View Full Version : UEFA Champions League 2008-2009
Surprised there's no thread to talk about the Champions League here. Afre people even following it? Or is it a bit awkward since our team isn't in it. Predictions, comments on the matchdays can all be discussed here. I'll post results after each matchday.
Group A:
Chelsea
CFR Cluj
Roma
Bordeaux
Group B:
Internazionale
Bremen
Anorthosis
Panathinaikos
Group C:
Barcelona
Shakhtar
Basel
Sporting
Group D:
Atlético
Liverpool
Marseille
PSV
Group E:
Man. United
Villarreal
Celtic
AaB
Group F:
Bayern
Fiorentina
Lyon
Steaua
Group G:
Porto
Arsenal
Dynamo Kyiv
Fenerbahçe
Group H:
Real Madrid
Juventus
Zenit
BATE
Matchday Two results:
E AaB 0-3 Man. United
E Villarreal 1-0 Celtic
F Fiorentina 0-0 Steaua
F Bayern 1-1 Lyon
G Arsenal 4-0 Porto
G Fenerbahçe 0-0 Dynamo Kyiv
H Zenit 1-2 Real Madrid
H BATE 2-2 Juventus
I saw the Arsenal match and my oh my what a performance it was. Deserved to win 7 or 8-0 with the way they dominated Porto. Goes to show that to dominate midfield, you don't necessarily need more CDMs but just people who are comfortable on the ball, willing to run and can keep possession. Clichy is a beast btw.
Porto were pretty poor, especially defensively. If you're going to allow players that much space and not put in any decent tackles then you're just asking for trouble.
We should definately put all our effort into getting Fabregas and reuniting him with Flamini :D
I would love the champion to be Fiorentina :D
Porto were pretty poor, especially defensively. If you're going to allow players that much space and not put in any decent tackles then you're just asking for trouble.
We should definately put all our effort into getting Fabregas and reuniting him with Flamini :D
We have so many central midfielders (not that Fabregas wouldn't deserve to start over them) but due to the history they have with the club...etc etc yadda yadda, I doubt we'd bring in such a good CM who'd relegate Ambro etc to the bench. Besides I also think that if Cesc is gonna go anywhere...it'll be to Barca when Xavi hass past his time. Also if Gourcuff impresses, we may actually keep him instead of selling him to Bordeaux.
- Kaka
Pirlo - Flamini - Fabregas midfield is such a temptation though.........:D
remote2book
01-10-2008, 15:51
gorcuff scored an extremely good goal against Roma today but Bordeaux stilll lost 3-1
Some good and important goals for Liverpool. Keane's goal was expertly finished and should come as a bit of a relief to him, while Gerrard's strike for his 100th Liverpool goal was another nice milestone.
The two ties between Liverpool & Atletico Madrid should be quite enjoyable if they can continue this high scoring.
Shame Afellay didn't play, but a bruised toe can do that to you :rolleyes: :ilol:
Yesterday's results:
A CFR Cluj 0-0 Chelsea
A Bordeaux 1-3 Roma
B Anorthosis 3-1 Panathinaikos
B Internazionale 1-1 Bremen
C Sporting 2-0 Basel
C Shakhtar 1-2 Barcelona
D Liverpool 3-1 PSV
D Atlético 2-1 Marseille
Atletico Madrid are doing great i think they can sursprise all and win the title,and this would be the best thing can happen in this champions league cause it's so boring without Milan:S
dont think Atletico will win this year...
dont forget that there is Roma, Loserfool, Assanal and Printer etc etc in there too :D
i said it would be great atletico to win i would love atletico or fiorentina to win and i beleive ateltico has a real chances to win this competition.
As much as I hate to say it...the other Italian teams in the CL REALLY aren't impressing. Is is something wrong with Serie A ? When I see Madrid TOY with Bate then Juve struggle to draw with them...then something really wrong. We're only two matches into the competition so I hope they'll improve.
Aside: Sergio Aguero is a BEAST.
hitmannq8
03-10-2008, 08:48
No Milan in UCL = No Italy.. Inter/Juve have been very poor since the 90ies (except the odd 2003 season) I was hoping Fiorentina would reach far but the French cheats messed it up for them and now they have to work harder.
rosoneri_11
04-10-2008, 13:34
Well i cant say whoe's gonna win the CL but i can say for sure that the best football is played from Arsenal and Zenit. I love to see those teams playing.They play amazing football! I wish to see them in final. :pr115:
^^ Barca just played an AMAZING game versus Atletico Madrid though...so don't count them out!
^^ Barca just played an AMAZING game versus Atletico Madrid though...so don't count them out!
don't look with just one game they may learn from these mistakes who knows.
The things that don't kill you they just make you stronger :P.
Matchday 3 - 21 October 2008
E Villarreal 6-3 AaB
E Man. United 3-0 Celtic
F Bayern 3-0 Fiorentina
F Steaua 3-5 Lyon
G Fenerbahçe 2-5 Arsenal
G Porto 0-1 Dynamo Kyiv
H Zenit 1-1 BATE
H Juventus 2-1 Real Madrid
Juve won while the Fiorentina result says the Viola got owned. I didn't see any of the matches though...i'll have to catch a replay. Did anyone see the games?
remote2book
21-10-2008, 17:29
Juve won while the Fiorentina result says the Viola got owned. I didn't see any of the matches though...i'll have to catch a replay. Did anyone see the games?
Yea i watched the Juve Match they played extremely good momo sissoko is just a monster in the midfield for juve he was definitely their MOTM as for fiorentina the first two goals were defensive errors they just couldnt handle a big team like Bayren they werent organised in the back at all and nothin to show for in attack
Maldini+Nesta
22-10-2008, 08:45
I think the press are hyping
up the win for Juve vs. RMCF.
I think Madrid are not that strong
this year.
Ok, logically if Juve are that tough
wouldn't they be fairing well
vs. many lesser sides in Serie A?
Maybe Serie A is much tougher than
La Liga right now?
Today's fixtures:
Group Home Away
A Bordeaux 20:45 CFR Cluj
A Chelsea 20:45 Roma
B Internazionale 20:45 Anorthosis
B Panathinaikos 20:45 Bremen
C Shakhtar 20:45 Sporting
C Basel 20:45 Barcelona
D Atlético 20:45 Liverpool
D PSV 20:45 Marseille
Maybe Serie A is much tougher than
La Liga right now?
I am no football pundit but I think Serie A is the toughest league. Especially, if you consider the mid-table and lower-table teams.
Results from Wednesday's games:
Group Home Away
A Bordeaux 1-0 CFR Cluj
A Chelsea 1-0 Roma
B Internazionale 1-0 Anorthosis
B Panathinaikos 2-2 Bremen
C Shakhtar 0-1 Sporting
C Basel 0-5 Barcelona
D Atlético 1-1 Liverpool
D PSV 2-0 Marseille
I hope the CL goes some where outside England, Spain & Italy. I thought if Arshavin fired up, Zenit had a chance to surprise many, but they got a very tough group :stuckup: So I would I like to see either Bayern Munich or Lyon winning the CL & if I include England, Spain & italy as well then this is my wishlist:-
1- Bayern Munich
2- Lyon
3- Zenit
4- Villareal
5- Athletico Madrid
6- Inter Milan
7- Juventus
8- Chelsea
9- Barcelona
10- Any one but Man Utd, Liverpool & Arsenal :sagrin:
Milano84
27-10-2008, 22:50
I hope the CL goes some where outside England, Spain & Italy. I thought if Arshavin fired up, Zenit had a chance to surprise many, but they got a very tough group :stuckup: So I would I like to see either Bayern Munich or Lyon winning the CL & if I include England, Spain & italy as well then this is my wishlist:-
1- Bayern Munich
2- Lyon
3- Zenit
4- Villareal
5- Athletico Madrid
6- Inter Milan
7- Juventus
8- Chelsea
9- Barcelona
10- Any one but Man Utd, Liverpool & Arsenal :sagrin:
you put inter at 6 and juve 7?! i'll cheer on roma and fioretina although neither have real shots.... otherwise villareal, atletico and any other teams that play attractive football and r not epl
you put inter at 6 and juve 7?! i'll cheer on roma and fioretina although neither have real shots.... otherwise villareal, atletico and any other teams that play attractive football and r not epl
Unlike some ACM fans I don't have any hard feelings for Juve & Inter. I like their big players. Del Peiro, J. Zanetti, Nedved & Buffon are among my favorite players. I want either Bayern or Lyon to win the CL, so I can't say Fiorentina as well bcoz they all in the same group & surely Bayern & Lyon will progress, though this Gila+Mutu combination is an exciting one :cool:
I think Fiorentina & Zenit got unlucky with their tough groups. Some groups are pretty easy like group A, C & G :dcool: Both teams will end up in UEFA Cup. Just imagine these semi finalists in the UEFA Cup
AC Milan, Zenit, Valencia & Ajax/Fiorentina :firedev:
AC Milan vs Valencia will be a Big final :5schal:
Matchday 4 I believe...
Group Home Away
A CFR Cluj 20:45 Bordeaux
A Roma 20:45 Chelsea
B Anorthosis 20:45 Internazionale
B Bremen 20:45 Panathinaikos
C Sporting 20:45 Shakhtar
C FC Barcelona 20:45 Basel
D Liverpool 20:45 Atlético
D Marseille 20:45 PSV
goal for Bordeaux .... goal for Gourcuff!
Hasan Rossonero
04-11-2008, 18:30
Roma skin Chelsea. Shocking. Almost as shocking as Gerrard's dive against Atletico.
And Inter...man oh man...hahah
I thought Karagounis' shot against Werder Bremen was goal of the round, what a strike!
Great match yesterday between liverpool and atletico
Even the referee was superb
For a moment I thought it was De Santis:cpuke:
obviously I was mistaken
Alex Del Piero, what a legend............ :pr115:
ACM vs Juve will be a special one :pp20:
KAKA vs DEL PIERO :510:
Anyone agrees it's a ****ed up Champions League?
Manchester United, Chelsea, Inter, and Real Madrid. I think all the football pundits were pretty agreed that the winner wouldn't be a team not mentioned in that list.
Manchester United/Chelsea: English Premier League, Champions League. One to win the former, the other to win the latter.
Inter: Once again the joke of Europe. I love to see them entertain us. A disgrace to Italy, -and South America :D-. The only thing the "Special One" has introduced to Inter is that lovely 4-2-4 formation!
Real Madrid: Disappointing. A defeat to Juventus. Then another one. I believe Madrid should send their players to Italy to teach them defending, then send them to Brazil to teach them attacking, then send them to Guatemala and buy a new team.
Inter: Once again the joke of Europe.
They were, they are and they will always be ^^
Have no idea that they couldn't beat such a cute name like Anorthosis :D
Merda fans always moaning about our defense.. nah.. lets see their defense! Clumsy Burdisso, slow Materazzi and even the only one that I respect from Inter players, Zanetti could do the mistake. Everytime they against Milan defense anymore.. they have to remember this game too :tong:
Matchday 4 - 04 November 2008
A CFR Cluj 1-2 Bordeaux
A Roma 3-1 Chelsea
B Anorthosis 3-3 Internazionale
B Bremen 0-3 Panathinaikos
C Sporting 1-0 Shakhtar
C Barcelona 1-1 Basel
D Liverpool 1-1 Atlético
D Marseille 3-0 PSV
Matchday 4 - 05 November 2008
E AaB 2-2 Villarreal
E Celtic 1-1 Man. United
F Fiorentina 1-1 Bayern
F Lyon 2-0 Steaua
G Arsenal 0-0 Fenerbahçe
G Dynamo Kyiv 1-2 Porto
H BATE 0-2 Zenit
H Real Madrid 0-2 Juventus
Blacktop
14-11-2008, 02:07
How many slaps on the wrist will Celtic continue to receive from UEFA? Any English or Italian team would've had their home grounds shut down for a game had they let a fan run amok on the pitch.
Champions League - Group E
00:22 November 25
FT Aalborg BK 2 - 1 Celtic
FT Villarreal 0 - 0 Manchester U.
Champions League - Group F
00:22 November 25
FT Bayern Munich 3 - 0 Steaua Bucuresti
FT Fiorentina 1 - 2 Lyon
Champions League - Group G
00:22 November 25
FT Arsenal 1 - 0 Dynamo Kyiv
FT Fenerbahce 1 - 2 FC Porto
Champions League - Group H
00:22 November 25
FT Zenit St. Petersburg 0 - 0 Juventus
FT BATE Borisov 0 - 1 Real Madrid
Didn't see any of the matches...any comments?
Champions League - Group E
00:22 November 25
FT Aalborg BK 2 - 1 Celtic
FT Villarreal 0 - 0 Manchester U.
Champions League - Group F
00:22 November 25
FT Bayern Munich 3 - 0 Steaua Bucuresti
FT Fiorentina 1 - 2 Lyon
Champions League - Group G
00:22 November 25
FT Arsenal 1 - 0 Dynamo Kyiv
FT Fenerbahce 1 - 2 FC Porto
Champions League - Group H
00:22 November 25
FT Zenit St. Petersburg 0 - 0 Juventus
FT BATE Borisov 0 - 1 Real Madrid
Didn't see any of the matches...any comments?
Glad to see Viola gets knocked out from CL. Ah.. that just my personal opinion that I hate them because they replaced us took the spot for CL this season.. even though I hate ourselves more because our stupidity for not reaching that spot ^^ Also glad to see Arsenal won the match and Manure is draw :tong: Just another record from Villareal boys that they unbeaten in La Liga and CL if I'm not mistaken (not so sure about this, havent check it yet ). And say what... in love with Sergio Ramos... :heart:
Champions League - Group A
November 26
FT Bordeaux 1 - 1 Chelsea
FT CFR Cluj 1 - 3 AS Roma
Champions League - Group B
November 26
FT Anorthosis 2 - 2 Werder Bremen
FT Inter Milan 0 - 1 Panathinaikos
Champions League - Group C
November 26
FT Shakhtar Donetsk 5 - 0 Basel
FT Sporting Lisbon 2 - 5 Barcelona
Champions League - Group D
November 26
FT Atletico Madrid 2 - 1 PSV Eindhoven
FT Liverpool 1 - 0 Marseille
Just a statistic to throw out there:
L. Messi in 5 CL games, has 5 goals and 3 assists. Let's not even go into his La Liga stats. Best player in the world? I think so. I just hope he can have a relatively injury free season. I don't miss a Barcelona game once I know this guy is playing.
Villareal boys that they unbeaten in La Liga and CL if I'm not mistaken (not so sure about this, havent check it yet ). And say what... in love with Sergio Ramos... :heart:
Villareal lost last week in La liga, but hats off to them, they are really flying high.
You r probably the second most beautiful girl on MM, and you say you are in love with Sargio Ramos? :eek: :stress: Unbelievable :d33: , he is a good defender but pretty ordinary looking man (no disrespect). You should have picked some one like Farnendo Morientes, David Villa, Van Dar Vaart, Heinze, Cassilles, David Silva, Messi or even Xavi from Spain :bri:
Villareal lost last week in La liga, but hats off to them, they are really flying high.
You r probably the second most beautiful girl on MM, and you say you are in love with Sargio Ramos? :eek: :stress: Unbelievable :d33: , he is a good defender but pretty ordinary looking man (no disrespect). You should have picked some one like Farnendo Morientes, David Villa, Van Dar Vaart, Heinze, Cassilles, David Silva, Messi or even Xavi from Spain :bri: there you have it folks..... the expert on romantic good looking boys has spoken :respect:
:proud:
Villareal lost last week in La liga, but hats off to them, they are really flying high.
You r probably the second most beautiful girl on MM, and you say you are in love with Sargio Ramos? :eek: :stress: Unbelievable :d33: , he is a good defender but pretty ordinary looking man (no disrespect). You should have picked some one like Farnendo Morientes, David Villa, Van Dar Vaart, Heinze, Cassilles, David Silva, Messi or even Xavi from Spain :bri:
Ah.. well.. just put my name at the most bottom of your list (if you just have 2 names in your list then it's correct) ^^ More suit for the ordinary woman like me ^^
And about Sergio Ramos..it wasnt literally in love with him. But I love to have him as a CB in our squad.
