Lecce - Milan

Originally Posted by alex22

I don't like Zlatanov, no kidding.

Oh Sasha already approaching 14 ... good to see that as it's still an improvement. Too bad you didn't join the forum couple of months ago ... you would have enjoyed chating with a member called Sash22. he was a nice fella and everyone liked him but unfortunately he got banned, don't know why though

Originally Posted by Kui

Listen... no I'm not having a swipe at you. From all the way back in January we had a shot at winning both of these and still the sentiment was "no... concede the scudetto" and go for the CL. We end up winning almost all games between that time and now with the exception of the draw vs Juve and the Lecce defeat. Juve has only earned 2 pts out of a possible 6pts and the Lecce result had people still beleived in the scudetto including Carlo himself with a win would have put us again in near grasp of catching them. Now we are behind them once again because all thought all was lost already. FURTHERMORE there is no gurantee this stupid loss to Lecce will insure that we will win versus Lyon on Tuesday. So shame on such people and shame on Carlo for thinking the same way as well. The difference is that those that went exactly for that same kind of mentality here are going to blame Carlo for thinking like.... THEM. Dont offer advice on something only to be pissed off at a result when the d@mn advice was from one's very own mouth is what I'm trying to make a point of. A lot of people have that defeciency of character here. I dont know if it is you who I'm talking about K77SH C. I hope not. But there is a mentality of fans in here that really is starting to irk me. I already know the reaction from them when what they said yesterday is going to be wrong tomorrow and they fail to realize that they made the suggestion. Catch my point???

To know you were disapointed in Carlo clears it up for me. In his defence though the players he emplyed should have been enough to get us the three points. You are absolutely right, losing to Lecce doesnt mean we will beat Lyon. Regardless, I just hope to see the best from Milan against Lyon so we can all agree on how good they played and how good Carlo's tactics were.

Originally Posted by K77SH C

To know you were disapointed in Carlo clears it up for me. In his defence though the players he emplyed should have been enough to get us the three points. You are absolutely right, losing to Lecce doesnt mean we will beat Lyon. Regardless, I just hope to see the best from Milan against Lyon so we can all agree on how good they played and how good Carlo's tactics were.

I hope to. It is against all conventional wisdom what some fans are advocating here... that is, give up the scudeto so that we can win the CL. Such sentiment has been humming through this forum since January. AT this time and juncture, it probably is the most pragmatic approach to take right now. Was is appropriate for that to be said in January??? I dont think it was appropriate to think this even prior to the Lecce game. Like I said... we wil rue such thoughts and sentiments. Why??? Conventional Wisdom... something I am trying to instill in many here at MilanMania. The wisest say that if you give up the love of one child so that you can be endeared by your other child, you will LOSE both of their love. Both will hold you in contempt. As such... we Milan fans lost faith, love and chance in winning Scudetto so that we can be endeared to the Champions League. Dont be surprised at all if we lose both of them.

Let us look at the damage done by such thoughts both from the fans and of the coaches/execs:
The Lecce game was crucial for Milan on two fronts because the variable was Juve. Juve has earned a mere 2 pts out of 6, a loss for us not seizing the oppurtunity to close the gap. Their draw became about from the fact that they are TWO goals down from Arsenal. They too believe in the CL and still think they can even win against Arsenal and the the CL title. With that in mind THEY were in a dilema not Milan. Our loss made them no longer worry about the Serie A title and that they can concentrate all their resources for survival in the CL. From this point on... they could draw or even lose a good sum of their Serie A matches and still not worry about us touching their boots and at the same time actually pull off a win against Arsenal. In my mind it is well within their ability to do so. It would not surprise me one iota if they JUVE go through come tomorrrow. And we let them no longer worry about Serie A... so guess what??? If they do go through tomorrow, they have a huge advantage over us in the CL and not a fvcking worry about lo Scudetto. That only improves their chance of winning both Serie A and CL in my opinion and again it wouldnt surprise me if they achieve this feat as well. Why do they have that better cahnce in my mind??? They still BELIEVE in the CL title chances and are not giving up on the CL in the same manner we gave up Serie A and we handed them the Scudetto platter on a silver platter.
Their was no reason for us to do Juve's move to concentrate on the CL and ignore the Scudetto because it was they who were dealing in difficulty. Now they dont need to worry about a damn thing! They're going to win something already arent they??? While they were under pressure in CL we lost that oppurtunity to put the pressure on them in Serie A. It wouldnt be foolish to put money on the result that Juve will have difficulty in the next Serie A venue because all of that energy was used to stay in CL. It was JUVE who had lost the momentum in both Serie A and CL and it was us who had all momentum in both Leagues until we gave up on Serie A against Lecce. So guess what??? We lost momentum as well and dont be surprised if Lyon gio through. In competition... the wise say you never fvck or do things to disrupt the teams momentum. Well we did just that and the lot of MilanMania fans agreed with it. Like I said... they'll crucify Carlo for thinking exactly like themselves. I'll crucify him for being as stupid as some MilanMania fans! Simple fact... Juve are in the drivers seat. They know what must be done come Tuesday/Wednesday and that is an advantage. And no friggin pressure from us on the domestic front. That is just stupid if anyone really doesnt get this point honestly.

