UCL QF: AC Milan vs Bayern Munich

Originally Posted by Jeff

My prediction: Milan, if go through Bayern, will not win in the semi final. But I would say that Milan won't even be able to beat Bayern this year, losing on away goal (1-1 in Munich is my call).

Just my two cents... constructive, thoughtful opinions welcome.

What you've wrote was constructive Jeff. Yet I will respectfully disagree with you. We only need Tuesday's performance minus the awful mistakes and we can beat not only Bayern but any team out there.
Perhaps we shall try to find some consensus between us?
It is apparent by many that Milan has played not even 1 decent game all season. The question is "when?". Are all games this season going to not be satisfactory to any here in this forum? You see I'll take those odds against the many who are pessimistic about our chances to get by Bayern and to go further than that. If we are at rock bottom as so much have come to agree on, and with a "so-so" game against Bayern. We can do no worse but go back up... no???
This is my two cents and I'll back it up 100%. IMO it is gold!

Kui...you brought up a good point, something that's stirred my hope. There is NO WAY to go but up for Milan, definatley.

I think many of us are looking for that "perfect" game. I know, I know, there's no such thing as perfection, but we can come close. Milan of the past HAS done so. We're asking for something like a 100 percent match fit defense (not just feeling good, but feeling excellent), a CL level Oddo, a non-invisible Janku, Kaka-Pirlo-Seedorf at their biting best, a clear-headed Rino, an on-form striker with a 1/3 odds of scoring and...really good hair. Now while our defense does have the best coiffed locks in Europe , for all those other pieces of the Milan XI puzzle to fall into place AT THE SAME TIME is more like a dream nowadays than anything close to reality. If Kaka is brilliant then Pirlo and Gila aren't, if Rino's winning balls and intercepting like crazy then Ambro and Seedorf are losing them, if Nesta is awake then the rest of the defence isn't and vice versa...but that doesn't mean that Milan can't TRY and look for that "perfect" game. Not that we can't be proud of what we've done so far, but all Milan fans know that there is so much more to this team. I for one will not rule out the fnals in Athens, even though every journalist and non-milanista has already done so.

It's all in the head really. As many have mentioned here, we have a squad bursting with insane talent but only 50+ mins worth of the right mentality. We have all the patience in the world (and so do the fans eh, guys?), but I didn't see that 'next-level' football or the concentration in mid-field to back it up. Goals that should lift us and better our game, make us lose focus and flutter. Every small lapse in concentration proves to be a decisive goal against us. Milan.com boasts headlines like 'the players still beleive' and "the dream is still alive'...well, that's nice guys, but you have to show that ferocity on the field. We're not playing Roma (god forbid) or Chelsea...it's Bayern Monaco for god's sake, could UEFA be on our corrupted side any more than this?

Bayern players walked away smiling, as if they'd just beat Milan at it's best when we all know the devil has yet to be released from it's cage. I've already said this before and I'll say it again, albeit a little differently now..it's DO OR DIE MILAN. "So-so" is not enough. You can't win games on the 'awesomeness of how you were 3 years ago', you can't blame injuries, or the ref or the point deductions. We brought this on ourselves. I don't want us to fly outta Germany in our shiny D&G suits, with nothing to show for all the crap the ragazzi went through this season to get to where we are now.

Sorry if that sounded overly dramatic guys. I'm in a strange mood. Forgive me.

Mehdi, I said Oddo performed badly, i did not say he had anything to do with the goals we conceded.

Anyway lets not keep our hopes up and just hope for the best.

Originally Posted by joeycuccaro

so what needs to happen for us to advance guys? I thought away goals on aggregate count as 2. So on aggregrate we are down 4-2? If we win 1-0 at bayern wouldnt that equal 4-4, sending that to extra time and possibly pks?

No, it's currently 2-2 on aggregate, but Bayern have that BIG advantage of two away goals. Away goals count as one.

A nil-nil or one-all tie, and Bayern are through.
A 2-2 draw would result in a round of PKs.
Anything above that (3-3 and up), or a victory, and we advance.

It could be worse, I suppose...at least we didn't get reamed 3-0 at home like PSV.

Originally Posted by Kui

What you've wrote was constructive Jeff. Yet I will respectfully disagree with you. We only need Tuesday's performance minus the awful mistakes and we can beat not only Bayern but any team out there.
Perhaps we shall try to find some consensus between us?
It is apparent by many that Milan has played not even 1 decent game all season. The question is "when?". Are all games this season going to not be satisfactory to any here in this forum? You see I'll take those odds against the many who are pessimistic about our chances to get by Bayern and to go further than that. If we are at rock bottom as so much have come to agree on, and with a "so-so" game against Bayern. We can do no worse but go back up... no???
This is my two cents and I'll back it up 100%. IMO it is gold!

