this was a repeat of the Deportivo case.
I believe that Carlo must go, I think that a new coach will change the feelings of all the players on lockerrooms... ....
Are you insinuating that the players don't respect him? I'm not challenging the statement, but curious as to whether or not this is how you feel.
Both you and Debs have valid points, but I think Milan should still keep hold of Ancelotti. He has made some bad, bad decisions this year but he has a good foundation for the team ... Replacing him will only bring disrupt to the team. I am sure Carlo learnt a lot from this season and will use this to Milan's strength next season despite some arguing he hasnt learnt his lessons because this was a repeat of the Deportivo case.
True! If it aint broke, dont fix it. It does need a bit tweaking though. More balance in the formation and better player rotation reinforced with an effective acquisition of the right players. Gattusso and Pirlo need to work extra hard this summer because although they are very strong in their talent, Pirlo (passing and playmaking) Rhinno (ball winning and determination), they lack what each other has. It is throwing our team massively off balance IMO. Does any one not see this??? Let me know if you even disagree. I can handle it.
FORZA MILAN!
Hasan Rossonero
27-05-2005, 07:54
What ever happened to loyalty. We are perhaps going through the toughest time in recent memory (relegation excepted). It was one of those things. Yes it has happened against Deportivo but there were several differences about the way our collapse transpired.
Firstly, we only failed to play for a mere six minutes and perhaps paid a very unfair price. How often have we seen teams switch off for a while. Maybe the other gets a goal, or they hit the post or they get caught offside.
To pay for complacency in the currency of cruel, cruel luck, is the worst of all. Then, for us, as loyal Milanisti, to jump on our coach, Shevchenko (without whom we would not even be there) borders on treachery.
Stick with Milan or don't. Even Silvio Berlusconi said that he deemed the game as unfair. But life is unfair. Berlusconi also said that he would never sack Ancelotti. So, then, why should we let heads roll.
Ancelotti, from that obscure day we won against Torino in 2002, has been simply magnificent. He has given us two finals in three years. We have to thank him. Real Madrid, Juve, Man U, Barca and many more have fallen by the wayside.
It was Liverpool's destiny. And what is important is not that we lost but to take stock of how that happened and bounce back.
Milan cannot win trophies every year.
Forza Milan! Frazie per avermi fatto Rossonero!
P.S. please, it is Milan not AC. Just call them Milan.
True! If it aint broke, dont fix it. It does need a bit tweaking though. More balance in the formation and better player rotation reinforced with an effective acquisition of the right players. Gattusso and Pirlo need to work extra hard this summer because although they are very strong in their talent, Pirlo (passing and playmaking) Rhinno (ball winning and determination), they lack what each other has. It is throwing our team massively off balance IMO. Does any one not see this??? Let me know if you even disagree. I can handle it.
FORZA MILAN!
the problem with milan tactically lies in midfield.
the back four is fine as is the front two, but the four in the middle seems to find defending a problem.
i cant understand why whenever milan lose the ball they just dont revert to a straight 4-4-2 (seedorf -pirlo-gattuso-kaka) and then when they attack revert to a diamond formation... what do you think?
zlatanov
27-05-2005, 07:55
Both you and Debs have valid points, but I think Milan should still keep hold of Ancelotti. He has made some bad, bad decisions this year but he has a good foundation for the team ... Replacing him will only bring disrupt to the team. I am sure Carlo learnt a lot from this season and will use this to Milan's strength next season despite some arguing he hasnt learnt his lessons because this was a repeat of the Deportivo case.
Sehnsucht79, I would gladly "exchange" you for several Milan "fans" of the 2005 class. Too bad you are a juventina. :firedev:
Hasan Rossonero
27-05-2005, 07:55
What ever happened to loyalty. We are perhaps going through the toughest time in recent memory (relegation excepted). It was one of those things. Yes it has happened against Deportivo but there were several differences about the way our collapse transpired.
Firstly, we only failed to play for a mere six minutes and perhaps paid a very unfair price. How often have we seen teams switch off for a while. Maybe the other gets a goal, or they hit the post or they get caught offside.
To pay for complacency in the currency of cruel, cruel luck, is the worst of all. Then, for us, as loyal Milanisti, to jump on our coach, Shevchenko (without whom we would not even be there) borders on treachery.
Stick with Milan or don't. Even Silvio Berlusconi said that he deemed the game as unfair. But life is unfair. Berlusconi also said that he would never sack Ancelotti. So, then, why should we let heads roll.
Ancelotti, from that obscure day we won against Torino in 2002, has been simply magnificent. He has given us two finals in three years. We have to thank him. Real Madrid, Juve, Man U, Barca and many more have fallen by the wayside.
It was Liverpool's destiny. And what is important is not that we lost but to take stock of how that happened and bounce back.
Milan cannot win trophies every year.
Forza Milan! Frazie per avermi fatto Rossonero!
P.S. please, it is Milan not AC. Just call them Milan.
Sorry Grazie per avermi fatto Rossonero!
Grenoli_Trio
27-05-2005, 08:23
I have to confess that I do not like Ancelotti so much. It is hard to make you believe but everything i thought about this year came true unfortunately. It was so obvious that we needed replacments for Cafu and Pirlo. We all saw how Cafu played PSV, left side was dominated by Lee when Cafu seemed to be very tired. and what happened to us when Pirlo was injured last month?
And big trauma in La Coruna against Deportivo. We still suffer the result of this game. We cannot understand the matches last 90 minutes and we naturally fail.
Some people in this thread told me it was not our luck to defeat PSV while they were playing so well. And told me the winner always deserves it. And now i remind them their word. This is one of the worst defeats in our history. And as u said, Liverpool, the winner deserved it? No, sorry but i do not think so. We played the greatest football of this year. So what is wrong with Ancelotti? Actually, Carlo did really well that night. But the problem is caused by his lack of motivation. Liverpool's left back Traore said that Milan had already started to celebrate the match in halftime. You would allow your players to behave like that? A team who lost against ;Deportivo so dramatically could not learn the matches last 90 minutes?
We still feel the trauma of Deportivo and something must change before it is too late. I watch Milan for years, Deportivo and Liverpool were the biggest defeats i have ever seen. I think these are enough more than anything else.
heidi azalea
27-05-2005, 08:25
I have to confess that I do not like Ancelotti so much. It is hard to make you believe but everything i thought about this year came true unfortunately. It was so obvious that we needed replacments for Cafu and Pirlo. We all saw how Cafu played PSV, left side was dominated by Lee when Cafu seemed to be very tired. and what happened to us when Pirlo was injured last month?
And big trauma in La Coruna against Deportivo. We still suffer the result of this game. We cannot understand the matches last 90 minutes and we naturally fail.
Some people in this thread told me it was not our luck to defeat PSV while they were playing so well. And told me the winner always deserves it. And now i remind them their word. This is one of the worst defeats in our history. And as u said, Liverpool, the winner deserved it? No, sorry but i do not think so. We played the greatest football of this year. So what is wrong with Ancelotti? Actually, Carlo did really well that night. But the problem is caused by his lack of motivation. Liverpool's left back Traore said that Milan had already started to celebrate the match in halftime. You would allow your players to behave like that? A team who lost against ;Deportivo so dramatically could not learn the matches last 90 minutes?
We still feel the trauma of Deportivo and something must change before it is too late. I watch Milan for years, Deportivo and Liverpool were the biggest defeats i have ever seen. I think these are enough more than anything else.
Sorry, still stick to my previous opinion, lad : players and the team need a theraphy for Riazor trauma, not changing the coach.... Carletto is okay, IMO there're no need for any new coach for Milan....
Some of you have commented on what I posted, a few of you have said thanks for being forthcoming with my thoughts. Truth is, if you know me at all, you also know I've never taken to Ancelotti for a number of reasons, the least of which being the way he even came into the team and had to pitch a fit about it not being the squad he wanted or the fact that we flat out stopped scoring when he took over. I simply do not like him and his tactics or lack thereof, and those tactics include dumb decisions. Yes, I'm forthcoming with sharing that b/c even tho I'm a supporter it doesn't mean I have to blindly love and worship a coach I don't agree with. It has nothing to do with LOYALTY, but everything to do with wanting THE BEST for my team. Ever since Ancelotti took over, I've had my doubts that he's THE BEST solution for us. We've won despite the coach, that's how I've looked at the situation many times in the past few years. So thanks, but I don't need my loyalty questioned, b/c I'm voicing my thoughts and doubts. :5guitar:
milancampioni
27-05-2005, 08:51
He have players with attacking characteristics and this coach made them to play defence.... I only tha teams needs clear minds...
the problem with milan tactically lies in midfield.
the back four is fine as is the front two, but the four in the middle seems to find defending a problem.
i cant understand why whenever milan lose the ball they just dont revert to a straight 4-4-2 (seedorf -pirlo-gattuso-kaka) and then when they attack revert to a diamond formation... what do you think?
Glad you asked. Well the game is so quick, I think with a counter-offense style the transition and initiative to move the ball is going to come too slow. I like a diamond formation that is strong and balanced both offense and defensively.
Here is a problem. In a diamond formation you already saw what I have written about Rhino and Pirlo. If Rhino could start plays and shoot as well as being a very dependable defensive midfielder, he could stay in the current position he's at or maybe move into Pirlo anchor spot. The problem is that Pirlo is the best anchor player but he is not near as dependable defensively as Rhino is. See currently we have a strong "defense" area of the midfiled that should be more offensive and a strong offensive part of the midfield where it should be more defensive.