Champions League - Group A
17:46 December 9
20:45 AS Roma - Bordeaux
20:45 Chelsea - CFR Cluj
Champions League - Group B
17:46 December 9
20:45 Panathinaikos - Anorthosis
20:45 Werder Bremen - Inter Milan
Champions League - Group C
17:46 December 9
20:45 Barcelona - Shakhtar Donetsk
20:45 Basel - Sporting Lisbon
Champions League - Group D
17:46 December 9
20:45 Marseille - Atletico Madrid
20:45 PSV Eindhoven - Liverpool
If Bordeaux beat Roma they qualify for the knockout stages of the competition. As much as I support Italian teams and all.... FORZA GOURCUFF :D
Champions League - Group A
December 9
FT AS Roma 2 - 0 Bordeaux
FT Chelsea 2 - 1 CFR Cluj
Champions League - Group B
December 9
FT Panathinaikos 1 - 0 Anorthosis
FT Werder Bremen 2 - 1 Inter Milan
Champions League - Group C
December 9
FT Barcelona 2 - 3 Shakhtar Donetsk
FT Basel 0 - 1 Sporting Lisbon
Champions League - Group D
December 9
FT Marseille 0 - 0 Atletico Madrid
FT PSV Eindhoven 1 - 3 Liverpool
Hey Mystik are you getting some kind of pay for posting these details? :grinser:
Round of 16 Predictions
Atlético - Porto
Lyon - Barcelona
Arsenal - Roma
Inter - Man. United
Real Madrid - Liverpool
Chelsea - Juventus
Villarreal - Panathinaikos
Sporting - Bayern Munich
:smileani:
Do you guys wanna know the winners 2 months before the kick offs? Here you go:-
Lyon & Barcelona
Barca are favorites, But Lyon will beat them. Why? because my heart says Lyon will win & last time I had this kind of feeling was back in 2006, when I predicted ACM to win the CL 06-07. Lyon will draw the 1st leg & get the result needed for qualification @ Camp Nou i.e a draw or away goal. Benzema will be the key! It will be one of those game for Barca when they will have 70% ball possession but no penetration & Eto'o will get a red card for good :5ok:
Inter & Man. United
Very simple. Jose will kick out Old Fergie just like when He did it with Porto & Humiliated Fergie time and time in EPL with Chelsea. C.Ronaldo will be disappointing again as usual when it matters. Rooney is too young to cause any problems for Inter. Midfield is the area where Inter will blow away Man Utd. Zanetti, Vieira, Cambiasso, Muntari, Stankovic etc will blow away the cartoons like Carrick, Park, Fletcher, Scholes etc. Ibrahimovis is too much to be handled by Ferdinand & Vidic. But the 2 clear reasons why Inter will win are: 1-Jose Mourinho 2-defending Champs usually lose in the Round of 16 :sagrin:
Chelsea & Juventus
Its a very tough one to call. But since February is the months when King Frank Lampard really gets on fire & I have seen him single handedly taking Barca & Bayen apart in the knock out stages, so I am going for Chelsea. Also the fact that Juventus has lost the last 2 meetings with English teams and each ending 0-0 at their own backyard. Lampard will be the star of the tie & Juve will go out :5schal:
Real Madrid & Liverpool
The clown Rafa has had enough success in Europe in the past only because of extremely good luck. It will have to end at last & I am sure against Real it will. The attack of Huntelaar, Higuaine, Raul, Robben & RVdW is good enough to win against Luckypool despite conceding 1 or 2 goals, because Real's defense is pathetic apart from Casillas. Plus no more lucky goals for Gerrard & if he dives again, He will be sent off for the better of the game :510:
Arsenal & Roma
Even with 100% fit Febragas, Aderbayor & RVP, Arsenal would have no chance against Roma. Now Febragas is out so its not even worthy for me to give reasons why Roma will win easily. Plus sick Arsene Wenger will be sacked at the end of the season. :D
Sporting & Bayern Munich
Bayer will win this seasons CL, so there is no reason whey they wnon't win against Sporting :p283:
Villarreal & Panathinaikos
The Yellow submarine will reach the SF of CL this season and its simple as that :u125:
Atlético & Porto
Aguero will show why he is the one who will lead Argentine attack in 2010 WC to the victory stand. Although Porto at home are as good as any one, but Atlético will win in Extra time, on penalties or even on away goal :bri:
**********************************
My Hot Tips of Round of 16:
-Lyon to win
-C.Ronaldo do disappoint again
-Lampard to score against Juve
:3band:
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
14:45 ET Internazionale v Manchester United Giuseppe Meazza
14:45 ET Arsenal v AS Roma Round of 16 Emirates Stadium
14:45 ET Lyon v Barcelona Round of 16 Stade de Gerland
14:45 ET Atlético Madrid v FC Porto Round of 16 Vicente Calderon
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
14:45 ET Chelsea v Juventus Round of 16 Stamford Bridge
14:45 ET Villarreal v Panathinaikos Estadio El Madrigal
14:45 ET Real Madrid v Liverpool Estadio Santiago Bernabéu
14:45 ET Sporting Lisbon v Bayern Munich Jose Alvalade
Italian teams matches bolded. Predictions, hopes whatever you got post them here. I actually want Inter to beat Man-U because believe it or not, my dislike for Cristiano surpasses my dislike for Inter Milan. Inter will always get knocked out next round anyway :D. Juve I want to defeat Chelsea definitely, while I'm kinda tied up between Roma and Arsenal because there are players on both sides who I like (Cesc, Clichy, De Rossi, Aquilani).
Valdes. is. horrible. Juninho free kick from an impossible angle dips into the back corner...1-0 Lyon.
kastriot
24-02-2009, 15:15
I cant belive how lucky Inter is...Man utd had like 5 chances until now!!
remote2book
24-02-2009, 15:15
currently watching lyon vs barca inter vs Man u and Roma v Arsenal .....most impressive player so far karim benzema!! only if milan made a move for him!
kastriot
24-02-2009, 15:16
Valdes. is. horrible. Juninho free kick from an impossible angle dips into the back corner...1-0 Lyon.
you have to admit though...that was an amazing free kick...how does he do it??
m an U dominated but now Inter is back on the gruond. all in all not very exciting match so far.
When you see Julio Cesar on a screen and Valdes just at his left on the same screen, it's pretty funny to compare them !! Julio Cesar can save Inter whereas Valdes can kill Barcelona ...
The FK from Juninho was an easy save for any good GK.
Lyon 1-0 Barcelona -> Lyon play well but Barcelona has a weird defence ... and they don't play well at all for moment.
Inter 0-0 Man U -> I'm more concentrated on the Barcelona game because the screen is bigger :D but looks like the Red Devils had more often the ball ?
Arsenal 1-0 Roma -> Seems like Arsenal dominates as hell from reports on Eurosport.fr ... who is Loria ??
I think, Juninho's freekick was even difficult for Buffon. It was really uncertain whether it's a long pass or a direct shot. The ball ran towards the players and then directly into the corner between the bar and the post. I thought the ball went out but it's not. A very clever freekick IMO and a typical FK from Juninho, a FK which is normally difficult to guess where will the ball goes to. Pirlo's one is similar to Juninhos but Juninho's FK is much better (more on-target/resulting goals).
Ugh when you need Inter to get a result they never do. Now the chances of them going to OT and winning are slim to none. Although a 1-1 draw will get them through.
The FK from Juninho was an easy save for any good GK.
The only thing Valdes is guilty of here in my opinion is that he didn't realise Juninho was taking that free kick and subsequently that something wicked was possible (and so it did). The dip over Valdes' head was amazing. If you don't forsee that kind of a free kick, no keeper couldve saved that. The only thing Buffon and Casillas wouldve offered is that they wouldve known Juninho might try that. And from that angle, I'm not sure even they couldve predicted. It was a crazy angle!
Did one hear the laurels heaped by the presenters and commentators at Sky on Ronaldo? He failed to convert like 6 free kicks! Del Piero and Juninho couldve scored 3 of them. What a shameful state of affairs.
I don't think Valdés' mistake was as bad as people make it out to be. The way I see it the greatest of keepers might've managed to jump backwards and tip the ball slightly over the bar, but it was hardly an easy save. Obviously Valdés didn't expect Juninho to shoot directly - ideally he should've been prepared for both a shot and a pass.
Btw, did you see the confrontation between Ronaldo and Balotelli?
The two biggest babies of football going at it :haha:= Priceless - definately the highlight of the entire matchday for me...:510:
Did one hear the laurels heaped by the presenters and commentators at Sky on Ronaldo? He failed to convert like 6 free kicks! Del Piero and Juninho couldve scored 3 of them. What a shameful state of affairs.
Pirlo's FKs were worse (regarding of goals from FKs). How many goals could he score from hundred FKs with Milan? Very few!
Pirlo's direct free kicks have been very bad since the world cup yes but it was his indirect ones whose disappearing has surprised me more. Ronaldo cannot provide an assist from a free kick.
Both have such a poor conversion rate but are hailed as 'specialists'.
One of the most consistent free kick takers I've seen in the last few years is Juan Roman Riquelme. His free kicks always forced a miracle save from the keeper or if they missed, only missed barely. I remember once he scored two free kicks I think in a Copa Libertadores game. That guy is a beast.
About the FK by Juninho, when you watch the replays, Valdes had no reaction, he had a little time to go back on his line but he didn't, instead of that, he just watched the ball as a dog would do ... :D
About the results:
- Bayern are already in quarter finals
- the 4 English clubs have an option to qualify :(
Oh you never know. That's the beauty of football. We all thought Milan is already trhough to semi when we won 4-1 :D
All of the Round of 16 first leg results:
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
Status Home Score Away STAGE TV VENUE (ATT.)
Final Internazionale 0 - 0 Manchester United Round of 16 Giuseppe Meazza (84,000)
Final Arsenal 1 - 0 AS Roma Round of 16 Emirates Stadium (60,003)
Final Lyon 1 - 1 Barcelona Round of 16 Stade de Gerland (40,000)
Final Atlético Madrid 2 - 2 FC Porto Round of 16 Vicente Calderon (54,000)
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
Status Home Score Away STAGE TV VENUE (ATT.)
Final Chelsea 1 - 0 Juventus Round of 16 Stamford Bridge (38,079)
Final Villarreal 1 - 1 Panathinaikos Round of 16 Estadio El Madrigal
(25,500)
Final Real Madrid 0 - 1 Liverpool Round of 16 Estadio Santiago Bernabéu (85,000)
Final Sporting Lisbon 0 - 5 Bayern Munich Round of 16 Jose Alvalade (35,163)
Inter - Man United
In the first half Manchester United were in full control passing the ball around quickly creating good chances against an Inter side that looked nervous and unfocused. Slowly they got their grit together and made it an even match again. Mostly during the second half it must be said.
It was nice to see a good game on a high level with two sides determined to play good football. I was impressed again with the English side's abilitity to shut down the spaces and attack with intelligence.
Inter were as always tight in defence despite of their shaky start to the game. In attack they did their best but created only few chances.
There only way now football can make me feel happy this season is to see all the 4 English clubs lose and Juve-Inter play the UCL final, because thats the only way I could see an Inter slip up a nd ACM winning the Scudetto :r11:
There only way now football can make me feel happy this season is to see all the 4 English clubs lose and Juve-Inter play the UCL final, because thats the only way I could see an Inter slip up a nd ACM winning the Scudetto :r11:
That would be awesome but I wouldn't exactly mind to see all the 4 english clubs lose with Internazionale Merda and Real Merda losing in the next round.
Matchday 8: Round of 16 Second Leg matches.
Tuesday, March 10, 2009
Time Home Away STAGE TV VENUE
15:45 ET Bayern Munich v Sporting Lisbon Allianz-Arena
15:45 ET Juventus v Chelsea Stadio Olimpico Grande Torino
15:45 ET Panathinaikos v Villarreal Athens Olympic Stadium
15:45 ET Liverpool v Real Madrid Anfield
Wednesday, March 11, 2009
Time Home Away STAGE TV VENUE
15:45 ET FC Porto v Atlético Madrid Estadio do Dragao
15:45 ET AS Roma v Arsenal Olimpico
15:45 ET Barcelona v Lyon Estadio Camp Nou
15:45 ET Manchester United v Internazionale Old Trafford
Predictions, wishes, everything post them here! I wish Inter and Man-U could knock each other out...but since that's not possible I prefer Inter win than Man-U. Won't be able to stand the C.Ronaldo fanboys for too long. Inter would probably get eliminated next round anyway :D.
I hope Juve and Madrid go through from today's lot. No predictions.. only hopes.
Well, Juventus is near the end in this CL (1-1 and Chelsea seems to control the game now whereas they were totally dominated in the first half) ... and Madrid is already out.
I was optimistic after the goal of Juventus that tonight, we could have one English team eliminated, but now ...
Feels like Bayern vs. Sporting is like PES for me lol
Feels like Bayern vs. Sporting is like PES for me lol
:D
As well as Liverpool-Real was like Fifa !!
PS: 2/2 for England ... let's hope for a 2/4 but I have no faith in Inter and Roma for tomorrow.
Feels like Bayern vs. Sporting is like PES for me lol
LOL Jeff!!!
Feels like Bayern vs. Sporting is like PES for me lol
I was thinking in Europe level you cant have crazy score like Muenchen did. Because most of clubs are in the same level or not too far behind..But its happened :D The beauty of football I guess ;) Anyway.. waiting Sir Alex to kick Merda ass tonight. I read that Inter will be without Samuel, Chivu, Burdisso, and Materazzi. It's very danger too have so much space in defense area. But I think Jose has good record when he met Sir Alex. From 13 matches with Sir Alex (combined when he was Chelsea manager and Porto manager) he just lost 1. And history says that he beat Sir Alex's squad in CL final with Porto 5 years ago and became the champion of Europe. But hell this time will be in Old Trafford.. everthing will be different :)
If Inter qualifies, I want Roma to qualify too ... if Roma qualifies, I don't care about Inter ... yes, you read it, I want Italian clubs to qualify, but I don't want Inter to be the only Italian club qualified !! :D
(the best situation would be Inter and Roma anyway)
Come On Bayern Munich
Hates off to the UEFA Champions League Winners of 2008-2009
You make me feel proud in the absence of my AC Milan and as I said some days ago, the Best attacking combination of the world.
Feel bad for Juve though, but as I predicted, Frank Lampard made the difference with the unstoppable long range shoot to which even the great Buffon had no answer. Yea Essien will get the headlines for his comeback and goal, but it was Frank which kicked out Juve
& as for Real Madrid, well thank God I am not a Real fan, other wise I would have wanted the earth to swallow me after what happened last night. If you guys think Inter is the joke of Europe, think again because Real is catching them fast :devs:
Bayern Munich :p283:
Villareal :5ok:
Chelsea :undecide:
Liverpool :5milan:
Juventus :irritate:
Real Madrid :uhm:
Sporting Lisbon :rocky:
Panathinaikos :sleepy:
Feel bad for Juve though, but as I predicted, Frank Lampard made the difference with the unstoppable long range shoot to which even the great Buffon had no answer. Yea Essien will get the headlines for his comeback and goal, but it was Frank which kicked out Juve
??
The ball was touched by a defender, it's why Buffon couldn't stop it ...
All Italians out. The Seria A is inferior to the Premier league on many levels.
4/4 for English clubs ... :(
No Italian club qualified for the next round: it's true, without us, there is no good result coming from Italian clubs in Europe (and like we didn't do well the last two years, there has been no result since two years).
Not that I am Roma, Inter or Juve fan, but still Italian teams in CL and almost UEFA cup...
Premier League teams, as someone said (a coach or something), are only better in the starting line-up (players aka money), not the tactic. This is of course not for Inter. Inter lost because they were (and are) just worse than MU, no alibi at all. :D
I don't like Juve and Roma went out from the competition but not for Inter. Mancini was fired even he won the league and did better than Maurinho (League AND CL), so what will Moratti do? A fake club is always fake, no matter where they are. :5horse:
ps : I forgot, Maurinho's Inter is better on certain side compare to Mancini's one, at least Maurinho's players didn't fight in or after the game.
Us Milan fans can quietly hope to fly the flag for the Italian cause next season. The truth is we were dumped out by Arsenal 2 years ago, we have been made to look like a mid-table side in games against Man City and Portsmouth and we couldnt even get into the competition for this season. Again we are being made to sweat this season, dont be surprised if we get our @sses handed to us by an English side next year. And why shouldnt we? Are we so arrogant to think that players like Seedorf (Once our box to box player) will be some kind of 4X4 as Ancelotti so horribly put it. Will Kaka and Ronnie suddenly work together when there has never been any suggestion they will for Milan or Brazil? Can we penetrate the almost old Seria A type defenders English sides have with one 18 year old kid as our only true striker? Lets not even get started on our own defence!
The next few years could be painful viewing for Seria A fans. Milan, Real and Juve took advantage of the fact that English sides were given a handicap by being ruled out of the then European Cup. It took them a long time to recover, but how they have recovered. They are attracting the best players, making the most money and doing generally the best business. The league is run in a professional way unlike Seria A, which is haunted by match fixing scandals, deaths on the terraces and riots outside the grounds, old age homes for locker rooms in the case of Italy's only worthy European contenders - Milan and Juve. With the Premier League and the english sides being ran so well and the Seria A and Italian sides being ran so badly, what is the likelyhood of Italian football conquering Europe again?
So like I said dont expect any miracles next year, this Milan unlike that of Sacchi has to compete with a beast that was still asleap back then.
Edit** Oh but we have Beckham, a player that wouldnt get into the United, Chelsea or Liverpool team.
Us Milan fans can quietly hope to fly the flag for the Italian cause next season. The truth is we were dumped out by Arsenal 2 years ago, we have been made to look like a mid-table side in games against Man City and Portsmouth and we couldnt even get into the competition for this season. Again we are being made to sweat this season, dont be surprised if we get our @sses handed to us by an English side next year. And why shouldnt we? Are we so arrogant to think that players like Seedorf (Once our box to box player) will be some kind of 4X4 as Ancelotti so horribly put it. Will Kaka and Ronnie suddenly work together when there has never been any suggestion they will for Milan or Brazil? Can we penetrate the almost old Seria A type defenders English sides have with one 18 year old kid as our only true striker? Lets not even get started on our own defence!
