Summer Mercato

Originally Posted by forward

If everything is so crappy, how did Juve and Inter manage to have such an active transfer season?

Did they bring players that also being wanted by big spaniard clubs for example?

Yeah, both Inter and Juve didn't bring a star and they were chanceless against the Spaniards and the English.

I mean, who did Juve buy ? Almiron, Tiago, Iaquinta, Nocerino, Molinaro, Criscito, Andrade. Are these attractive players wanted by the other giants in Europe ?
Inter bought players from Italy. Suazo and Chivu and they bought some guys called Rivas and Pele.

If you think about it, Milan were the ones who had better mercato than both Juve and Inter because you bought the most expensive and most talented player, Pato. Only Milan spent +20m euro for a player last summer.

Since i'm active in various forums i noticed that Milan fans complain about poor mercato and use Inter and Juve as examples for good mercato. Juve fans complain about their mercato and say how Milan made a great buy and had great mercato with Pato.
Inter fans probably do smthg similar themselves.

Go figure

I refuse to believe that Italian tax system is the source of our problem. Before Calciopolo when Serie A was the most prestigious in the world, Juve and Milan were able to get all the players they wanted and I mean the best players.
I furthermore doubt that Berlusconi lost a penny on this club. With the huge fan base of AC Milan and astronomical revenues buying even two worldclass players each transfer season shouldn't be a problem.

It's an excuse for their failed, or rather not trying attempts to get great players for Milan. They are lying about going for Henry etc. Just a smokescreen so they can penny pinch again, and get some donkey nobody else wants. In spite of their dealings we are competitive in Europe, because of their dealings we are miles from the pace in Italy.

Fiorentina is taking a lead by a goal against Catania right now.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Hmm...I read that footballers pay 40-43% tax in England.

It may have been an incorrect article, but many in the Prem were complaining about Spain's advantage.

I dont know if it is different for footballers or not in England but standard tax in the uk is 17.5% thats what we all pay on purchases in shops etc

Originally Posted by Kaka1899

I dont know if it is different for footballers or not in England but standard tax in the uk is 17.5% thats what we all pay on purchases in shops etc

I think what you meant was a different type of tax (consumption tax). Gio and others are talking about income Tax.
====== quoted from http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Work/Employment.htm
INCOME TAX

If you work in the UK, you will have to pay income tax. This tax is collected by the government department known as HM Revenue & Customs (previously known as the Inland Revenue). Tax is paid based on your income during the tax year, which starts on April 6th and ends on April 5th in the following year.

In the 2007/8 tax year (for income earned between April 6th 2007 and April 5th 2008), the income tax bands were as follows:
0% on the first £5,225 (your personal allowance, equivalent to about £100 per week, or £435 per month)
(you will not be entitled to the full allowance if you have not been resident in the UK during the whole tax year)
10% (the lower rate) on the next £2,230 (equivalent to about £42 per week, or £185 per month)
22% (the basic rate) on the next £32,370 (equivalent to about £622 per week, or £2,700 per month)
40% (the higher rate) on any income above this

Let's assume taxes in Spain are 25% and in Italy 50%. In few words, the fiscal pressure is the double.

If Drogna wants to earn 6 millions net either in a club in Spain or in Italy, this means the italian side has to spend 12 millions gross and the spanish side 9 millions. The spanish side saves 3 millions to give Drogba the same net wage.

This is a big problem. I think UE should take care of this problem, imposing a common fiscal pressure for clubs who take part to international sportive competitions.

Originally Posted by e-Milan

I think what you meant was a different type of tax (consumption tax). Gio and others are talking about income Tax.
====== quoted from http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Work/Employment.htm
INCOME TAX

If you work in the UK, you will have to pay income tax. This tax is collected by the government department known as HM Revenue & Customs (previously known as the Inland Revenue). Tax is paid based on your income during the tax year, which starts on April 6th and ends on April 5th in the following year.