Dont get me wrong cause I do like Gattuso but he is not in the correct part of the field that will bring balance to a team. He is a defender trapped in a small midfielders body. I dont know why not have him play right back where Cafu plays and they have to fight for that spot or at least have a very dependable and strong rotation between them. That way we can open up that spot to someone who can pass and shoot, Pirlo is safe although he should have a better backup. This has been bugging me for some seasons now and I'd wish there was more options available that can help the coach with this problem.
The 442 formation will limit Kaka's ability to be a creative player behind the 2 strikers. I think it can pulls him out of the whole game winning strategy.
Hello Debs! Nice to see you around:delol: :gonova:
Ancelotti will have no more than next season to prove that can do soemthing about this repetitive failure to kill the game when the team has a comfortable lead by more than 2 or 3 goals. It is a shame to see how our team to crumble and lose under pressure like this.
Though I doubt he will be able to make thing turn around, for now I'll give him the benefits of doubts.
ACMILAN1983
27-05-2005, 09:52
Though I have criticised Ancelotti at times, I do believe overall he is a positive coach at the club.
All I want to say is, I have absoloutly no problem with the way he dealt with the final. Tactically, he was very rarely off the ball and had the PLAYERS not failed completely during the 6mins, this conversation would be non-existent.
Though I have criticised Ancelotti at times, I do believe overall he is a positive coach at the club.
All I want to say is, I have absoloutly no problem with the way he dealt with the final. Tactically, he was very rarely off the ball and the PLAYERS not failed completely during the 6mins, this conversation would be non-existent.
So true! Everything is reactionary to some here. It is sooo easy to speak after the fact and then use this incident to supposedly reinforce one's own earlier opinion of this player or that coach. This conversation would definitely be non-existent.
Glad you asked. Well the game is so quick, I think with a counter-offense style the transition and initiative to move the ball is going to come too slow. I like a diamond formation that is strong and balanced both offense and defensively.
Here is a problem. In a diamond formation you already saw what I have written about Rhino and Pirlo. If Rhino could start plays and shoot as well as being a very dependable defensive midfielder, he could stay in the current position he's at or maybe move into Pirlo anchor spot. The problem is that Pirlo is the best anchor player but he is not near as dependable defensively as Rhino is. See currently we have a strong "defense" area of the midfiled that should be more offensive and a strong offensive part of the midfield where it should be more defensive.
Dont get me wrong cause I do like Gattuso but he is not in the correct part of the field that will bring balance to a team. He is a defender trapped in a small midfielders body. I dont know why not have him play right back where Cafu plays and they have to fight for that spot or at least have a very dependable and strong rotation between them. That way we can open up that spot to someone who can pass and shoot, Pirlo is safe although he should have a better backup. This has been bugging me for some seasons now and I'd wish there was more options available that can help the coach with this problem.
The 442 formation will limit Kaka's ability to be a creative player behind the 2 strikers. I think it can pulls him out of the whole game winning strategy.
gattuso is needed in the midfield and not the defence first of all. play gattuso at right back and theres no "ball winner" in the centre of the park.
personally i think milan should revert to how brazil played at usa 94.
they lined up as a 4-4-2 but in all honesty it involved the two central midfielders (dunga and mauro silva) in deep holding roles with leonardo/zinho further forward but covering from the left hand side to the centee of the pitch and rai/mazinho covering the right hand side to the center of the pitch.
i envisage pirlo and gattuso in the holding roles (dunga and mauro silva) with kaka on the right hand side and (for now) seedorf ont he left hand side.
this way milan retain 4-4-2. gattuso and pirlo in the middle. the only difference is that instead of kaka roaming centrally his area of the pitch is from the midlle to the right hand side only with seedorf covering form the left to the middle.
the defence is still the same with attacking full backs and strikers operate as normal.
i think real madrid also used this formation a while ago. they used zidane on the left and figo on the right with helguera and beckham in the middle
..................sheva........................crespo...................
seedorf-------------------><-----------------------kaka
.............................pirlo and gattuso...........................
maldini..............nesta..................stam...................cafu
.....................................dida.....................................
what do you think?
The problem is the attacking wing back is only effective on the right side. Maldini is no where near the potential as he was in his youth. Like I said Gattuso and Pirlo need to hone and broaden their playing skills. Pirlo defensively and Gattuso offensively. I really dont like this imbalance it is hindering us both ways.
Grenoli_Trio
27-05-2005, 11:01
Yes, I believe it is time to change the tactics, formation, too. Any team in the world memorised us so well.
Milanfan_86
27-05-2005, 12:33
Let's give Ancellotti a chance shall we. Don't judge him. I think let's see how we will get on next season with him in charge. If we start badly then we could look for a new manager but at the moment it's fine. I just love to know what Ancellotti said in the changing room's at half time with us being 3-0 up.
Whilst it would be stupid to sack Carlo on the back of this result. After the events of Deportivo and more harmufully Wednesday night i do not think he will ever be able to bring confidence to this team. It was only 6 minutes of madness on our parts but this defeat will have a damaging effect on the players which Carlo will not be able to pick them up from.
Whilst it would be stupid to sack Carlo on the back of this result. After the events of Deportivo and more harmufully Wednesday night i do not think he will ever be able to bring confidence to this team. It was only 6 minutes of madness on our parts but this defeat will have a damaging effect on the players which Carlo will not be able to pick them up from.
For the most part, I agree. This was too much. We had good fortune the previous two years, but he cannot motivate our team. Juventus sacked him because they weren't satisfied with 2nd place. We are Milan, not Inter, and we are not satisfied with 2nd place either. I am convinced that we will be 2nd place more often than not with Carlo. In fairness though, it wasn't entirely his fault that we lost this particular game. Dida made a couple of blunders, our defense was mediocre, Gerrard dove and Dudek made a couple of good and a couple of very lucky saves. Motivational skills may not have made up for those factors. Setting that aside. I believe we need a great manager, not just a good one. As I've said before, Carlo isn't a great manager and never will be.
zlatanov
27-05-2005, 13:40
Maybe Carlo won't be able to inspire confidence in his players anymore but we don't know that for sure, and frankly I would rather "risk" to wait and see how things go from now on than "take dumb bets" by sacking him, getting SOMEHOW someone who is at least as good as Carlo to coach Milan, and spend every summer night praying for things to work out and the new Milan to be at least 60-70% of the Milan we broke-up just for kicks.
If it does turn out that he won't enjoy the faith of his players anymore, we can still sack him later on but we must have given him a chance to at least try to make things right. Yeah, Juve did sack him after getting them to only 2nd place in Serie A but they waited for this to happen two years in a row and didn't get rid of him right at the end of the first trophyless season as their coach.
i`ve got to say its nice to know that theres others out there who see where i`m coming from.
when i started this thread i was getting also sorts of abuse on the basis that i wanted him out due to our loss on wednesday night, which is not true.
more importantly its for the many catalogue of errors that people on this board have pointed out and that includes faults from wednesday.
i sincerely hopes he proves all of us wrong and leads milan to glory for the next few years......but i won`t be betting any money on it.
zlatanov
27-05-2005, 14:15
Matnat,
don't fool yourself. You probably haven't spent as much time in this forum as I or others have but let me tell you one thing - these "others out there who see where you arecoming from" are mostly wind pointers and not people with stable opinions and ideas. If you go back and check out the threads of the time when Milan won the Cl in 2003 or the time when Milan beat Deportivo 4-1 at the SS or the time when Milan made Juve talk to themselves with that 1-3 at the delle Alpi, or more recent times ahen we beat Barca, ManU, Inter, etc, etc, you will be very surprised to see how contrasting the opinions of many of these "followers of yours" are. What you will see is how one and the same people hail Carlo as Jesus the Saviour after one game and two weeks later they are already discussing Why, not if, but why he should be kicked out and replaced with someone else. And then a couple of more weeks after that those same people are again litting a bunch of candles in front of Carlo's picture.
Now, if you find pride in being the "apostle" of these wind pointers, be my guest, but don't make the mistake to think that what you read are truely opinions of reasonable and logical people, no matter whether they are for or against Carlo remaining as coach of AC Milan.
Maybe Carlo won't be able to inspire confidence in his players anymore but we don't know that for sure, and frankly I would rather "risk" to wait and see how things go from now on than "take dumb bets" by sacking him, getting SOMEHOW someone who is at least as good as Carlo to coach Milan, and spend every summer night praying for things to work out and the new Milan to be at least 60-70% of the Milan we broke-up just for kicks.
If it does turn out that he won't enjoy the faith of his players anymore, we can still sack him later on but we must have given him a chance to at least try to make things right. Yeah, Juve did sack him after getting them to only 2nd place in Serie A but they waited for this to happen two years in a row and didn't get rid of him right at the end of the first trophyless season as their coach.
I'm not suggesting that we break up the team. I think it probably does make sense to give him another year, as you are correct that we can always sack him later if it is necessary. I just don't have confidence in him and his tactical or motivational skills,and if I were a betting man, I would bet that he won't last beyond one more year. I hope I'm wrong. After all, I want the best for Milan.
I don't think Carlo is the problem .Its the lack of funds.We were supposed to have bought Edgar Davids last summer,a player made for games like this but we couldn't afford him because Ambrosini refused to move.Unless we buy aggresively and wisely I am sure this is going to be the story time and again.
I don't think Carlo is the problem .Its the lack of funds.We were supposed to have bought Edgar Davids last summer,a player made for games like this but we couldn't afford him because Ambrosini refused to move.Unless we buy aggresively and wisely I am sure this is going to be the story time and again.