The next few years could be painful viewing for Seria A fans. Milan, Real and Juve took advantage of the fact that English sides were given a handicap by being ruled out of the then European Cup. It took them a long time to recover, but how they have recovered. They are attracting the best players, making the most money and doing generally the best business. The league is run in a professional way unlike Seria A, which is haunted by match fixing scandals, deaths on the terraces and riots outside the grounds, old age homes for locker rooms in the case of Italy's only worthy European contenders - Milan and Juve. With the Premier League and the english sides being ran so well and the Seria A and Italian sides being ran so badly, what is the likelyhood of Italian football conquering Europe again?
So like I said dont expect any miracles next year, this Milan unlike that of Sacchi has to compete with a beast that was still asleap back then.
Edit** Oh but we have Beckham, a player that wouldnt get into the United, Chelsea or Liverpool team.
Italian people have something special about their ego ... everyone is going to say they are dead in Europe (especially in England). They will probably react to this failure (and probably second year of failure in a row if we consider last year as a failure for Italian football). It's like in 2006 with the NT: everyone said that this team would do nothing because of all that happened in Serie A, and what happened ?!
I think you guys are making a way big a jump here.
Italian teams not doing well doesn't mean that Serie A is not competitive. Just like Premier league team not doing well doesn't mean that Premier league sucks.
You are talking about two variables here: one is on a team-level, one is on a country-level. You canNOT generalize what happen on the team level to country level.
If this isn't obvious to you, here is another example:
Korea beat Italy in 2002 world cup (country-level), but does this mean Korea teams are better than Italian teams? I hope you'll agree with me that the answer is no.
Similarly, you can't draw conclusion that because Inter/Juve/Roma/Fio didn't qualify for CL, Serie A sucks.
All you can say is:
1) Caciopoli made only one best team in Italy, which is Inter.
2) Inter doesn't know how to play in CL, regardless of coach.
3) Other teams are significantly weaker.
Surprised all teams are out? No.
Premier League stronger than Serie A? I do'nt think so.
After all, are you seeing 4-5 teams fighting for the fourth spot in Premier League?
***
Agree on the attracting the best players, which unfortunately many of them are not from England.
Perhaps most ironically, they even have to hire a coach that's from Italy (which by no means, of course, that Italian coaches are better than English coaches).
Christian
11-03-2009, 23:38
Certainly was terrible to see all the Italian teams knocked out. I still feel optimistic about our chances next year, our squad will be stronger, and hopefully we won't have the same injury problems we've had this year, and to some extend last year.
I think Calcio reached rock bottom with Calciopoli after a decline that started with the financial problems for Lazio, Fiorentina and Parma in the early 00's. Inter and Roma haven't been great European teams, in Roma's case never, and in Inters case not in 50 years, so having the two strongest contenders weakened like that has been a big blow.
Juventus are still rebuilding, and I'm still optimistic about our chances. Fiorentina are building an ambitious team, so is Napoli despite their christmas collapse, and Sampdoria to. They might take a while before any of them can compete in CL, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Also all the teams might've been knocked out, but the English teams weren't as dominant as alot of people would like to think. Juventus got an unfair red card, in a game they dominated, ultimatly lost cause they simply weren't clinical enough, Roma lost on penalties. Don't get me wrong, it was fully deserved that the English teams won, but it wasn't THAT dominant. So I think calcio can come back strong.
Also, if the 6-5 rule gets passed, it'll be a huge blow for English football. Their complete abandonment of Brittish talent have left them in a bad shape for the future, while there are great up and comers in Italy; Santacroce, Davide Santon, Giovinco, Marco Motta are all great talents.
I can also definetly agree on the thing Jeff said. I think it's quite obvious that the 4 big teams in England are on a whole different level than the lower teams. Year after year we see the same teams qualify for champions leauge, only now have Aston Villa possed some kind of thread to Arsenal, mostly due to them letting go of all they're key players (Flamini ;] ), and injuries ofcourse. That kind of consistency only increases the 4 teams strength and widens the range between these and the lower teams.
Just too bad Roma didnt make it. Or at least Italian club will have their representative :) but.. hell NO for me.. :D Arsenal qualified :D And I am very glad with that ^^
LOL for Inter Milan.. they will never reach this highest competition ^^ Hope the special one can accept that was special won for MU :tong: Well done Sir Alex ^^
Just too bad Roma didnt make it. Or at least Italian club will have their representative :) but.. hell NO for me.. :D Arsenal qualified :D And I am very glad with that ^^
LOL for Inter Milan.. they will never reach this highest competition ^^ Hope the special one can accept that was special won for MU :tong: Well done Sir Alex ^^
Are you sleeping? Special won? Won against Inter special? Hueksss!!!! :yuck:
How can you think like that? If MU couldn't win against Inter, that would be disaster for them! A win against Inter for MU ist just a routine, something that you don't notice that you have already won over Inter. :D :D :D
Selamat jeng Gunnernya melaju ke babak berikutnya. :5ok:
Are you sleeping? Special won? Won against Inter special? Hueksss!!!! :yuck:
How can you think like that? If MU couldn't win against Inter, that would be disaster for them! A win against Inter for MU ist just a routine, something that you don't notice that you have already won over Inter. :D :D :D
Selamat jeng Gunnernya melaju ke babak berikutnya. :5ok:
LOL.. :D not my intention to defend on Printer Milan.. but.. Jose has good record against Sir Alex.. before this match he just lost 1 game (combined from when he was Chelsea manager and Porto manager) from total 13 matches. So its gonna be personal achievement for Sir Alex.. but for sure MU is way too far for Printer Milan :tong:
ps. TENTULAH.. ARSENAL KU OKEH PUNYA :tong:
You guys make some god points, but when Italy won the world cup it was down to good management, the team being galvanised by the scandal and brave performances from people like Pirlo and Grosso. There is no doubt the Italians will try to come back fighting next year, but can they?
You need the foundations to be there. The English have even bigger egos than the Italians, just read some of the press. When they didnt have the best players or the structure in place, Manchester United used to struggle in the group stages. Now a lesser byt similar thing is happening to Italian sides.
If an Italian team will win the CL next year, which one will it be? Apart from Milan the other sides have been really poor in Europe. Where as Man United and Liverpool have been winners and Chelsea and Arsenal finalists. Compare that to Roma and Inter and we are left lacking. Juves last final was a long time ago now and most of their protagonists that season are much older and slower or have been replaced by inferior players.
I dont doubt that Milan has the potential to come back next year and emulate the season after the uefa cup a few years back. But if the club doesnt make the right choices yet again which is likely then we could conitinue emulating Real Madrid's Galacticos.
If the Italians hope to fight over the next few years, then the league needs to take more responsibilty and increase security, professionalism and marketing. The fans need to be more reasonable, especially the fans of teams like Roma.
As far as the clubs, we need the Milans and Juves back.
Inter are doing their part by getting a world class manager world class strikers. they are even for the first time developing Italian youth in Santon and Ballotelli. A few more additions and they will be able to compete.
Milan and Juve need to go and get the George Weahs and PAvel Nedveds of the world rather than pinning hopes on past greats.
We also need clubs like Parma of the 90s back
As far as Im concerned teams like Fiorentina, Napoli and Udinese are doing one hell of a great job of unearthing those discoveries. Lets not forget Thuram, Cannavaro, Buffon all went from these kind of clubs.
We have to be back to compete in CL. If we can't compete to win it, let's not play it.
Inter could fight for CL someday if they don't change everything at the end of this season and if they can have a real tactic (because Mourinho doesn't have any real tactics set for Inter for moment).
Juventus are starting to build their new team. If they can bring Diego or Modric ... but I think they will need two more years to be back to a level allowing them to hope for a win in CL.
You have there the historical trio for CL from Italy.
Then, the last years, the fourth team was Roma, but they never were able to compete for a final win in CL. This year, Fiorentina showed they were far from that too. Lazio showed the same thing last year, and it was even worse for them as they played poorly all the year while they were in CL.
Serie A actually just needs to find back some regularity (which was destroyed by Calciopoli). EPL teams always go far in CL, not especially because their teams are better than all the other ones (they are strong, but I don't think Arsenal or Chelsea are better than Barcelona for example, but if Barcelona plays against Liverpool or MU at the next round, and if they are eliminated while Arsenal and Chelsea qualify, some people will say they are better than Barcelona, which is wrong), but more because after all these years of MU-Chelsea-Liverpool-Arsenal, these teams got the experience to go far. If Aston Villa qualifies for the next CL instead of Arsenal, I'm pretty sure they will fall in the group stage or in the first robin round game.
It's the same for all championships:
- France, why only Lyon can qualify for the round robin games ? They are not necessarly a lot better than Bordeaux for example. But these other French teams qualify one year for CL and the year after, they just qualify for UEFA Cup or nothing. So each time, you have different French teams with Lyon, so only Lyon is able to qualify.
- Germany, what happened when Bayern was out of CL ? Werder still has difficulties to pass the group stage (and they are often unlucky as they often have the most difficult group lol), other teams are a joke at this level.
- Netherlands, when PSV and/or Ajax are not there or in a good year, they have no team.
- Spain, except Barcelona nowadays and Madrid (who can't qualify for quarters finals anymore), the other teams often change actually ...
Italian teams not doing well doesn't mean that Serie A is not competitive. Just like Premier league team not doing well doesn't mean that Premier league sucks.
You are talking about two variables here: one is on a team-level, one is on a country-level. You canNOT generalize what happen on the team level to country level.
Exactly, especially when you consider there are only 1-2 English players in the starting line-up of those EPL teams, and not to forget their foreign coaches and owners ;)
Exactly, especially when you consider there are only 1-2 English players in the starting line-up of those EPL teams, and not to forget their foreign coaches and owners ;)
How many italians have we got in our starting lineup?
Nesta may never come back
Zambro over 30
Maldini about to retire
Bonera cant win a place in our starting lineup for long enough to count
Gatusso, I give you him
Pirlo, him too
Ambro, again over 30
Favalli, no words
Inzaghi, how long more?
Boriello, is he still alive
More importantly how many are we going to have in a couple of years?
How many italians have we got in our starting lineup?
Nesta may never come back
Zambro over 30
Maldini about to retire
Bonera cant win a place in our starting lineup for long enough to count
Gatusso, I give you him
Pirlo, him too
Ambro, again over 30
Favalli, no words
Inzaghi, how long more?
Boriello, is he still alive
More importantly how many are we going to have in a couple of years?
Over 30, but they are in the team ... ;)
Add Abbiati ...
The fact is that in most of our games, with the possible 6+5 rule, we could play ... most of the English teams couldn't, even with their benched players.
It's the same for Inter as well, even with their benched players, they couldn't play if this new rule was official.
Over 30, but they are in the team ... ;)
Add Abbiati ...
The fact is that in most of our games, with the possible 6+5 rule, we could play ... most of the English teams couldn't, even with their benched players.
It's the same for Inter as well, even with their benched players, they couldn't play if this new rule was official.
The point I was making about over 30 is that they wont or shouldnt be starters in a couple of years time. All our younger players who have the ability to command a starting place in our lineup are foreign.
The 6+5 rule isnt winning us any medals.
Inter have Ballotelli and Santon, which teenage Italians do we have that we would be confident to start in a derby or against Man United?
Man United have Rooney, Carrick, Ferdinand and as usual they have a couple of young players who are pretty close to the first team and yes English.
The point is, we dont really have the right to brag about our team having an Italian identity. the management has done nothing for this to continue.
What Galliani co. did in Carlo era to make Milan have italian identity were :
1. buying not-cheap but quality players like Nesta, Inzaghi, Pirlo and Gilardino
2. taking free transfer players or cheap players but experienced ones like Pancaro, Favalli, etc.
3. buying prospected and cheap players (but not very young) and growing up these players like Gattuso, Bonera, etc.
4. bringing ex. Primavera players (fresh from Primavera or loaned-out players) like Ambrosini, Antonini, etc.
Point 1 and 2 (especially 1) are difficult to do today as Milan are not ready to splash money and there are not as many as before quality players who are italian. The second point is due to our condition which needs younger and fresher players. The possible ways are to buy prospected players and utilise our youth teams. But the last one is like an impossible thing just because our young players (from youth team) especially italian ones are bad (or even very bad). The results of youth sector speak for it.
So, the most possible way is to buy prospected (U-23 or so) players and grow them up. But with this way, we won't be able to have a real italian identity by having italian players as starters as these players will be suitable as substitutes, not ready materials.
In the coming years, it will be very possible that there will be few italian players or even no one in our first-team players (starters) unless Milan change their transfer policy and/or developing youth sectors.
You know, almost all our players loaned or in co-ownership are Italian ... and they are at least 10. Of course, they are not all to the Milan level, but there are 4-5 players who could come back, as subs at start of course, and pretend to a starting spot sooner or later.
That said, to reply K77SH C, these over 30 players are not our future, of course, but they are currently in our team, and if you look at the last 10 years, we often bought players who were more than 27-28 (or even over 30), more often than U25 players ... except if we change our strategy, for 5 players who are over 30 who leave for example, the club will buy 3 players who are 30 or just over, 1 player over 25, and one player between 20 and 25. So even if the Ambrosini and co won't play anymore for us if this 6+5 rule becomes official, I'm pretty sure they will be replaced by other Italian players.
In the coming years, it will be very possible that there will be few italian players or even no one in our first-team players (starters) unless Milan change their transfer policy and/or developing youth sectors.
You can still give 2-3 years to Pirlo and Gattuso.
If Borriello stays, and if no other striker (Italian or not) comes, you also can give him 5 more years here, and probably some chances to prove himself as a starter, probably alongside Pato.
You can of course count Abbiati in the team for 2-3 more years too.
Who knows if Bonera won't explode (we thought that would happen after his last performances of last year but his injuries again wasted his season) ? If he does, he could become a starter, and we can still give him 5-6 years in Milan.
So, for the 2-3 years coming, you have maybe 5 potential Italian starters. Of course, only if Pirlo and Gattuso can still do well, and if Borriello and Bonera show more.
Add to that some Italian players who could be bought this summer ...
PS: I don't speak about Zambrotta, I'm sure he could play 2-3 more years for us as a starter, but I would prefer thinking we will have a younger player up for the task before :D
Well Bayern Munich is going to win this years UCL so who cares which league is better Serie-A, EPL or La Liga :bri:
My Analysis, Why EPL is better!
EPL looks the best league mostly because of its coverage in English language and the Compact Stadia, unlike Italy and to some extent La Liga where you have Olympic type stadia which are not good for Football to be honest. The home grounds of Juve and Roma are awful imo :yuck: The fans in the stadia need to have binoculars to see whats happening on the pitch, because stands are that far. On TV, a neutral fan would like to see football being played in a compact stadium like Anfield etc :510: than the wide open stadia of Roma and Juve :p1510: That along with the coverage in English are the main reasons why people worldwide like to see EPL than Serie-A. Players and money has nothing to do with it. Man City has money, but they won't achieve much. So if you want to make Serie-A popular, then change the stadiums. Juve are doing it, so good for them. Roma, Lazio etc should also do it. Bayern did it some years ago and now they are much more attractive to watch on TV for neutrals Cool :cool:
Domination Cycle
As for 4 English teams in QFs of UCL, well it happens, so what? :devf:
-ACM dominating Europe in early 90's & Juve playing 3 UCL finals in row 1996-1998. Italian Domination
- In 1997, 2 German sides were the winners of UCL and UEFA Cup and none of them was Bayern Munich. Borussia Dortmund and Shalke 04 were the teams if I am not mistaken. Then Bayern played 2 UCL finals in 1999 and 2001. All pointing towards German Domination
- Then Real Madrid won 3 UCL in 5 seasons and semi finalist in 2003. Valencia playing 2 UCL finals. All Spanish final in 2000 and 3 Spanish sides in SF the same year. & the Barca winning in 2006 later on. All pointing towards Spanish Domination
- Then 3 Italian sides is last 4 of UCL 2003. All Italian final in 2003. ACM dominating Europe till 2007. All pointing towards Italian Domination.
- Now English teams are enjoying playing in UCL, so let them enjoy. Because it won't last for long. All it takes is 3-4 years for a change. Roman Abramovic will leave Chelsea. C.Ronaldo will join Real, Agger and Vidic will join ACM. Tevez will leave. Alonso to Juve, Febragas to Barca, Van Persi to Juve, Mascherano to Inter and so on. These are the things that will happen for sure :)
As for ACM, well once we change Carlo and bring in W.Schnyder, Zirkov, Vidic, Agger and Huntelaar etc, then no one will stop ACM from winning UCL 2009-2010
Don't worry guys, UCL is coming to its HOME in 2010, to the Red part of San Siro
:3band:
I wouldn't call EPL better but their top 4 are very strong (stronger than Italy or Spain). Their physical game (as much to everyone's disappointment) is coming out on top.
Their top teams are stronger than the top 4 anywhere else but on the down side their league is less exciting to watch, unfair, unequal etc. A blanket judgement for the entire league is wrong. Their 5th to mid-table level clubs are pretty bad compared to Serie A and La Liga. Even Germany isn't that skewed. It's not a surprise then that their teams usually suck at UEFA cup.