"With Juve concentrated on the CL, FATE only had one a$$ to kick from behind. When WE followed suit and looked toward the CL, we gave FATE an extra a$$ to choose from and it kicked our a$$ not Juve's. When we turned around FATE then kicked us in the balls as well"

Here Endeth the Lesson! -Kui

I will limit my post to three points:

1) The game itself: I think that we should have won, even with our "B" team, but we made a mistake, and couldnt recover. Such is life, such is football...is the scudetto chase over? I dont think so, not while there is still a mathematical chance of us piping Juve at the finish line.

We really have no one to blame for this loss, I wouldnt blame Carlo, as I was happy that our key players got some extra rest. We dominated posession, and created more chances, but werent lucky...as Gila and Rui could have easily had a goal apiece. If blame must be aportioned, then blame Braida, for getting us a "B" team that couldnt even eke out a draw against relegation candidates.

Nuff said, we lost, it wasnt a terrible performance, and we fielded 7 non starters. Big deal. The scudetto was never, nor is it ever, our main objective (unless we finish outside the top 4 places in the table)...and so I beg to differ with Kui and others here who are disappointed in the team selected etc.

2. The UCL tie that we face tomorrow, is the single most important match of the season for Milan thus far, even the match vs Juve pales in comparison. Why? Because we always, always, strive for success in Europe as first priority..which is why we have more UCL trophies than all other teams in Italy combined.

Therefore, when I saw the 11 selected by Carlo, I wasnt surprised, and confess to being quite relieved. I much rather the UCL title to the scudetto. I would take that over the Italian title anyday. As long as we finish 2nd or 3rd, or can qualify via playoff via the 4th place finish...indeed, the most important thing for me about the Serie A table, is that we finish above Inter. That and qualification for the UCL.

3. What disgusts me completely, is how short (# of pages) the threads are when we win, and how long they are when we lose. Its as if we can only find things to moan and complain about, instead of hyping on the positive, and elaborating on how well we played. Post after post criticizing players, the coach, the owner..the color kit we wore, the fact that some players are rubbish, our transfer policy...whatever...

As always....FORZA MIIIIIIIIIIIIILAN! The ONE and ONLY team for me, win lose or draw...my team, coach, players, and president can always count on my support, be it after a loss, or when our beloved captain hoists a trophy over his head.

Originally Posted by Kui

This has got me disgusted in my fellow MilanMania fans. Many of you need to do a little soul and character searching because a good lot of you lack intelligence, faith, humility, and some mental stability in anything dealing with AC MILAN. This season I must say has been disappointing NOT in the performance of this team, but of the lack of class of some of its fans in MilanMania. Thus we dont deserve to win anything. FORZA MILAN!

Firstly, we do deserve to win something: The team has played some wonderful football this season, so, if we can be consistent, then we do deserve a trophy...and if you are going to allow the inane comments of a few to influence you to the point where you make a statement like that, then I worry for you my friend.

I beg to differ further from you here as well Kui...what you must understand, is the definition of fan.

In the event that you didnt know, fan, is short for fanatic..and any definition of fanatic can (and should) include such gems as:

Originally Posted by Kui

lack (ing)intelligence, faith, humility, and some mental stability

And to expand on those very same words:

Intelligence: How could anyone that is intelligent expect his team to win every game? Thats what we do as fans, believe it or not. That is why you are so upset, because you thought we should have won vs Lecce, and I agree that we should have, even with a "B" team, but its not probable for us to win all the time is it?

Faith: Moves mountains, but doesnt guarantee a victory in a football match, and having it (optimistic) or not (pragmatic, pessimist) is neither here nor there....but some of us have more than others...

Humility: WHAT? I am an arrogant AC Milan supporter, a fan(atic) of the best club in the Universe...why should I be humble?