Davids can't even get into Inter's lineup and would not have been the answer. But, I agree that we could use couple of reinforcements. We haven't had a major purchase in a couple of years, hopefully one will be Gilardino. We also need a couple of younger players in our squad.
Galliani said we would only appoint former players. Rijkaard is his #1 choice but he's not going anywhere.
I think the chances our next coach will be Van Basten are very high. He is a brave coach, has introduced many new players into the Dutch squad and the team play good football. As long as they do reasonably well at the World Cup I expect IF Ancelotti doesn't deliver a trophy he'll be sacked and Van Basten will lead us to glory again!
Matnat,
don't fool yourself. You probably haven't spent as much time in this forum as I or others have but let me tell you one thing - these "others out there who see where you arecoming from" are mostly wind pointers and not people with stable opinions and ideas. If you go back and check out the threads of the time when Milan won the Cl in 2003 or the time when Milan beat Deportivo 4-1 at the SS or the time when Milan made Juve talk to themselves with that 1-3 at the delle Alpi, or more recent times ahen we beat Barca, ManU, Inter, etc, etc, you will be very surprised to see how contrasting the opinions of many of these "followers of yours" are. What you will see is how one and the same people hail Carlo as Jesus the Saviour after one game and two weeks later they are already discussing Why, not if, but why he should be kicked out and replaced with someone else. And then a couple of more weeks after that those same people are again litting a bunch of candles in front of Carlo's picture.
Now, if you find pride in being the "apostle" of these wind pointers, be my guest, but don't make the mistake to think that what you read are truely opinions of reasonable and logical people, no matter whether they are for or against Carlo remaining as coach of AC Milan.
so just because someone doesn`t agree with YOUR point of view your dismissing them as people with not stable ideas?
what makes you such an expert on there opinion?
and if not these people on the boards then theres the italian journalists (like i quoted in this thread), whose opinion i think you`d respect, there all asking the same questions and saying the same thing. just read la gazetta or la stampa etc...
this is not something dreamt up over night, but merely an accumulation of events that have just so happen to bear fruition after the champions league final.
the fact is all ancelottis achievements and failures are there for all to see...
if he was such a good coach we wouldn`t be having this conversation.. the reason why i joined this forum was because i needed to air my views to other people to see what they think.
ive spoken to people on bbc website etc.. and they ask the same questions of why milan are so mentally unstable?
why ancelotti doesn`t rotate the squad etc... i feel you need to see eveyone elses opinions of those not associated with milan and you`ll see that there asking the same questions too....
Ancelotti is a fine tactician and he has given the team great confidence, and he has won two major titles. On the other hand we suffer two CL-trauma's now from his reign.
Let him stay on, but if we crash like we suffered Wednesday night once more, there'll be a lynching party before he's ever fired.
Davids can't even get into Inter's lineup and would not have been the answer. But, I agree that we could use couple of reinforcements. We haven't had a major purchase in a couple of years, hopefully one will be Gilardino. We also need a couple of younger players in our squad.
Seerdorf ,Crespo and Pirlo hardly did anything right at inter but look at what they have done for us over the years.David's form was responsible for turning around Barcelona's fortunes last season ;he played really well for them.
so just because someone doesn`t agree with YOUR point of view your dismissing them as people with not stable ideas?
what makes you such an expert on there opinion?
and if not these people on the boards then theres the italian journalists (like i quoted in this thread), whose opinion i think you`d respect, there all asking the same questions and saying the same thing. just read la gazetta or la stampa etc...
this is not something dreamt up over night, but merely an accumulation of events that have just so happen to bear fruition after the champions league final.
the fact is all ancelottis achievements and failures are there for all to see...
if he was such a good coach we wouldn`t be having this conversation.. the reason why i joined this forum was because i needed to air my views to other people to see what they think.
ive spoken to people on bbc website etc.. and they ask the same questions of why milan are so mentally unstable?
why ancelotti doesn`t rotate the squad etc... i feel you need to see eveyone elses opinions of those not associated with milan and you`ll see that there asking the same questions too....
Matnat, welcome to the discussions! I've observed that it often takes something like this to bring people in here. Ignore those people who have nothing better to do than criticize those whose opinions diverge from their own. It's not worth it. The fair minded and respectful members of this forum far outnumber the small minded ones. :cheers:
People seem to have forgotten what Milan were like just before Ancelotti came in. You would have been overjoyed to even qualify for the CL. :rollani:
If you mini-Morattis want to fire Ancelotti, I want to know who you'll put in his place.
People seem to have forgotten what Milan were like just before Ancelotti came in. You would have been overjoyed to even qualify for the CL. :rollani:
If you mini-Morattis want to fire Ancelotti, I want to know who you'll put in his place.
Why does some many people on this forum bring Inter into this discussions? Inter are not our strongest rivals, Juventus are, how they do things isn't how we do things. Capello was fired for less in his first spell in charge. As far as Berlusconi is concerned if we don't win the European cup the season is a failure, that is why there are question marks over Ancelotti. Scolari is the obvious replacement.
People seem to have forgotten what Milan were like just before Ancelotti came in. You would have been overjoyed to even qualify for the CL. :rollani:
If you mini-Morattis want to fire Ancelotti, I want to know who you'll put in his place.
Why the pessimism? Do you really think that Carlo is the only manager that can achieve results from our squad? Please. It wasn't before Ancelotti came in, it was before Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf, Cafu, Rui and Kaka and others came in, not Ancelotti. The quality of our players has something to do with it.
Why the pessimism? Do you really think that Carlo is the only manager that can achieve results from our squad? Please. It wasn't before Ancelotti came in, it was before Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf, Cafu, Rui and Kaka and others came in, not Ancelotti. The quality of our players has something to do with it.
It did seem that way after Cappello left. Sometimes you need an understated coach at a club of super stars, no one rates Del Bosque but has Real Madrid had a more succesful manager since?
And could those who are nostalgic for the Capello era remind me of how many CL/European Cup titles he holds.
Matnat, welcome to the discussions! I've observed that it often takes something like this to bring people in here. Ignore those people who have nothing better to do than criticize those whose opinions diverge from their own. It's not worth it. The fair minded and respectful members of this forum far outnumber the small minded ones. :cheers:
i want to hear more opinions from others...
i`d like to know from TRINIMAN what he thinks especially as he told me this...
"and trust me as far as my smart "arse" answer goes....that was just a broad attack...i have not even begun to tear apart your comments...i could take an entire day doing that and destroying almost every word you said...but i have better things to do with my time that to come here and argue with someone here who's lifespan here in MM will probably be shorter than that of a mosquito"
how are you right and i`m wrong? im just intrigued to know.....
i want to hear more opinions from others...
i`d like to know from TRINIMAN what he thinks especially as he told me this...
"and trust me as far as my smart "arse" answer goes....that was just a broad attack...i have not even begun to tear apart your comments...i could take an entire day doing that and destroying almost every word you said...but i have better things to do with my time that to come here and argue with someone here who's lifespan here in MM will probably be shorter than that of a mosquito"
how are you right and i`m wrong? im just intrigued to know.....
I can't answer for others, but what message board doesn't have strong personalities?
If you mini-Morattis want to fire Ancelotti, I want to know who you'll put in his place.
Mini Morattis, thats the funniest thing iv read in a long time :grinser:
If you think about it there are only two managers better than Ancelotti right now, Benitez and Mourinhio. Please dont talk about Capello (Who said he wont ever go back to milan anyway) Benitez isnt suited to our players. Hes way to defensive. Mourinhio, honestly there isnt a club owner in the world who wouldnt have him. If anyone can make this Milan team stop bottling it its him. But it doesnt look likely hes coming any time soon so the best man is still Ancelotti and hopefully if he can prove all his doubters wrong once again then we still have a coach in training.
And could those who are nostalgic for the Capello era remind me of how many CL/European Cup titles he holds.
capello has one european cup like ancelotti .
however the difference is the fact that capellos milan teams had an "air" of invincibility.
agaisnt marseille in 92/93 we were unlucky, against ajax 95/96 we were unfortunate to lose savicevic before the match but still dominated the game (remember the stunning volley from simone?!) right up until the last minute, they were all close games.
capello was a tactical genius against barca in 93/94
capellos teams were never weak mentally, i cant recall them caving in like ancelottis has to deportivo, psv or liverpool.....
I can't answer for others, but what message board doesn't have strong personalities?
my point exactly SF_ESQ!!!
i want to know what other people think?!
Yeah i have been disapointed with ancelotti up till now,and i am still grieving for our loss,because i even dreamt of maldini lifting the 7th champions league trophy but unforetunately it didn't happen
but in my own opinion sacking ancelotti is not the best option,let's give him another chance shall we?
zlatanov
27-05-2005, 19:00
so just because someone doesn`t agree with YOUR point of view your dismissing them as people with not stable ideas?
what makes you such an expert on there opinion?
and if not these people on the boards then theres the italian journalists (like i quoted in this thread), whose opinion i think you`d respect, there all asking the same questions and saying the same thing. just read la gazetta or la stampa etc...
this is not something dreamt up over night, but merely an accumulation of events that have just so happen to bear fruition after the champions league final.
the fact is all ancelottis achievements and failures are there for all to see...
if he was such a good coach we wouldn`t be having this conversation.. the reason why i joined this forum was because i needed to air my views to other people to see what they think.
ive spoken to people on bbc website etc.. and they ask the same questions of why milan are so mentally unstable?
why ancelotti doesn`t rotate the squad etc... i feel you need to see eveyone elses opinions of those not associated with milan and you`ll see that there asking the same questions too....
