Arsenal-Milan CL Round of 16 Leg 1

I can sum it up on Arsenal saying that if we must to go out with a club, surely going out with your team wouldn't be considered a disgrace or a big failure.

We can't win every year and you have all the credentials to achieve glory. But we'll fight as hard as dead men walking are likely to do, given that our biggest target is giving Paolo Maldini a proper final to salute the fans and quit an already legendary career.

Originally Posted by cescvanpersie

Can we stop using Pato's age in every argument please??
It's quite easy for me to just say Fabregas is the best seeing as he is only 20 and is already very dominant.

dude, what's your problem? first of all the guys were discussing Pato in comparison to the other team member in AC Milan, we weren't even speaking about Arsenal. second, the point they were trying to make that Pato is still to young to judge how good of a player he is.. he needs a couple of years before we know if he is world class or just an average striker..
finallyl, this is AC Milan related forum and you don't have to change the topic to Arsenal all the time

Originally Posted by forward

dude, what's your problem? first of all the guys were discussing Pato in comparison to the other team member in AC Milan, we weren't even speaking about Arsenal. second, the point they were trying to make that Pato is still to young to judge how good of a player he is.. he needs a couple of years before we know if he is world class or just an average striker..
finallyl, this is AC Milan related forum and you don't have to change the topic to Arsenal all the time

Correct me if i'm wrong but this is the AC Milan AND Arsenal thread?
Have you seen me post anywhere else on this forum??
Jeff i'm not hyping up Arsenal...i wasn't even talking about Arsenal.
Ok Pato is a world class player, he is the best and can rip defences apart, best striker i've seen in a long time. ok?
For the person who said that Fabregas was gradually eased into the team, i think you'll find that's wrong seeing as he was basically chucked into the team after Vieira left.
And if Pato is too young to judge, why do other people judge Fabregas??
I'm not saying you lot do...just stating an example where people don't necessarily take age into consideration.

Arsenal played that many long balls and crosses simply because they were made to. You passed the ball around with speed and it is impressive but it didn't lead you anywhere productive. The ball was constantly pushed wide by Gattuso and Ambrosini and forcing you to play with crosses and long balls. I read a lot of stuff how Arsenal did this and that. And yes, when you look at the game from far away it did look that way, but if we analyze it a bit, there was only one or two TRUE chances for you guys and everything else was either a saving tackle by our players or a shot from 25 meters. This is what we went to do in England and that is exactly what we did. That was the game plan all along, and that is why Pato started and not Gila/Inzaghi. Simply because we were going to defend and try to use pato/kaka speed to counter if possible. So all this talk about Arsenal being unlucky, I don't get it. You were only unlucky on ONE occasion when Adebayor hit the bar. Everything else was not unlucky but it was good defending.

How do we plan on beating you? I gues we have to ask Carlo, but my prediction is that we'll play similar to what we did in England. Things will be very very tight in the middle and I don't expect Gattuso, Ambro and Pirlo to go forward much. What we will see however is Oddo and Jankulovski/Maldini push up a lot more. I also don't expect us to just lounch the ball forward like we did in England, but a lot more patient build up with the fullbacks pushing up and pulling ur midfield wide which will ease up the pressure on Pirlo. Don't expect an open Milan. I think things will be even tighter as Carlo knows that we can not allow you to score as for every goal you score we need to score one more then you.

Originally Posted by cescvanpersie

Ok Pato is a world class player, he is the best and can rip defences apart, best striker i've seen in a long time

No one said that. We just said that he is fantastic for his age because the things he does right now even very promising 20-23 year olds can't get done well.

Originally Posted by cescvanpersie

For the person who said that Fabregas was gradually eased into the team, i think you'll find that's wrong seeing as he was basically chucked into the team after Vieira left

Wrong again.....Cesc is 20 now......and we're in 08....Vieria left for Juve at the start of the '05-06 season. This means he had at leat one year playing with him since he started playing for Arsenal at 16

Originally Posted by cescvanpersie

And if Pato is too young to judge, why do other people judge Fabregas??
I'm not saying you lot do...just stating an example where people don't necessarily take age into consideration.

Fabregas is 20 and has been at Arsenal for the better part of FOUR years. Pato just turned 18 and played less than ten professional games in total for Milan. Fabregas has been born and bred into European football. Pato has had 6 months to learn it. If you don't think that age, or at least experience has anything to do with the discussion then we're probably better off ending it here and now. Age is ALWAYS a factor in comparisons of these types simply because it is perhaps the best indicator of a player's potential or room for improvement. Why didn't Wenger cry when left.....it was because at Vieria's age he had already seen the best of him and Fabregas was nearly at Vieria's present level while still only a teenager.

Similarly at his age Pato is ALREADY on the level of most senior strikers and above many too. This is why Milan fans are raving over him....not for who he is now but for who he can become....I thought this was obvious

Originally Posted by outlaw_member

So how do you plan on beating us?

I think you have already gotten answers from other fellows.

I guess it'll be again 4-3-2-1 with Pato in front, but do expect 4-3-1-2 if Arsenal scored one goal.