In the 2007/8 tax year (for income earned between April 6th 2007 and April 5th 2008), the income tax bands were as follows:
0% on the first £5,225 (your personal allowance, equivalent to about £100 per week, or £435 per month)
(you will not be entitled to the full allowance if you have not been resident in the UK during the whole tax year)
10% (the lower rate) on the next £2,230 (equivalent to about £42 per week, or £185 per month)
22% (the basic rate) on the next £32,370 (equivalent to about £622 per week, or £2,700 per month)
40% (the higher rate) on any income above this

ah right now i get it

and btw i live in the uk so i knew that about Inland revenue ect

Originally Posted by Giovanni

Let's assume taxes in Spain are 25% and in Italy 50%. In few words, the fiscal pressure is the double.

If Drogna wants to earn 6 millions net either in a club in Spain or in Italy, this means the italian side has to spend 12 millions gross and the spanish side 9 millions. The spanish side saves 3 millions to give Drogba the same net wage.

This is a big problem. I think UE should take care of this problem, imposing a common fiscal pressure for clubs who take part to international sportive competitions.

Assuming the taxes is 25% in Spain, I think spanish clubs need only to pay 8 mil.

If Drogba wants 6 mil and the tax is 25%, this means 75% from the total wages (gross wages) will go to Drogba. 75% (= 3/4) x total wages = 6 mil, so total wages = 6 x 4/3 = 8 mil. As we've talked before, the amount of money that italian clubs must pay to Drogba = 12 mil.
The difference between the amount of money that the italian clubs and spanish ones have to pay to Drogba = 12 - 8 = 4 mil. CMIIW

4 mil difference is huge advantage for spanish clubs.

EDIT :

no wonder Barca and Madrid could spend so much money to bring players. Last year Barca brought Abidal, Milito, Henry and we dont need to look at Madrid, they are 'crazy'.

I just think about this : a player costs 30 mil euro (market cost) with wages 6 mil nett to this player (just like Drogba for example). NOrmally a club give contract to a player for 4-5 years. Assume a club give only 4 years. Which means, (from our discussion before), a spanish club must spend 32 mil euro (4 x 8) for this player's contract (75% of this money goes to the player = 24 mil), meanwhile an italian club must spend 48 mil euros (4 x 12) with 50% of this 48 mil goes to the player (= 24 mil). The diffrence for the contracts will be 48-32 = 16 mil euros.

So, I think, it's pretty easy for spanish clubs to give, let say, 5 mil euros more than italian clubs can pay for the transfer fee as spanish clubs need to pay less than the italian ones for the contract. If the italian club want to pay 30 mil to buy this player , spanish club can pay pretty easily 35 mil (transfer fee) for the same player.

Just my thought.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Assuming the taxes is 25% in Spain, I think spanish clubs need only to pay 8 mil.

If Drogba wants 6 mil and the tax is 25%, this means 75% from the total wages (gross wages) will go to Drogba. 75% (= 3/4) x total wages = 6 mil, so total wages = 6 x 4/3 = 8 mil. As we've talked before, the amount of money that italian clubs must pay to Drogba = 12 mil.
The difference between the amount of money that the italian clubs and spanish ones have to pay to Drogba = 12 - 8 = 4 mil. CMIIW

4 mil difference is huge advantage for spanish clubs.

How much is the 25% of 12 millions (12/4)? It is 3 millions. Assuming the net wage is 6 millions, the total sum (if the taxes are 25%) is 9 millions.
Once again, taxes should be counted on the total, not starting from the net sum.

If the total 9 mil, the taxes (25%) will be 25% x 9 mil = 2, 25 mil. This means, Drogba will earn 6,75 mil euros nett (9mil - 2,25 mil).

The way of I am thinking is from the nett wage/money. Drogba wants 6 mil (nett wage) and the taxes is 25%. It means, Drogba's nett wage = total money - 25% of total money (= 75% of total money). Assume Drogba's nett wage is A and the total money is B then A = 75% B or 6 mil = 3/4 B. Then B = 4/3 times 6 mil = 8 mil. So the total money will be 8 mil euros.

If total 8 mil, 25 percent of 8 mil = 2 mil (taxes), 75 percent of 8 mil = 6 mil euro (net wages/what Drogba earns).

Ah yeah, I just thought again about club's wages. Assuming Milan have 25 players with average wage is 3 mil euros per year then the wages of all players are 75 million euros. Assuming Barca have the same situation (the average wage and the number of the players). Here I still talk about nett wages (the wages that the players earn).

