Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by zlatanov

@ Filipez:
where are you getting this info from?

sky indeed

dont know how reliable this news is... we'll just have to wait untill tommorow evening.

i also read that real signed pato...

so many rumours at the moment...

Oo no , Pato hope your wrong

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

sky indeed

dont know how reliable this news is... we'll just have to wait untill tommorow evening.

i also read that real signed pato...

so many rumours at the moment...

yeah, Tony showed me where it cam from ... it's not an officia entry on their site, just a comment made by one of the forum users but we'll see what happens.

Pato? where did you get that from? I don't think they can sign both pato and Oliveira since Real has only 1 non-Eu spot left and both Oli and Pato are non-Eu players ... although they could get him now and loan him out

galliani:
'As for Kakà, we didn't speak about him. I have a good relationship with Calderon, Mihatovic and Baldini. Something might happen with Ricardo Oliveria but I don't think so. I am not denying there has been negotiations, a loan deal with Real having the chance to buy but I don't think that will take off. So, that's why Ricardo Oliveira stayed in Milan.'

so maybe oliveira stays after all.
i read the pato rumour on another forum will post the link if i know more.
and i think the rules of signing non EU players are different in spain then in italy. in italy you can only sign 1 non eu player a year, and i think in spain it doesnt matter, but you can only have 3 non eu players in your squad there...

so it is possible.. no oliveira could mean pato for them, wich would be a shame

Originally Posted by zlatanov

just a comment made by one of the forum users

Off topic :
Under that comment, another guy mentioned something interesting :
With the 20 M Euro for Oliveira ( counting Voggel ) + the 7.5 M Euro for Ronaldo, you could have made a 3 M Euro higher bid than Inter's for Zlatan Ibrahimovic and you'd have probably taken him in front of Moratti's nose.

I know the situation back then was very complicated, and Zlatan's form didn't guarantee a success, but when you have allready offered more than 20 M Euro for him, you could have given 2-3 M plus and get Ibrahimovic.
You gave 16 M + Vogel few days later for someone who was obviously no match to Zlatan.

It was a big mistake by Milan back then, and with the current purchases of attackers Galliani's indirectly proving how big mistake was made with Zlatan !

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

and i think the rules of signing non EU players are different in spain then in italy. in italy you can only sign 1 non eu player a year, and i think in spain it doesnt matter, but you can only have 3 non eu players in your squad there...

so it is possible.. no oliveira could mean pato for them, wich would be a shame

Spaniards have different rules regarding South Americans, and i'm 100% sure it's not the same with Italian rules.
I dunno how it goes exactly but i know they can sign many more southern Americans than Milan, Inter or Juve can ( even if they don't have an EU passport)

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Spaniards have different rules regarding South Americans, and i'm 100% sure it's not the same with Italian rules.
I dunno how it goes exactly but i know they can sign many more southern Americans than Milan, Inter or Juve can ( even if they don't have an EU passport)

like i said

and i agree with you about ibra... i really hoped he signed for us back than. i was one of his biggest fans.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Off topic :
Under that comment, another guy mentioned something interesting :
With the 20 M Euro for Oliveira ( counting Voggel ) + the 7.5 M Euro for Ronaldo, you could have made a 3 M Euro higher bid than Inter's for Zlatan Ibrahimovic and you'd have probably taken him in front of Moratti's nose.

I know the situation back then was very complicated, and Zlatan's form didn't guarantee a success, but when you have allready offered more than 20 M Euro for him, you could have given 2-3 M plus and get Ibrahimovic.
You gave 16 M + Vogel few days later for someone who was obviously no match to Zlatan.

It was a big mistake by Milan back then, and with the current purchases of attackers Galliani's indirectly proving how big mistake was made with Zlatan !

the dif is that when we bought RO we had already qualified for CL, while Zlatan went to Inter when our Cl qualificatio was still at stake. This, and maybe even some other factors we aren't aware of (by we I am including that forum member too ), is what influenced our approach for Zlatan and not some 3 mil euros.
if we really wanted him, once you are ready to give 20 mil, you would go the extra mile and pay 23-24 too ... plus, what makes you think that Inter wouldn't have put another 3-4 mils on the table only to top our offer and thus enter in a bidding war with them without a clear idea of what milan's future would be.
All in all, it's very easy to go back in the past and crytisize knowing that Zlatan is doing well at Inter now but I really wanna know what that forum member would be saying if Milan ended up paying 25-30 mil for Zlatan and he totally failed at Milan ...

