All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by SANT

So.... what happened with the appeal?

From what i heard on RAI, the decissions for all the clubs will be known at the end of the month.
Prognozes are that there will be further points cutting for all the clubs, as for scudetto given to Milan, chances less than 1%.

Good, I don't want that Scudetto once Inter's dirt hands have already been on it

No offense intended, Karim

Originally Posted by Tony29.

From what i heard on RAI, the decissions for all the clubs will be known at the end of the month.
Prognozes are that there will be further points cutting for all the clubs, as for scudetto given to Milan, chances less than 1%.

You mean less points deducted, right?

Originally Posted by Tony29.

From what i heard on RAI, the decissions for all the clubs will be known at the end of the month.
Prognozes are that there will be further points cutting for all the clubs, as for scudetto given to Milan, chances less than 1%.

Thanks for the info Tony.
I however doubt that there will be much of a points adjustment for our club. Perhaps the adjustment might be made for Fiorentina and Lazio. Perhaps somthing a bit more merciful may come to Juve's liking. As reported, the decision will be made at the end of the month. Say we win all four games yet to come until the end of October for a gain of +12 points, will this be a determining factor in the final decision to adjust points in our favor? If we trust this new appellate hearing, this still is no gurantee that it will help us. I only hope for an honest investigation void of any bias for or against us. Again and unfortunately I'm not going to hold my breath on any positive result for us. It may come but I wouldnt be the least surprised if not.

Originally Posted by Vadim

Good, I don't want that Scudetto once Inter's dirt hands have already been on it

No offense intended, Karim

Heh, correct term would be Inter's dirt jerseys ( no offense here also, Karim ) , because scudetto is the litlle flag they have on their jerseys ( three colours, tricollore and scudetto...the same thing from what i've read)
As for the trophy...then you should say Juve's dirt hands, because the trophy is still in Torino. Juve refused to give the trophy to Inter and Italian federation, while Inter didn't ask for new one.

@Sant....yes, points deducted is what i mean, of course

@Kui ... i agree with you again. I also wouldn't be suprised if Milan keeps the -8. If for nothing else, then because if Milan gets all -8 points deducted, it will really mix up everything.
It will automatically mean Milan was not guilty, and if Milan was not guilty then those -30 points from last season must be deleted and Milan should get the scudetto, but even more important : If Milan wasn't guilty, what about the damages Milan suffered ? AC Milan played CLQ matches and lost a lot of money because of it, not to mention the damages in transfer market influenced by the punishment .

But then again....was Milan really not guilty? I saw that many of you still don't know why was Milan punished and say how Milan was guilty only for asigning refs on a match Milan lost (Siena match away in 2004/05).
But the truth is Milan was found guilty for that match only just because Galliani was caught on phone, while Meani was punished because he "asigned" referees on 2 more matches which Milan won (Fiorentina and Chievo).
So, if Milan becomes Not Guilty then exactly the same things should go for Lazio and Fiorentina and they should also start with 0 points, but the problem here is that they are allready out of Europe and it can't be changed ( if they are also found not guilty, then it's clear that they should be playing in Europe right now, which they aren't)

The situation with Juve is different because they are allready in B, and points deduction in their case may pass, because it will only make the punishment lighter, and it will not mean deleting it.
But.... if all three clubs get their punishments deleted, then it will also make Juve's punishment unreasonable, because just like in other cases, what Moggi did can as well be understood as lobying. There wasn't money involved in bying matches, no gifts given, only talking with Pairetto (the ref designator who let me remind you said :Why there are only phone calls with Moggi, when i talked to everybody?) and telling him if he agrees for some ref or he doesn't. ( we know that wasn't what Moggi , Meani and the others were doing, but on any court it will pass only as lobying...that's why FIGC didn't want all these to go to TAR, where all the punishments would have been deleted).

To sum up: Deleting Milan's punishment will automatically open all these issues i talked about, and that's why i agree with Kui that it may not happen !!

GL

Yes the decision will be profound if they deduct more points. It can help save these clubs current season be it in Serie A for Milan, Lazio, Fiorentina. What of the cost for European matches and titles? If the decison stands which I believe it will, the less legal problems for FICG or whatever its called. If not and with clemency or finding of wrongdoing within the investigation/arbitration, by all means I think Juve should have every right to seek monetary damages and such. That will go as well as the other clubs affected by Rossi's handling of the situation.