So, every year Milan need to spend 150 mil euros for all players. 50% of this number goes to taxes (= 75 mil euros), the other 50% goes to players (= 75 mil euros). In the other hand, Barca only need to pay 100 mil euros a year for all their players. 25% of this amount goes to taxes (= 25 mil euro), the rest (75%) goes to players ( = 75 mil euros).

So, Barca spend 50 mil euros less than Milan every year. It means Barca can use 50% for the transfer. 50 mil euros means a world class player.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Ah yeah, I just thought again about club's wages. Assuming Milan have 25 players with average wage is 3 mil euros per year then the wages of all players are 75 million euros. Assuming Barca have the same situation (the average wage and the number of the players). Here I still talk about nett wages (the wages that the players earn).

So, every year Milan need to spend 150 mil euros for all players. 50% of this number goes to taxes (= 75 mil euros), the other 50% goes to players (= 75 mil euros). In the other hand, Barca only need to pay 100 mil euros a year for all their players. 25% of this amount goes to taxes (= 25 mil euro), the rest (75%) goes to players ( = 75 mil euros).

So, Barca spend 50 mil euros less than Milan every year. It means Barca can use 50% for the transfer. 50 mil euros means a world class player.

IMO it's unfair competition and UE should correct it. Football clubs are not only sportive associations, but also firms which operate in business. The economic rules shoudl apply to football clubs as well.
Firms can't compete unfairly. The same can be said for football clubs.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Yeah, both Inter and Juve didn't bring a star and they were chanceless against the Spaniards and the English.

I mean, who did Juve buy ? Almiron, Tiago, Iaquinta, Nocerino, Molinaro, Criscito, Andrade. Are these attractive players wanted by the other giants in Europe ?
Inter bought players from Italy. Suazo and Chivu and they bought some guys called Rivas and Pele.

If you think about it, Milan were the ones who had better mercato than both Juve and Inter because you bought the most expensive and most talented player, Pato. Only Milan spent +20m euro for a player last summer.

Since i'm active in various forums i noticed that Milan fans complain about poor mercato and use Inter and Juve as examples for good mercato. Juve fans complain about their mercato and say how Milan made a great buy and had great mercato with Pato.
Inter fans probably do smthg similar themselves.

Go figure

haha, Im sure all milan fans are happy about Pato's transfer, but unhappy that Pato was ONLY normal transfer in the...since Sheva left us!

We havent bought any players, except for Oddo who is an ok player, but is not a world class palyer like Milan needs and used to have in Cafu. Emerson, Oliveira, Gourcuff (failed) , Amoroso, Favalli, Ronaldo, Vieri...you see the point.

Milan simply needs some players, somewhere around number 5 its not that we dont have any money, dont worry about money people, we have plenty trust me.

Berlusconi had a plan and he went into a ciclus with this squad being only filled in by some players now and then. The ciclus begin with Milan bringing Carlo, Nesta, Seedorf, Pirlo, Rui, Inzaghi, Rivaldo...then Cafu, Stam and Crespo...

now we are in the end of these players possibilities on the field, its obvious. Players like Sergio, Favalli, Maldini, Cafu, Brocchi, Dida, Gila ( for some reason ), are not the ones who should be playing for Milan any more. In every game, except for CL nights when we field our strongesl lineup, we have one, two or three players not up to task. Whether its Favalli on the left, Cafu on the right, Brocchi, Gila, injured Pippo, imobile Rooni, unfit Seedorf or horrible Dida. That is too much for a long serie a season.

Squad consists of 22-25 players, from which at least 15-18 need to be top quality. This team needs few great players and we will be back. But if we dont start the new ciclus we wil only go down.

Our midfield has some of the best players on earth in Pirlo, Ambro, Rino, Kaka' and Clarence. But they get exausted, specially Kaka' and Clarence. Its becouse other parts of the team cant take the game on them ( fullbacks, forwards ). We need a great and powerfull player like Toni, Drogba to solve games, we need great fullback, at least one. New GK, and a fast midfielder to rotate and so to use Seedorf in smaller amount of games.

this was supposed to be short but...
dreams, you know how it is
------------frey----------
-alves--nesta-kaladze-zambrotta--
----------pirlo------
----gattuso--ambro---
---------kaka'----
----pato---drogba----

now we can use both Rino and Ambro at the same time, too bad in my dreams Carlo isnt a coach to use them as he likes to