Dida

Tony...while I sit in my office and ponder the inches of rain falling on Jamaica, I can only wonder if you are involved in some similar idle pursuit why getting feedback from mzk requires not one, but two posts?

It seems you must be VERY idle.

But, back to the "current" topic...while I think the ban re Dida was probably fair, IMO, a one match ban would be more in tandem with the punishment given Celtic...for a two match ban, then the fine and one match behind closed doors would for me, make it much more equitable.

UEFA (while trying stringently here to avoid sounding as if I have a "Milan persecution complex") seems to be giving us more stick than Celtic, when their fan invading the pitch was the root cause of all this nonsense.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

I've changed my opinion completely and you ain't gonna like it

I still think Celtic got away with a light punishment, but banning them to play in empty stadium, or banning them with deducted points would have been too much.

The club will have to take reponsibilities if missiles or similar stuff are thrown on the pitch. The club will have to take responsibilities if number of fans enter the pitch and the security does nothing.
But i really don't see a logic in punishing Celtic harshly because of that man running over the field.
Look at Celtic park :
http://hoopsinparis.blog.lemonde.fr/...ka_benfica.jpg

Now, seriously, how can anyone be sure and make sure that at least one idiot who sits in the first row won't jump over the advertisments and try to touch some player ?
England has very strickt laws, but how can the country or the team make sure that some imbecile won't do what the guy in Celtic-Milan did ?
If he has some kind of weapon with him then i understand if the club is punished, but this way i'm not sure if this act deserves a harsh punishment.
How can they be sure that some Glasgow Rangers fan, dressed in Celtic colours, with an IQ below 50 won't jump over the advertisment and try to kick an opponents player ?

Your thoughts ?

You cannot prevent that, I absolutely agree; and whether they want fans to be closer, that's fine. But here comes the responsibility:

If you do have idiots like that, then the question is how the heck it happens when no one was chasing after the idiot, warning Dida, or any other player.

On a more moral note, the implication of the incident is just plain ridiculous. Ok, simulation is heavily punished; that's fine. but one-man invasion is not.

So now what? If we are in Man U stadium and a guy did the same thing to, say, Roma's GK, just fine and nothing else?

And if I remember correctyl, there are securities standing in front of the specs. I wonder how the IQ=50 actually went onto the pitch!

Anyway, I think it's just different opinion. And I guess we both agree that Celtic deserves a heavier punishment.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

UEFA (while trying stringently here to avoid sounding as if I have a "Milan persecution complex") seems to be giving us more stick than Celtic, when their fan invading the pitch was the root cause of all this nonsense.

Heck, because Milan is G14!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Paolo3

You’re right in one thing, I don’t like it

A man running over the field is a serious warning, and should be treated like that, if a man can run over the field like the Glasgow idiot did it means that he could really have hurt someone, the point is no one should be able to get into the field, and they should avoid it at any cost. This is why many bad things happen, by ignoring the warnings, and that’s why UEFA role was so important, they had to set a precedent here, now any moron would jump in thinking that his club can afford a fine and that will not be any hard consequences from his act.

But i'm stupid rich and crazy and i'm prepared to spend the next 5 years in jail. And i hate Arsenal.
I bought a ticket for Arsenal-Inter, a payed enough to sit next to the pitch, i jump over the advertisments and i slap Zanetti.
Why should Arsenal be punished ?
Because there wasn't enough security ? You've seen their stadiums and how the crowd is next to the pitch. You can't even put a security guard between the crowd and the pitch because he'll block their view.

So, even if they set a precedent here, there was 0% guarantee that it won't happen again on the next match.

Originally Posted by Paolo3

Now, on the stadiums, it’s really their problem, if they want to keep that proximity feeling for the fans then they must do better on making sure nobody can’t jump in, if they can’t do that they must to put a fence between them and the field, they must to figure out a way to make their stadium safer.