It's true Italian teams have failed but it's not like they were miles behind the English clubs. Juve were the better team over the two legs. Inter was bad only for the first 45 min at San Siro, they dominated the rest of the tie. Roma were bad at London but were good in Rome (in relative terms atleast). If anything, Spanish teams have been worse. Villareal barely scraped through against Panathanaikos, Real were smashed and Atletico also dropped out.
All of Inter, Roma and Juve missed many chances they shouldve put away comfortably. Things wouldve been very different then. Not to mention the injuries at both Inter and Juve.
Actually, and it's not easy to say, Inter was at the same level than MU ... they just miss a real striker, because Ibrahimovic may be the best player in the world (it's what Inter fans probably think), he misses too many chances, especially against the best teams.
Roma was at the same level than Arsenal, I think we can't say anything else when the game ends by 7-6 in penalties ... lol
Juventus wasn't as good as Chelsea, they actually lacked one thing: experience. Except Buffon-Chiellini-Del Piero (and Nedved but he only played 5 minutes and spent the 5 other minutes falling each time he touched the ball lol), most of the other players don't really know CL.
I don't know Geotav, I watched both legs of Juve-Chelsea and Inter-ManYoo, i thought the Italians were better. The only thing missing really is the killer punch, which English teams have in plenty through players like Cronaldo. Inter created a lot of pressure but failed inside the penalty area. Juve actually dominated the Stamford Bridge leg but were, as you said, lacking the ability to create something because of experience. Roma-Arsenal was a balanced tie. You have to accept, Arsenal were sh*t in the away tie.
Christian
14-03-2009, 17:18
Actually, and it's not easy to say, Inter was at the same level than MU ... they just miss a real striker, because Ibrahimovic may be the best player in the world (it's what Inter fans probably think), he misses too many chances, especially against the best teams.
Roma was at the same level than Arsenal, I think we can't say anything else when the game ends by 7-6 in penalties ... lol
Juventus wasn't as good as Chelsea, they actually lacked one thing: experience. Except Buffon-Chiellini-Del Piero (and Nedved but he only played 5 minutes and spent the 5 other minutes falling each time he touched the ball lol), most of the other players don't really know CL.
I agree with you and the dude, the difference between Juve/Chelsea, and Inter/Man Utdwas clearly that the Italian teams weren't as clinical. Inter missed loads of sitters, Cambiasso got the ball basicly on the goal line in the first game, messing it up and Ibrahimovic missed an absolute sitter of a header in the second game. Juventus were pretty much dominating both games, but then Chelsea all of the sudden scores on half a chance.
Zlatan is usually a very good finisher though, and he usually scores on chances like that. He just looked nervous in both games against Manchester United. Was like there was to much pressure on him, to many expactations, so he kept trying stuff beyond his abilities, like dribling the entire defence alone, and missed chances he'd usually put away. His record speaks for itself though, think the commentator said that he'd played 18(?) CL playoff games and never scored. That's a terrible record, even for a target man like him, who's job is more about laying off the ball, rather than poaching.
Zlatan is usually a very good finisher though, and he usually scores on chances like that. He just looked nervous in both games against Manchester United. Was like there was to much pressure on him, to many expactations, so he kept trying stuff beyond his abilities, like dribling the entire defence alone, and missed chances he'd usually put away. His record speaks for itself though, think the commentator said that he'd played 18(?) CL playoff games and never scored. That's a terrible record, even for a target man like him, who's job is more about laying off the ball, rather than poaching.
I just noticed that he often fails to do anything against excellent teams (so often against an excellent defence). But it's sure, once he has a little space to play, this player can do miracles.
About his record, that adds some weight to what I said: he isn't at his best in important games ...
So if he doesn't solve this problem, he will never get any individual trophy !!
^^ He has zero support though...Inter has no set playmaker or anything. If they can solve that problem then Zlatan will be a beast.
^^ He has zero support though...Inter has no set playmaker or anything. If they can solve that problem then Zlatan will be a beast.
Ibra has a poor record against all the big teams, just like C.Ronaldo had prior to CL final 2008. I was shocked to hear that Ibra has no goal in the knockout stages of CL. Its a humiliating stat to have and the worst thing about it is he is 27. I wouldn't put him among the very best players of the world. As for being a 'Beast', well I would prefare to call Adriano a beast if he regain his form of 2004-2005, when he could have scored from any where on the pitch. He was scary, only to be over shadowed by ACM's 76.
Boring draw in my opinion, Liverpool vs Chelsea again:rolleyes::grinser:
Villarreal v Arsenal
Manchester United v FC Porto
Liverpool v Chelsea
Barcelona v Bayern Munich
They must be sick of each other, 5 seasons in a row now.
Anyway Liverpool are looking immense ATM and I personally think it'll be a United vs Pool final.
Barca - Bayern Munchen will be a sick game I can't wait for it. Liverpool - Chelsea on the other hand...
Christian
20-03-2009, 22:00
Really hope Barcelona can win this. The kind of football they've played deserves trophies.
Dr Milano
22-03-2009, 16:39
Im a bit bitter on the fact that man united got a preferable draw and avoided the tougher sides ~
i hope barca can win it but bayern will be a tough game
Bayern Munich vs Man Utd for the final.
Sweet revenge for FC Hollywood. Perfect for UCL :pp20:
ThePowerofKaka
25-03-2009, 14:51
I think barca's gonna take the match against bayern, it will be tough...but we've played some great soccer. Go Messi!
Dr Milano
25-03-2009, 15:04
Barcelona vs Man United in the final _
For me _ although barcleona have an extremely tough way to get there by beating bayern or chelsea/lfc
whilst man united can just ease through fc porto an Okay side and villareal/arsenal nothing special
Christian
26-03-2009, 17:28
Barcelona vs Man United in the final _
For me _ although barcleona have an extremely tough way to get there by beating bayern or chelsea/lfc
whilst man united can just ease through fc porto an Okay side and villareal/arsenal nothing special
Yea, it's a terrible draw. I'd have to admit that i'd prefer that all the English teams would be send packing. Bayern and Barca seem like the two strongest non-English teams, so it's a terrible shame that they met eachother.
But maybe Villareal can pull of a surprise and knock out two English teams, they did draw twice against Man Utd. It would be nice with an all spanish final, entertaining stuff they play in Spain, especially compared to the catanocio reinvented they play in Englend.
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
14:45 ET Villarreal v Arsenal Estadio El Madrigal
14:45 ET Manchester United v FC Porto Old Trafford
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
14:45 ET Barcelona v Bayern Munich Estadio Camp Nou
14:45 ET Liverpool v Chelsea Anfield
One good match per matchday. Villarreal vs Arsenal looks to be a very attacking match. Arsenal have Fabregas back (notched up two assists on his return this weekend) as well as Adebayor.
Barcelona vs Bayern Munchen is obviously the highlight of the quarter finals. Bayern lost 5-1 this weekend so it's left to see how this loss affects them as they travel to the Nou Camp. Barca got a comfortable 1-0 win this weekend while resting Messi, Henry and Dani Alves so they'll be fresh for the match on Wednesday.
Chelsea - Liverpoop will probably be a snorefest as always, while I could care less about Manure and Porto. Would love to see Cristiano getting eliminated though.
Villareal 1-1 Arsenal
Manchester United 2-2 Porto
Why do I suddenly hope that the only English team qualified for the semi-finals will be Liverpool or Chelsea ? :D
Christian
08-04-2009, 11:43
Villareal 1-1 Arsenal
Manchester United 2-2 Porto
Why do I suddenly hope that the only English team qualified for the semi-finals will be Liverpool or Chelsea ? :D
I'm feeling the same way. I watched Manchester United - Porto yesterday, Porto was definetly the better side and were hard done. Somehow the referee missed a clear cut penalty for Porto, and then coupled with the novice mistake that Bruno Alvez made, ment they'd have to settle with the draw. Think we've been linked with Bruno Alvez before if I remember correctly, one mistake doesn't make him a bad player though.
Gonna be watching Barca - Bayern tonight, hoping for some Barca magic!
Ivanovich, another player we were to stingy to sign has just quadrupled in value.
I saw the Barcelona vs Bayern Munchen game...and what a game it was. Well a one-sided game anyway. Barcelona absolutely dominated the entire match there wasn't one player on the pitch for Barca who had a bad game.
One player I'd like to highlight though, isn't Messi or Eto'o...but Andres Iniesta. Absolutely marvelous player, excellent vision, pace, dribbling ability and passing range. Doesn't get the credit he deserves but doesn't cry about it either. Straight out of their youth system as well I think. Absolutely class CM.
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
Final Villarreal 1 - 1 Arsenal Quarter-finals El Madrigal (25,000)
Final Manchester United 2 - 2 FC Porto Quarter-finals Old Trafford (74,517)
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
Final Barcelona 4 - 0 Bayern Munich Quarter-finals Camp Nou (97,000)
Final Liverpool 1 - 3 Chelsea Quarter-finals Anfield (42,543)
I don't know why, but I'm suddenly hating ManU, I hope they get eliminated but most likely they'll go throw and then even reach the final, where they will be rightfully beaten by Barca!
Barcelona are the best side in the world no doubt. Excellent team. Xavi and Iniesta are brilliant; Messi, Eto'o, Henry are perfect, I think they just need to work on their defense and get a new GK. I like Puyol at LB, Alves is good, so I guess they need 2 CDs and a GK.
One player I'd like to highlight though, isn't Messi or Eto'o...but Andres Iniesta. Absolutely marvelous player, excellent vision, pace, dribbling ability and passing range. Doesn't get the credit he deserves but doesn't cry about it either. Straight out of their youth system as well I think. Absolutely class CM.
Well said. I lost count of how many times I praise Iniesta. I was just coming here to praise him and I found you writing this!
Oh and respect for Guus Hiddink. One of the best managers around, if not the best.
Makes me feel bad that we lost out on Ivanovic only to sign Senderros. :v46:
Iniesta is their "tempo player" ... he gives the good rythm, he is the true leader in midfield, probably more than Xavi.
The bad period of Barcelona was when Iniesta was injured, since he came back, everything has become ok again ...
About yesterday, we can also notice that the defence of Bayern was totally horrible: how can you allow Messi to control the ball, look around him and accelerate before trying to take him the ball (which is clearly impossible or almost this way) ?! Oddo could do nothing against Henry because Henry often came from the left to go in the GK area, and Demichelis never helped him, it was obvious that after 30 minutes, Oddo was out, tired, and he would suffer even more for the last 60 minutes ... what happened. He just showed us he couldn't be a solution for next season !! :D
And Demichelis-Breno was "ridiculous", even if the word is a bit hard when you know that in front of them, there were guys like Eto'o, Messi, Iniesta, etc, but if they didn't play, that couldn't have been worse.
Chelsea won 3-1 after Liverpool leaded 1-0 after 10 minutes ?! What happened ? I watched both games at the same times, Barca on TV quality and Liverpool on a poor stream quality ... and my eyes quickly stayed tuned on the TV :D (also because I don't care about Liverpool and Chelsea).
Too bad he goes unnoticed. He's tons better than Pirlo.
Bayern are flops. I don't follow them much so I don't know what's their main problem, but I think they should be leading the German Bundesliga while they aren't. Ribery needs to go and find a new team. Bayern have a bunch of good players, they just don't make a good team.
Too bad he goes unnoticed. He's tons better than Pirlo.
Bayern are flops. I don't follow them much so I don't know what's their main problem, but I think they should be leading the German Bundesliga while they aren't. Ribery needs to go and find a new team. Bayern have a bunch of good players, they just don't make a good team.
Pirlo and Iniesta are different players ... Pirlo tries to give the tempo with his passes and especially his long passes (so if nobody moves, he gives no tempo) whereas Iniesta is more an impact player for the entire game, he dribbles one opponent, gives the ball and continue to go forward (and eventually take the ball again to do again the same thing with another opponent).
Don't worry about Ribéry, his end in Bayern is near ... he never stayed as much in a club, he probably noticed yesterday that he was alone in that team, so he is going to ask for leaving at the end of the season to "I don't know where", he'll stay 2 years and will leave for another club ... this guy has no continuity in his head.
Pirlo and Iniesta are different players ... Pirlo tries to give the tempo with his passes and especially his long passes (so if nobody moves, he gives no tempo) whereas Iniesta is more an impact player for the entire game, he dribbles one opponent, gives the ball and continue to go forward (and eventually take the ball again to do again the same thing with another opponent).
Yeah but both are CM's who's biggest gifts are talent and creativity. So I'm just saying Iniesta deserves praise much more than Pirlo yet Pirlo gets all the praise despite being below par since the world cup.
Don't worry about Ribéry, his end in Bayern is near ... he never stayed as much in a club, he probably noticed yesterday that he was alone in that team, so he is going to ask for leaving at the end of the season to "I don't know where", he'll stay 2 years and will leave for another club ... this guy has no continuity in his head.
You know it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to sign him. I read somewhere that he was about to sign for us before Bayern (same with Toni), but Galliani stopped the move in the end because Milan don't use wingers. I think we should sell 'Dinho and if we get Ribery he could play with Kaka behind Pato in the X-mass tree. Of course I still want us to sign Adebayour, but I'm just saying this would give us more options. We already got Thiago Silva, so Adebayour + Ribery + New CD + Nesta back + new coach and we're fine I guess. Just my thoughts.
Yeah but both are CM's who's biggest gifts are talent and creativity. So I'm just saying Iniesta deserves praise much more than Pirlo yet Pirlo gets all the praise despite being below par since the world cup.
But Iniesta has the skills of an AM (which he is) playing as a CM because Barcelona is very attacking team. In Spanish NT, he plays more like an AM.
Pirlo is an AM who was put as a CM and who now plays as a DM ... he isn't able to dribble 5 players in a row, so it's more difficult for him to go forward.
Actually, if we want to compare them:
- Dribbling: Iniesta >>> Pirlo
- Short passing: Iniesta = Pirlo
- Long passing: Iniesta <<< Pirlo
You know it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to sign him. I read somewhere that he was about to sign for us before Bayern (same with Toni), but Galliani stopped the move in the end because Milan don't use wingers. I think we should sell 'Dinho and if we get Ribery he could play with Kaka behind Pato in the X-mass tree. Of course I still want us to sign Adebayour, but I'm just saying this would give us more options. We already got Thiago Silva, so Adebayour + Ribery + New CD + Nesta back + new coach and we're fine I guess. Just my thoughts.
I don't like Ribéry so I will say no ... don't get me wrong, he's an amazing player, but I don't like him as a person. And the main problem is that Ribéry is at his best on the left side, as Kaka', as Pato ... we need a player who would be able to go sometimes on the right actually.
Eto'o or Rossi in attack, or other players in midfield, when Gourcuff comes from the center of the midfield, he more often goes on the right for example (it's what happens with Bordeaux).
But Iniesta has the skills of an AM (which he is) playing as a CM because Barcelona is very attacking team. In Spanish NT, he plays more like an AM.
Pirlo is an AM who was put as a CM and who now plays as a DM ... he isn't able to dribble 5 players in a row, so it's more difficult for him to go forward.
Actually, if we want to compare them:
- Dribbling: Iniesta >>> Pirlo
- Short passing: Iniesta = Pirlo
- Long passing: Iniesta <<< Pirlo
Owned. :)
I don't like Ribéry so I will say no ... don't get me wrong, he's an amazing player, but I don't like him as a person. And the main problem is that Ribéry is at his best on the left side, as Kaka', as Pato ... we need a player who would be able to go sometimes on the right actually.
Eto'o or Rossi in attack, or other players in midfield, when Gourcuff comes from the center of the midfield, he more often goes on the right for example (it's what happens with Bordeaux).
You clearly got a point. May I know why you dislike him as a person? Your location says France!
You clearly got a point. May I know why you dislike him as a person? Your location says France!
I'm from France but I dislike many players from France and I criticize a lot more French players than foreigners on this forum !! :D
I think most of the best French players are very arrogant, but like I said once, maybe it's because our reputation is true ? ^^
I don't like Ribéry because this guy was modest when he was still in Marseille but he changed when his status changed (on the pitch and outside the pitch) ... I mean, since he is called "Kaiser Franck" in Bayern and since French medias try to make him becoming THE superstar or the new Zidane, or even Jesus :D, and like he seems to enjoy playing the game of medias, he has become very irritating !!
And another problem is that he speaks a very bad French and that's pretty boring because they ask him more and more questions about more and more things (not only about football, soon they're going to ask him what he thinks about the current crisis whereas the guy never went to school !!).
What a match, gives all defenders and especially goalies a bad name lol. Did Cech even cleanly catch a single ball today?
Wow, I chose to watch the Barca match instead because the one Chelsea - Liverpool match I watched scarred me for life. Was the defending so bad?
Alex did his best Roberto Carlos impression with his freekick but otherwise the defenders were nothing to write home about, of course the goalies didn't help at all.
Saw Bayern highlights and that Toni miss was very :1whis: hehe
Actually, the defenders were poor, but even the tactics were poor: no construction. It was everything about counter-attacking for both sides, nothing prepared.