If Milan is to start with 4-3-1-2 at the beginning, it's because Milan wants to impose from the first minute. It really is up to Carlo.

J

Originally Posted by nefremo

Arsenal played that many long balls and crosses simply because they were made to. You passed the ball around with speed and it is impressive but it didn't lead you anywhere productive. The ball was constantly pushed wide by Gattuso and Ambrosini and forcing you to play with crosses and long balls. I read a lot of stuff how Arsenal did this and that. And yes, when you look at the game from far away it did look that way, but if we analyze it a bit, there was only one or two TRUE chances for you guys and everything else was either a saving tackle by our players or a shot from 25 meters. This is what we went to do in England and that is exactly what we did. That was the game plan all along, and that is why Pato started and not Gila/Inzaghi. Simply because we were going to defend and try to use pato/kaka speed to counter if possible. So all this talk about Arsenal being unlucky, I don't get it. You were only unlucky on ONE occasion when Adebayor hit the bar. Everything else was not unlucky but it was good defending.

How do we plan on beating you? I gues we have to ask Carlo, but my prediction is that we'll play similar to what we did in England. Things will be very very tight in the middle and I don't expect Gattuso, Ambro and Pirlo to go forward much. What we will see however is Oddo and Jankulovski/Maldini push up a lot more. I also don't expect us to just lounch the ball forward like we did in England, but a lot more patient build up with the fullbacks pushing up and pulling ur midfield wide which will ease up the pressure on Pirlo. Don't expect an open Milan. I think things will be even tighter as Carlo knows that we can not allow you to score as for every goal you score we need to score one more then you.

As much as you might want to think this, I honestly do not think it was your tactics that caused us to play those balls. Maybe to an extent but that's all. We were eager but also overrawed playing against you. You are the champions and our players were no doubt nervous as every attack needs to count and because of this the players were expecting alot from Ade as he is the man in form, even though he was never going to do much alone. How many times did Cesc play a long raking ball from the middle of the park or the defenders from deep like Clichy, there is no way Ambrosini or Gattuso were far enough up the pitch for being the reason as to why our players were launching it. Selective crosses have worked especially well this season, so the players knowing this, were not being selective but were forcing it. Try and think how many times you saw Ade and a couple of your defenders chasing balls, whilst the rest of the players were far far away. It happened all night, and it was down to our players making the wrong choices and expecting Ade to do the damage alone. It was inexperience and naivety that caused this. We are far more patient and probing, everytime single time Sagna got the ball he crossed, same with Clichy, but if you watch other Arsenal games, you will see how they would both get in crossing positions but than turn back and recycle the ball. I don't think Ambrosini and Gattuso were able to handle our pace and movement. Neither had any impact on the game. Your defenders were superb, they made superb last timed tackles but I wouldn't praise anyone else from your team on the night. Lastly, those who are saying that Kaka and Pato and others just came back from injury, is very well but I would just like to point out that 4 days before we played you, we had 12 players with injuries or knocks. 12, not to forget Sagna's brother died over the weekend.

Regarding the debate about Pato, all I have to say is I am jealous that we don't have him. The guy is out of this world. He is young and will become superb. Just one last thing, you couldn't give us Gourcuff could you, I mean you don't use him anyway. (Big smile)

I'd like to point out that Pato has played his 7th official game with Milan after joining the club. Does a player need a bit of time to gel with new team and new type of football?

The understanding with Kakà and Pirlo is still work in progress.

Originally Posted by cescvanpersie

Correct me if i'm wrong but this is the AC Milan AND Arsenal thread?
Have you seen me post anywhere else on this forum??

totally missed my point... oh well...

What a lot of the Arsenal fans are forgetting is that as a person ages, the recovery time from injury is greater...and if our players on average are older than the Arsenal players, then the recovery period will be that much greater.

All in all, for a bunch of old, broken down old fogeys, we didnt do too badly, and maybe by the time March rolls around, we can get out of our rocking chairs for one last charge...perhaps like that of the infamous Light Brigade?

Someone said we play at GIUSEPPE MEAZZA. When Milan plays its San Siro

How do we plan to beat you? The best way to describe it is: somehow Milans big games are usually decided by two or three touches by Pirlo, Seedprf, KAka and in the end Pippo. Do not expent attacking Milan that will pass like crazy and try to play like Wenger's team. Milan will be Milan. Pirlo's wide passes, Oddo's horrible crosses , Clarence and Kaka' will make something up and Inzaghi will be always in an offside. Untill one moment

For real, I think Milan will play in higher tempo. With Seedorf and Kaka' playing visibly better football and Inzaghi up front, that will be all tha twill change. We will probably have more corners and free kicks then in London also.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Good to see you here. Welcome to MM!

Quality of San Siro is often awful lol (like potato field that's what they say). But that affects Milan just as much as Arsenal, so I don't think you can blame the field (unless it's horrendous like teams in lower division).

It's not just winning due to home support: But we have seen again and again a different MIlan at home. Now, I'm not saying that Milan IS going to win at home... Arsenal definitely has the chance to do it; we are just saying that Arsenal will see a different milan, at San Siro, 2 weeks later; and that may make a huge difference.