I am not really sure that you even read what I said but just assumed that it was something and immediately commented on it.
I didn't call everyone with an opinion different than mine "people with not stable ideas" or anything like that. I meant that for those people who one week hail Carlo and then a week later are creating posts headed: "Carlo must go ..." or something of this type. I would be more than willing to discuss this with someone who, no matter what, has one RIGID and NONFLOATING oppinion no matter whether it is AGINST or FOR Carlo staying as a Milan coach - this I also pointed out in my last post, whose meaning you so "kindly" DISTORTED, whether intentionally or not, I quite frankly DO NOT CARE.
I have nothing against people asking Carlo to be sacked but as long as they are consistent, no matter what the team does on the field, in their opinions, reasons, motivations, etc. However, I have a lot against those ignorant "FLOATERS" who, without any solid arguments, in week A they call for Carlo to be sacked, then in week B call him the "best coach around" or something of this type and then in week C it is again Carlo the "failure must go"
Again, good luck with the role of the shepherd of these "FLOATERS" for they definitely need someone to guide them in their search for an identity.
And next time try actually reading what you are about to comment on - it often helps a lot.
Honestly, who has ever thought Carlo was a world class manager?
I admit he had the opportunity to prove himself on Wednesday but couldn't because he isn't.
The victory against juve in the CL final was sweet but a penalty shoot out is always can go either way (as we found out ourselves on wednesday)
If we had won the cup i would have been happy for carlo to remain at the helm. but i would not have praised him for being a great manager. Afterall we were playing a team with no experience on CL finals, a poor league position in their domestic league and no silverware, a manager in his first year in charge at a foreign club and in gerrard 1 world class player (if that). So they weren't the Liverpool of old. They were a mediocre premiership side.
But the truth of the matter is we are MILAN and all of us here remember how formidable we were and that is what we aspire to.
Winning cups is great. But to win how we have won by striking fear into the hearts of everyone before us, is truly great. And, we have been the complete opposite of this in recent times.
Please remember who we are because failure is a dirty stain that embellishes our history.
If you think about it there are only two managers better than Ancelotti right now, Benitez and Mourinhio.
Benitez is so good he's taken his team all the way up to fifth place in the EPL. And we're complaining about Ancelotti finishing up second. How long do you think Benitez would last in Italy? Not to mention that nobody knows if he can deal with superstars instead of underdogs. Give Ancelotti credit for his man management skills.
As for Mourinho, he lost to Liverpool just like we did. I really don't see Milan's players falling under his spell like Chelsea's seem to have done. And I don't think his and Berlusconi's egos could coexist.
capello has one european cup like ancelotti .
however the difference is the fact that capellos milan teams had an "air" of invincibility.
Right. Capello has been coaching for a lot longer than Ancelotti. He's had some terrific teams in Milan, Real Madrid, Juve and even Roma, who are volatile but can play astonishing football, and he's managed just one victory in Europe. "Airs" are all very nice, but I'd rather win. We didn't make it this time, but I don't see anyone better than Ancelotti to give it another try.
I'm hoping that Ancelotti will try to correct the problem in our players' mentality. However, he can't be blamed for everything. The players are grown men, highly paid professionals with lots of experience. They shouldn't have lost it like that. Liverpool didn't.
Fair point about Benitez finishing fifth, but hes had alot of injury problems and this was his first year in england. Im sure his appreciation of the premier league will have increased by next season. As for Mourinhio you might be right about him and Berlu, but he would be able to convince this team that they are "special" :grinser: Being a motivator is one of his strengths.
Right now though Im still happy to see Carlo have another year.
ACMILAN1983
27-05-2005, 20:50
ok, I must admit I'm confused. Why are we criticizing Ancelotti for Wednesday.
Tactically, the first half was played perfectly. Sheva had clearly been indicated to attack the fullbacks of Liverpool which opened them up. The movement of Pirlo, Seedorf and Kaka was key to disrupting the Liverpool midfield which struggled to understand how to position themselves. Cafu and Maldini were stopped from overcommiting (though they did attack a fair amount), which was key as Liverpool were prepared to get in behind the fullbacks. There was nothing wrong with this.
I hear people say, as soon as Hamann came on, we should have changed things around. Not true at all, as Ancelotti clearly wanted the side to control the match and remain organised. This was clear from the lack of overcommiting and holding the ball for the first five or ten minutes of the second half. Then the first goal came and the side lost it completely. This wasn't a tactical issue, as our players were not getting into position at all, which affected the teamn structure.
Bringing Serginho on helped nullify the left wing (as he plays much wider than Seedorf) of Liverpool which had been beginning to gain strength in the second half. Rui was influencing play from deep and was used to hold the ball as Liverpool pressed hard to regain control and kept deep to play out time, meaning a little more space was afforded to us in deep areas and Gattuso wasn't needed as Liverpool made little effort to produce anything.
JDT was brought on for similar reasons. Though he can poach goals, he often plays deep, which was necessary against a deep Liverpool side, as we needed him to try and stretch the opposition through his movement. People say Sheva should have been brought off, but then we would have suffered the same problem we have in the past with JDT and Crespo, where lack of movement and link up with the midfield, as well as playing on the shoulder of the deep backline makes it difficult to really cause damage. Sheva's movement caused Liverpool problems and this concept of stretching and disorientating the Liverpool team was how many of our chances came about.
For the whole 120mins, Benitez lost the tactical battle, even if for the crucial 6 mins, our players lost the match.
I cannot fathom how Ancelotti can be blamed for this match. Much moreso, I don't understand how people criticise him for his tactical approach (there aren't many mistakes he's made, but when he makes them, they are focused on far more than the tactical successes he has).
I want Carlo to stay and I have one hope only, which is that he can instill the mental strength the side is lacking.
humanTORCH
27-05-2005, 21:07
Ancelotti have a special group of players to win games. The likes of kaka, sheva is a delight to be any coach dreams. Ancelotti tactics are a big question marks when we play with opponent who coach simple outsmart ancelotti. In a game of football have a great crops of players is one thing and adopting of tactics to different games is one thing.
The frustrating quote by Ancelotti before the final "If Milan can scored within 3 mins of the game, Liverpool will have to change their game".
When we were leading by 3 goals, I thought he was in controlled and should change his tactics but he lost the plot.
Just my two cents thought. :hangover:
I am not really sure that you even read what I said but just assumed that it was something and immediately commented on it.
I didn't call everyone with an opinion different than mine "people with not stable ideas" or anything like that. I meant that for those people who one week hail Carlo and then a week later are creating posts headed: "Carlo must go ..." or something of this type. I would be more than willing to discuss this with someone who, no matter what, has one RIGID and NONFLOATING oppinion no matter whether it is AGINST or FOR Carlo staying as a Milan coach - this I also pointed out in my last post, whose meaning you so "kindly" DISTORTED, whether intentionally or not, I quite frankly DO NOT CARE.
I have nothing against people asking Carlo to be sacked but as long as they are consistent, no matter what the team does on the field, in their opinions, reasons, motivations, etc. However, I have a lot against those ignorant "FLOATERS" who, without any solid arguments, in week A they call for Carlo to be sacked, then in week B call him the "best coach around" or something of this type and then in week C it is again Carlo the "failure must go"
Again, good luck with the role of the shepherd of these "FLOATERS" for they definitely need someone to guide them in their search for an identity.
And next time try actually reading what you are about to comment on - it often helps a lot.
what i don`t understand is that i`ve given you so many reasons as to why carlo should go but all i get from the likes of yourself is criticism of my opinion with no rational from yourself as to expalin why ancelotti is so good?!
ive gone through the problems so many times on this thread about ancelottis time at milan (not just the champions league) but the likes of yourelf dont come up with anything to convince me against my own arguements?!
ac_milan_foreva
27-05-2005, 21:22
i never noticed the number of 2005 join dates on first reading.
hey... i joined in early 2005..... just cuz i havent been in the forum for long doesnt mean im not hardcore milanista.
heidi azalea
28-05-2005, 01:30
:5130:
HMmmmmmm..... This thread must put it die-off.... :d6:
Not an intention to irrespecting freedoms of expressions.
Trust me, sacking Carletto is crazy ! Bring in more harm than good.
Milan needs refurbishing, mentally and emotionally.
they need motivator and moderator, not a new coach.
Even if Mourinho or Sir Alex or anyone come to coach Milan and players attitude still the same, there're no change at all, trust me.
Milan needs a change which really beams from everyone's heart, from managements to players. No need to sack Carletto. Again, no need to sack Carletto !!!! Carletto is good enuff for Milan, at least for now and the next season.
To those ppl who got tangled b/c of this, Milan players and non-playing on the pitch staff should get theraphy and motivational class to strengthened their mental-emotional state, honestly, it got degenerated after Riazor and never fully recovered since.
Why must waste your time to discuss abt sth that Milan management never think to do so ?
KEEP CARLETTO !
sehnsucht79
28-05-2005, 08:19
I think Carlo Ancelotti should stay because like others mentioned, if you sack him I dont think you will be able to replace him with managers who are likely to bring you the trophy back to Milan next year. They are all probably unavailable anyway. Second, sacking him I believe will only cause more damage than good. Fact remains that Milan's foundation under Carlo is very good. To disrupt it by bringing in a new coach will only cause havoc in Milan.
