UCL SF 1st Leg: Manchester United vs. Milan

Bolton who have beaten Arsenal this season (twice I think) play 4-5-1 often and are a very phsyical side. They also boasted one of the selfishiest defences in the EPL. Manu beat them 4-0 with this formation.

Manu know how to negate the 4-5-1 formation, Ferguson has been around the block many a time.

There are variations within variations here Boltons 4-5-1 is different to that of Arsenal and Milan. The major difference is the style of attack, Bolton hit long to Davies who then feeds the incoming Diouf and Anelka. Utds defence with Vidic in is easily strong enough to deal with that style of attack and anything he didnt win was covered by Rio's anticipation.

Milan and Arsenal play the same paper tactics but build up through the side on the ground, this exploits Utds slow central midfield (one of the reasons Hargreaves is wanted) and if Kaka can break from midfield he will get space to attack.

Seriously, I admire KUI's optimism, I think in mindset or character terms we range as far as possible from both extremities when it comes to optimism vs. pessimism.

I was never the "cheerleader" type before Istanbul but I had enough confidence in Milan to for example watch next Sunday's match vs. Messina with optimism of a good result, but the me "post Istanbul syndrome" is an eternal pessimist, I fear and picture all the worse possible case scenarios so I won't get hurt as much as that final night in Turkey, I almost felt my heart break in my chest, as if someone from my family had died... I have an Istanbul syndrome lol.

Of course deep in my heart I picture Maldini lifting the Cup one more time, but that's way deep, and shhhhh don't tell anyone lol.

Anyway when I try to look objectively at the situation, KUI's optimism of calling us already the CL winners of this edition is as bizarre as me picturing us getting a worse beating than Roma... although in football anything is possible, we should know that by now. I hope KUI's right, oh God I hope so, but don't blame me for not falling in an euphoric state just yet, I'll do that when Milan wins the final and the referee blows the final whistle, not a second before!

As Milan fans we should by right all be optimists..... Milan though the best gentlemen ever to grace a football pitch are by and large a bunch of arrogant bastards on the field (not in general and not as persons) Its only this year that I have ever us taking smaller teams (inter included )seriously.

I wonder how many people remember the year that we won the CL...I think we lost to Inter, Piacenza and Empoli ( aka the small clubs) that year ....while we beat Madrid Bayern Ajax AND Juve in the champions' league!! what's up with that?

The thing is Milan ususally lose the way Lennox Lewis lost to Hasim Rahman.....Lennox KNEW that he was soooo much better than Hasim and at one point had the gaul to point at Hasim and Laugh.....Hasim of course duly knocked him out....did that prove that Hasim was better than Lewis??? HELL NO...Lennox came right back and beat the sh!t out of him......in a way Liverpool and Deportivo were just like that.....After getting such huuuuuge leads against both....its only human at some point to "point-and-laugh" as it were!!!

Our concentration has had to be especially strong as we are slightly shorthanded in terms of talent this year with the loss of sheva, unavailibility of Ronaldo and the age factor playing heavily in our defence. So for this season if we win at any stage I will say "BRAVO" and salute our heroes...if we lose...they deserve no less accolades for their accomplishnments on such scant resources....especially taking into account Bayern, Madrid, Arsenal, Barcelona and Valencia haven't made it as far as we have.

honestly with that rubbish striker gila....and Olivera not adapting (aka playing selfish crap), I don't really expect us to beat ManU, who on paper seem superior to us.....of course if he scores I'll be the first to apologise and praise him....Winning or losing this tie has not much effect on me....I'll still wear my Milan shirts every week and support every one of my soldiers(even Gila ) to the bitter end.

Hi drucurl...

I was just passing by when I saw your nickname and I was obliged to say "Hello" and Good Luck against Manchester

Remember me??

sure!!!! good to hear from a distinguished user such as yourself!! even more respect for keeping your username

Originally Posted by drucurl

sure!!!! good to hear from a distinguished user such as yourself!! even more respect for keeping your username

We have another scandal. Thanks God

couple paradigms in all sports:
1- never looked past your next opponent
2- anyone can beat anyone on a given day
3- experience counts a lot
4- always have faith in your team...

i look at the man u match up as 50-50...we can shut down anyone. we can play a defencive game, and win. Question remains, can we score?

i cant wait for the ronaldo, king of the step-over,vs Maldini/Nesta/Oddo/Gatusso/Pirlo ... I see him being fouled frequently around mid-field.
giggs and rooney dont scare me... schoals is medoecre.
if portsmouth can beat them...

i cant wait for the ronaldo, king of the step-over,vs Maldini/Nesta/Oddo/Gatusso/Pirlo ... I see him being fouled frequently around mid-field.

thats a good point actually, does anyone know which Milan players are carrying bookings into this game? a few misplaced tackles or cynical fouls and there could be a few players missing the 2nd leg or potential final....

giggs and rooney dont scare me... schoals is medoecre.