I simply don't see how they could lessen Milan's punishment and not do it for all the teams involved, which I totally agree just opens a whole new set of issues. By the same token, what crosses my mind is...is there ever a time when a decision is just that--a decision and stop trying to get it changed! Sometimes I just want to say "give it a rest!"

The dominant opinion in Italian print is all teams will get a discount. Juve + 10 and Milan + 3.

Originally Posted by Debs

I simply don't see how they could lessen Milan's punishment and not do it for all the teams involved, which I totally agree just opens a whole new set of issues. By the same token, what crosses my mind is...is there ever a time when a decision is just that--a decision and stop trying to get it changed! Sometimes I just want to say "give it a rest!"

The problem here is that noone wanted to accept the first verdicts (Juve,Lazio and Fiorentina in B with points cut, and Milan out of Europe) and they all won their first appeals. That first change of the verdicts left the door open for further appeals, and it's hard to stop now. If Guiddo Rossi and co., didn't accept the first points deduction, it would have been over, and now they can only blame themselves for this matter not being over yet.
The Italian FA ( Kui, this is how you can call them if FIGC is a problem for you, as it probably is for all of us spelling those Italian short ofs) allready lost the credibility ( Rossi episode, "don't go to TAR" deal with Juve etc) and now it's a lot easier for the 4 clubs to win the fights......... that's why i still don't see the end of this, even if Milan, Juve and the others win these appeals.

I was surprised on the Rossi appointation adn now I thought that with a new FA there would have been a better coordination of Italian football but this link to Inter sickens me to the death.
And I thougt Iatalian footbball is changing

Originally Posted by Karim Abdoun

I was surprised on the Rossi appointation adn now I thought that with a new FA there would have been a better coordination of Italian football but this link to Inter sickens me to the death.
And I thougt Iatalian footbball is changing

Well perhaps this is what makes Italy.... ITALY. At this point, I'm not going to let the mold around the edges waste what I know is fine Italian cheese.... if you get my meaning. We all enjoy Calcio Italia and should accept all the negatives with the positives. This is the way of things and historically since pre-Roman times, how this society has its dynastical cycles. Nothings ever subtle, always full of drama and indeed the reason why we like this country's league. Without all the misgivings in this social realm it might never be possible to have all the good things we experienced with our favored league.
With much hope that I will be wrong, I believe the next couple of years will be under the reign of INTER. Enjoy the moment while you have it Nerazzuri. Ressurect La Grande Inter. As I said so many times already in this thread however, and in true Roman fashion "Et tu Brute!". You just better hope that your reign has even risen.

I hope this "reign" would stay on and keep the calcio under the command of the Big Three, because it is really nice to have three clubs at the same time compete for a trophy

Originally Posted by Kui

With much hope that I will be wrong, I believe the next couple of years will be under the reign of INTER.

Oh CMON! You can't be serious? Maybe, maybe one scudetto... but couple of them? Friends call me pessimist but i'm nothing compared to you

Originally Posted by peters

Oh CMON! You can't be serious? Maybe, maybe one scudetto... but couple of them? Friends call me pessimist but i'm nothing compared to you

Obviously you totally ignored the first part of that sentence. Let me kindly remind you....

Originally Posted by Kui

With much hope that I will be wrong

Any more problems Peters? No I'm not a pessimist, quite frankly I was just about the only one here who said our past season was not over yet when we were behind some 12+ points. I dont recall you being engaged in that affair and if you were, you probably was one of the lot that just about gave up on Scudetto and quite early too. The priority in my opinion is the Champions League over that of Italian title. That is not to say I have a low opinion of Scudetto. I think we should always try to win all three titles SHIELD, CUP, and BIG CUP. Already you have people moaning about our campaign there in EUROPE this early in the season. You better hope that I dont find one of your posts with a "moaning" kind of attitude.

Now we can continue the accusation/counteraccusation if you want to. What I have said in my previous post I do hold with confidence. I also have all confidence in the possibility that we can overcome this obstacle but with the standings as they were from the start of the season, the Italian title has already been fixed. That's not called pessimism peters, that is called being well aware of the situation. Something you the admitted pessimist needs to learn.

Originally Posted by Karim Abdoun

I hope this "reign" would stay on and keep the calcio under the command of the Big Three, because it is really nice to have three clubs at the same time compete for a trophy

Now which Big Three would you be talking about? One of them IMO is in Serie B unfortunately.