I know that some people do not want Carlo in Milan not just from the CL loss but because they have always never liked him (and I personally didnt when he was at Juventus); but despite of his tactics and how he has made Milan play he did bring some glorious things to Milan. We might like it we might not but at least hes managed to put Milan in his time as one of the teams to fear ... for that I think Carlo deserves one more chance.
Carlo has built the strongest team in Europe for which reason I would be shocked if he was let go off. He deserves at least another season to prove that he has more to bring to this club.
In the future I'm sure that he'll manage Roma at some point, just not yet.
what i don`t understand is that i`ve given you so many reasons as to why carlo should go but all i get from the likes of yourself is criticism of my opinion with no rational from yourself as to expalin why ancelotti is so good?!
As a Spanish journalist said before he took over Milan were a joke - we didn't even make the knockout stages of the Champions League in 2001 and the following season we didn't qualify for the group stages. When we appointed him everyone was still laughing, saying he was a loser (especially Juventino). He 'invented' a new system, made Gattuso and Dida World Class and got the best out of misfits like Pirlo and Seedorf and Maldini and Cafu who were both supposed to be in decline. We won the European Cup in 2003 playing stunning football, at least in the early stages, we beat Bayern, Depor, Lens, Dortmund, Real Madrid and Ajax before struggling against Inter and Juve. Nonetheless winning the European Cup again was a stunning achievement and also put Serie A and Italian football back on the map. While Ancelotti didn't have the level of impact as Sacchi he still changed the philosophy of many Italian clubs who adopted the possession football approach.
He also won the league last season in record breaking fashion - taking 22 points out of 24 from all the big clubs and did a superb job in developing Kaka' who will go onto become the best player in the World.
Ancelotti has been at the club for 4 years, we've won 5 honours (EC, Scudetto, Coppa Italia, European Super Cup, Italian Super Cup). I strongly believe if Serie A was still an 18 team league we would have won the double this season, physical fatigue lead to mental fatigue and we didn't get a break from officials in any big match this season. We've had extraordinarily bad luck. Galliani has promised reinforcements. Maybe Ancelotti will still be coach maybe not. Depor and Liverpool are hard to take, some would say unforgivable but that doesn't detract from the work Ancelotti has done.
Ancelotti must go, sure ! and i hope that Camacho or Guus Hiddink be the new coach.
As a Spanish journalist said before he took over Milan were a joke - we didn't even make the knockout stages of the Champions League in 2001 and the following season we didn't qualify for the group stages. When we appointed him everyone was still laughing, saying he was a loser (especially Juventino). He 'invented' a new system, made Gattuso and Dida World Class and got the best out of misfits like Pirlo and Seedorf and Maldini and Cafu who were both supposed to be in decline. We won the European Cup in 2003 playing stunning football, at least in the early stages, we beat Bayern, Depor, Lens, Dortmund, Real Madrid and Ajax before struggling against Inter and Juve. Nonetheless winning the European Cup again was a stunning achievement and also put Serie A and Italian football back on the map. While Ancelotti didn't have the level of impact as Sacchi he still changed the philosophy of many Italian clubs who adopted the possession football approach.
He also won the league last season in record breaking fashion - taking 22 points out of 24 from all the big clubs and did a superb job in developing Kaka' who will go onto become the best player in the World.
Ancelotti has been at the club for 4 years, we've won 5 honours (EC, Scudetto, Coppa Italia, European Super Cup, Italian Super Cup). I strongly believe if Serie A was still an 18 team league we would have won the double this season, physical fatigue lead to mental fatigue and we didn't get a break from officials in any big match this season. We've had extraordinarily bad luck. Galliani has promised reinforcements. Maybe Ancelotti will still be coach maybe not. Depor and Liverpool are hard to take, some would say unforgivable but that doesn't detract from the work Ancelotti has done.
bloody exellent post.
especially the point about the 18 team league, I agree there to, all these extra games really took it out of us, we had never played that many before in one season.
I agree with Mehdi too! It`s too much 20 teams for Serie A! Anchelotti should stay!
I think Carlo Ancelotti should stay because like others mentioned, if you sack him I dont think you will be able to replace him with managers who are likely to bring you the trophy back to Milan next year. They are all probably unavailable anyway. Second, sacking him I believe will only cause more damage than good. Fact remains that Milan's foundation under Carlo is very good. To disrupt it by bringing in a new coach will only cause havoc in Milan.
I know that some people do not want Carlo in Milan not just from the CL loss but because they have always never liked him (and I personally didnt when he was at Juventus); but despite of his tactics and how he has made Milan play he did bring some glorious things to Milan. We might like it we might not but at least hes managed to put Milan in his time as one of the teams to fear ... for that I think Carlo deserves one more chance.
Me too! He must stay in Milan! :gun:
sehnsucht79
28-05-2005, 10:01
Until this day I dont find the point of expanding the league to 20 teams. Its more interesting maybe but really, theres no direct effect from it at all. Wouldnt make a difference if we stayed with 18 teams
The issue of clubs having too matches to play have always been discussed amongst fans ... Yet nobody's doing anything bout it. CL might be played every two weeks but still, with the Coppa and the league...
Until this day I dont find the point of expanding the league to 20 teams. Its more interesting maybe but really, theres no direct effect from it at all. Wouldnt make a difference if we stayed with 18 teams
It makes a big difference. 18 teams is why Serie A was a better, more competitive championship than La Liga or the Premiership. Look at this season, how close the table is from the top 3 down. Serie A has become mediocre. Teams get more injuries, four extra mid-week matches on top of the Champions League and World Cup qualifiers is a killer.
Maltese Charlie
28-05-2005, 10:15
Ancelotti will stay for sure.
He is confirmed from both Galliani and Berlusconi.
Now even Carlo confirms his staying.
and I beleive that this is the best decision.
:cheers: for next season.
zlatanov
28-05-2005, 10:17
Ancelotti must go, sure ! and i hope that Camacho or Guus Hiddink be the new coach.
and I am sure you have some reasons - other than a mysterious gut feeling - why Camacho should be even considered as a possible replacement for Carlo. :sweeteye: :rolleyes:
After reading some of the points in this topic about whether Carlo Ancelotti should be given the sack? I think that he should stay for another season or two. Plus for the stability of the team as well
triniman
28-05-2005, 12:42
As a Spanish journalist said before he took over Milan were a joke - we didn't even make the knockout stages of the Champions League in 2001 and the following season we didn't qualify for the group stages. When we appointed him everyone was still laughing, saying he was a loser (especially Juventino). He 'invented' a new system, made Gattuso and Dida World Class and got the best out of misfits like Pirlo and Seedorf and Maldini and Cafu who were both supposed to be in decline. We won the European Cup in 2003 playing stunning football, at least in the early stages, we beat Bayern, Depor, Lens, Dortmund, Real Madrid and Ajax before struggling against Inter and Juve. Nonetheless winning the European Cup again was a stunning achievement and also put Serie A and Italian football back on the map. While Ancelotti didn't have the level of impact as Sacchi he still changed the philosophy of many Italian clubs who adopted the possession football approach.
He also won the league last season in record breaking fashion - taking 22 points out of 24 from all the big clubs and did a superb job in developing Kaka' who will go onto become the best player in the World.
Ancelotti has been at the club for 4 years, we've won 5 honours (EC, Scudetto, Coppa Italia, European Super Cup, Italian Super Cup). I strongly believe if Serie A was still an 18 team league we would have won the double this season, physical fatigue lead to mental fatigue and we didn't get a break from officials in any big match this season. We've had extraordinarily bad luck. Galliani has promised reinforcements. Maybe Ancelotti will still be coach maybe not. Depor and Liverpool are hard to take, some would say unforgivable but that doesn't detract from the work Ancelotti has done.
Excellent post.........this should put an end to it all
Mehdi, you made some good points.
Triniman, put an end to what? Others are entitled to their opinions as well, and from what I've seen, there are those who flat out want Carlo to stay, those who flat out want him to go, and those who are on the fence and think he should be given another year. Quite frankly, yes, we won a very nice champions league and a record breaking serie a season under Carlo, and losing in the champions league final is acceptable, and even commendable, but losing it the way we did its humiliating and unacceptable, period. If Carlo is to be given credit for our trophies, then he should take responsiblity for a defeat like that.
when i saw what triniman last posted i thought i might as well leave it because maybe people don`t want to discuss it but then again i thought..
1. this is a forum and erm... well yeah im supposed to air my views and discuss with everyone else..
