UCL Final - Milan vs. Liverpool... Athens, May 23rd

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Well, I tend to agree with rome1977 on this point...the media are doing their best to stir up some controversy, and are looking stupid, well, at least for those fans who read carefully.

Milan, and our players always go out of our way to be polite to opponents...and conduct ourselves as true gentlemen.

Hence my disbelief at the "half-time celebrations" that some Liverpool players claimed they heard.

Regardless, this is all semantics, and media driven to generate readership...

The match is a few days hence...and that will be where all concerned will have to put up, or shut up.

I partially agree. Yes, the media has done its job of twisting words, and the players are speaking in platitudes, but the stuff Gerrard said about Gattuso is in print. It is perhaps cynical of the media to remember it now, but it's there.

Hello all

looking forward to hopefully a great match

I get the impression you're underestimating us a bit

I hear a lot of 'Gerrard is your only top player' and although I think he's our best you're selling the others short

Riise, Gerrard and Alonso (in that order) can all score from 30 yards regardless of the oppostion and/or keeper. No, it doesn't happen every match but all they need is a half yard of space and a sniff of goal. Alonso can hit a fly in from 60 yards across the pitch as well.

Crouch is only an ariel threat as far as assists are concerned and I'd be a lot more worried if the ball is at his feet. try youtube for his hattrick against Arsenal for starters. Bellamy is less consistent, but when he's in the mood defenders have a horrible time with his pace - Barca and Manu didn't know what to do with him. I think Vidic had to change pants at half time.

You've got Kewell to consider as well. End of last season and at the world cup he was in fine form and has looked very good in his few games backafter a season out. He'll probably be average on the day (if he plays) but he's a dark horse that you'll have limited video of playing with the current side.

I could go on about the rest but I think these players are more cause for concern than you think.

May the best team win

Undoubtedly redconn...Liverpool does not = Gerrard...in the same way that Milan is not = to Kaka...

We both have quality players in our teams, though, I consider us, on paper, to have more talent all round.

We may have made the mistake in Istanbul, fan and players alike, to underestimate your team, but this wont be the case in Athens.

Our focus is at an all time high, and having overcome all that was thrown at us at the beginning of the season, we will be fighting to the last breath for this trophy...there are times when the team that wants it more wins...and I believe that this is one such case: Milan definately want it more, IMO.

I do agree with your last line wholeheartedly though:

Originally Posted by redconn

May the best team win.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Undoubtedly redconn...Liverpool does not = Gerrard...in the same way that Milan is not = to Kaka...

We both have quality players in our teams, though, I consider us, on paper, to have more talent all round.

We may have made the mistake in Istanbul, fan and players alike, to underestimate your team, but this wont be the case in Athens.

Our focus is at an all time high, and having overcome all that was thrown at us at the beginning of the season, we will be fighting to the last breath for this trophy...there are times when the team that wants it more wins...and I believe that this is one such case: Milan definately want it more, IMO.

I do agree with your last line wholeheartedly though:

While it is true that Milan no = Kaka we are heavily dependant on him. Last time we had Kaka, Crespo, Sheva in attack....this time all we have is Kaka, while they have Pennant, Crouchinho, Bellamy (very fast striker) and Kuyt.
It will be down to our midfield quality, Seedorf and Pirlo pulling the strings and Ambro/ Gattuso doing the dirty work and Kaka creating hopefully enough magic to see us through..and YES Kaladze should kill....er...er..I meant mark Crouchinho

Originally Posted by drucurl

While it is true that Milan no = Kaka we are heavily dependant on him. Last time we had Kaka, Crespo, Sheva in attack....this time all we have is Kaka, while they have Pennant, Crouchinho, Bellamy (very fast striker) and Kuyt.
It will be down to our midfield quality, Seedorf and Pirlo pulling the strings and Ambro/ Gattuso doing the dirty work and Kaka creating hopefully enough magic to see us through..and YES Kaladze should kill....er...er..I meant mark Crouchinho

Does this have anything to do with Crouch pulling on the dreadlocks of your compatriot?

Kuyt is a key player for Liverpool? he has a worse goal-scorin' record than Gilardino in the CL...

For the time I managed to stay awake during that semifinal match, he did look the more dangerous of the two strikers against Chelsea.

Originally Posted by zZ[-_-]Zz

Kuyt is a key player for Liverpool? he has a worse goal-scorin' record than Gilardino in the CL...