UEFA must make this a rule. Until they make it a rule the teams are not guilty, imo.
I absolutely agree that the team must make sure that no weapons, flares and similar stuff is smuggled. They must make sure that they won't allow a bigger number of people from the stands to enter the pitch. But they can't possibly stop an individual to enter the pitch.
I mean, just look at the photo above in my previous post. Each one of us (if we sit at the place of the lady, third from right) can jump over and touch Celtic's player with number 2.
How on earth can the club stop that from happening ? And why should the club Celtic get a tough punishment if that happens ?
If UEFA orders the British teams to put a fence between the pitch and the stands, then ok. This way the clubs should be punished because with the fence the security has enough time to stop someone from jumping over it. But as things stand now, teams are helpless to stop an individual from doing what the man in Celtic-Milan did.

I've just read a little about the verdict and it seems Celtic only pay half of £25,000 fine now, with the rest being paid in 2 years IF another similar incident occurs. If so that's just ridiculous. I'm not too bothered about Dida's punishment, but Celtic's is a farce.

Btw, i'm certainly not saying that what happened is ok. It's disguisting actually.

But UEFA should be blamed for this much more than Celtic. And it could be that they were protecting themselves more than they were protecting Celtic.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I've just read a little about the verdict and it seems Celtic only pay half of £25,000 fine now, with the rest being paid in 2 years IF another similar incident occurs. If so that's just ridiculous. I'm not too bothered about Dida's punishment, but Celtic's is a farce.

It's just absolutely lame; but you can say that Celtic is a small club and Milan is a big club and they must set an image. Which is true.

What pisses me off is that the Celtic officials are delighted with the decision. *LOL*... I'm just entirely shocked that they act as if the fan's act is a justifying one.

Anyway... this case is over. Milan's appeal is not going to work out, and Dida is going to sit out for two games.

I still don't understand the entire logic behind, but I guess you'll need to laern what's unfairness sometimes.

To that, I'll just tell UEFA to go to hell.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Btw, i'm certainly not saying that what happened is ok. It's disguisting actually.

But UEFA should be blamed for this much more than Celtic. And it could be that they were protecting themselves more than they were protecting Celtic.

Can I edit this to "protecting themselves ... and virtually hurting Celtic"?

At the end of the day, it wont, or rather, shouldnt matter much...Celtic will finish dead-last in the group, if there is ANYTHING called "justice" in the universe, and not even get a UEFA Cup spot....(Though Benfica seems to be set on that 4th spot)

Then, to stretch it a bit, they wont win the Scottish league either, by virtue of 4 straight "derby" losses to Rangers

Originally Posted by Tony29.

But i'm stupid rich and crazy and i'm prepared to spend the next 5 years in jail. And i hate Arsenal.
I bought a ticket for Arsenal-Inter, a payed enough to sit next to the pitch, i jump over the advertisments and i slap Zanetti.
Why should Arsenal be punished ?
Because there wasn't enough security ? You've seen their stadiums and how the crowd is next to the pitch. You can't even put a security guard between the crowd and the pitch because he'll block their view.

So, even if they set a precedent here, there was 0% guarantee that it won't happen again on the next match.



UEFA must make this a rule. Until they make it a rule the teams are not guilty, imo.
I absolutely agree that the team must make sure that no weapons, flares and similar stuff is smuggled. They must make sure that they won't allow a bigger number of people from the stands to enter the pitch. But they can't possibly stop an individual to enter the pitch.
I mean, just look at the photo above in my previous post. Each one of us (if we sit at the place of the lady, third from right) can jump over and touch Celtic's player with number 2.
How on earth can the club stop that from happening ? And why should the club Celtic get a tough punishment if that happens ?
If UEFA orders the British teams to put a fence between the pitch and the stands, then ok. This way the clubs should be punished because with the fence the security has enough time to stop someone from jumping over it. But as things stand now, teams are helpless to stop an individual from doing what the man in Celtic-Milan did.

Because the club is the organizer of the event, that’s why they are the ones who must to be punished, who else if not them? No one? According with UEFA that’s just fine.

You’re right when you say that there are not guarantee that the incident doesn’t repeat only by giving them a harsh punishment, but when do you think the club would get more seriously about security, when they got a 25,000 euros fine or when they get a 2 match ban?