2. i have more things to say about carlo....
i just got back home and spoke to my uncle for the first time in a few months. he is a juventus fan and naturally we talked about football.
he couldn`t believe that we gave a 3 goal lead away to liverpool.. but then he said
"i can`t believe we (juve) won that title, we (juve) are absolute garbage and have played some of the most awful football this year, with reggina and udinese and samp flying high in the league as well as us (juve) winning the title, i think shows just how poor serie a has become"
does anybody else agree with this?
are we the 2nd best of a really poor bunch of footballl teams?
i hope ancelotti makes some changes to our play but on past evidednce i dont think he will.
we must remember ancelotti was coach of both parma and juventus. in those days his football revolved around tactics and everything was for the system.
hence he got rid of zola because although he was an outstanding footballer he couldnt find him a place ina rigid 4-4-2. at juve he got rid of henry cos he couldnt fit him either on the left wing or even wing back (yes he played him there in a 3-5-2 system).
it seems as if ancelotti has gone full circle cos know it seems as if its the players that matter. he`ll try and play as many of his best players as he can with slight dis-regard to the system. personally after watching milan numerous times this year i think it unbalances the team.
its the same with rijkaard at barcelona. how many times have u watched them and said to yourself and your mates "why does he only play ronaldinho on the left?! why not in the centre where he can do more damage?!"
its about finding the balance. if that means playing roanldinho on the left then so be it if its for the good of the team. i think barcelona have managed to find the right balance. however the only flaw with barca is that its defenders are poor with the exception of puyol. if they replaced van bronkhorst and belletti with fullbacks who can defend more than they could attack and find another decent centre back then i think they`d be the team winning the champions league....
what do you think?
triniman
28-05-2005, 18:57
you can post what you like ...it's an open forum...but i have the same right to critize your views as you can do the same for a player, coach or team.....like i said...i can go on for days about things said here...people calling for a sack when it's not needed.....reminds me of the time when people wanted to protest and get rid of seedorf after he missed the penalty kick in the world club cup....but in the end it all boils down to the same thing......
as far as the serie A is a rubbish league....why could it not be the opposite....why could it not be that the serie has reached a level where all teams are competitive???
i mean if a religation battling team can make it to the semi finals of UEFA CUP...that has to mean something...especially seeing that it was done with more reserves than anything......
and the fact that italy has 3 teams in the last eight....does that too not count for something...it does ..
it means the serie a has once again become the best league on the planet...where even a last placed team can beat any other team on a given day, where struggling in the league can be combined with success in europe....
you can post what you like ...it's an open forum...but i have the same right to critize your views as you can do the same for a player, coach or team.....like i said...i can go on for days about things said here...people calling for a sack when it's not needed.....reminds me of the time when people wanted to protest and get rid of seedorf after he missed the penalty kick in the world club cup....but in the end it all boils down to the same thing......
as far as the serie A is a rubbish league....why could it not be the opposite....why could it not be that the serie has reached a level where all teams are competitive???
i mean if a religation battling team can make it to the semi finals of UEFA CUP...that has to mean something...especially seeing that it was done with more reserves than anything......
and the fact that italy has 3 teams in the last eight....does that too not count for something...it does ..
it means the serie a has once again become the best league on the planet...where even a last placed team can beat any other team on a given day, where struggling in the league can be combined with success in europe....
but doesnt the fact that a truly dull and awful juve team win serie a mean anything?
the fact that both milan and juventus got beat by the 5th best team in the premiership liverpool?
(and for arguements sake) you could say that england is the best league as they had two teams in the last four....
(and for arguements sake) you could say that england is the best league as they had two teams in the last four....
that would be as shallow as to say say that Serie A is the best league as they had three teams in the last eight.
Stelios11
28-05-2005, 20:44
the final match's performance was as good as like seein trevizo-livorno or something.I don't forget the achievements of coatch but winnin with 3-0 in final and then beaten from liverpool (not a squad difficult to ACM),is a rare achievement really very few could reach!
Isn't that makes any sense? :d33:
sehnsucht79
28-05-2005, 22:45
It makes a big difference. 18 teams is why Serie A was a better, more competitive championship than La Liga or the Premiership. Look at this season, how close the table is from the top 3 down. Serie A has become mediocre. Teams get more injuries, four extra mid-week matches on top of the Champions League and World Cup qualifiers is a killer.
What I meant was, I do not see how expanding the league to 20 teams is better than sticking with 18 teams in the league.
sehnsucht79
28-05-2005, 22:57
but doesnt the fact that a truly dull and awful juve team win serie a mean anything?
the fact that both milan and juventus got beat by the 5th best team in the premiership liverpool?
(and for arguements sake) you could say that england is the best league as they had two teams in the last four....
I do not consider EPL the best league in the world because of personal taste and I do not measure the best league in the world by their club performances in CL. If from the past 2 seasons heck French Ligue is probably the best league in the world. Because, CL if we like it or not is sometimes unfair and depends on luck. For example if we followed the textbook Milan shouldn't have made it to the final as PSV according to most "deserved" to go through. Pool's goal against Chelsea IMO was invalid and they were lucky that DP's ONSIDE goal was disallowed AND Canna's chance in the 2nd leg hit the bar. Nevertheless what happened, happened.
As for your comments regarding Serie A, Serie A has remained the most competitive league for YEARS. Even this season. Recently everything will only be decided till the last day and this season Juve's neck to neck race with Milan has been wonderful, not forgetting Udinese and Samp's race for CL also the 11 to 9 teams relegation battle.
Having said that though I do agree with you. I find that the lower teams (like Sampdoria) play better football than Juventus and Milan. I hate to say it but BOTH Juve and Milan have played some really ugly football in the league this year. For example Milan's game against Fiorentina. I felt that was a bad performance on Milan's behalf but Sheva won it for you guys. Juventus always manages to get maximum results with minimum efforts. Juventus deservedly won the scudetto no questions bout that but it is disappointing to see the big two play awful football in the league. I can count with my fingers the number of matches both Juve and Milan have played "beautifully". This is why even though Serie A is the most competitive league everyone prefers to watch the likes of La Liga and EPL.
zlatanov
28-05-2005, 23:20
the final match's performance was as good as like seein trevizo-livorno or something.I don't forget the achievements of coatch but winnin with 3-0 in final and then beaten from liverpool (not a squad difficult to ACM),is a rare achievement really very few could reach!
Isn't that makes any sense? :d33:
Well, with such compelling arguments I am finally convinced, and I am sure Galliani and Silvio will soon follow suit, that Carlo should be fired as soon as possible and Milan will have a shiny-new "bright" future in the making.
I am sure the figure "2005" is just a coincidence, again :p286: :rollani: :1avs:
Ok let's just assume that Ancelotti got fired.
Headlines: MILAN SENSATIONALLY SACK ANCELOTTI FOR CUP FINAL DISASTER
Ancelotti : "As I always said, my heart is with this club but decisions were made and unfortunately I did not fit in with the plans of Milan. It is sad that 6 mins of madness led to the undoing of all the work done at this club. I wish them the best."
Maldini: "It is a terrible shock to all of us considering how close he made our team and how close I felt towards him as an ex-teammate. We had spent a lot of time together as players and as him as my manager. It is sad to see him leave, considering all he has done for us. But we must look forward and welcome whoever takes his place."
HEADLINES: CESARE MALDINI BECOMES INTERIM MANAGER OF MILAN.
"Cesare Maldini becomes the interim manager of Milan again with Mauro Tassotti as assistant manager until Galliani finds a permanent solution"
Galliani: "we are approaching several managers around europe who we think can adequately steer this ship to a scudetto and CL double - the goal we failed to attain this year. The manner of our defeat in Istanbul was too hard to bear and we felt that someone had to be the scapegoat - Ancelotti had to go."
MEDIA QUESTION: "But Mr. Galliani, does it not count for anything that Carlo has secured IMMENSE successes in his short period at Milan?"
Galliani: "We repeatedly asked him not to play the Xmas tree formation. he wouldn't listen."
*reporter looks perplexed* : "but er...that is quite honestly the silliest reason to sack a coach"
Galliani: "The matter of losing a 3-0 lead also hurts us terribly."
Reporter: "so you are sacking him based on one game?"
Galliani: "er..pretty much."
HEADLINES: "GALLIANI SACKS MANAGER BASED ON PERFORMANCE IN ONE GAME"
---few months later
HEADLINES: "Galliani hires COACH JOHN DOE as ne Milan manager"
John Doe: "I am glad to take control of this Milan team. I am taking charge of some of the best playersi n the world and we will ensure that we don't throw away leads in cup finals again, as we all know that would make you lose your job here"
.....
and milan start their season with the shadow of a coach being fired, and potentially the NEW coach being given the sack soon if he throws away leads or throws out a formation that is not liked by the bosses. Milan stumble to some mediocre results due to a lack of confidence in the new coach and a break in the trend that was followed by Ancelotti (REMEMBER the Oscar Washington Tabarez era? of course you don't. He came in to Milan after a SUCCESSFUL capello was let go.)
Milan end the season in 5th place. Galliani sacks the coach and tries to lure Donadoni or Rijkaard to Milan. Both refuse. Ancelotti in the mean time, finishes the season in charge of Real Madrid as the Championos of Spain.
Galliaini wonders why he was born.
heidi azalea
29-05-2005, 03:37
As a Spanish journalist said before he took over Milan were a joke - we didn't even make the knockout stages of the Champions League in 2001 and the following season we didn't qualify for the group stages. When we appointed him everyone was still laughing, saying he was a loser (especially Juventino). He 'invented' a new system, made Gattuso and Dida World Class and got the best out of misfits like Pirlo and Seedorf and Maldini and Cafu who were both supposed to be in decline. We won the European Cup in 2003 playing stunning football, at least in the early stages, we beat Bayern, Depor, Lens, Dortmund, Real Madrid and Ajax before struggling against Inter and Juve. Nonetheless winning the European Cup again was a stunning achievement and also put Serie A and Italian football back on the map. While Ancelotti didn't have the level of impact as Sacchi he still changed the philosophy of many Italian clubs who adopted the possession football approach.
He also won the league last season in record breaking fashion - taking 22 points out of 24 from all the big clubs and did a superb job in developing Kaka' who will go onto become the best player in the World.
Ancelotti has been at the club for 4 years, we've won 5 honours (EC, Scudetto, Coppa Italia, European Super Cup, Italian Super Cup). I strongly believe if Serie A was still an 18 team league we would have won the double this season, physical fatigue lead to mental fatigue and we didn't get a break from officials in any big match this season. We've had extraordinarily bad luck. Galliani has promised reinforcements. Maybe Ancelotti will still be coach maybe not. Depor and Liverpool are hard to take, some would say unforgivable but that doesn't detract from the work Ancelotti has done.