He's useful and a good player, but I wouldn't consider him a key attacking threat.

If he get's a goal, it'll be because he's in the right place at the right time (which is a skill) and he can finish. Not because of some piece of blinding skill for the highlight films.

tactically, he's a key player because he never stops running and won't give you any time to pick out passes from defense.

Slow as a 3 legged tortoise walking on glass though.

c. ronaldo's CL scoring record isn't any better but stop him and ManU is done ...

Kuyt is a key player to building Pool's attacks and holding off defenders and midfielders with his strong physique, pretty good areal ability, constant running and excellent play-making skills, which help him build the attack and set up his teammates ...

that's what makes him an important player, not his goal record, which this year is not far from abysmal, I guess, but he more than makes up for it in the other areas of his game.

For instance, Drogba didn't score vs Pool either but was easily the most dangerous player for his team up front with his physical presence and ability to get to the high balls and combine with his teammates ... without him, Chelski may very well not have even scored a goal in that tie.

watch out for Kuyt in the final, he will be Rafa's key to attampt wearing down and pressing Milan's defense when they try to play around the ball with the midfielders

Kuyt had an abundance of chances to score but still hasn't scored yet... many times he was in the right place at the right time... so don't tell me he can finish... when very obviously he still hasn't proved it...

Originally Posted by zZ[-_-]Zz

Kuyt had an abundance of chances to score but still hasn't scored yet... many times he was in the right place at the right time... so don't tell me he can finish... when very obviously he still hasn't proved it...

I don't think anyone here said Kuyt is a killer finisher ... if someone was praising him, that was for the other elements of his game

Originally Posted by zZ[-_-]Zz

Kuyt had an abundance of chances to score but still hasn't scored yet... many times he was in the right place at the right time... so don't tell me he can finish... when very obviously he still hasn't proved it...

I was thinking about his league goals (what other kind does he have ) but you're right, for some reason he's not taken chances in the CL.

Hopefully he's overdue and will make up for it next week

I didn't put him in the players I listed above because I couldn't really think of a specific skill that makes him a goal threat. He's a bit of an all rounder who holds the ball up well and brings others into play rather than doing it himself. He's a forward, but not a striker.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

I don't think anyone here said Kuyt is a killer finisher ... if someone was praising him, that was for the other elements of his game

please read the quotes below... try not to get lost in the discussion... we were clearly discussin' about his finishin' (or lack of)...

Originally Posted by redconn

If he get's a goal, it'll be because he's in the right place at the right time (which is a skill) and he can finish.

Originally Posted by redconn

I was thinking about his league goals (what other kind does he have ) but you're right, for some reason he's not taken chances in the CL.

Originally Posted by zZ[-_-]Zz

please read the quotes below... try not to get lost in the discussion... we were clearly discussin' about his finishin' (or lack of)...

I read his comments but if he gave Kuyt any special praise for something it was not his finishing ... saying that someone, who has scored tons of goals in Holland and 12 goals in a new team in a new league, can finish, is hardly a overstatement ... just about any decent striker is a good finisher ... it's not like he said Kuyt is a monster of goal poacher like Trez, Pippo, Crespo.
And should the Milan defense give Kuyt too much space, he may very well not need a second invitation.

Also, Rooney's CL record up until the Milan games was pathertic at best but he did score 2 good ones against us and if he didn't score more it was because his teammates were not up to the task.
My point is that just because a player has missed opportunities in the past, that doesn't mean he cannot finish or that he is not a good finisher altogether ... and that's even more applicable to Kuyt's situation given that he is not used as a targetman by Benitez and that means he gets far fewer chances at goal than most other typical forwards ... so, him not scoring 20+ goals/season isn't necessarily an indication of him being a bad striker or not being able to finish ... Eto'o for isntance scores a lot but the guy needs 4-5 excellent chances to score 1 of them, Kyut gets these 4-5 chances in 2-3 games.

Still, I think Kuyt's main contribution to the teams he's played in has always been his work ethic and participation in the build up ... that's quite something for someone who's scored as many goals as he has.

i've seen... read & heard all about his other elements in the game... work rate blah blah blah...

that's why i couldn't be bothered discussin' them... seen it... read about it... heard too much about it...

i was only interested about why he still couldn't score a single goal in the CL...

not about Rooney... Eto'o... or because he has missed chances but that doesn't mean he cannot finish... and all the other talk about bein' a targetman etc...

please don't go into one of your geography or logic lectures...