Summer Mercato

Originally Posted by hwmook

Bingo, all the facts on target. We have the same points even though i didn't see your posts before mine.

Yes, I also bit surprised to read your posts but I agree with your numbers. That what I've read in football websites.

Well, I didn't against Torres move to Milan as I like his type as striker but what I concerned was his price (compare to his conditions/performance in that time). No big clubs (who were always linking with him like Milan, ManU, Arsenal, etc) could bring him from Madrid even ManU who were 'crazy' enough (not as 'crazy' as Madrid though ) to splash money for one player.

Originally Posted by drucurl

Great post Jeff. I'll go on RECORD to say that Mario Gomez will make it big here.

Few of my predictions have failed...the most glaring one being Sheva's flop in England. I also thought Kleberson was going to amount to soemthing


However the fact remains that there ARE world class players that you can spot. and if you change their team/level of service/make minor improvements they WILL be world class. There are players like Ronaldo (the real one but the only example that comes to mind atm) who can score by the boatload ANYWHERE. I believe that Torres may well be one of these. I think Tevez is another player who can play well anywhere ( I mean it doesn't take a rocket scienctist to predict that an Argentine who won POY in Brazil could survive anywhere )

Don't know about Torres; how many goals did he score in England (didn't see all the discussions previously).

I think Tevez was overrated; his term at Argentina didn't impress me. I might well be wrong!

Ancelotti is staying and he loves the christmas tree formation. Has anybody thought about the fact that if he is staying we can forget about all the rumours all together? I love for either Drogba or Eto'o to come together with Ronaldinho, but it just ain't happening. Not cause Milan doesn't want to, but because our boring coach just won't allow it.

Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambro
---Kaka-Seedorf---
-----Inzaghi-------

This formation is considered holy by our master tactician. These 6 players are staying and are also considered holy, this means that even Pato and Flamini have bench seats reserved for next season. Who are these big names that are prepared to sit next to them on the bench during our UEFA cup matches

Torres:
33 PRM matches - 24 goals
11 CL matches - 6 goals

Tevez:
34 PRM matches - 14 goals (can be explained by the fact he wasn't a starter)
12 CL matches - 4 goals (same)

Originally Posted by fifamaster

Ancelotti is staying and he loves the christmas tree formation. Has anybody thought about the fact that if he is staying we can forget about all the rumours all together? I love for either Drogba or Eto'o to come together with Ronaldinho, but it just ain't happening. Not cause Milan doesn't want to, but because our boring coach just won't allow it.

To people with this argument, the same "contre argument" is: Ancelotti wanted Toni and Ribéry last season ... Ribéry is a winger (can play like a classical offensive midfielder anyway).

And showing little respect and giving some credit to a coach that brought you 2 CL (+ a final and a semi-final), 1 Scudetto (and two second place), 1 Copa Italia and some other international trophies wouldn't kill you I think ...

Originally Posted by Jeff

Dru never says that Gila is going to be good; that's his argument. I take his argument serious in the sense that Torres is a world class player, but my previous posts also argue why it's unfair whatsoever to compare a player who succeeded overseas will succeed elsewhere.

He also claims that R99 would be a great buy (which was...) but at the end he didn't fare well. It's unfair, then, for us if we said that R99 was not up to standard. It would indeed be a 'cannon behind the horse' had we said that "see R99 is going to be a flop I told you soon".


Dru can still strengthen his argument by saying that now that Torres has played in both small (A. Madrid) and big (liverpool, or are they? ) team, and has played in two different countries, we are more certain that Torres will be better at playing in Italy.Anyway... if that bit of reasoning makes sense.

RE: Ronaldo I said that Ronaldo would be good in a Henrik Larsson (of Barca) type role. To me it turned out that he could have even been our main goal scource if he didn't get injured (again ) I won't fight (too much ) with anyone that calls ronaldo a flop since he hasn't produced nearly as much as we expected/needed. However the fast remains that when Ronaldo played he scored. Hence the ability was always there. Do you get that same feeling with Gila? Do you get the feeling that when he takes the pitch he'll score or contribute to the attack in such a large way that we'll win? That's the feeling you get with Fernando Torres. Even while at Athletico you could feel this way.... You guys MUST know the feeling. We got it all the time with sheva. We got it alot with Kaka and Crespo. I feel it with Pato. I even get it with Pippo when the match is big enough I felt it all the time with Dwight Yorke at ManU and now with CR7. I've never felt it with Gila....even in the matches that he actually does score. I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say here but I guess it is what defines a "dangerous" attacker ?