So it was a good entertainment (for once, I have to admit it, it's the first time I enjoyed a game between two English teams, and I think it's thanks to Liverpool, it looks like they did several games like that this year), but if you watch this game with a tactical point of view, it was horrible from both teams and especially their defenders. Actually, I could even add that if one of the teams had been able to build their actions, that could have been a 8-4 score.
the tactics were poor
I absolutely disaggree. For me, last night match Chelsea vs Pool was mainly only about tactic and strategy. Both coaches are excellent at tactic and strategy.
Christian
15-04-2009, 12:33
I think this article sums it up pretty nicely: Goal.com (http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2009/04/15/1209470/cl-comment-how-bad-football-made-chelsea-liverpool-the-best-game-)
It was a very entertaining game, but both teams were so poor, except a few players like Drogba and Lampard. They ran their asses off, but had a hard time getting two succesfull passes in a row, looked like a second division game to be honost. Cech and Reina were rediculess, did any of them actually save anything?? And really what happened to Cech? He was so good a few years ago, now he's bad, really bad. He was a mess in the Juventus games aswell.
Sigh...that's that. Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona have qualified for the semifinals. Three EPL teams in the semis again with Barcelona as the only non-English team. Here are the results from this week's and last week's matches:
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
Final Villarreal 1 - 1 Arsenal Quarter-finals Estadio El Madrigal (25,000)
Final Manchester United 2 - 2 FC Porto Quarter-finals Old Trafford (74,517)
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
Final Barcelona 4 - 0 Bayern Munich Quarter-finals Estadio Camp Nou (97,000)
Final Liverpool 1 - 3 Chelsea Quarter-finals Anfield (42,543)
Tuesday, April 14, 2009
Final Chelsea 4 - 4 Liverpool Quarter-finals Stamford Bridge (38,286)
Final Bayern Munich 1 - 1 Barcelona Quarter-finals Allianz-Arena (65,000)
Wednesday, April 15, 2009
Final Arsenal 3 - 0 Villarreal Quarter-finals Emirates Stadium (58,233)
Final FC Porto 0 - 1 Manchester United Quarter-finals Estadio do Dragao (50,000)
Wasn't that last year semifinal like this (Arsenal, Barca, MU and Chelsea) but with different matches?
Last year was Liverpool - Chelsea, MU - Barca. Year before was Milan - MU, Chelsea - Liverpool
Ah ok, thanks. So, this is the second time for Barca to be the only non-english team in semifinal in two years.
cescvanpersie
15-04-2009, 19:30
Loved this game, we controled everything. Our second goal came at the right time, just when Villa real were getting a bit of the possesion we nailed them with our second.
Walcott and Cesc, just too much. Cesc's touch for Walcott's goal was exquisite.
Now we face Man Ure, hopefully we have a full squad for them, but first we concentrade on Chelsea for the FA cup semis on saturday.
Some big games coming up for Arsenal. Good to see English teams dominating the champions league once more. Seems Barca are the only other team willing to step up. Real Madrid are shocking, Inter Milan are poor, Roma was a close shave for us. But we allowed them into the game we should have killed them in the 1st leg.
Looking forward to how AC do next season.
And Song seems to have replaced Flamini quite easily for now :)
cescvanpersie
15-04-2009, 19:31
Also can't wait for next season when Arshavin gets to play in the Champions League on a good side :p
Zenit were never going to make a show of it now were they?
Will not get past United.
Dr Milano
18-04-2009, 17:44
Hoping Barca win it _ although english teams have been rather dominant milan won it in 07 being the non english team and if barca were to repeat that in 09 it would shut up andy gray, graeme souness and co _ all jerk offs
They are just morons, why don't leave them alone?
I watch most of Barca games in La Liga, and despite a few slip-ups, they make me shudder sometimes. It seems that they can score anytime they want to. But even if they get to the final, I think they'll be more cautious (which is quite normal as the chance to play on UCL final doesn't come very often) just like what they did against Arsenal a couple of years ago.
I believe they everything that is needed to make Andy Gray & co leave with the tail between the legs again
Christian
22-04-2009, 08:14
I watch most of Barca games in La Liga, and despite a few slip-ups, they make me shudder sometimes. It seems that they can score anytime they want to. But even if they get to the final, I think they'll be more cautious (which is quite normal as the chance to play on UCL final doesn't come very often) just like what they did against Arsenal a couple of years ago.
I believe they everything that is needed to make Andy Gray & co leave with the tail between the legs again
Yup, Barcelona are amazing. Would really love if they gave Chelsea a big spanking, like they did to Bayern Munich, and honostly I wouldn't be to surprised. Chelsea are a good team, no doubt, and who knows, they might be able to break down Barce's game, but watching Barcelona, you always have a feeling that they have an extra gear that they can go in whenever they need to, like the first half against Bayern.
Also no team has broken down Barcelona this season, the few loses have been with injuries or second string players and Chelsea might be a physical team, but so are Bayern.
Chelsea might be a physical team, but so are Bayern.
I think, Chelsea have much more chance than Bayern had against Barca. The quality of the players especially the coach are so different. Without Lucio and Lahm (who were very important in the second match in Munich) in the first leg in Barcelona, Bayern were very much weaker compare to Chelsea.
Christian
22-04-2009, 08:52
I agree Chelsea are much better than Bayern, and Hiddink is 10 times the coach of Klinsmann, at least... But this Barcelona team is just so strong, and they've been untouchable this season except for the slip ups in the first games, and the slip ups when Iniesta was out a couple of months ago.
Brasileiro
22-04-2009, 10:25
Imo, Chelsea is the first real test for this amazing Barcelona team.
After watched a lot of Bayern game sin Budesliga, it was clear they don´t have chance against Barça.
Chelsea isn´t technical as Barça, but is also a technical team. on the other hand, Chelsea is so physical(ask Arsenal last weekend) that I´m curious to see how some Barca players will react. Every time that my Brazil NT became real physical against Messi he disappear...and it was with Gilberto and Gilberto Silva...Chelsea has much more quality and power.
Now, in the first leg Chelsea is missing A. Cole, and I´m curious to see who Hiddink will put as left-back...Manssiene(sp?)?? Carvalho?? Ivanovic at the left?? That´s a real problem to need that improvise against the best right side of the world(Messi/Alves)
Also, despite Messi, Etoo, Iniesta, Xavi get all the headlines(deservedly), the player that changed this team is Daniel Alves. It´s not coincidence that he´s always challenging Messi as the best on the pitch...
Man, it will be a amazing game...
Yeah great game tonight. Really looking forward to seeing how will Hiddink stop Barca. There are few coaches in the world that can do that and I think Hiddink is one of them.
Chelsea are underdogs, especially in Barcelona, and Hiddink loves to be an underdog. Watch out, Guardiola!
Michel de Nostredame, aka GeoTav, any predictions? :grinser:
Brasileiro
28-04-2009, 13:18
I´not that good as GeoTav, but I´m predicting a 2X2...or 2X1
As expected Chelsea have 20 men behind the ball and are playing on the counter. Also as expected Barca's horrible CB's gifted Drogba a chance but he missed it. Barca have also been able to get into the box a couple times but have been hesitant to shoot. Something Guardiola will have to address at HT.
Second half beginning now.
Imo, Chelsea is the first real test
Nothing more clear than that. We could see the difference between Bayern and Chelsea. :)
Chelsea didn't even attempt to play any football though. All eleven players in their half, boot the ball out at the first opportunity. Those were the tactics.
Brasileiro
28-04-2009, 17:06
Nothing more clear than that. We could see the difference between Bayern and Chelsea. :)
Yep, Bayern isn´t the same even in Bundesliga.
Imo, Hiddink did the right thing. It´s crazy to play open football against Barça "midgets"...even more in a big field like Camp Nuo.
And this game, as last year against Manchester, is why I always said Messi still has to much to prove in Footaball. He needs to do what Kaká did in the near past...To lead his team to a important title...
Even the Spanish title is in jeopardy, and he needs to lead his team to a title before people claim him a GOD as I saw in football boards.
Look, he´s a Top-3 without a doubt, but like in the past years, Messi still "disappear" at the end of season(imo). Even at the Olympics, when the best/decisive player was Di Maria...
Don´t need to be harsh on me, Messi fans, but the guy still need to be the leader of a Title to claim the POY...
Christian
28-04-2009, 17:16
Honostly I couldn't help but feeling a bit suspect towards the referee during the Barcelona - Chelsea game.
The reason is that after the first Chelsea - Liverpool game, the Referee of the game, Claus Bo Larsen, told Danish television that he had been approach by a Chelsea offical who had told him that he wouldn't like certain Chelsea players getting booked because they were one booking away from getting a match ban, much similar to what got us involved in Calciopoli. Now this was something the referee said in an interview, and seeing as he has absolutly no reason to make things up, I don't suspect it's not true.
Now during the game I found loads of decisions going Chelsea's way. The fact that Barcelona got as many yellow cards as Chelsea, despite Chelsea commiting 20+ free kicks against Barcelona's 6 speaks for itself. The episode where Ballack got dribbled by Iniesta towards the end of the game, stopped him by pulling him, taking away a goal oppertunity is something that 99% off all referee's would've given a yellow card for, since there was whistled for a free kick, yet no card was shown. This would've been his second booking.
A strong case could be made for Henry getting a penalty, but that isn't really what I found appaling. It was more the fact that he didn't give yellow cards in situations where he SHOULD give yellow cards, because it's just the rules, not down to a certain referee's preferences. Situationes where Chelsea players stopped Barcelona players delibratly taking away goal opportunity's. Another example would be when Yaya Toure was booked for arguing, Essien I think had stopped a Barcelona player delibratly on a counter attack, this should be a yellow card, but as in so many other cases wasn't handed out.
The other explanation is that the referee simply doesn't know the rules, whatever it is, i can't help but think about the claims of Claus Bo Larsen.
Those were the tactics.
Very clever tactic. Barca still have many to prove under Guardiola especially in Champions League.
If Chelse had player like Kaka, Pato or other who is fast and can run with the ball, it would be nice to watch Barca's defence. :D
Honostly I couldn't help but feeling a bit suspect towards the referee during the Barcelona - Chelsea game.
The reason is that after the first Chelsea - Liverpool game, the Referee of the game, Claus Bo Larsen, told Danish television that he had been approach by a Chelsea offical who had told him that he wouldn't like certain Chelsea players getting booked because they were one booking away from getting a match ban, much similar to what got us involved in Calciopoli. Now this was something the referee said in an interview, and seeing as he has absolutly no reason to make things up, I don't suspect it's not true.
Now during the game I found loads of decisions going Chelsea's way. The fact that Barcelona got as many yellow cards as Chelsea, despite Chelsea commiting 20+ free kicks against Barcelona's 6 speaks for itself. The episode where Ballack got dribbled by Iniesta towards the end of the game, stopped him by pulling him, taking away a goal oppertunity is something that 99% off all referee's would've given a yellow card for, since there was whistled for a free kick, yet no card was shown. This would've been his second booking.
A strong case could be made for Henry getting a penalty, but that isn't really what I found appaling. It was more the fact that he didn't give yellow cards in situations where he SHOULD give yellow cards, because it's just the rules, not down to a certain referee's preferences. Situationes where Chelsea players stopped Barcelona players delibratly taking away goal opportunity's. Another example would be when Yaya Toure was booked for arguing, Essien I think had stopped a Barcelona player delibratly on a counter attack, this should be a yellow card, but as in so many other cases wasn't handed out.
The other explanation is that the referee simply doesn't know the rules, whatever it is, i can't help but think about the claims of Claus Bo Larsen.
Actually the referee was not that good, Puyol should be given red card (second yellow card) when he tackled Malouda. Alibi can be found easily but the fact is still the same, Hiddink 'won' the game in Barcelona with his clever tactic.
Christian
28-04-2009, 17:55
Actually the referee was not that good, Puyol should be given red card (second yellow card) when he tackled Malouda. Alibi can be found easily but the fact is still the same, Hiddink 'won' the game in Barcelona with his clever tactic.
Honostly i didn't take note of such a tackle, I did think his yellow card was harsh CONSIDERING the way the referee had been calling the shots all game though. Perhaps I was looking at it a bit biased, cause the way I saw it the ref had a clear bias aswell.
I just don't understand why people are going on about this being a complete failure for Barca. Yes they should've won, but honostly' doesn't a 0-0 favour Barcelona? Considering Chelsea didn't get an away goal. Chelea needs to score, and except for the Marquez slipup they weren't remotly close this game. Surely they can't stand with 10 men defending at their own stadium? The biggest concern for Barcelona though, is that they're most likely gonna have to field Caceras, who's a disaster to say the least.
Barcelona has been as good away as they have at home this season, and it wasn't like Chelsea shut Barcelona completly down, they did create good chances considering some key players was simply having an offday. Daniel Alves as an eksampel, who has been one of their most important players this season had a really bad day, not cause of Chelsea I think, cause his passing and particularly crossing was much worse than what we usually see from him. Also they can potentially have sealed the La Liga by next week, IF they beat Real Madrid, and that would without a doubt, except for perhaps the physical aspect, be a big boost for them.
and yes Hiddink no doubt, once again got it right.
Brasileiro
28-04-2009, 17:56
Actually the referee was not that good, Puyol should be given red card (second yellow card) when he tackled Malouda. Alibi can be found easily but the fact is still the same, Hiddink 'won' the game in Barcelona with his clever tactic.
One more time, I agree Siregar...
The referee did suspect decisions for both sides.
Chelsea did what Internacional did in WC Club final against Barça, when Pato was still a Inter player. Press Barça midfield at their side and of the pitch. Few teams can match Barca midfield speed The diference was that at that time, Adriano Gabiru had a chance like Drogba today, but did better and score. Result: Internacional(and Pato) champion.
The second half Chelsea(more fatigued) let Barça to play in their side of the pitch, and it was the time of Barca best chances. Hiddink did the right thing, and if Lampard had a good day, they could have done better at the counter...
^^ I wouldn't say they won anything though. One away goal in England (a very doable task) and Chelsea are in a heap of trouble. Bojan won't miss a header like that in England nor will Henry or Eto'o miss those chances again. Chelsea will have to open up eventually, they won't play for penalties.
That was actually not a complete failure of Barca nor Chelsea have won, that's why I used ' ' outside of word : won. This is a two games of round, so there is still so big chance of Barca to go through. But still Hiddink get the credit since Chelsea could hold Barca who are the favorite team to win this championship especially they played like in the training when they faced Bayern or Lyon in Barcelona. What I want to say is just like Brasileiro said : Chelsea is the real test for Barca.
Actually, in this game, despite the very bad decisions from the referee (Alex and Ballack should have received red cards, as well as Puyol), the worst was the game itself ... it's exactly what I thought, this game was pretty boring.
And I was sure about that since the first minutes: Barcelona played slowly, there were missed passes, Chelsea was obviously there not to concede a goal (and trying to counter attack sometimes), after 5 minutes, it was like if you had seen the entire game.
This home game from Barcelona looked like their games against Manchester last year: it was like if both teams didn't want to create too much rythm (and of course, by playing this game, Barcelona is less dangerous).
I think Chelsea will attack a bit more next week as a draw can eliminate them (if it's a draw with goals). So it could be a good game.
For the Manchester versus Arsenal game, I don't expect anything.
PS: Please, no Manchester - Chelsea final again !!
Hiddink's tactics was excellent. There is one very interesting info. This season, every team that came to Barcelona conceded at least 1 goal. Chelsea didn't.
Barca was too slow in midfield, Messi didn't brake Bosingwa once on the wing, later he tried to go through the middle...I hoped for a great game, full of goals, attractions and such..but the Dutch gave Guardiola's "total football" something to think about..
Barca has a better team, Chelsea has a great, experienced coach...I would like for Barca to go through, but it will be hard for them, especially without Puyol and Marquez..
Can Milito(??) and Pique stop Drogba and Anelka at Stamford bridge stadium? I don't think so.
Coming to the Nou Camp and parking a massive blue bus in front of the goal wouldn't qualify as excellent tactics in my book. It's the same thing small teams do week in, week out. The only difference is Eto'o and Henry didn't take their chances this week.
If Hiddink opens up at home against Barcelona then I'm sure Barca will get at least one away goal.
Brasileiro
29-04-2009, 12:37
^^ I wouldn't say they won anything though. One away goal in England (a very doable task) and Chelsea are in a heap of trouble. Bojan won't miss a header like that in England nor will Henry or Eto'o miss those chances again. Chelsea will have to open up eventually, they won't play for penalties.
...and I completely agree. This leg is far from over. My(and Siregar) point was that it was the first time Barca would be facing a real strong team.
As Brazilian, I like it much more the style of Barcelona, but after the rubbish whining that I´m reading in papers of Iniesta, Xavi, Guardiola and Pique, I´n now wanting Chelsea to win...
It´s like when Brazil NT play here against any team other than Uruguai and Argentine. Everyone know the team would hold behind and use the counter...
So, Brazil draw, and the rubbish excuses starts...To hear Guardiola yesterday, is like to hear Dunga after these games...Pathetic.
If you can´t score, give the praise to the team that execute the plan better.
Christian
29-04-2009, 12:45
...and I completely agree. This leg is far from over. My(and Siregar) point was that it was the first time Barca would be facing a real strong team.