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Spaniards have different rules regarding South Americans, and i'm 100% sure it's not the same with Italian rules.
I dunno how it goes exactly but i know they can sign many more southern Americans than Milan, Inter or Juve can ( even if they don't have an EU passport)

In Spain, they don't have any restrictions on how many non-Eu players a team can bring to La Liga within one season - that rule is strictly for Italy and Serie A - however, teams in Spain cannot have more than 5 non-EU players on their team (and it doesn't matter whether they have played for another Spanish team or not, they are still non-Eu) and cannot play/field more than 3 such non-EU at the same time.
So, it really depends how you look at it - rules in Italy are more restrictive as far as bringing in non-Eu players to Serie A goes, otherwise, it's exactly the opposite regarding the total number of non-Eu players a team can own and field.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

the dif is that when we bought RO we had already qualified for CL, while Zlatan went to Inter when our Cl qualificatio was still at stake. This, and maybe even some other factors we aren't aware of (by we I am including that forum member too ), is what influenced our approach for Zlatan and not some 3 mil euros.
if we really wanted him, once you are ready to give 20 mil, you would go the extra mile and pay 23-24 too ... plus, what makes you think that Inter wouldn't have put another 3-4 mils on the table only to top our offer and thus enter in a bidding war with them without a clear idea of what milan's future would be.

Risk has to be taken.
CL wasn't secured but was a huge possibility ( i'd say some 80%).
Inter could have offered more for the second time, or they wouldn't have offered more and decided to back up. You won't know if you don't try.
Galliani decided to quit and he lost a lot for not taking the risk.

It's like now with Juve. We bought 3 players now, but what if we don't qualify for serie A ? It's still a risk.

And i'd mention Zambrotta again, although me and you allready discussed this in the past and we have different opinion on this matter.
Milan offered money for Zambro but didn't want to accept Juve's condition ( buying him in package with Thuram). Barcelona accepted it and they got them both.
Even when you were trying to buy Zambrotta you didn't have CL secured, but you still offered money for him. The problem was you sticked to your original offer, didn't wanna risk, and lost him also at the end.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

if Milan ended up paying 25-30 mil for Zlatan and he totally failed at Milan ...

Zlatanov, it's called taking a risk ! The fact that Milan offered +20 M for Ibra is a proof itself you expected him to be a top quality. He was having a disastreous season and you still offered +20 M for him.

If you've calculated that 21 M is fair price ( i think that was Milan's offer) than you're aware he's good. Otherwise you'd have offered much less.
And sometimes you have to be prepared to give more than what you think is fair ( and don't forget - his market price got lot lower due Juve's relegation. It means that the fair price for Ibra was much higher than 21 M).
Milan didn't do anything. You made an offer, Inter made a higher offer, and that was it !

I'm aware it was a delicate situation for Milan in August, but an atempt to outbid Inter's offer wouldn't have hurt !

If Oliveira goes on loan to Real Madrid, doesnt that mean we'll free up a Non-EU spot? (and can possibly get Tevez/Pato?). Carraciolo is in the same class as Corradi and Del Vecchio. He is Premiership material, this guy absolutely sucks. I pray that we dont sign him.

How legit is the info of Pato signing Real and Real selling Cannavaro?

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Zlatanov, it's called taking a risk ! The fact that Milan offered +20 M for Ibra is a proof itself you expected him to be a top quality. He was having a disastreous season and you still offered +20 M for him.

If you've calculated that 21 M is fair price ( i think that was Milan's offer) than you're aware he's good. Otherwise you'd have offered much less.
And sometimes you have to be prepared to give more than what you think is fair ( and don't forget - his market price got lot lower due Juve's relegation. It means that the fair price for Ibra was much higher than 21 M).
Milan didn't do anything. You made an offer, Inter made a higher offer, and that was it !

I'm aware it was a delicate situation for Milan in August, but an atempt to outbid Inter's offer wouldn't have hurt !

and wasn't going for Oliveira called "taking a risk" too? See, the whole point is that after that awful second season Ibra had, if he had failed at Milan, that same guy would have come up with soemthing like "why give 30 mil for Ibra, when Oliveira/Kuit/Huntelaar etc. was available for half that" ... the problem with this way of reasoning is that it's based on a "let me go back in retrospect and judge past decisions with the facts that I NOW know" approach ... that's hardly something I could call an "argument" to be honest.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that everything has it's risks but the thing is that Milan did take one with Oliveira and it didn't work out as they planned - at least for now - in a similar way, they could have taken a risk with Ibra, who lets not forget didn't exactly set Serie A on fire in his 2nd season with Juve, and still gotten the same result.