:p283:
Well done, Mehdi ! Excellence posts !
And kudos to Nadir, I have a visualization like you did.... But you have said it in the first place.
Grenoli_Trio
29-05-2005, 08:11
Ok Nadir, Let's just assume that Carlo did not get fired and reached to the semi final of Champions League:
MEDIA: ANOTHER NIGHTMARE IN NOU CAMP
'' Everything seemed to be in its right place until 60th minute. Milan won 3-1 first match in Milano and scored a goal in 35th minute in the second leg. But after Barcelona's 4 goals, made fans remember Deportivo, PSV and Liverpool matches.''
ACMILAN.COM
Galliani: ''I think semi final is not a bad result. You know there is always next se.... errr... we will not sack anybody.''
Ok Nadir, Let's just assume that Carlo did not get fired and reached to the semi final of Champions League:
MEDIA: ANOTHER NIGHTMARE IN NOU CAMP
'' Everything seemed to be in its right place until 60th minute. Milan won 3-1 first match in Milano and scored a goal in 35th minute in the second leg. But after Barcelona's 4 goals, made fans remember Deportivo, PSV and Liverpool matches.''
ACMILAN.COM
Galliani: ''I think semi final is not a bad result. You know there is always next se.... errr... we will not sack anybody.''
what you said is pure speculation. Reality is that TEAMS LOSE GAMES. You cannot fire a coach because of a bad game in one or two games in a season. But what I said HAS HAPPENED TO MILAN BEFORE. remember Terim? Tabarez?
zlatanov
29-05-2005, 08:34
Ok Nadir, Let's just assume that Carlo did not get fired and reached to the semi final of Champions League:
MEDIA: ANOTHER NIGHTMARE IN NOU CAMP
'' Everything seemed to be in its right place until 60th minute. Milan won 3-1 first match in Milano and scored a goal in 35th minute in the second leg. But after Barcelona's 4 goals, made fans remember Deportivo, PSV and Liverpool matches.''
ACMILAN.COM
Galliani: ''I think semi final is not a bad result. You know there is always next se.... errr... we will not sack anybody.''
So the moral of this FICTICIOUS story is - sack the coach if we don't reach the CL final each and every year? In that case, I am affraid, we would virtually run out of coach substitutes in a bout 3-4 seasons.
You treat going to the CL final as if it is something that happens just like that whenever the fans happen to have whim for it. Don't forget that many great teams, if not most of them, reach a CL final once in every 10 years or so, and we should feel blessed for being one of the few sides who feel the CL as their home competition. Stop treating it as a comodity.
Grenoli_Trio
29-05-2005, 09:31
1) A coach can achieve some good things with such a great squad=Milan
2) A coach cannot be succesful even he has the greatest squad=Real Madrid
3) A coach can achieve the best things with an ordinary squad compared to Giant teams= Liverpool, Porto.
I think you finally get an idea. Because when Ancelotti showed the best performance in 2003, our team was not so good. But unfortunately, we are getting worse day by day, although our squad is much better than ever.
Grenoli_Trio
29-05-2005, 09:36
And please do not forget that no idea is absolute. You do believe, to sack Ancelotti will cause bad results in the future. And i do believe, nothing can be worse than this, with this great squad.
heidi azalea
29-05-2005, 09:41
And please do not forget that no idea is absolute. You do believe, to sack Ancelotti will cause bad results in the future. And i do believe, nothing can be worse than this, with this great squad.
Great, what I can say more ????
1) A coach can achieve some good things with such a great squad=Milan
2) A coach cannot be succesful even he has the greatest squad=Real Madrid
3) A coach can achieve the best things with an ordinary squad compared to Giant teams= Liverpool, Porto.
I think you finally get an idea. Because when Ancelotti showed the best performance in 2003, our team was not so good. But unfortunately, we are getting worse day by day, although our squad is much better than ever.
I totally agree. Plus the major thing is that he doesnt bring major drama or any soap opera polemics into the organization. The players really respect this guy. He is neither lax or a control egotistical freak like Lippi, Capello, and Sacchi.
heidi azalea
29-05-2005, 09:47
I totally agree. Plus the major thing is that he doesnt bring major drama or any soap opera polemics into the organization. The players really respect this guy. He is neither lax or a control egotistical freak like Lippi, Capello, and Sacchi.
....and Trappatoni for sure !:skull:
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 10:42
Excuse me? Lippi and Capello are surely equally respectable as Ancelotti! None are lax or "egotistical control freak", and BOTH coaches have commanded GREAT respect from players. Its really unfair for you to compare such with Lippi and Capello.
Excuse me? Lippi and Capello are surely equally respectable as Ancelotti! None are lax or "egotistical control freak", and BOTH coaches have commanded GREAT respect from players. Its really unfair for you to compare such with Lippi and Capello.
I didnt say they were not great. I am correct to say that they are control freaks and cant deal with players as effectively as Carlo has. Before Fabio left AC MILAN he made a very discerditing comment about Maldini and his ability to lead the team as captain causing un-neccesary strain in their professional relationship. With Lippi well we know the soap opera that went on with him and Del Piero as well as your boy toy Pippo. Yeah they command respect but not in the way of ease that Coach Carlito has.
this thread is not even worth my attention anymore. no offence to your opinions but replaciing ancelotti now is the most ridiculous thing i have heard. it will SURELY bring us back to the Terim/Tabarez/cesare era unless we get a real motivator and disciplinarian.
Ancelotti won everything in the 1st 2 seasons.
In 2002/03 we won the CL but we where out from the Serie A race in March
2003/04 we won the Serie A with an incredible amount of points but had the Riazor nightmare
This season we where the only European team to fight for league and CL till the end. IMO the only mistakes by Ancelotti is that he doesn't make full use of the squad. For example vs juve, Pirlo and Seedorf where out of form, despite that he played them leaving on form players as Ambro Rui and Dhorasso out.
Let's see what happens next year, if we don't win, then I'll be the 1st to change my openion on him.
Look at this statement from Carlo...
" For the rest, the lessons from Istanbul will be useful and we will be calmer and more aware when we take the lead. "
----------------------------------------------------------------
How can someone who lost soooo many games after he had serious advantege say something like that ( depor-milan, juve-man utd, milan-l'pool.....). So now he realised he can lears something!!! This really sucks, really carlo....
Didnt he learned something already!!!??
Warro Bantan
09-06-2005, 11:13
Hopefully some of the tension has eased now that some time has passed since the Insanity in Istanbul, and after reading the posts in this thread, I feel compelled to add my 2 cents to this debate. (But only 2 cents, and not a dime more):D
While I, along with Debs, and several others here in MM forums, have had our doubts about Carlo, from the very first day of his appointment, I cannot honestly advocate his sacking as a result of the aforementioned 6 or 7 minutes of insanity.
What I would sack him for is for his consistency....that is in losing, or coming second.
However, let me hasten to add that he does deserve one more try for the golden apple, and believe me, if we don’t win some silverware next season, then I would be leading the masses, with torch and pitchfork in hand to lynch Carlo "Ance-lose-a-lotti" as I used to refer to him.
While I wont be singing his praises if he does win something, I can confess to wishing his tenure in Milan to be as abbreviated as possible, but only if a suitable replacement can be found which will result in a return to the dominant Milan that quite honestly, I prefer seeing, to the "how big of a lead can you throw away" Milan that seems to be in vogue under Carlo’s tenure.
Blaming Carlo for the debacle in Istanbul, and for whimpering into second place in the Serie A is somewhat shortsighted however, as he was not on the pitch, and the changes he made should have, by all accounts resulted in a victory, which was obviously destined to be Liverpools. Sheva´s miss from an inch perfect cross from Serghino should have scored, and JDT should also have put away his chance.
As I have posted before, the moment I saw JDT coming on the pitch, I knew the game was lost. He is not a big game player, but I do concede that Carlo was in a better position to determine which forward he wanted coming off the bench, and because JDT can also tackle and pass, he opted for him over Pippo.
Add to that the expanded Serie A, and any team, and I do mean any team, would have found it next to impossible to achieve both scudetto and UCL trophy.
This is all water under the bridge, and while I still have little faith in Carletto, I honestly think that he is the best of a bad situation for us at present. Hindsight is 20 20….lets all remember that.
What I find intolerable is Berlu’s insistence on playing 2 forwards all the time, when the obvious change to make when you are leading is to put in a defensive midfielder (oh how I rue Ambro’s absence now)…switching to the Xmas tree vs Liverpool would IMO have given us a much different result.
Again, giving him another opportunity, with a somewhat refreshed squad, seems the best of a bad situation, with the caveat that he win something this season…no nearly nothing. Win, or leave.
Is this too much pressure? I don’t think so…it is the nature of the beast. It is not like its his first season at the helm, and if the helmsman keeps running the ship aground, then we need a new helmsman, simple as that.
To be fair however, this is his first totally disappointing season, and as we are human, we tend to make mistakes, or have things turn out contrary to what we desire. Changing coaches now would be ludicrous, and shortsighted in the extreme.