I have been thinking about this, too, about this 'regression to the mean' hypothesis. But is it likely that it'll happen next game, with Gila out and the pressure mounting on Milan, who needs to produce a win AWAY?

All Milan teams in the past year (i.e., since 2002 to 2006), I will say, HELL YES. But this year? No. I didn't see the winning mentality that the team has demonstrated in the past. For example, they have been awful in terms of defending a lead. It was not like this before. Milan, despite being 'dominated' for the last 15 minutes usually in the game (when they were leading) continued to defend well. It's a matter of confidence. But I don't see ANY confidence in this team right now, when two not-so-difficult-to-defend high ball resulted in TWO goals, with fingers pointing at each other why the goals were conceded... this Milan is simply not the same Milan that I have seen, and I am not the kind of person who says this easily, (as you know since you are around long enough).

Even if Milan go through Bayern, I don't see them as a champion team this year. Roma, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Man U do. I'm referring to the 'mentality', the hunger to win. Milan has the hunger, for the first 45 minutes, then somehow it just dies away, fearing that 1) if it's 0-0, they won't score in the second half; 2) if it's 1-0 or 2-1, they'll concede another goal. This, of course, turns out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We'll see how Milan played against Empoli this week; I haven't seen any consistency this year at Milan, and you BUILD consistency. It doesn't come to you all of a sudden.

And this is why I'm not optimistic, this time round.

Well we dont know for sure Jeff if they indeed have no yearning for success. You would at least agree that the fire within them has yet been released no? This is what I'm banking on. Yeah... it is a long one, but still we've havent seen anything from them as yet. It will come, it has to come. What better time than the closing weeks of the season. They are darn well aware of the consequences if they fail to produce anything.... a new coach meaning a high likeliness of leaving the club or content on the bench. I still believe we are looking at this years CL Cup winners.

Originally Posted by Kui

Well we dont know for sure Jeff if they indeed have no yearning for success. You would at least agree that the fire within them has yet been released no? This is what I'm banking on. Yeah... it is a long one, but still we've havent seen anything from them as yet. It will come, it has to come. What better time than the closing weeks of the season. They are darn well aware of the consequences if they fail to produce anything.... a new coach meaning a high likeliness of leaving the club or content on the bench. I still believe we are looking at this years CL Cup winners.

I hope I can be as optimistic as you . Well, I can't blame Carlo too much; after all, who can he use? This squad is completely depleted, both psychologically and physically. Let's hope that Milan will get into CL next year, and it's time to really rebuild the squad. no major changes needed, but some adjustments required.

Finally, I must admit that it's time to change, not in a dramatic way, but some have to leave, some will stay. It's time.

Originally Posted by curry chicken

Kui...you brought up a good point, something that's stirred my hope. There is NO WAY to go but up for Milan, definatley.

I think many of us are looking for that "perfect" game. I know, I know, there's no such thing as perfection, but we can come close. Milan of the past HAS done so. We're asking for something like a 100 percent match fit defense (not just feeling good, but feeling excellent), a CL level Oddo, a non-invisible Janku, Kaka-Pirlo-Seedorf at their biting best, a clear-headed Rino, an on-form striker with a 1/3 odds of scoring and...really good hair. Now while our defense does have the best coiffed locks in Europe , for all those other pieces of the Milan XI puzzle to fall into place AT THE SAME TIME is more like a dream nowadays than anything close to reality. If Kaka is brilliant then Pirlo and Gila aren't, if Rino's winning balls and intercepting like crazy then Ambro and Seedorf are losing them, if Nesta is awake then the rest of the defence isn't and vice versa...but that doesn't mean that Milan can't TRY and look for that "perfect" game. Not that we can't be proud of what we've done so far, but all Milan fans know that there is so much more to this team. I for one will not rule out the fnals in Athens, even though every journalist and non-milanista has already done so.

It's all in the head really. As many have mentioned here, we have a squad bursting with insane talent but only 50+ mins worth of the right mentality. We have all the patience in the world (and so do the fans eh, guys?), but I didn't see that 'next-level' football or the concentration in mid-field to back it up. Goals that should lift us and better our game, make us lose focus and flutter. Every small lapse in concentration proves to be a decisive goal against us. Milan.com boasts headlines like 'the players still beleive' and "the dream is still alive'...well, that's nice guys, but you have to show that ferocity on the field. We're not playing Roma (god forbid) or Chelsea...it's Bayern Monaco for god's sake, could UEFA be on our corrupted side any more than this?