You are right that most of the poor league performance come before the break, but playing against SErie A teams is different from playing in CL then (you'll have to understand Italian way of playing against Milan in order to fully appreciate it). Also, Milan is already quit renowned for playing far less emphasis on Serie A (no idea why) and players are usually not as motivated as playing in Champion League.

The two years that we have won CLs (2003; 2007): Milan came in both 4th.

And we are going to come in 4th again this year -.-!

It's not 4-5-1; it's 4-3-2 (Seedorf and Kaka) - 1 and it's different. also known as the christmas tree formation.

4-3-2-1 has beaten Real Madrid, Liverpool (twice almost lol), Man U (3 times out of 4), and many others...
4-3-1-2 is used less frequently, usually against weaker team such as Deportivo (at home) and PSV. Or when both strikers are extremely fit.

Not sure if Ancelotti will play christmas tree or 4-3-1-2; given that we are lacking players in terms of attack (only Pato, Gila, and Inzaghi available) and that we have been playing one game per 3 days, I think Milan will opt for 4-3-2-1 in the first half.

4-4-2 is never Milan's strongest performance. In fact, quite awful.

Contrary to believe, Milan doesn't just rely on pace, though it is important. Milan tends to use ball possession and high-technique passing to tease the defense apart. And, of course, take adv. of lack of concentration of the opponent team.

Gilardino is never a real force in Champion League, though I will say that you'll see Pato - Gilardino if Milan lost 1-0 in the first half at SS.

Unlucky is almost always the word that the other team used when they didn't score against Milan (if not beacuse of the woodwork (that's the striker's fault), if not the last-ditch tackle (but that's what Milan does even at Serie A), if not because of that too much strength on the pass...)

Agree that Arsenal can dominate the game like they did yesterday, Arsenal has a high chance of going through. But do you ReALLY think that Arsenal can dominate the whole 180 minutes against a team that has won the Champion league 6 times in history (twice in the last 5 years and still playing about much the same team?)

The fact that Arsenal is putting high crosses (which they don't usually do according to you) is a sign that they fail to open up Milan in their usual way. The same goes for Milan: I Don't see MIlan playing long ball to pato (who is short and definitely not as good as Gilardino in heading the ball I guess) but they did just that yesterday, which were all in all awful.

And we have an exceptional record against English team at San siro .

Congrats on buying a Milan shirt! - J

I never saw your post until and now, so sorry for the late response.

Why is it so bad? I always assume as Italy has a better climate than England, that most Italian teams would good pitches. Is this the case for most teams? I watch Serie A games, here and there but I don't distinctly remember the pitch quality. Like you said though it will affect both teams.

I am aware of the Christmas tree, but in England those AM's are considered as midfielders, so they just say 5. I don't know why though.

It would be interesting to see whether it's the 2 upfront for you and a lone striker. Personally I think 2 strikers may suit you better, give us more to think about. Lone strikers are much easier to nullify, especially if the midifield is not making up the ground to help.

The thing is about Arsenal is,the bigger the team, the better we play. Last season was our worst season under Wenger ever since he joined 11 years ago, yet we still had the best head to head record out of the Big 4, beating the champions United twice. Don't let the last game against United cloud your judgement. You could see one thing on the minds on the players in that game and that was Milan. This team we have is very very hungry, for us playing you is our biggest game ever in the CL ever alongside the game's against Madrid. The players want to prove, that they can mix it up with the big boys, and there's none better than doing it against a team of your calibre.

Also we dominated, Juventus and Madrid not too long ago, and we kept the better possesion in both legs. Obviously those two are not Milan but the point is that we have done it against other big teams. Against your team it will be harder, which is why we need to be on the top of our game.

About the high balls and such, like I said in my previous post. It was more down to our inexperience, over eagerness, we were not patient but than again it could have been deliberate, so we will never know for sure.

Maybe but we have a great record against Italians, so were the perfect match.

I didn't know who to get on the back of the shirt, there was Van Basten, Boban, Altafini, Gullit, Nordhal and amongst many others greats to choose from, but I settled on George Weah. If you wonder why, well it was because Wenger bought him ifrom Africa and he wears the same number as my favourite player Henry.

Outlaw,
about the pitch, the San Siro will have 3 games played on it from now until we play on the 4th; Milan this weekend against Palermo, Inter vs Roma on the 27th, and Milan vs Lazio the weekend before our match. That is part of the problem, it never gets a rest there are games on it every weekend.

Mrki, I forgot that's what the scum call it. Hope they lose in the league, how dare they go a season unbeaten like us two.

Originally Posted by Giovanni

I'd like to point out that Pato has played his 7th official game with Milan after joining the club. Does a player need a bit of time to gel with new team and new type of football?

The understanding with Kakà and Pirlo is still work in progress.

If you were talking to me, than I totally agree. Patience is wearing thin and thin now amongst bosses in football. So even if Pato never played well in his games I would still have backed him for many many years. Pato has done so much, in so little time and he is bound to only become better.