A lot can and will happen in a season, and honestly, though I differ with him time and time again, in terms of selection and tactics, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least for one more season.
triniman
09-06-2005, 18:19
Hopefully some of the tension has eased now that some time has passed since the Insanity in Istanbul, and after reading the posts in this thread, I feel compelled to add my 2 cents to this debate. (But only 2 cents, and not a dime more):D
While I, along with Debs, and several others here in MM forums, have had our doubts about Carlo, from the very first day of his appointment, I cannot honestly advocate his sacking as a result of the aforementioned 6 or 7 minutes of insanity.
What I would sack him for is for his consistency....that is in losing, or coming second.
However, let me hasten to add that he does deserve one more try for the golden apple, and believe me, if we don’t win some silverware next season, then I would be leading the masses, with torch and pitchfork in hand to lynch Carlo "Ance-lose-a-lotti" as I used to refer to him.
While I wont be singing his praises if he does win something, I can confess to wishing his tenure in Milan to be as abbreviated as possible, but only if a suitable replacement can be found which will result in a return to the dominant Milan that quite honestly, I prefer seeing, to the "how big of a lead can you throw away" Milan that seems to be in vogue under Carlo’s tenure.
Blaming Carlo for the debacle in Istanbul, and for whimpering into second place in the Serie A is somewhat shortsighted however, as he was not on the pitch, and the changes he made should have, by all accounts resulted in a victory, which was obviously destined to be Liverpools. Sheva´s miss from an inch perfect cross from Serghino should have scored, and JDT should also have put away his chance.
As I have posted before, the moment I saw JDT coming on the pitch, I knew the game was lost. He is not a big game player, but I do concede that Carlo was in a better position to determine which forward he wanted coming off the bench, and because JDT can also tackle and pass, he opted for him over Pippo.
Add to that the expanded Serie A, and any team, and I do mean any team, would have found it next to impossible to achieve both scudetto and UCL trophy.
This is all water under the bridge, and while I still have little faith in Carletto, I honestly think that he is the best of a bad situation for us at present. Hindsight is 20 20….lets all remember that.
What I find intolerable is Berlu’s insistence on playing 2 forwards all the time, when the obvious change to make when you are leading is to put in a defensive midfielder (oh how I rue Ambro’s absence now)…switching to the Xmas tree vs Liverpool would IMO have given us a much different result.
Again, giving him another opportunity, with a somewhat refreshed squad, seems the best of a bad situation, with the caveat that he win something this season…no nearly nothing. Win, or leave.
Is this too much pressure? I don’t think so…it is the nature of the beast. It is not like its his first season at the helm, and if the helmsman keeps running the ship aground, then we need a new helmsman, simple as that.
To be fair however, this is his first totally disappointing season, and as we are human, we tend to make mistakes, or have things turn out contrary to what we desire. Changing coaches now would be ludicrous, and shortsighted in the extreme.
A lot can and will happen in a season, and honestly, though I differ with him time and time again, in terms of selection and tactics, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least for one more season.
boomboclatt star!!!!!!!
that post wicked!!!!
Warro Bantan
10-06-2005, 10:02
boomboclatt star!!!!!!!
that post wicked!!!!
Thanks trini...I took about two days to finish that post. :r11:
Thanks trini...I took about two days to finish that post. :r11:
i have to say great post also.
heidi azalea
11-06-2005, 22:03
boomboclatt star!!!!!!!
that post wicked!!!!
I agree, should give reputation points to him.....
Southernsun
23-06-2005, 08:46
il mister deve restare. let's go milan!
Hopefully some of the tension has eased now that some time has passed since the Insanity in Istanbul, and after reading the posts in this thread, I feel compelled to add my 2 cents to this debate. (But only 2 cents, and not a dime more):D
While I, along with Debs, and several others here in MM forums, have had our doubts about Carlo, from the very first day of his appointment, I cannot honestly advocate his sacking as a result of the aforementioned 6 or 7 minutes of insanity.
What I would sack him for is for his consistency....that is in losing, or coming second.
However, let me hasten to add that he does deserve one more try for the golden apple, and believe me, if we don’t win some silverware next season, then I would be leading the masses, with torch and pitchfork in hand to lynch Carlo "Ance-lose-a-lotti" as I used to refer to him.
While I wont be singing his praises if he does win something, I can confess to wishing his tenure in Milan to be as abbreviated as possible, but only if a suitable replacement can be found which will result in a return to the dominant Milan that quite honestly, I prefer seeing, to the "how big of a lead can you throw away" Milan that seems to be in vogue under Carlo’s tenure.
Blaming Carlo for the debacle in Istanbul, and for whimpering into second place in the Serie A is somewhat shortsighted however, as he was not on the pitch, and the changes he made should have, by all accounts resulted in a victory, which was obviously destined to be Liverpools. Sheva´s miss from an inch perfect cross from Serghino should have scored, and JDT should also have put away his chance.
As I have posted before, the moment I saw JDT coming on the pitch, I knew the game was lost. He is not a big game player, but I do concede that Carlo was in a better position to determine which forward he wanted coming off the bench, and because JDT can also tackle and pass, he opted for him over Pippo.
Add to that the expanded Serie A, and any team, and I do mean any team, would have found it next to impossible to achieve both scudetto and UCL trophy.
This is all water under the bridge, and while I still have little faith in Carletto, I honestly think that he is the best of a bad situation for us at present. Hindsight is 20 20….lets all remember that.
What I find intolerable is Berlu’s insistence on playing 2 forwards all the time, when the obvious change to make when you are leading is to put in a defensive midfielder (oh how I rue Ambro’s absence now)…switching to the Xmas tree vs Liverpool would IMO have given us a much different result.
Again, giving him another opportunity, with a somewhat refreshed squad, seems the best of a bad situation, with the caveat that he win something this season…no nearly nothing. Win, or leave.
Is this too much pressure? I don’t think so…it is the nature of the beast. It is not like its his first season at the helm, and if the helmsman keeps running the ship aground, then we need a new helmsman, simple as that.
To be fair however, this is his first totally disappointing season, and as we are human, we tend to make mistakes, or have things turn out contrary to what we desire. Changing coaches now would be ludicrous, and shortsighted in the extreme.
A lot can and will happen in a season, and honestly, though I differ with him time and time again, in terms of selection and tactics, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least for one more season.
:star: :cool:
My only objection to the post is that that surely was more than 2 cents. :dstup: :ilol: A solid buck at least. :D
Dr Milano
23-06-2005, 12:05
:delol: :djn: :star: :cool:
My only objection to the post is that that surely was more than 2 cents. :dstup: :ilol: A solid buck at least. :D
ancelotti aint goin everyone an d the coach r having another chance gila crespo in squad
Source: Football Italia
Milan boss Carlo Ancelotti insists there was no chance of his departure following the Champions’ League loss to Liverpool.
The tactician was linked with both Real Madrid and Roma after his club’s Istanbul nightmare, but maintains he wants to stay at the San Siro for some time to come.
"There was never any truth in the stories," said the Coach. "It is my idea to remain past my current deal which is set to expire in 2007."
The Rossoneri looked like certain European Cup winners this term, but somehow threw away a 3-0 lead to lose on penalties against the Premiership side.
"The Champions’ League remains the most important trophy," added Ancelotti. "The disappointment of Istanbul stays with us but we must look ahead.
"It was a horrible incident at the end of a really good season. We want to repeat that next term but with the aim of ending it differently."
The club are desperately trying to strengthen Ancelotti’s squad for the new season but are finding it tough to sign Parma’s Alberto Gilardino.
"He is an important and good player," said the tactician. "We want to sign him but if he doesn’t come then we will still be strong.
"Buying players is very tough now as it seems that all clubs have only limited resources. Only Chelsea have money which allows them to sign anybody – apart from Andriy Shevchenko…"
Meanwhile, director general Ariedo Braida has confirmed that there is nothing new to report in the Gilardino chase.
"We are working on it," he stated. "We will do all we can and even the impossible to bring him to Milan. Especially as that is what the player wants."
Milan have bid £18m but Parma are hoping to net around £25m for the Italian international striker.
Dr Milano
28-06-2005, 16:02
Source: Football Italia
Milan boss Carlo Ancelotti insists there was no chance of his departure following the Champions’ League loss to Liverpool.
The tactician was linked with both Real Madrid and Roma after his club’s Istanbul nightmare, but maintains he wants to stay at the San Siro for some time to come.
"There was never any truth in the stories," said the Coach. "It is my idea to remain past my current deal which is set to expire in 2007."
The Rossoneri looked like certain European Cup winners this term, but somehow threw away a 3-0 lead to lose on penalties against the Premiership side.
"The Champions’ League remains the most important trophy," added Ancelotti. "The disappointment of Istanbul stays with us but we must look ahead.
"It was a horrible incident at the end of a really good season. We want to repeat that next term but with the aim of ending it differently."
The club are desperately trying to strengthen Ancelotti’s squad for the new season but are finding it tough to sign Parma’s Alberto Gilardino.
"He is an important and good player," said the tactician. "We want to sign him but if he doesn’t come then we will still be strong.
"Buying players is very tough now as it seems that all clubs have only limited resources. Only Chelsea have money which allows them to sign anybody – apart from Andriy Shevchenko…"
Meanwhile, director general Ariedo Braida has confirmed that there is nothing new to report in the Gilardino chase.
"We are working on it," he stated. "We will do all we can and even the impossible to bring him to Milan. Especially as that is what the player wants."
Milan have bid £18m but Parma are hoping to net around £25m for the Italian international striker.
parma have gone lower but so have milan i thought it was 35 million and we biidded 25 y cant milan just pay the bloody price
I merged the "Ancelotti denies exit claims" thread into this one, as the discussion had died in that thread. Peace :)
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