Bayern players walked away smiling, as if they'd just beat Milan at it's best when we all know the devil has yet to be released from it's cage. I've already said this before and I'll say it again, albeit a little differently now..it's DO OR DIE MILAN. "So-so" is not enough. You can't win games on the 'awesomeness of how you were 3 years ago', you can't blame injuries, or the ref or the point deductions. We brought this on ourselves. I don't want us to fly outta Germany in our shiny D&G suits, with nothing to show for all the crap the ragazzi went through this season to get to where we are now.

Sorry if that sounded overly dramatic guys. I'm in a strange mood. Forgive me.

Despite calling Bayern Munich (or Munchen), Bayern Monaco, I think this an excellent post.

Geez!!!! Are we giving up already? As drucurl says, we are a fickle bunch! (if break any copyright laws on the word "fickle", i humbly apologise).

When Milan have their heads in the right the place and they are "in the mood", they can beat any team imho.

Milan's biggest problem is concentration, thats whats costing us the titles over the last few seasons.

example:UCL final 04-05, half-time lead of 3-0 and we lose on penalties!
that day was the turning point for our team imho.

And its not just individuals, the whole team switches off. When that happens you conceed goals and potentially lose matches.

Most of the goals this season have been let in because of a lapse in concentration. Defence makes silly mistakes, however the midfield should do there job in shielding the defence.

Wasn't it the 04-05 UCL that we hadn't conceeded a goal until the quater-finals? Know it was a recent season.

Maybe its time for the concentration classes to be compulsory again?

With regards to the match there were good things and bad things.

Bad:
-early in the match gila,kaka and seerdorf weren't combining well
-lapse in concentration allowed them to score 2 goals
-didn't clear the ball out of the box quicker enough in the latter stages
-wrong subs imho
-age of players started to affect stamina and performance
-midfield didn't close down fast enough

Good:
-as match progressed gila,kaka and seerdorf combined better
-gila first touch was better
-we created space and chances
-nesta proved how important he is to our defence
-jankul ran his heart out in that match
-rino chase down everyball
-milan dominated the game and dictated the pace

What I would have done differently:
-would have left gila on the field, missing the away leg anyway and gives lucio/van buyten something to deal with in the air
-would have brought brocchi on instead of gourcuff,we were leading and needed to stop their attacks. brocchi/rino charging down everything
-jankul ran his tank dry, so kaladze isn't a bad option. defensively he is better
-would replaced maldini with bonera, young fresh legs in defence would have been better although could have led to a goal anyway

then again there are reasons why i'm not the coach so we might have lost 5-0 if i was

in fairness to the team and gila/ambro, rensing made to fantastic reflex saves to deny us.

a few days and we will all be on the edge of our seats biting our nails and shouting at our players.

until then....

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

Mehdi, I said Oddo performed badly, i did not say he had anything to do with the goals we conceded.

Anyway lets not keep our hopes up and just hope for the best.

What you said was :

OMG Oddo was so bad today. This is the 3rd REALLY bad game for Oddo, and surprise surprise his other 2 bad games were both in the CL against Celtic. His inexperience is costing us dearly.

He is not playing poorly at all, in fact along with Jankulovski he has been our best defender this season.

Stez...while Rooney looked good scoring, he was unmarked, in acres of space, with all the time in the world to chest the ball, then place it...all without being tackled..so while I do admit it was a "good" goal, I dont know much about it being "Quality" or better than the second Roma strike...

Not exactly what i was getting at, i described it as a flowing move because it went from Van Der Sar's throw out to Ronaldo rounding 2 players to Ole feeding in the perfect cross to Rooney showing great composure and a textbook finish. It took roughly ten seconds from Roma attack to Utd goal, and every part of the move was faultless.

The second Roma goal was a decent finish but it came from a keeping error

I was going to write a post on this subject too but there wouldnt be much point as everything i planned to say has already been said by JMacpherson

all we have to do is win to move on.
teams do this all the time in every sport.
its time to show some character and get a road win...
we are only one win from the CL semi-finals. keep the faith!!!

Originally Posted by Stezagud

Not exactly what i was getting at, i described it as a flowing move because it went from Van Der Sar's throw out to Ronaldo rounding 2 players to Ole feeding in the perfect cross to Rooney showing great composure and a textbook finish. It took roughly ten seconds from Roma attack to Utd goal, and every part of the move was faultless.

The second Roma goal was a decent finish but it came from a keeping error

ONE flowing move and longball, after longball after longball. They got everyone back and defended deep. They showed so little ambition, fearing Roma's pace down the flanks, it was embarrassing.

actually the most common plan was give the ball to Ronaldo and let him run with it, not that it matters what you do when your down to 10 and playing away from home in the cl