To that, I'll just tell UEFA to go to hell.[/quote]

Amen to that.

AC Milan's goalkeeper Dida has been suspended for two UEFA club competition matches by UEFA's Control and Disciplinary Body following events at last week's UEFA Champions League Group D game between Celtic FC and Milan in Glasgow.

Principles of conduct
The proceedings had been instigated on the basis of Article 5, paragraph 1 of the UEFA disciplinary regulations (Principles of conduct), under which "member associations, clubs, as well as their players, officials and members, shall conduct themselves according to the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship". No disciplinary action has been taken against Milan.

Celtic fine
Celtic, meanwhile, have been fined €35,760 (CHF60,000) after being found guilty of a lack of organisation and improper conduct by supporters at the match (Articles 6 and 11c of the UEFA disciplinary regulations). Half of this amount is deferred for a probational period of two years. This means that Celtic pay a €17,847 fine now, and if a similar offence is committed over the next two years, the other half will be added on for the new infringement.

Appeal deadline
Appeals may be lodged within three days of the sending of the reasoned decision. Celtic won the game 2-1 on 3 October.

Rae just wrote a column in soccernet.com ( i pust it in the column thread);

Anyway, I'll just reinstate what Ithink:

1) If Dida simulated and someone came on to hit it in his face, then Celtic should not even be punished.

2) If a fan came in and provocated the simulation, then I'm not sure why Celtic can escape a heavier punishment.

To me, who instigates the matter is the culprit. Unfortunately, this is not written in the rule ;(

You know what's really incredible?

About 24 hours before the Dida verdict, UEFA let Juninho walk for his blatant dive against Rangers last week.

Talk about complete and utter hypocrisy.

I have just read on ESPNCoccernet.com and found this :

quote:
President of the Affiliation of Celtic Supporters Clubs, Peter Rafferty, welcomed UEFA's decision.

Rafferty said: 'I am delighted. As far as Celtic football club and the fans are concerned it's a fantastic decision.
'There are always some rumours when these committees get together and one strong one was that the fine could be heavy and another was there could be the closure of the ground. That would have been a disaster for the club and the fans.

'But the decision was as good as we could have expected. As far as Dida is concerned, UEFA must see that as justice being done and that is a problem for AC Milan.

'I'm just delighted with the decision on Celtic.' Celtic legend Frank McGarvey was pleased that his former club were treated leniently. In 1984, McGarvey was in the Celtic side who were ordered by UEFA to re-stage the second leg of a European Cup Winners' Cup tie against Rapid Vienna at least 100 miles from Parkhead after a bottle had been launched at Rudolf Weinhofer, who fell to the ground despite the missile landing several feet away.

He said: 'UEFA have got it spot-on with a small fine and I thought that would happen. I'm delighted for Celtic and it was the conduct of Celtic fans over the years which has led to the leniency of the fine.

'UEFA have also sent out a message to the cheats at last and that message is that cheats can't win.

'Everybody is laughing at the `keeper. The fan shouldn't have gone on the park but he didn't do anything.'

unquote.

IMO there are several options could be taken when Milan's lawyer Cantamesa appeal to UEFA :

1. Tell UEFA and special note to Platini that Milan may have played 11 players without a keeper on December 4th when hosting Celtic in San Siro.

2. On December 4th at San Siro...when Celtic team enter the stadium and lining up....Milan could send a fan to enter the stadium and give a "very soft slap" to the Celtic GK's cheek and then ran away back to the stand (or maybe better to slap Platini if he attend the match??). And for this...Milan shall have no objection to be fined for BP25,000 and no other punishment like what Celtic got in Dida's case.

Is this what UEFA mean with their "HEAVY PUNISHMENT" to Milan??
I shall be very happy to donate some $1,000 to Milan for paying the fine if they want to do the #2 option above.

I hope that on December 4th..the entire San Siro crowd would boo Celtic team as loud as it could be as a WARM WELCOME !!!!