Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

@ Dru: Where would Quaresma play bro? Would you bench/loan Gourcuff? Just asking....

We would play:

--------Dida------------
-----Defence-----------
Gattuso--Pirlo--Ambrosini
---Kaka----Quaresma---
-------Ronaldo---------

Bench: GK, def, def, Brocchi, Gourcuff, Seedorf, Gilardino

With Quaresma either operating a free role or maybe even playing just off of Ronaldo, whatever Kaka wasn't doing basically

Next question

Just read that Alex is/was in England to get ready to complete his chelsea move for 1 dollar. do you think they're going to get rid of anyone to make room, or just keep them all?

Bolaruz ... Bholerooz ... That Dutch guy whose name i can't spell will almost certainly go

They got Ben Haim and, unfortunately, i think they'll get Alves as well If they do get him i expect Ferierra may also go.

I hear you Jim, but beg to point out that Quaresma doesnt tend to do half the work Clarence does, and I wouldnt pick him over Clarence, and neither would Carlo methinks...

He is a good player, dont get me wrong, but if I had to chose between an in-form Seedorf, and an in-form Quaresma for big games, the Dutchman has the starting place hands down....as a sub for Clarence though, then maybe, but certainly not over Gourcuff...

So, the next question (slightly rhetorical) is: Is he better than Clarence in your estimation?

bruise-a-loos already is on-loan to sevilla i believe...

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Admit you really hate the fact that we have a player like Kaka .

It's natural for a Juventino. But recently Real have been a circus and Milan have been a club who have done very well in Europe. Who can deny that Real's history is better? But I think Ancelotti was also referring to recent history, and, of course, the fact that Milan have more international trophies than Real (than anyone I think).

And Kaka was not THE only reason Milan won. Nesta was imperious, and Seedorf played his part too. Inzaghi scored a brace in the Final. Kaka was definitely our star man, but to say he won the CL single-handedly is a bit unfair.

That is all true, but look it it this way.

Milan was awful and a circus at the time when Real was winning trophies.

Real :
1998 - CL winners
1999 - QF
2000 - CL winners
2001 - SF
2002 - CL winners
2003 - SF

Now Hasan, this beats even Milan's record in last 5 years. After 2003 the results were awful because, as you say, they became a circus. But why were they a circus ? Too much ego maybe ? Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham, Roberto Carlos !

But now a new president took over, all the olidies, great stars with huge ego, are not in Real anymore, and the result came immediately. The league was won.

What's with Milan then ? 5 great years ( still worse than Real's golden age from 1998-2002,03)
No one can say that Milan's great cycle is over but history teaches us that when you reach the top you can only go down from there.

That's what i'm saying. We judge Real for the time of their previous president and we expect them to do bad again while we (actually, You) count only Milan's recent history to prove a point.

What i want to happen with Kaka has nothing to do with my opinion. I don't want him in Milan but it never stopped me from saying that i believe he'll stay in Milan at least for 2 more years and that he'll feel in Milan better than in Real.

But i can't agree with anyone who'll say that he'll win in Milan more than what he'll win in Real. That is my initial reason why i "attacked" Ancelotti for the weigh of the trophies argument.


P.S : As for the international trophies won. I think you got fooled by the info that Milan is the team with most international trophies won in the world.
It is true, i know, but there is a difference from trophy and trophy.

CL :
Real 9 - Milan 7

UEFA Cup :
Real 2 - Milan 0

Cup winner's Cup :
Real 0 - Milan 2

Intercontinental Cup :
Milan 3 - Real 3

European Super Cup
Milan 4 - Real 1

Milan has 1 trophy more than Real and it's only due to the European Super Cup ( 1 match played to win the Cup, against a team that won much weaker tournament than the CL)

Comparing overall trophies, Real is much better, though.

Domestic tittles ( leagues, coppas, super coppas)
Real 57 - Milan 27

International tittles :
Real 15 - Milan 16

Overall :
Real 72 - Milan 43

Having this in mind, i'd say Real's trophies weigh much more than Milan's.

Fair points Tony29.

I will say that our management does have a system in place that allowed us to enjoy great success in Europe in the last 20 years.