Mental stability: We cant have any, we are fans....fanatics who will support our team win, lose or draw...going from the elation of a goal, to mind numbing depression when we concede one...impossible for us to be considered a fan, and to be mentally stable at the same time.

Now, let me hurriedly, (if belatedly) assure Kui that I am not trying to poke fun at him, his post, or any that agree with his train of thought. We are all entitled to our individual opinions, and this is the forum in which we share them. It is my opinion, and experience, that while we can all have the love of a team (Milan) in common, how we chose to display that love will be as different as two snowflakes, or two fingerprints.

My point in all of this is to say that we cannot expect fanatics to behave as normal people do. Therefore we should not be surprised at anything a fanatic does, says or posts.

Kui,

I respect you, but you can't pretend to make every post of yours a "lesson"... just relax, nothing wrong with a couple of lines, instead of an essay, ok?

alex22 (should I say sash22 ???)... you could have been more creative with the new nickname... even though we would have recognized your bitterness anyway after just a few posts...

warro, agree with you on this last post of yours...

good luck tomorrow against Olympique Lyonnais... I will escape from the office to go home and watch the game... forza Milan!!!

Originally Posted by SANT

Kui,
I respect you, but you can't pretend to make every post of yours a "lesson"... just relax, nothing wrong with a couple of lines, instead of an essay, ok?

alex22 (should I say sash22 ???)... you could have been more creative with the new nickname... even though we would have recognized your bitterness anyway after just a few posts...

warro, agree with you on this last post of yours...

good luck tomorrow against Olympique Lyonnais... I will escape from the office to go home and watch the game... forza Milan!!!

Dude, you might just drop by in my office at lunch time and we will watch the streaming video link of the game.

BTW, Kui's does not just lecture, he sounds like French... "I am telling you", "Listen...", "Do not offer... "; "Do ..." With all respect I will never be in the mood to listen or get lectured by such an arrogant "teacher", should I say preacher. And should kui not like "Saturday coffeless morning April first jokes" - tough luck - I can care less. With all respect to positive attitude, good reasoning that I appreciate I will never ever accept the "I am telling you" style. It is good in the militarry baracks and few other places that I do not go to.

to ukrainian_ca

i dont know why but even i think the way u do!!!!!! profesiore

Hey... this is the FIRST TIME in many number of seasons that I have posted anything even slightly resembling negative after a Milan lost. Mind you with what I said. There is a difference between criticizing the team from some members. I give all faith in the team and do try to conduct myself as a fan with all faith that we do and will win. I cant believe that I have confidence in some of my fellow MM fans, nor do I believe that there are fans who have confidence in this team when "all was lost" as far back as January. Sorry! I may be blunt and honest in expressing this. But when day in and day out, I hear nothing but "we should do this, we should fire him, no lets get him, no dump him... lets get him, fvck Carlo, fvck Gila, sheva to be sold, etc, etc, etc", it shows the maturity and self digression of some over the thoughtful MilanMania fans and it gets tiring. So like you Warran, these kinds of posts/comments for MONTHS has been a tax on me and some who still believe in this team, our coach, and its aspirations. Excuse me for being the "preacher" especially when some do need a teaching and yes a lecture. Why the heck should some of these fans be a part of any joy and celebration of Milan successes??? I admire thoughtful, provocative, honest criticism of our football team and its tactics. You will never hear me "preach" to honest MilanMania fans. I will open a can of whoopa$$ on any exception to this, moderator or not. And if my fellow members here have a problem with that... TOO BAD.

Now to show I'm not all a$$hole and all, I still believe in clearing the air. Seems to me I'm always the one to do the apologizing. But I believe in taking the high road here. I have yet to hear those that berate and lose faith in this team and coach do this either. But I guess people have their opinions. My first apology goes to Warro, who had to go to the trouble and settle the angst here. Good job Warro, that is what a moderator is for. The next apology one is to my Ukrainian friend from California. I think though for future reference you might want to refrain using Milan in any reference to your jokes, especially when we play against anyone and we end up on the butt end of it. Would you crack jokes about your son or daughter when they are playing in some sort of competition??? Mind you I got on your case because that line you took was not acceptable to this Milan fan. But my apology to you. Lastly I will apologize that my apology is with the condition that the points I have made is with a learned point. Let us not ever lose faith in this team. Kindly wait til the end of the season before any of us say we "lost it all" please! Kindly wait for the comments about firing the coach until May or even June. Kindly wait for the comments about selling Sheva til actually Sheva says so. If not... you bet I'll be there with finger in your eye. Not to worry... I always tell you sorry later.