Believe me, you dont get a medal haul like Scholes has by being mediocre, he has been touted as beating Ronaldo and Drogba to the player of the season award this year, and he'll probably win goal of the season too for this little effort:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjnJq...elated&search=

Scholes is such an underrated player because he shuns the celebrity side of the game, no media deals, no talkshows, he doesnt even have an agent! If he had Beckhams looks and mentality he'd have got the acclaim he deserves, which is a sad indictment of the modern game imho

Originally Posted by icculus

couple paradigms in all sports:
1- never looked past your next opponent
2- anyone can beat anyone on a given day
3- experience counts a lot
4- always have faith in your team...

i look at the man u match up as 50-50...we can shut down anyone. we can play a defencive game, and win. Question remains, can we score?

i cant wait for the ronaldo, king of the step-over,vs Maldini/Nesta/Oddo/Gatusso/Pirlo ... I see him being fouled frequently around mid-field.
giggs and rooney dont scare me... schoals is medoecre.
if portsmouth can beat them...

i agree with you on most points except ronaldo as the king of step-overs. Pls don't joke with me on this, his step-overs are really crap. His legs are moving over the ball but the ball is usually close to stationary when he is doing so, my friends, man U supporters personally think his step-overs are crap and i concur. The king of step-over is Robinho, you go and find some video of him, he do step over while running at full speed with the ball, i was shocked when i first saw him. The only step-over i have seen that are as fast came from the young Ronaldo(our own one).

My lasting image form the previous Man U meeting is that of Cafu taking the ball away from c.ronaldo. That young punk was doing his fancy step-overs in front of Cafu, cafu look at him then back to the ball and just take the ball away right from his feet and run all the way up field with the ball. ronaldo just stand there and give a look of dis-belief. What make it more enjoyable is man u fans commenting that cafu make ronaldo look like a monkey.

Originally Posted by hwmook

Sometimes is an understatement, they have been struggling all season in UCL bar the 1 match against roma. I really don't know what these guys have been smoking. 1 good game and the team is treated like gods. Ronaldo is not hard to stop, cafu already shown how it is done, look at his feet and then just take the ball away from him.

I believe Milan has superior quality especially in the defence and midfield department.

Wait, they have Saha the greatest striker the french have produced in over 100 years. He would run circles around the henry of 04' and the platini of 84' dont mess

Originally Posted by Stezagud

thats a good point actually, does anyone know which Milan players are carrying bookings into this game? a few misplaced tackles or cynical fouls and there could be a few players missing the 2nd leg or potential final....

maldini and bonera has 2 yellow cards, other than that gatusso, ambro, seedorf, kaladze, janku all got 1. Maldini can play the first leg and rest for the second leg.

Originally Posted by drucurl

I don't really expect us to beat ManU, who on paper seem superior to us.........Winning or losing this tie has not much effect on me....I'll still wear my Milan shirts every week and support every one of my soldiers(even Gila ) to the bitter end.

Nice post overall dru, but I differ with regard to a head to head comparison of Man U and us player for player on paper:


Man U.................AC Milan
GVan der Sar = Dida, or Dida is >
DNemanja Vidic < Nesta
DGabriel Heinze < or = Marek Janku
DPatrice Evra > or = Cafu
DJohn O'Shea > or = Favalli
DRio Ferdinand < Maldini/Bonera
DGary Neville < Oddo
DWes Brown < Kaladze
DMikael Silvestre > or = Costacurta
MMichael Carrick < Ambrosini/Pirlo
MDarren Fletcher < Rino
MRyan Giggs < Seedorf
MPaul Scholes < Pirlo
M Kieran Richardson < Gourcuff
M Cristiano Ronaldo < Kaka
M Ji-Sung Park < Seedorf
FOle Gunnar Solskjaer < Pippo
FWayne Rooney > or = Gilardino
FLouis Saha > Oliveira
FAlan Smith N/A, as Ronaldo isnt eligible.

Now I didnt spend as much time as I should on the analysis above, as I am not sure what side the DBs play on, to properly compare them with ours...but you can see, on paper, that man for man, they are not better than we are at all....but as a team, they might be, on a given night.

They may have more pace, in more positions, but pace alone does not a ball game win. Their forwards may be better than ours by and large, but they are certainly not superior to our defenders.

So I maintain that they can be beaten, and Milan should be able to do the job.