As Brazilian, I like it much more the style of Barcelona, but after the rubbish whining that I´m reading in papers of Iniesta, Xavi, Guardiola and Pique, I´n now wanting Chelsea to win...
It´s like when Brazil NT play here against any team other than Uruguai and Argentine. Everyone know the team would hold behind and use the counter...
So, Brazil draw, and the rubbish excuses starts...To hear Guardiola yesterday, is like to hear Dunga after these games...Pathetic.
If you can´t score, give the praise to the team that execute the plan better.
Well as a fan I also find Chelsea's appoach pathetic... I'm glad Milan never play like this, and it's one of the reason I'll always support the Rossoneri. Chelsea is a big club, and yes, playing like that was probably the only way that Chelsea could get anything from the game, so fair enough, but that's only because Barcelona is simply a better team, pure and simply... Chelsea were lucky to DRAW, really lucky.
Had they been a truely great team, then they would've been able to play Barcelona's game and then won... All the great teams in history have played like that, I've never seen Brazil take Chelsea's approach, nor Milan, and it'll be a sad day when I do.
Brasileiro
29-04-2009, 12:51
Actually, in this game, despite the very bad decisions from the referee (Alex and Ballack should have received red cards, as well as Puyol), the worst was the game itself ... it's exactly what I thought, this game was pretty boring.
And I was sure about that since the first minutes: Barcelona played slowly, there were missed passes, Chelsea was obviously there not to concede a goal (and trying to counter attack sometimes), after 5 minutes, it was like if you had seen the entire game.
This home game from Barcelona looked like their games against Manchester last year: it was like if both teams didn't want to create too much rythm (and of course, by playing this game, Barcelona is less dangerous).
I think Chelsea will attack a bit more next week as a draw can eliminate them (if it's a draw with goals). So it could be a good game.
For the Manchester versus Arsenal game, I don't expect anything.
PS: Please, no Manchester - Chelsea final again !!
GeoTav, it´s not because I´m a fan of Alex, but he did one foul woth of a yellow(in Messi) and was deservedly booked. But I can´t remember the second worth of a yellow?? Tell me what other Alex foul was...
In Ballack case I agree, he did 3 fouls that are were worth of a yellow. But at the same time, Pujol(sp?) did 2, and only receive one yellow. As I said, the referee did wrong decisions in both ways...
I now want a Chelsea - Arsenal final. I didn´t want another English final, but one more time, the arrogance of Barça players(fans, press) makes me sick.
It was like when we(Milan) played them in the near past...everyone is THE EVIL and they are the saints of football. Only they know how to play, and the others are just anti-footballl. They like Spanish teams(and referees) that let them play free and give every penalty possible.
Every time they face a tough (not disloyal) team,the same lame excuses emerges :angf:
Brasileiro
29-04-2009, 13:04
Well as a fan I also find Chelsea's appoach pathetic... I'm glad Milan never play like this, and it's one of the reason I'll always support the Rossoneri. Chelsea is a big club, and yes, playing like that was probably the only way that Chelsea could get anything from the game, so fair enough, but that's only because Barcelona is simply a better team, pure and simply... Chelsea were lucky to DRAW, really lucky.
Had they been a truely great team, then they would've been able to play Barcelona's game and then won... All the great teams in history have played like that, I've never seen Brazil take Chelsea's approach, nor Milan, and it'll be a sad day when I do.
To be fair, Christian...
Chelsea didn´t create because Lampard, Essien and Ballack were horrible last night. The plan of Hiddink was clear: Sit back, and explore the counters. But Chelsea midfield can´t make a right pass last night...
And regarding your point about Milan(agree 100%), they were saying the same thing about us some years ago. That we are(like any Italian team) a catenaccio(sp?) team, and that it was the beauty Barca against the beast Milan.
And if it wasn´t for that clean goal of Sheva that referee called a foul...we, and not they would go to that Final against Arsenal. I can´t remeber anyone from Barça whining that time...
Well, their most important papers, Sport and Mundo Deportivo, really shows the type of mentality that rule´s Barcelona heads. They are more rubbish than Brazilian Political´s papers...and I thought that wans´t possible...
GeoTav, it´s not because I´m a fan of Alex, but he did one foul woth of a yellow(in Messi) and was deservedly booked. But I can´t remember the second worth of a yellow?? Tell me what other Alex foul was...
In Ballack case I agree, he did 3 fouls that are were worth of a yellow. But at the same time, Pujol(sp?) did 2, and only receive one yellow. As I said, the referee did wrong decisions in both ways...
I now want a Chelsea - Arsenal final. I didn´t want another English final, but one more time, the arrogance of Barça players(fans, press) makes me sick.
Alex also made a foul on Henry that was worth another yellow card then.
As I said, there should have been 3 red cards (or 6 yellow cards for 3 players :D). About Ballack, it's not only about his fouls (I even think the one on Iniesta at the end wasn't a real foul), but more because of the way he always protests with the referees, it's quite irritating.
About Barca players, I don't think they are arrogant, but some of their fans are and press is too especially the years they play so well (but it doesn't happen each year).
Brasileiro
29-04-2009, 13:45
Alex also made a foul on Henry that was worth another yellow card then.
As I said, there should have been 3 red cards (or 6 yellow cards for 3 players :D). About Ballack, it's not only about his fouls (I even think the one on Iniesta at the end wasn't a real foul), but more because of the way he always protests with the referees, it's quite irritating.
About Barca players, I don't think they are arrogant, but some of their fans are and press is too especially the years they play so well (but it doesn't happen each year).
It was that in the air?? When Henry landed knocked out?? If thats the case, Imo it was a clear accident, since it was Alex shoulder that hit Henry´s head. I never saw a hit like that, very unfortunate...
Now, if It was the case of Alex leading with his elbow, and hit Henry even without intention, I would have agree it was worth a yellow...
Regarding the second bold: I thought like you, but after the interviews last night, I changed my opinion. Messi was invisible because every time he cut inside, there was Mikel, Alex, Terry there to stop him. Chelsea wasn´t violent last night, they were just tough.
Barca players were used to past easy of everyone in Spain and in their easy schedule in Champions(No offense, but it wasn´t the Lyon I used to see)...and now that they take the first real test of the season: the whining started.
As I said, it´s just my opinion, but Barca player quotes last night and today, are typical of people that think they are best than everyone. Very arrogant imo...
Christian
29-04-2009, 14:50
To be fair, Christian...
Chelsea didn´t create because Lampard, Essien and Ballack were horrible last night. The plan of Hiddink was clear: Sit back, and explore the counters. But Chelsea midfield can´t make a right pass last night...
And regarding your point about Milan(agree 100%), they were saying the same thing about us some years ago. That we are(like any Italian team) a catenaccio(sp?) team, and that it was the beauty Barca against the beast Milan.
And if it wasn´t for that clean goal of Sheva that referee called a foul...we, and not they would go to that Final against Arsenal. I can´t remeber anyone from Barça whining that time...
Well, their most important papers, Sport and Mundo Deportivo, really shows the type of mentality that rule´s Barcelona heads. They are more rubbish than Brazilian Political´s papers...and I thought that wans´t possible...
I see your point about them being a bit arrogant when things are going their way, but about Chelsea I do agree with them. Barcelona ARE the most impressive team at the moment, and to be fair, it does give them a right to be arrogant.
About when we played them in 2006, I can't remember what they were saying after, or before the game. I do remember though that it was a couple of absolutly amazing games, despite the outcome. We were absolutly amazing at the time, with Pirlo, Kaka and Shevchenko being at the top of their game, and Barcelona with Ronaldinho being fantastic. People talk about Chelsea-Liverpool being the best game off the last 10 years or so, I think the Milan - Barcelona games were the best.
It is ofcourse annoying having them saying stuff like that about us. But the brittish media are just as bad. The fact that some of them still talk about Serie A teams playing Catanoccio speaks volumes... Especially considering the trend in EPL at the moment (I remember a period where Liverpool had played 8 out of 13 games 0-0). Ferguson's latest comments are disrespectfull aswell in my opinion, and so is the general trend of the Island.
I see your point about them being a bit arrogant when things are going their way, but about Chelsea I do agree with them. Barcelona ARE the most impressive team at the moment, and to be fair, it does give them a right to be arrogant.
A right to be arrogant ? The years when we were the most impressive team in CL, were we arrogant ?
Christian
29-04-2009, 15:58
A right to be arrogant ? The years when we were the most impressive team in CL, were we arrogant ?
No ofcourse we weren't. But what I'm saying is, that being abit arrogant, when they actually are the best, is ok, to me, as opposed to the arrogant English media, who have always been like that. Cristiano Ronaldo has for the last 3 years changed his name to 'The world's best player' in the English media, Peter Crouch is the best striker in the world according to them, while Gerrard is the biggest thing since Maradona and that's only cause Maradona scored against England (the greatest team in the world). When Merda was playing Manchester United they were mocking Zlatan Ibramimovic, I know he's playing for the wrong team, but he's good, REALLY good.
Brasileiro
29-04-2009, 17:21
No ofcourse we weren't. But what I'm saying is, that being abit arrogant, when they actually are the best, is ok, to me, as opposed to the arrogant English media, who have always been like that. Cristiano Ronaldo has for the last 3 years changed his name to 'The world's best player' in the English media, Peter Crouch is the best striker in the world according to them, while Gerrard is the biggest thing since Maradona and that's only cause Maradona scored against England (the greatest team in the world). When Merda was playing Manchester United they were mocking Zlatan Ibramimovic, I know he's playing for the wrong team, but he's good, REALLY good.
I know what you mean, typical English media: "Rooney could be better than Pelé"...LOL
Back to the Chelsea X Barca match...Before the final of the last America Cup, Argentine press was mocking all Brazilian NT team, saying they would trash Brazil and that no one could stop Messi, Riquelme and Tevez, blá, blá, blá...
They(Argentine) were amazing in that America´s Cup...but like Barca, Brazil would be the first and real test for them. They grow in confidence trashing weak teams, and when they face Brazil(without Kaká, Ronaldinho), couldn´t see the face of the ball. Messi did one great play at the beginning of the game and disappear, Riquelme also, and Tevez was neutralized by Alex and Juan.
We played at the counter at that day, but in contrary of Chelsea, our midfield didn´t underachieve. We put a emphatic 3x0 on them, and it could have been more. And what happened after the game?? Argentine media, fans and players(like the Barca ones) were in the media putting the blame on the referee, the stile of Brazil and in the way "we played the Anti-Football". Man, we trashed them 3x0!!!
To play in the counter is part of football, and imo Barca players need to shut up and go to Stanford Bridge and show that they are the best also against strong teams(with a real defense)...and they better hope the referee next weak it is not of today´s game between M. United and Arsenal. Now, that was a great job by a referee...
The first guy in a while to not believe in Cristiano Ronaldo dives...
Christian
29-04-2009, 19:50
To play in the counter is part of football, and imo Barca players need to shut up and go to Stanford Bridge and show that they are the best also against strong teams(with a real defense)...and they better hope the referee next weak it is not of today´s game between M. United and Arsenal. Now, that was a great job by a referee...
The first guy in a while to not believe in Cristiano Ronaldo dives...
Yep you're right, that's the only thing to do for them now, and I hope they're gonna give Chelsea a big spanking.
The referee between Man Utd and Arsenal was the same that Chelsea tried to influence, Claus Bo Larsen, funny nothing was said about that in the English media though... But I agree that he was great in the game.
Brasileiro
30-04-2009, 07:56
Yep you're right, that's the only thing to do for them now, and I hope they're gonna give Chelsea a big spanking.
The referee between Man Utd and Arsenal was the same that Chelsea tried to influence, Claus Bo Larsen, funny nothing was said about that in the English media though... But I agree that he was great in the game.
It was the same?? Wow...
I really want to know who was that guy...one of the best referee performances that I saw in a long time. Thanks for the tip...
Gule-Pirlo
30-04-2009, 15:29
Arsenal is going to win CL!!
**** Man Utd!!!!!!!!
After 11 minutes in the second leg of the Arsenal-MU semi-final, we already know that MU will qualify ...
stupid game....poor little gibbs.....stupid almunia
Sigh that's the Champions League for you...you need a little luck to go your way if you want to make it all the way to the trophy. A lucky slip from Gibbs...and some atrocious goalkeeping (the freekick was good but certainly saveable) and Man-U are in the final. I hope Barca meet them there, I don't want a repeat of last year's final.
The match of yesterday and the results of Arsenal in the last few years just shows that Wenger's youth politics doesn't work.
Like someone said on a French blog linked to Eurosport.fr, Arsenal is a potential WC team each year, there are a lot of promises each season, big hopes for the following one, but this statement is available each season, they never do the jump to this WC team.
And like Evra said in an interview: it was like if yesterday, we saw 11 men against 11 boys.
Also, Wenger is not a good tactician.
Just a thought after recalling some discussions here (people wanting Wenger and/or wanting us to buy the same kind of players than them).
Sigh that's the Champions League for you...you need a little luck to go your way if you want to make it all the way to the trophy. A lucky slip from Gibbs...and some atrocious goalkeeping (the freekick was good but certainly saveable) and Man-U are in the final. I hope Barca meet them there, I don't want a repeat of last year's final.
Agree.
I want Barca to win it this year.
But, it's not going to happen, Chelsea is going to win tonight. They can't stop Drogba. Not without Puyol and Marquez. Caceres and Pique? No way.
Hope I'm wrong.:u56:
Christian
06-05-2009, 08:51
Agree.
I want Barca to win it this year.
But, it's not going to happen, Chelsea is going to win tonight. They can't stop Drogba. Not without Puyol and Marquez. Caceres and Pique? No way.
Hope I'm wrong.:u56:
Pique has turned into a quality defender. He is now actually Spain's nr.1 defender, as a matter of fact. Caceras though.... he's a disaster.
And I agree with you Geotav, Wenger isn't a good tactician, I would have Carlo over him any day, even if it does mean putting up a bit to much with Seedorf :S
The match of yesterday and the results of Arsenal in the last few years just shows that Wenger's youth politics doesn't work.
Like someone said on a French blog linked to Eurosport.fr, Arsenal is a potential WC team each year, there are a lot of promises each season, big hopes for the following one, but this statement is available each season, they never do the jump to this WC team.
And like Evra said in an interview: it was like if yesterday, we saw 11 men against 11 boys.
Also, Wenger is not a good tactician.
Just a thought after recalling some discussions here (people wanting Wenger and/or wanting us to buy the same kind of players than them).
Some point I agree on but the truth is the whole team has gone backwards since moving to the Emirates stadium, moving to such a big stadium has hit the club hard and its meant that there is hardly any money available to buy established players. Arsenal were struggling to make the top 4 spot so they had to invest in Arshavin who IMO has turned many heads so imagine if they had the money to invest in other quality players.
I think scraping 4th is enough for Arsenal until 7 years from now when the debt is paid off and they can invest heavily into the team, but as Wenger said Arsenal are a selling club and every summer they must sell players.
I agree to some extent that Wenger is not on the same level as SAF, Jose, Carlo, Rafa tactically, but at the same time when was the last time an italian team knocked Arsenal out of the CL? I remember his team knocking the top 4 teams in Italy over the last 4/5 years, also on top of that he took a team to be unbeaten a whole season which sounds easy but is very difficult.
Arsenal do not have the spending power of United, Chelsea and Liverpool and the table shows that.
I think there might be a mass exodus in the Summer though so it should be interesting. I would have preferred them to win the CL but heres me hoping Barca win tonight so we wont have to go through what we did last season where the final was a joke.
Chelsea 1-0 Barça after 9 minutes ... I hope not to see the same scenario than yesterday !! :str:
Great goal by essien...real wonder goal...but they will have to score more because barca looks angry now and will probably score at least 1 goal tonight
Great goal by essien...real wonder goal...but they will have to score more because barca looks angry now and will probably score at least 1 goal tonight
Unfortunately, it looks more like a 2-0 for Chelsea in the next minutes than a goal from Barcelona ... :(
Where is barca?!?!?
Where are the ref's glasses????
2 clear penalties for chelsea in just 3 mins
What a goal from Essein!! It's a shame he isn't as stylish a name as Zidane or Ronaldo because that goal was every bit as good as Zizou's goal off against Bayer Leverkusen. Maybe even better. Barcelona are knocking on the door but are just missing the last pass. Exciting match because one goal from Barca and the tie would change completely.
What a goal from Essein!! It's a shame he isn't as stylish a name as Zidane or Ronaldo because that goal was every bit as good as Zizou's goal off against Bayer Leverkusen. Maybe even better. Barcelona are knocking on the door but are just missing the last pass. Exciting match because one goal from Barca and the tie would change completely.
Exciting regarding the suspens, but not very good match honestly in terms of pleasure to watch ... Barcelona didn't have one single chance to score, they are slow in midfield (because of their weird replacements and because of Chelsea midfielders), ...
See what I mean, to make it in the CL you need some luck and Barca had a lot of it tonight. Dunno if it was a deserved victory but I prefer a Barca - ManU final anyday over a repeat of last year.
Last 7 minutes that were very exciting ...
Only one good shot by Barcelona, and it's a goal.
In the first leg, the referee made mistakes in favour of Chelsea, this time it was more than clearly in favour of Barcelona (despite the red card) ...