FORZA MILAN!

Originally Posted by Kui

... The next apology one is to my Ukrainian friend from California. I think though for future reference you might want to refrain using Milan in any reference to your jokes, especially when we play against anyone and we end up on the butt end of it. Would you crack jokes about your son or daughter when they are playing in some sort of competition???
FORZA MILAN!

1. You did not have to. No biggie, dude.
2. Jokes are just that - jokes. The only time I tried to pull it was on April 1st Saturday when I was up at 8:30 to watch the Lecce game. I thought We would win when I pulled it our of my sleeve. And to make it more believable to "gullible" fans I made up the least believable and painful outcome.
BTW, did you know that the word "gullible" is not in standard English Webster dictionaries? There must be a reason.
3. I cannot compare a beloved child with any team, it is just wrong
to think there is any comparision. Little guys are children of god and should be treated differently from adults, they cannot get sarcasm and they might be affected by stupid and silly things further in their lives.
4. Most adults should be able to figure out when someone tries to hurt them and so forth. Some "adults" here take it too seriously and get "annoyed or pissed" to the pint that their ability to think straight and/or type is impaired.
I know some adults here were tipsy when they typed to the point that they could not copy/paste or count to 5. And I forgive those :-) cheers.

P.S.: I cannot wait to see Sheva back at Nou Camp. Barca is one of the teams that Sheva has "luck" against (Bayern and Inter are in his list too).
I had lived close to Atletico stadium and visited Sant. Bernabeu in 1991.
AC Milan played friendly warm-up in September with Atletico M. That was the match with highest number of shoot-out kicks = 24. I don't remember who won, who cares now.

Its all good Kui!

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Its all good Kui!

Thanks Warro for accepting my apology. Bear with me however as I still believe you may have misunderstood my point. I find it important that you see this so that my apology and your acceptance are both sincere. No sense in me apologizing and you forgiving if the whole point was lost or misunderstood. So allow me to go back and hash out the differences and misunderstandings.

Originally Posted by Warro

Firstly, we do deserve to win something: The team has played some wonderful football this season, so, if we can be consistent, then we do deserve a trophy...and if you are going to allow the inane comments of a few to influence you to the point where you make a statement like that, then I worry for you my friend.

I am more than happy if AC Milan win it desrvedly this time around. It was a "shock" to us all what happen last season. Many didnt take this "shock" in the best way. First of all lose an arm in an accident then we can see what shock really is like. With all the comments that have not ceased since May 2005 and in vitriolic fashion berate our team(players and coach), my feeling is that the celebration belongs to the team alone and not to such fans who just keep throwing a b!atch slap after any loss, draw, or even a victory.

Originally Posted by Warro

I beg to differ further from you here as well Kui...what you must understand, is the definition of fan.

In the event that you didnt know, fan, is short for fanatic..and any definition of fanatic can (and should) include such gems as:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kui
lack (ing)intelligence, faith, humility, and some mental stability

I like to believe that true fans are an extension and adoring spectator of the actual team who do all the work... blood sweat and tears. And as such an extension we MilanMania or any other ACMilan fan need to be better team players. Failure to do this is clearly setting apart the true lovers of this team to the psuedo ones. And if fans are not a part of this bigger team, such psuedo fan deserves no entitlement to celebrate what Sheva, Maldini, Ancellotti and co have worked so hard to accomplish. With the the bad sentiments prevailing here in MM, my address was to all of us here in MM in the "we do not deserve" the titles quote. I said this because there is just too many of these psuedos saying they love this team and in a second just slap what they claim to love down.

Originally Posted by Warro

And to expand on those very same words:

And so we shall....

Originally Posted by Warro

Intelligence: How could anyone that is intelligent expect his team to win every game? Thats what we do as fans, believe it or not. That is why you are so upset, because you thought we should have won vs Lecce, and I agree that we should have, even with a "B" team, but its not probable for us to win all the time is it?