I know you rushed your list Warro, but i kind of disagree with some of your comparisons

2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses isnt bad against our nearest rivals. The Liverpool game was won late but both of the Arsenal defeats came in the last few minutes too so luck has more than evened out over the 5 matches. As for the win at Anfield, Utd didnt have to win at all, a draw would have been a good result as our lead was effectively 7 points with the goal difference included. Liverpool wanted to win to overhaul Chelsea though losing ended their hopes of that, and if that wasnt motivation enough the chance to derail Utds title bid would have ensured they played at 100%, dont underestimate the depth of rivalry between the clubs

At the time of that game at Anfield, there were 10+ games left to play in the EPL with one of them seeing ManU visit Chelski ... with that in mind, 7 pts were far from enough and it was indeed a must win game for manU - and if I am not wrong, manU's current lead over Chelski is quite curiously exactly 3 pts with that game at Stamford Bridge yet to come

As for Pool, you can't compare fighting for the title with hoping to maybe get 2nd spot. By then Pool were already out of the title race and the dif between 2nd or 3rd spot was not a season-defining one, so for them that game was everything but a must-win one with CL coming before anything else, given that they were virtually guaranteed a spot among the first 4 in the EPL.

And as you said, the intensity of rivalry shouldn't be forgotten either - but the same argument works for ManU too ... my point however was that it was Pool who dominated the game - their domination was quite obvious - and that was one of the 2 games vs quality teams manU has managed to win so far in the EPL.
You are right, a 2-1-2 record isn't bad but it is not that impressive either, actually, it's quite average considering how one of those wins came at Anfield.
The dif between that ManU win and the game they lost to Arsenal in the dying minutes of regular time is that Arsenal won a game which they dominated, while ManU won that game completely against the run of play and "luck" like that strikes only once in a while.

All in all, don't get me wrong Steza, I do see ManU as a solid, a very solid team - they wouldn't be on top of EPL and at the SFs of CL if they weren't - but the reason I am going after them is this whole ManU-mania that has overwhelmed fans and "experts" alike after one odd result in that game vs Roma when, if one takes a more sober look at their results vs quality opposition this year, one would be anything but mightily impressed.

All you could see in British tabloids and manU forums is people wondering not who between ManU and Milan will go thru but how many goals ManU will manage to score in the process of reaching the final ... not much of a dif than what it was 2 years ago when Rooney and CR were supposed to run circles around Milan'd old rearguard ... now, the least they could do is show some respect ... why lessons have to be taught twice, I am asking

on a dif note: do you know when Neville, Vidic, Saha, and Park are supposed to be back? I think I read that neville is out for the season, same with Sylvestre, while Vidic had a collar bone broken and may very well miss both Milan ties.

Not sure on the comparisons Warro, id say more like this:

GK__VDS = Dida - if he hadnt had a bad 2 weeks VDS would have got this

RB__Neville > Oddo - Neville is highly experienced and much underrated.

CB__Rio > Maldini - Much as i love Maldini he simply hasnt matched Rio for consistency this season, not really fair as he is 38 and Rio is in his prime but thats the way it is.

CB__Vidic < Nesta - Similar players but Nesta has more to his game. Vidic is exceptional in the air but Milan wont be playing to his strengths

LB__Evra > Janku - Evra has been brilliant this year and must be doing well to be undisputed no.1 for the position over Heinze. Janku isnt quite as natural to the role imho.

CM__Carrick < Pirlo - but not as clear cut as many would believe, they are very similar players, neither have pace to burn but both have excellent range of passing, control the tempo well and can threaten from range.

CM__Scholes = Gattuso - Gattuso is better at the defensive role but Scholes carries far more attacking threat. I rate them even as they are equally as vital to their sides despite their differences as players.

CM__Giggs > Ambrosini - Very different types of players but Giggs is increasingly versatile and a consistent threat

AM__Ronaldo > Seedorf - I fear a few Milan fans are underestimating Ronaldo here, he may do more tricks than necesary but dont discount just how much of a threat he is. Clarence has his good days but not as frequently as he should.

SS__Rooney < Kaka - This is the position that will decide the tie and if Kaka performs he will be the matchwinner and propel Milan to the final. Rooney doesnt usually reach his domestic levels in Europe but now he has been restored to his true position he has 2 in 2 vs Roma and if he keeps his temper under control he can do much damage.

CF__Smith/Saha < Gila - Gila is the most natural finisher of the 3 despite his occasional troubles this season. Niether Smith or Saha are likely to be fully fit anyway

This does assume Milan play a 4-5-1 with Kaka supporting Gila and Utd play a 4-4-2/4-3-3 with Giggs helping central midfield while Ronaldo gets more attacking license, that is Fergies usual counter to 4-5-1.