Barcelona can be happy, anyway, Messi, Eto'o, Keita, Alves and Abidal were just horrible to watch. I'd even give a special mention to Alves, how can the best RB in the world play like that ? No good cross, bad at defending, everything he did was bad ...
Christian
06-05-2009, 15:43
BARCA!!! Good to see Chelsea out, at times I thought I was watching Inter play...
See what I mean, to make it in the CL you need some luck and Barca had a lot of it tonight. Dunno if it was a deserved victory but I prefer a Barca - ManU final anyday over a repeat of last year.
Yep, undeserved win but a better final ... even if MU will be the ultra favourite for this final (actually, even with Chelsea, MU would have been favourite). Why ?
Abidal and Alves suspended, Marquez injured, who will play ? Puyol-Pique, but then ? Caceres on the left ? Who on the right ? Sylvinho ?
Xavi, Eto'o, Messi and Alves don't even deserve a 3 in match ratings, very poor, lucky to win.
Christian
06-05-2009, 15:50
I don't see them fielding Caceras, he's a liability... Normally they'd probably put Puyol as a LB, since he's very versitile, but with the lack of CB's it's hard to say.
Daniel Alves is usually one of my favorite Barcelona players, but he had two really bad games against Chelsea. He's normally the reason why Messi is so great, because they form such a good duo, but against Chelsea he never really got going.
I don't know if the win was undeserved, seen over two games at least. Barcelona got some decisions their way, but you can't ignore the red card, which was a blatent dive. And the amount of penalty appeals in the first leg for Barcelona. Drogba is a good striker, but when his finishing is as bad as it was in these two games, then they only have themselves to blame.
Anyways, I hope to see a better Barcelona against Manchester United. They might've beat Real Madrid 6-2, but honostly, they looked alot better earlier this season, it was just Real Madrid being terrible really.
Xavi!!??! Xavi was excellent to me IMO Messi wasn't bad either he was helping the playmaking and provided the final assist. Alves however deserves a -10 for this performance. Worst crossing I've seen from a RB since Oddo. Whenever the ball got to him he put it in the stands.
Xavi, Eto'o, Messi and Alves don't even deserve a 3 in match ratings, very poor, lucky to win.
If we mix our lists, that gives a poor game by Eto'o, Messi, Alves, Keita, Xavi and Abidal, which is a lot for a team going to the final !!
Anyway, if Barcelona didn't qualify, that would have cancelled all the chances of Messi to win the next Ballon d'Or ... and that would have probably allow C.Ronaldo to keep it.
I hope they will enjoy their battle to win this Ballon d'Or because in 2010, none of them will be able to win this title as their national team won't win the World Cup ... :D
Unbelievable!!!! I was getting ready to cry myself to sleep over another United-Chelsea final...and then Barca scored! Deservedly? Based on this game absolutely not, and I've just felt something I thought I couldn't feel: Sympathy for Chelsea - although Drogba's and Ballack's reactions after the game quickly removed that sympathy. Turns out Chelsea are no better losers than Barca.
I much prefer Barca in the final too, but when Valdes is the best player (who else was good?) he made a couple of important if not very difficult saves then I don't think it was deserved.
What?!?!?!?
This is a sad day for football! I was pro Barca before the game, but Chelsea deserved to go to the final. 3 clear penalties for Chelsea, total domination during the entire game and that thief robbed them of their victory.
Barca was sooo slow and impotent, Guardiola did a terrible job tonight; kept Gasquets (sp?) until 85', forced Messi in the middle where he was surrounded by defenders and gave Alves left wing for his useless crosses. The guy was worst than Oddo and Favalli combined tonight.
Hiddink beat Barca tonight, but the ref decided otherwise. His players were so dominant physically, especially Ballack, Lampard and Essien ran like crazy tonight.
Did anybody hear what was Drogba screaming into the camera in the end???
Christian
06-05-2009, 15:54
Valdes was the best? His saves were trivial, Chelsea just have terrible finishers (except Essien ofcourse :D, pls come to Milan).
Disagree that Xavi was any good at all, and I say Valdes because he at least did something, Barca had what one shot on goal? with a team comprising of Alves, Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Eto'o, Keita, etc.
Christian
06-05-2009, 16:03
Chelsea were just as impotent, at least prior to the unjust red card for Abidal. Ofcourse they're gonna get chances when Barcelona are playing with 3 defenders, one of them being Daniel Alves, and the last one being Yaya Toure who's a DM, it's their own fault they can't score a goal against that defence.
Chelsea should've had 2 penalties, but both off them came after the red card (which was a dive), question is would've had that many chances with a back four for Barce??? Which if's though are pointless.
When Drogba and the rest of the bunch dive time after time after time after time, then there's only one word for what happened, and that's Karma!
Chelsea were just as impotent, at least prior to the unjust red card for Abidal. Ofcourse they're gonna get chances when Barcelona are playing with 3 defenders, one of them being Daniel Alves, and the last one being Yaya Toure who's a DM, it's their own fault they can't score a goal against that defence.
Chelsea should've had 2 penalties, but both off them came after the red card (which was a dive), question is would've had that many chances with a back four for Barce??? Which if's though are pointless.
When Drogba and the rest of the bunch dive time after time after time after time, then there's only one word for what happened, and that's Karma!
I didn't understand why Hiddink replaced him ... his tactics were brilliant to beat Barcelona, but he made a mistake there.
That wasn't diving. watch the replays. Maluda in the first half was inside the box, Pique played with his arm(clear as day), 1 tackle on drogba, 1 tackle on Anelka.
I do agree that the RC wasn't a foul, but sure looked like it at first.
^^ Drogba was limping...or faking one of the two. So Hiddink figured he might as well rest Drogba while solidifying the defense.
Good for football that Barca went through but c'mon lets be real - they're in for a real shafting.
Will be a stroll in the park for United.
Goal.com gives the following ratings:
Essien - 6
Alves - 6.5
Did they really watch the game ??
Ballack should stop football, since he is a Chelsea player (because he seemed more respectful in Bayern), he's just a boring guy contesting all the referee decisions, and he seems more and more aggressive. From a star player, he transformed himself into a Van Bommel kind of player ...
LOL what a game!
A clear game to see how unexperienced Guardiola is. Two games in a row and Chelsea outplayed them in London despite they had more ball possesion since they didn't have clear chance (shot on goal) except the last one Iniesta got. Chelsea deserved to go to Final but they lacked of concentration made them suffer at the end of the game (of course the bad decisions by the referee and the wate of the chances they got played important role too).
Before the game I didn't want MU win the final but looking at how bad Guardiola tactic against Chelsea, I suddenly don't want Barca win the CL, better MU. :)
he's just a boring guy contesting all the referee decisions, and he seems more and more aggressive. From a star player, he transformed himself into a Van Bommel kind of player ...
Eh, only from the last scene when he protested the referee? Or is it only because of your hate to Ballack?
Eh, only from the last scene when he protested the referee? Or is it only because of your hate to Ballack?
No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.
If I'm not wrong, both Ballack and Juninho were fair players some years ago ... they were both very influential in the game of their respective teams ... look at them nowadays ...
No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.
If I'm not wrong, both Ballack and Juninho were fair players some years ago ... they were both very influential in the game of their respective teams ... look at them nowadays ...
Aha, I get it now. I thought it's only because of the last accident when he protested the referee.
The protest looks terrible but it's pretty funny to watch how he could do such a protest with a legal action (only shouting/verbal protest to the referee). It seemed that he wanted to punch the referee. :D
Mordicai
06-05-2009, 17:36
No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.
If I'm not wrong, both Ballack and Juninho were fair players some years ago ... they were both very influential in the game of their respective teams ... look at them nowadays ...
Nah i think Ballack has always been the cunning type of player.
Drogba went nuts after the game though,i think he's going to be handed a ban for trying to assault the ref and yelling obscenities into a live tv camera.
While very poor it wasn't THAT one sided refereeing, it might look it because possession was often Barca's and Chelsea's runs toward Barca's goal were more one on one or counterattacking style that can often be almost a last man type of foul.
Brasileiro
06-05-2009, 18:12
Goal.com gives the following ratings:
Essien - 6
Alves - 6.5
Did they really watch the game ??
Ballack should stop football, since he is a Chelsea player (because he seemed more respectful in Bayern), he's just a boring guy contesting all the referee decisions, and he seems more and more aggressive. From a star player, he transformed himself into a Van Bommel kind of player ...
Goal.com ratings are so biased(and mostly wrong): That was the worse Alves performance that I remember...deserved a 4-
Brasileiro
06-05-2009, 18:20
Also, as I said many times...Messi has still much to prove. Every time he faze a real defense, the little boy disappear.
Don´t get me wrong, the guy is a top-3 right now, but he needs to show that in real games to be labeled as "The Messias" as Braça fans like to say...
Also, as I said many times...Messi has still much to prove. Every time he faze a real defense, the little boy disappear.
Don´t get me wrong, the guy is a top-3 right now, but he needs to show that in real games to be labeled as "The Messias" as Braça fans like to say...
I agree Messi still has alot to prove, and as he's still young he has plenty of time and room for improvement. But I wouldn't say he dissapears - in these two Chelsea games he was very underwhelming (despite this he got an assist yesterday :zany:), but a year ago against Man Utd he was, despite not scoring, the best player over 180 minutes, and the biggest threat in both games.
And still, who can lay a better claim to being the best player in the world? Ronaldo? Iniesta? Gerrard? Ribery? Ibra? Kaká? Giggs?!? No doubt in my mind Messi is the best.
A healthy Kaka is better than any other player, IMHO. CR7 has good and extremely hard working players with pace surrounding him. Somewhat similar story with Messi and the only big team he has constantly given good performances against is Real Madrid which is a joke in recent times. Again, Messi is only 21 and has only 37 games in CL (and 18 goals, of course). I remember CR7 having only 1 or 2 goals in his first 40 (or 30) something CL games. Look at Kaka and the players he is surrounded with. I think we are not a WC team without Kaka (Not considering Pato). Kaka gives WC performances with Brazil almost every time.
Kaka > Messi > CR7.
PS: I am still not convinced that CR7 is a superstar. I could be ridiculously wrong though. I might change my opinion if he manages to lead his NT to WC2010.
Messi is the most overrated player ever.
@ Ceceves
How can Messi be the best player of the last year's tie with MU when they lost?? The best player in the world isn't the one with most goals and assists, it's the player who had been most influential and lead his team to trophies...
Remember kaka? When he was the best in the world, he wasn't it because he scored most goals, or played most entertaining football. He was the best because he simply was the best when his team needed him...those ties against MU and the final, that kind of stuff makes you player of the year.
As much as I hate CR7, I must admit he's the best in the world right now. A few seasons ago, Ronaldo was a big game flopper, but now he scores important goals and is a leader of his team. Messi on the other hand didn't do anything against Chelsea, if he's the best in the world he should have done something when Barca needed him...
He's a great player and still has lots of time to do great stuff but right now CR is the best out there.
Back to back wins in CL and EPL will confirm this in a few weeks.
So, hypothetically, if a player has 49 fantastic games in a season, and then fails in the CL final, he can't be the best in the world?
It amazes me how people confuse individual quality with collective quality. Trophies are the hallmark of a great team, they don't necessarily say anything about the quality of a single player.
If you want to find out what is the best team in the world, look at their trophy cabinet. If you want to find out who is the best player in the world it's more complicated. You have to consider every single game they've played.
How was Messi the best player in the semis last year? He was the most threatening player on the pitch (Uniteds goal came out of nothing like Chelsea's last night). Also he had a perfectly good penalty call turned down by the ref, that, if converted, would have send Barca to the final.
I think, the performance of a team and a player can't be separated. If a player managed to perform so well in 90 percent of his team's games but failed to bring/help his team to win the Champions League, a competition for ALL best clubs in Europe, he can't be choosed to be the wolrd best player in my opinion. How great his performances in domestic league but failing to help the team to win the most prestigious competition in the World (beside World Cup) is a huge disadvantage (mistake) for him to be choosed as the world best player.
So, in my opinion, a best player is not only best for himself or best for his club but also best for the world (best for the best competition in the world which is Champions League or World Cup). Even still to add that the player must/should bring his club to win the Intercontinental Cup/World Club Cup as 'the last requirement'.
But again the standards are not very clear as they are only a matter of opinion from the national team coaches (coaches' votes)
Well of course there is a connection between the performance of a player and the performance of his team. If a player does well, often his team will, too - that's obvious. But I just think it's utterly unfair and illogical to say that if a player doesn't win a team award (CL, WC etc.) he can't win the the ballon d'or.
So, hypothetically, if a player has 49 fantastic games in a season, and then fails in the CL final, he can't be the best in the world?
Of course he can.
BUT if there is a player who also had a great season(great 49 games as you say) and then kicked his a$$ in the final(most important game) while he was mentally absent from it...
All roads lead to Rome. The winner of that final will probably take it this year as there are no NT tournaments.
Maltese Charlie
07-05-2009, 12:20
What do you think about this?
I think Mr Rinaldi is quite right.
(channel 4)
Blog: Remembering Korea
Chelsea boss Guus Hiddink said last night’s referee was the worst he’d ever seen. But, asks Giancarlo Rinaldi, what about Byron Moreno?
The summer of 2002 is one I don't recall with any pleasure. I had to get time off work to get out of the office to watch the Azzurri clash with South Korea in the World Cup. I remember wishing I hadn't bothered.
And yet all the memories have come flooding back to me following Chelsea's elimination from the Champions League. The same finger-pointing at the referee, the same conspiracy theories, the same bitter recriminations. Except it has all been turned upside down.
Let us recall what Italy fans were told after they lost out in the Far East. "Get over it," was the main message. "You didn't take your chances - so don't blame the referee. You are just making excuses."
Well, Blues of Stamford Bridge, how about taking that advice?
How many times have I seen an Italian team which based its game on stout defence and great organisation go out to a late goal? We are usually told it serves us right. So why does the same not hold true for an English club side?
The conspiracy theory about UEFA not wanting an all-English Final is laughable. Magnificent as the match referee was, how could he have foreseen Iniesta's late, late thunderbolt? Without that, remember, Chelsea were heading to Rome. And how does the ludicrous red card for a Barca player fit into the theory anyway?
Of course, those of us long enough in the tooth to remember South Korea will recall who was sitting on the opposition bench that day. Yes, it was Mr Hiddink. So when he says the referee on Wednesday night was the worst he has ever seen it is hard not to think he might have a slightly selective memory.
Byron Moreno was streets ahead of Tommy Ovrebo in the controversial decision department. He managed to send a man off when he should have got a penalty. Now imagine if that had happened to Didier Drogba...
Messi is the most overrated player ever.
Messi is only overrated depending on how you rate him. The majority of people simply rate him in the top 3 players in the world, if not number 1. Don't listen to the select few who think he can be compared to Maradona, it isn't the majority. In comparison with the players of today he's easily in the top 3 and 2 quiet games against Chelsea won't change that. He's been performing all season long.
Regarding the WPOY/Ballon D'or I think it's important for a player to be performing well consistently over the majority of the season, both in Europe and in their domestic league. However, these awards are (sadly) almost solely based on whoever does best in the biggest competition of the year (CL or Euros or World Cup).
Ok.. im so tired of these "Who is better, Messir or Cr7?" crap... lets just put the facts out and decide. ( Taken from ESPN Soccernet.Com )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lionel Messi ( Current Season / Best Season )
Spanish Primera Liga 30 Games(26+4) 23 Goals 11 Assists
Champions League 11 Games(9+2) 8 Goals 5 Assists
Copa Del'Rey 7 Games(4+3) 5 Goals 0 Assists
Cristiano Ronaldo ( 2007/2008 Season / Best Season )
Total Games Played : 49 ( 46+3 )
Total Goals Scored : 42
Total Assists : 8
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They played almost the same amount of games ( messi will play more obviously by the end of the season )
Messi scored 6 goals Less so far
Has assisted TWICE more than CR7 ( Messi 16--Cr7 with 8 )
Discuss
Pretty same to me from the stats; both are imrpessive; I'm sure there are strengths that one have and the other don't, and that will only matter in different teams.
Christian
07-05-2009, 17:33
We all know Kaka is better than both ;)
Ronaldinho is the most talented though... If he just had the same work rate and proffesionel approach as Cristiano Ronaldo, then he could have been the best ever.
I typed Chelsea into my sat nav and it said two minutes from Rome.
I think Ronaldo Luis Nazario Da lima is the best ever watched. his moves look so easy....Even today's trio look clumsy compared to him in his best days...
If he was healthy he would have done even greater things. Today he's again scoring, amazing.
I think Ronaldo Luis Nazario Da lima is the best ever watched. his moves look so easy....Even today's trio look clumsy compared to him in his best days...
If he was healthy he would have done even greater things. Today he's again scoring, amazing.
I second that - the real Ronaldo is the only player I've ever really worshipped. Honestly if he came back I wouldn't complain...even though it would be a major risk.
Ronaldinho is the most talented though... If he just had the same work rate and proffesionel approach as Cristiano Ronaldo, then he could have been the best ever.
Remember that Ronnie had 3 great seasons and then started to piss his talent away...just like Adriano...There's still time for CR to do the same.