Intelligence was the incorrect term. I meant to use a stronger term such as WISDOM. I dont expect us to win every single game. This is not what I'm disappointed at. What I'm upset at is when the alleged pundits who claim to be learned in the game blast off saying "Carlo needs to do it this way", "the line up must be like this..." etc, etc, etc. Okay... say that actually happens. It then becomes childish for such people to now go and get mad at the coach for actually doing what they(these fans) called for. Granted Carlo spills milk now and again. But it is not "pono"(Hawaiian-righteous) for these very fans to go moan and groan over such a spill when without a doubt had these clowns been in his shoes, there be no milk on the store shelves. These guys are throwing stones at someone who is solid and it is these fans who live in the glass house. You will never hear me give any tactical advice here in MilanMania. I cannot and deserve not the right to advise such things. I will implement philosophy into the picture though. I'll say things like "dont throw any Serie A games in the belief that this will gurantee a win somewhere else". In contrast look at the utilitarian application that has let the "give-up the scudetto" bunch prevail. Such a slippery slope effect has now led this team in endangering their 2nd place position. There is now serious discussion in MM about not lining up the best squad vs Inter. So now what??? Shall we continue the slip??? Many are endorsing this idea. So now what??? Is it accpetible for those very same endorsers to blame the coach for endorsing this too??? If you disagree with the utilitarians, then yes fair judgement and onus can be laid on Carlo. Too many here are unfortunately not true to their own wisdom or lack of. I got one word to describe this... starts with s and ends in d with "tupi" right in between, no intelligence or should I say WISDOM what so ever. Credit to you Warro as at least you have the WISDOM and are true to your mistakes such as....

Originally Posted by Warro

Faith: Moves mountains, but doesnt guarantee a victory in a football match, and having it (optimistic) or not (pragmatic, pessimist) is neither here nor there....but some of us have more than others...

... this one. "Moves Mountains" "FAITH, HOPE, LOVE"; all from Corinthians XIII. I was a one time preacher/teacher so these words by you come to me with much affection. Faith doesnt gurantee a win. When I used the word faith I meant it in context as in Corinthians XIII as it must include "HOPE" and "LOVE" By your humble and earnest admission, such hallowed values would have allowed you to witness those two wonderful goals you had the misfortune to miss. Such values does allow us to be solid in the comfort if not last year, through "FAITH, HOPE, LOVE" this year perhaps. If not???... The words "FAITH, HOPE, LOVE" indeed a championship again in the future as this club has "FAITHFULLY" done time and again. Corinthians XIII continues on as to what I always try to say...

Originally Posted by Corinthians XIII

LOVE suffereth long, and is kind; envieth not; LOVE vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. LOVE never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away...
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

One's covenant need not be Christian for this to ring true. Such wisdom rings out in every creed and in every person who possess spiritual values. I'm not trying to proselytize, but the words above should be observed by any decent person here. We all have our shortcoming... myself included. I never forget these lesson though.

Originally Posted by Warro

Humility: WHAT? I am an arrogant AC Milan supporter, a fan(atic) of the best club in the Universe...why should I be humble?

Yes many lack humility here Warro. Because my post was adressed to the mood/sentiment of this site, no names in specific were mentioned. Unlike this post where I am engaged in personal dialogue with you Warro,my posts will be like the one in question. It was thrown to the wind to hit those it meant to hit. Oddly and humorously enough, the only ones that did respond were the ones who I werent the guilty ones. Most if not all the folks I was aiming this at either failed to read what I was saying or just didnt want to or was to scared to go one on one with me on this. If anything... I do need work on keeping my "shotgun" style of general commentary in a holster. Indeed my friends like you Warro dont appreciate gettin hit by my shrapnel. Again sorry for that. Get the hell out of the way next time! LOL!

Originally Posted by Warro

Mental stability: We cant have any, we are fans....fanatics who will support our team win, lose or draw...going from the elation of a goal, to mind numbing depression when we concede one...impossible for us to be considered a fan, and to be mentally stable at the same time.

Fickle... oh so fickle the lot are. Fickle, fickle, fickle.

Originally Posted by Warro

Now, let me hurriedly, (if belatedly) assure Kui that I am not trying to poke fun at him, his post, or any that agree with his train of thought. We are all entitled to our individual opinions, and this is the forum in which we share them. It is my opinion, and experience, that while we can all have the love of a team (Milan) in common, how we chose to display that love will be as different as two snowflakes, or two fingerprints.

I know you dont poke fun. I hope not at least! After all that I have said and made hopefully clear for all to see where I'm coming from. Well if they have their opinions... let them have their opinions. If they love this team then IMO it is quite an abusive relationship that I'm witnessing. With such comments and sentiment going on all the time... I'll give them such a right of opinions. Mind you it doesnt go without consequence. Ku'i of Thunder always got the "shotgun" rhetoric to hit back with! Be sure I'll use it. Warro you have the moderators specially contructed "New Millenium ACM11" of the 4th generation bullet proof jacket on. So dont think I'm aiming at you ok???.

Thanks for bearing with me Warro and allowing me to making this right.

FORZA MILAN!

No problems Kui..its all good! I totally understand your position