Not many clubs can claim success like that for that long a period of time.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

Regarding domestic perfomances, let's not go there 'cause unlike Milan, Real didn't have to play in a doctored league where the real winners are only an assumption in the eye of the beholder ... so, we can't really say what Milan could/would/should have won or not

You guys really like to mention this when , in fact, you should avoid talking about this.

In this doctored league Milan won 5 scudetti in last 15 years. The same as Juve and much more than anyone else so , as Kui used to say when he was around, it makes you wonder who were the ones who doctored the league and if Juve were the only ones who were doing it, then how come they allowed Milan to win so much ?

We have proves that one single season was doctored and that's it. If there were more irregularities than i'm sure we would have heard about it, don't you think ? That's why you don't have an argument about the domestic trophies. They are as they are and period.

Hmmm...seems like our Juventino friend is having a little Milan-hate-athon...

Dont be so sad Tony, one day, Juve will win the UCL again, so you can maybe join in on discussions about trophies, and who has won more of what, especially when we are talking about "all-competitions"...even if you may have to actually win it more than the once or twice you guys actually did win it....

Oh and Zlat, Milan did win a lot but it was also in two periods. The Sacchi/Capello and the Ancelotti period.

Between them were 7 awful/very bad/ bad years.
We can't be sure at all that a similar dry period will follow immediately but as it happened always, with every single great team in the world, this period will come for Milan. Maybe and probably not this year, but after 2 or 3 years it will happen.
And then ........... i don't know, the guys who run Milan are pretty old, don't you think ? You think their successors will be as successful and Kaka has a guaranteed success at Milan in the rest 7 years of his career ?

omg its so boring u write 2 pages about one carlo's sentence? He just meant its nice to be a part of milan since u can pick up soap under shower anytime without fear... and since kaka is a kind of a holy virgin boy lets spare him for a couple of seasons, shall we?

i would bet real will s-ck this season too in CL

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Hmmm...seems like our Juventino friend is having a little Milan-hate-athon...

I am not, but some of you simply can't accept a critic. In my time here i provided so much info about Milan's history and present and i was always praising Milan when there was a reason. If you accept the praise you will have to accept the critic, even if the critic is not actually a critic but stats from the history books ( with history , in this case, being everything that happened before today)

If you didn't see it , i wasn't comparing Milan to Juve but to Real. And there is absolutely no need for me to prove that Real is more successful than Milan if i don't mean it. I thought what Ancelotti said was not correct and i said it.

You know, in the last year i always (ALWAYS) defended Galliani, Gilardino, Ancelotti when i thought they were attacked for no reason. And there are times when i criticize them. (eventhough, never as much as 99% of the members here)
But there are 3 or 4 old members (very good man and great contributers here, tbh) who have problems seeing the bad things in Milan.
I refuse to keep quiet and not mention these things only because these members won't like to hear it !

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Hmmm...seems like our Juventino friend is having a little Milan-hate-athon...

Dont be so sad Tony, one day, Juve will win the UCL again, so you can maybe join in on discussions about trophies, and who has won more of what, especially when we are talking about "all-competitions"...even if you may have to actually win it more than the once or twice you guys actually did win it....

Now now...what was that about pride coming before a fall?

He brings up good points, even though Milan should hold a workshop on winning the CL for Juventus.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

He brings up good points, even though Milan should hold a workshop on winning the CL for Juventus.

nice one mate!!!!!

Lighten-up Tony, I was just kidding...facts are facts, and trophies represent a "factual" accomplishment, even if (as in the case with Inter´s UCL trophy) they were bought and paid for....

That being said, we continue to look forward to your contributions, as they are (almost) always insightful, and spark good, strong debate.

Carlo´s response was a witty one, even if based on nothing really except that the La Liga title isnt (as far as he seems to be concerned) as prestegious as the UCL title...which is what I think he was referring to...(even if the La Liga trophy itself weighs more than the UCL trophy )

No one is asking you to be quiet...that contravenes the purpose of a forum now doesnt it?

Relax bro...its not that serious...dont be so sensitive.