Brasileiro
08-05-2009, 16:31
I agree Messi still has alot to prove, and as he's still young he has plenty of time and room for improvement. But I wouldn't say he dissapears - in these two Chelsea games he was very underwhelming (despite this he got an assist yesterday :zany:), but a year ago against Man Utd he was, despite not scoring, the best player over 180 minutes, and the biggest threat in both games.
And still, who can lay a better claim to being the best player in the world? Ronaldo? Iniesta? Gerrard? Ribery? Ibra? Kaká? Giggs?!? No doubt in my mind Messi is the best.
I got your point, Ceceves...and also agree he has plenty of time(room I have my doubts) to improve. But I don´t agree he was that good against M. United last year. He had 2 or 3 great plays against MU in Old Trafford when his team really needs him...it is still too little for top-3 in the world, but at the same time, normal for a young player.
Remember what Ronaldinho(the old one) Gaucho did against us when we faced them?? And it was against Maldini, Nesta and with Gattuso snarling on his neck. Now, that was a performance of the best of the world. Also, kaká´s performances in the year he won the trophy and we the champions were amazing...
Thats my point...they can have a day off, but they need to perform against the best competition to earn that prize...also, to talk about the assist against Chelsea is trying to much:tong: It count as a assist, but it wasn´t a through ball or a great pass...that goal was pure Iniesta magic.
Look, no one can honestly to say that have played better than Messi the entire year. Said that guys like Iniesta, Xavi, Gerard had performed at the same level, with different type of game(Messi is more appealing), and needed to be there imo.
But what count(unfairly) is the last performance, and thats why Cristiano is in the hunt...Imo, last year he deserved the golden ball(and like Messi this year, with averages performances against the big ones), but this year not.
It´s not fair, but if Manchester win, and he perform(or not), it will be him one more time...
Remember what Ronaldinho(the old one) Gaucho did against us when we faced them?? And it was against Maldini, Nesta and with Gattuso snarling on his neck. Now, that was a performance of the best of the world. Also, kaká´s performances in the year he won the trophy and we the champions were amazing...
Yeah great move, also the move against Chelsea. Was that the same year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijR1WX2bLIo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1SXYlnU34
Great stuff, pure WC
I got your point, Ceceves...and also agree he has plenty of time(room I have my doubts) to improve. But I don´t agree he was that good against M. United last year. He had 2 or 3 great plays against MU in Old Trafford when his team really needs him...it is still too little for top-3 in the world, but at the same time, normal for a young player.
Remember what Ronaldinho(the old one) Gaucho did against us when we faced them?? And it was against Maldini, Nesta and with Gattuso snarling on his neck. Now, that was a performance of the best of the world. Also, kaká´s performances in the year he won the trophy and we the champions were amazing...
Thats my point...they can have a day off, but they need to perform against the best competition to earn that prize...also, to talk about the assist against Chelsea is trying to much:tong: It count as a assist, but it wasn´t a through ball or a great pass...that goal was pure Iniesta magic.
Look, no one can honestly to say that have played better than Messi the entire year. Said that guys like Iniesta, Xavi, Gerard had performed at the same level, with different type of game(Messi is more appealing), and needed to be there imo.
But what count(unfairly) is the last performance, and thats why Cristiano is in the hunt...Imo, last year he deserved the golden ball(and like Messi this year, with averages performances against the big ones), but this year not.
It´s not fair, but if Manchester win, and he perform(or not), it will be him one more time...
I said Messi was the best player in the semis against United, but I didn't say he was THAT good. Nobody in either team played fantastic football because United did what Chelsea has done: destroyed the game (call it catenaccio, anti-fútbol or whatever). Messi was the best of a not-so-great bunch - and miles better than Cristiano.
I do remember vividly what Ronaldinho did in the semis two years before - pure magic. And no, Messi hasn't reached that level yet, almost no players have/will. And I Agree Messi hasn't emulated Kaká's amazing CL form of 2007 - again most players haven't, even some who have won the ballon d'or.
But I just can't accept that a great performance in a final counts for more than ten great performances in normal games.
EDIT: Just a thought - how would Kaká (just an example) have done if he was subjected to the sort of treatment that Messi was against Chelsea (and United last year)? In the semis against us two years ago United actually tried to play football, thus leaving more space for Milan than Barca had.
Brasileiro
08-05-2009, 18:12
I said Messi was the best player in the semis against United, but I didn't say he was THAT good. Nobody in either team played fantastic football because United did what Chelsea has done: destroyed the game (call it catenaccio, anti-fútbol or whatever). Messi was the best of a not-so-great bunch - and miles better than Cristiano.
I do remember vividly what Ronaldinho did in the semis two years before - pure magic. And no, Messi hasn't reached that level yet, almost no players have/will. And I Agree Messi hasn't emulated Kaká's amazing CL form of 2007.
But I just can't accept that a great performance in a final counts for more than ten great performances in normal games.
EDIT: Just a thought - how would Kaká (just an example) have done if he was subjected to the sort of treatment that Messi was against Chelsea (and United last year)? In the semis against us two years ago United actually tried to play football, thus leaving more space for Milan than Barca had.
...and thats is why I said it is unfair. But it is the way that these people that give these prizes judge. As I said, no one had a better season than Messi(maybe Iniesta), but if Cristiano to shine in the final, theres a good chance of he win(unfairly) the Golden Ball.
Regarding your thought: Tell me more about "sort of treatment"(I´m afraid to be wrong about your thought)...as besides the first game(a real catenaccio), Chelsea did nothing special scheme to stop Messi. They were tough but loyal, and they also did not foul a lot. Messi just couldn´t find the space he get in Spain and become frustrated.
Look...for me, until now, Messi deserve to be the front runner for the Golden Ball winner. But I just can´t put him as clear cut like Ronaldo, Zidane, Kaká and Ronaldinho were in the past...
Christian
08-05-2009, 19:15
...and thats is why I said it is unfair. But it is the way that these people that give these prizes judge. As I said, no one had a better season than Messi(maybe Iniesta), but if Cristiano to shine in the final, theres a good chance of he win(unfairly) the Golden Ball.
Regarding your thought: Tell me more about "sort of treatment"(I´m afraid to be wrong about your thought)...as besides the first game(a real catenaccio), Chelsea did nothing special scheme to stop Messi. They were tough but loyal, and they also did not foul a lot. Messi just couldn´t find the space he get in Spain and become frustrated.
Look...for me, until now, Messi deserve to be the front runner for the Golden Ball winner. But I just can´t put him as clear cut like Ronaldo, Zidane, Kaká and Ronaldinho were in the past...
I think Messi has the same case for the golden ball, that Ronaldo had almost a year ago. He has already scored 35 goals + assists this year, which is pretty much the case that was made for Cristiano Ronaldo last year. Cristiano Ronaldo didn't create the game for Manchester United against the big teams last season. Messi was great against Lyon, Bayern Munich, but when the team really needed him, against Chelsea, he didn't pull out anything really extraordinary.
That's why I'll rate Kaka, Ronaldinho and Zidane beyond both of those (until now, because both are young). Kaka pulled the team up, just like Zidane, and i have never seen a player as good with the ball as Ronaldinho in his day, which ultimatly pulled Barcelona up. It's just not the same as Messi playing in a team(that has matured since Ronaldinho) that now, if you'd name the five best players in the world, three off them would probably be from Barcelona. Cristiano Ronaldo, who let's face it, has a better approach to the game than Messi or Ronaldinho (since he plays in England), but isn't as talented as Kaka, Ronaldinho, Messi or even Pato.
EDIT: Just a thought - how would Kaká (just an example) have done if he was subjected to the sort of treatment that Messi was against Chelsea (and United last year)? In the semis against us two years ago United actually tried to play football, thus leaving more space for Milan than Barca had.
But the difference between Kaka' and Messi is big: the way they play, but even another bigger difference, the team !!
Barcelona and Milan, when they are in form (especially this semi-final in San Siro ... probably one of the best all-time performances), play beautiful football but in such a different way.
I think we have a more various kind of play because we have very different players on the pitch - we can do long balls, short and fast passing, we are able to slow down the rythm, and we can also "let the ball to our opponent" and organize to block them and counter-attacking.
Barcelona is more a team that will try to play fast football with short passes (a lot of short passes), but their kind of play isn't very various. It's why, I think, they struggle so much against strong teams that play a good old Catenaccio. And Messi seems not to be able to make the difference in this case (I even rate higher Iniesta sometimes, he is more and more spectacular but he is more than all efficient and a kind of leader for the team, which isn't and won't be Messi).
About us, thanks to the variation in the way we play (of course, when we're in form), even if the team in front of us plays a kind of Catenaccio, that can't work, because we will try different ways to manage to score, and Kaka', as he is more powerful than Messi, will manage to play and probably create some space for himself (or his partners).
Brasileiro
08-05-2009, 22:47
I think Messi has the same case for the golden ball, that Ronaldo had almost a year ago. He has already scored 35 goals + assists this year, which is pretty much the case that was made for Cristiano Ronaldo last year. Cristiano Ronaldo didn't create the game for Manchester United against the big teams last season. Messi was great against Lyon, Bayern Munich, but when the team really needed him, against Chelsea, he didn't pull out anything really extraordinary.
That's why I'll rate Kaka, Ronaldinho and Zidane beyond both of those (until now, because both are young). Kaka pulled the team up, just like Zidane, and i have never seen a player as good with the ball as Ronaldinho in his day, which ultimatly pulled Barcelona up. It's just not the same as Messi playing in a team(that has matured since Ronaldinho) that now, if you'd name the five best players in the world, three off them would probably be from Barcelona. Cristiano Ronaldo, who let's face it, has a better approach to the game than Messi or Ronaldinho (since he plays in England), but isn't as talented as Kaka, Ronaldinho, Messi or even Pato.
Just to be more clear, I wasn´t talking about Cristiano Ronaldo when I put the name with Zidane, kaka and Ronaldinho as clear cuts. I was talking about Ronaldo(the Brazilian) :)
Cristiano Ronaldo last year also disappeared against the big teams. Sure he score in the final, but his game was very average. The problem was that last season no one could really compete with his titles and stats.
As I said, no one had a better year than Messi, but we can agree that like last year, the winner of the Golden Ball will not be in the same level of Zidane, Kaká, Ronaldinho or Ronaldo(R9) season in the past...
That's a very nice analysis GeoTav.
@ Brasileiro - I was talking (in my "thought") about the catenaccio-approach Chelsea (and to a lesser degree United) used against Barca and particularly Messi. He constantly had 3 or 4 players no him every time he had the ball anywhere near Chelsea's area. It was more severe in the 1st leg where Chelsea only tried to destroy Barca's play, but even in the 2nd leg Messi had something resembling a triple man-marking. And I just wondered how, for example, Kaká would have coped with that.
@ Geotav - I agree with those differences between Milan and Barca, and that Barca are pretty much a one-trick pony (in the best sense of the word, might I add), and Messi is too. But I do think we have struggled too when playing against very negative teams, teams of lesser stature (both physically and quality-wise) than Chelsea. I am talking about Serie A teams who "park the bus".
@ Christian - How does Cristiano have a "better approach" than Messi and Ronaldinho? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just not sure exactly what you mean.
@ Brasileiro - I was talking (in my "thought") about the catenaccio-approach Chelsea (and to a lesser degree United) used against Barca and particularly Messi. He constantly had 3 or 4 players no him every time he had the ball anywhere near Chelsea's area. It was more severe in the 1st leg where Chelsea only tried to destroy Barca's play, but even in the 2nd leg Messi had something resembling a triple man-marking. And I just wondered how, for example, Kaká would have coped with that.
@ Geotav - I agree with those differences between Milan and Barca, and that Barca are pretty much a one-trick pony (in the best sense of the word, might I add), and Messi is too. But I do think we have struggled too when playing against very negative teams, teams of lesser stature (both physically and quality-wise) than Chelsea. I am talking about Serie A teams who "park the bus".
@ Christian - How does Cristiano have a "better approach" than Messi and Ronaldinho? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just not sure exactly what you mean.
Yes, but it is the CL topic :D and we all know that there is a Serie A Milan and a CL Milan ... (except last year)
Didn't you notice how we can play brilliant football in CL and struggle against the first opponent playing in counter-attack in Serie A ?
Yes, but it is the CL topic :D and we all know that there is a Serie A Milan and a CL Milan ... (except last year)
Didn't you notice how we can play brilliant football in CL and struggle against the first opponent playing in counter-attack in Serie A ?
Of course, you can't help but notice that :(. But I remember Kaká saying two years ago (when asked how come Milan ruled the CL but sucked in Serie A - it wasn't quite phrased like that!) that Milan struggled in the Serie A because most teams played with 10 men behind the ball, while in the CL the teams tried to attack, leaving more space for Milan.
Of course, you can't help but notice that :(. But I remember Kaká saying two years ago (when asked how come Milan ruled the CL but sucked in Serie A - it wasn't quite phrased like that!) that Milan struggled in the Serie A because most teams played with 10 men behind the ball, while in the CL the teams tried to attack, leaving more space for Milan.
Actually, the Chelsea-Barcelona game is a good example of the variation between our teams:
Chelsea played a kind of Catenaccio but they attacked anyway, at start it was just with Drogba (so it was of course hard for Barcelona to counter-attack as there were a 9-man-defence + the GK), and progressively, more players from Chelsea tried to attack, but Barcelona didn't manage to counter-attack quickly even there.
What would have happened with us ? We would have maybe struggle to counter-attack quickly, so we would have given the ball to Pirlo to allow him to launch a run by one of our fast players (Kaka', Pato nowadays) with long balls.
And it's what Kaka' says: when a team in CL plays a 10-man-defence, they end by trying to score with more players and open spaces because to qualify in CL, you need to score goals. In Serie A, when a team decides to play a 10-man-defence against us, they have no problem to do it for 90 minutes as a 0-0 is a good result against a team like Milan ...
What would have happened with us ? We would have maybe struggle to counter-attack quickly, so we would have given the ball to Pirlo to allow him to launch a run by one of our fast players (Kaka', Pato nowadays) with long balls.
In theory, if anyone could break such a defensive force it might be us - BUT I would like to see us actually do it next season if we face Chelsea or the like. Most likely though, Chelsea would take a different approach against us, as frankly they wouldn't be as afraid to leave space for us as they were against Barca.
Christian
09-05-2009, 13:26
@ Christian - How does Cristiano have a "better approach" than Messi and Ronaldinho? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just not sure exactly what you mean.
What i ment was his proffesionalism. I know he has gotten a bad rep, but I think that's more down to him being very unsympathetic, both with his comments after games, and his behavior on the field. Still he seems very disciplined when he's playing for Man Utd, he's not completly absent whenever his team doesn't have the ball, like Ronaldinho, and he's the first one to get in position when they get the ball, which is why he's so good at counter attacks, and probably also why he scores so many goals, because almost all Manchester Uniteds attacks are finished by him. I know alot of people would point out the Porto game where he lost the ball, but I don't think that's very typical of him. I do think he has a good work ethic, better than Messi, and obviously better than Ronaldinho. The other thing about him is that you don't hear about how he doesn't work in training etc. like you do with Ronaldinho, and that's why Ronaldinho in particular could learn something from him, because alot of players are very proffesional, but often 'superstars' become lazy.
As i said earlier, he's no where near as talented as Messi or Ronaldinho if you ask me. He doesn't posses the vision of Ronaldinho, or the dribbling ability of both of them. He isn't able to play as fast as neither either. He has a good shot though, but so does Pato, and I'm hoping he'll rock the Champions League next season!
I agree he works harder than Ronaldinho when his team isn't in possession, but truth be told the same goes for 99,9% of all professional football players! Since Ronaldinho left Barca (or since Guardiola arrived) every Barca player put alot of pressure on the opponent when the team don't have the ball, including Messi, so from what I've seen it's hard to say whether Ronaldo or Messi are more active to recover the ball, I'd say it's pretty even. What I do hold against Ronaldo is his tendency to get "nasty" when things aren't going his way, he tends to make dirty tackles and spend too much time complaining to the ref and shake his head in disbelief. Maybe it's because of his me-against-the-world attitude, but it's certainly not a good quality of his.
No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.
No, its just that Ballack is over shadowed by the Best, infect the Greatest pure midfielder of the modern era, Frank Lampard :star:
But having said that, I must say that Ballack is a beast playing for Germany and still is among the top 5 midfielders of the world :p286:
No, its just that Ballack is over shadowed by the Best, infect the Greatest pure midfielder of the modern era, Frank Lampard :star:
But having said that, I must say that Ballack is a beast playing for Germany and still is among the top 5 midfielders of the world :p286:
So, with the best midfielder in the world, and two of the best midfielders in the world (Ballack from your point of view + Essien from my point of view), this team can't win CL ?
Amazing ...
Lampard is a very good player, nothing more.
Ballack is a good player, overrated.
Christian
11-05-2009, 12:35
So, with the best midfielder in the world, and two of the best midfielders in the world (Ballack from your point of view + Essien from my point of view), this team can't win CL ?
Amazing ...
Lampard is a very good player, nothing more.
Ballack is a good player, overrated.
With the best midfield in the world they can't get a passing % over 60 and get more than 30% possession?? :skull:
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