See Ibra is great now in worry-free and supported-by-all, free-floating Inter ... but would he be the same in a trouble-ridden, post-calciopoli Milan? There is absolutely no guarantee that Ibra to Milan would have worked out any dif than Oliveira to Milan. It's easy to say "risk must be taken" but that's from the standpoint of someone who already knows the end result - Oli at Milan not so good, Ibra at Inter great - but from the standpoint of someone back then in August, either deal had it's risks and either one could go south under certain circumstances ... and Milan did take one such risk, they went for Oliveira.

Also, as I mentioned, if you are REALLY willing to go with 20+ fpr one striker, are 3-4 more mil gonna stop you? Of course not, but that's true only if you REALLY intended to have that player no matter what ... well, Milan didn't fit that description because:
1) we are not sure how decided Galliani were on getting Ibra and whether they truely believed that he was what they were looking for and
2) they were not sure of CL football so getting Ibra immediately was not something they could do ... they had to play the wayting game and I am sure that even if Milan's offere had proven to be enough to get Ibra, the actual transfer would have taken place only ON CONDITION that Milan qualify for CL ... Ibra and Inter however had other plans - Inter had the luxury of not having to wait, while Ibra had the personal interest of not wanting to wait and go for the sure thing.
So, there you go - 3-4 mil more is nothing but if you REALLY want that player. Things change, however, if you'd be interested in that player only if some other circumstances (Cl qualification) take place.

Now Galliani, on the official website said that he was/is (?) discussing the Oli situation. The deal would be loan for six months and the option to buy. This makes one thing clear: WE HAVE OFFICIALLY GIVEN UP ON OLIVIERA! I wonder how much motivated Oli might be after knowing that he is not needed at Milan.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Risk has to be taken.
CL wasn't secured but was a huge possibility ( i'd say some 80%).
Inter could have offered more for the second time, or they wouldn't have offered more and decided to back up. You won't know if you don't try.
Galliani decided to quit and he lost a lot for not taking the risk.

It's like now with Juve. We bought 3 players now, but what if we don't qualify for serie A ? It's still a risk.

And i'd mention Zambrotta again, although me and you allready discussed this in the past and we have different opinion on this matter.
Milan offered money for Zambro but didn't want to accept Juve's condition ( buying him in package with Thuram). Barcelona accepted it and they got them both.
Even when you were trying to buy Zambrotta you didn't have CL secured, but you still offered money for him. The problem was you sticked to your original offer, didn't wanna risk, and lost him also at the end.

For a transfer as big as Ibra's - outbidding Inter would have meant Milan's improved bid being 25-30 mil euros - Milan have to either directly ask Silvio for money or make sure that the honey jar is gonna be full before they take a big handfull out of it i.e. they had to be sure that CL money was a guarantee before they could go out and splash such big amount.
Also, we don't know Milan's finances and plans for the future - a new stadium has been discussed - so let's not speculate why Milan didn't just take from the money they got from Sheva

Which brings me to my other point - while I agree that Juve's desire to sell Thuram in a package deal with Zambro may have had a certain negative effect on Milan's willingness to get the Italian, there is absolutely no guarantee that Milan didn't also want to wait till CL qualification was secured and only then go for Zambrotta - in fact, I am certain that this played an even bigger role than anything else (and let's not forget that there were some big question marks regarding the relations between Milan and Juve at the time).
In fact, when Zambro's transfer to Barca was being finalized, I am not sure that Milan were even aware of their future i.e. whether they will play CL qualifiers at all.
So, chances are that for Zambro going to Barca was a no-brainer once Milan started to stall the deal andtry to buy time ... It's not like he didn't wanna go and play for the CL winners.

As for Juve getting players before they have even qualified for Serie A - I doubt there is a soul in Italy that doubts that it will happen as early as next season.
But let me ask you something - did Juve buy those player while there were still -17 pts from the top, or did they startmaking plans for Serie A football only after they not only caught up with the other teams but actually took the lead in Serie B?
One other question - And how much exactly are Grygera and Salihamidzich gonna cost you in transfer fees? ... Why do you think they are going for free agents now rather than finalize the transfers of expensive players like Barzagli, Huntelaar and whatnot right now as opposed to during the summer? ... see my point