I guess not everything in football follows cold hard logic and I'm drifting off into this region so I'll shut up now

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Torres:
33 PRM matches - 24 goals
11 CL matches - 6 goals

Tevez:
34 PRM matches - 14 goals (can be explained by the fact he wasn't a starter)
12 CL matches - 4 goals (same)

Forst of all Mr GeoTav kudos for defending our wonderful coach Carlo Ancelotti People need to realize that you can't do some jobs without the proper tools

Secondly Tevez is more of a support striker/ CAM than a #9 So 14 goals isn't bad. Combine that with the fact that regardless of the formation you see, Tevez and Rooney somehow always end up feeding CR7 So all considered he did very very well Why else would Fergie trust him and him only as the only striker in the later stages of the finals

Originally Posted by GeoTav

To people with this argument, the same "contre argument" is: Ancelotti wanted Toni and Ribéry last season ... Ribéry is a winger (can play like a classical offensive midfielder anyway).

And showing little respect and giving some credit to a coach that brought you 2 CL (+ a final and a semi-final), 1 Scudetto (and two second place), 1 Copa Italia and some other international trophies wouldn't kill you I think ...

Those were just rumours, and even if they are true, it only proves Carlo is a puppet. The facts are Emerson came and now Flamini comes. Defensive midfielders, just the way he likes them.

For the sake of argument, let's say Ribery and Toni came last year. Ribery would have been perfect for rotation with Seedorf and Kaka, and Toni would have been an excellent striker to finish off the tridente. But it would have meant Ronaldo, Inzaghi and Gilardino (and Pato) on the bench. How would he have managed that?

I have a lot of respect for Carlo, but I have to admit he lost some during last season. Not because of the results, but because of foolishly sticking to a formation against any opponent whatsoever. In my eyes this has influenced his credibility.

Originally Posted by drucurl

Forst of all Mr GeoTav kudos for defending our wonderful coach Carlo Ancelotti People need to realize that you can't do some jobs without the proper tools

Secondly Tevez is more of a support striker/ CAM than a #9 So 14 goals isn't bad. Combine that with the fact that regardless of the formation you see, Tevez and Rooney somehow always end up feeding CR7 So all considered he did very very well Why else would Fergie trust him and him only as the only striker in the later stages of the finals

I don't want to argue about Tevez and Torres, they are 2 (very) great players ... but not in Milan (unfortunately). I didn't see where it started and why you all speak about them now lol.

Anyway, I agree, Tevez is between a striker and an offensive midfielder, not a pure striker so ... but next year, he'll probably score more than 14 goals, something like 20 goals, it could be his average goal-record.

mrki, get out of fifamaster's mind !! lol

Originally Posted by fifamaster

Those were just rumours, and even if they are true, it only proves Carlo is a puppet. The facts are Emerson came and now Flamini comes. Defensive midfielders, just the way he likes them.

Read some previous pages on this topic I think ...
If it was just rumours, ok, so how do you know that Ancelotti is a "puppet" (what a respectful word lol) ? How do you know what Ancelotti really wanted ? Nor me, nor you can know, but rumours give me advantage on this

Originally Posted by fifamaster

For the sake of argument, let's say Ribery and Toni came last year. Ribery would have been perfect for rotation with Seedorf and Kaka, and Toni would have been an excellent striker to finish off the tridente. But it would have meant Ronaldo, Inzaghi and Gilardino (and Pato) on the bench. How would he have managed that?

Hypothesis ... mine is that Ribéry would have played on the right flank and ummmh Gourcuff on the left flank as wingers ... pure hypothesis, will never know who's right between you and me.

Originally Posted by drucurl

Forst of all Mr GeoTav kudos for defending our wonderful coach Carlo Ancelotti People need to realize that you can't do some jobs without the proper tools

drucurl, I have been reading here and other forums like R&B for years and I respect your opinion a lot

I think a coach is responsible for his squad. If he doesn't think it's good enough, he should resign. If Carlo and the managemant are not on the same wavelength, what's the point. The only way for this to be not the case, is to truely believe Carlo is a puppet. I give him more respect than that.

In my view Carlo thought he could at least win the CL with this squad, he however couldn't even qualify for it for next year. Do you honestly think he'll get more out of this team with his tree formation. You either think this or you're convinced he'll change tactics, but why didn't he do it before then? Wasn't it for all to see that it didn't work?

Originally Posted by fifamaster

I think a coach is responsible for his squad. If he doesn't think it's good enough, he should resign.

From your point of view, if the coach thinks the team isn't good enough, he should leave ? Is it that or did I missunderstand ?

If it's what you mean, wow ... I know a lot of coaches who should leave their clubs !!

A French example: Claude Puel (like I said once, probably the best French coach) in Lille ... each year, his president sells at least 2 players, and not the worst lol, for example, last year, he sold both Bodmer and Keita, who were Lille's leaders, to Lyon. This year, it seems like he will sell Makoun and won't try to keep Mavuba after the loan, whereas these two guys are two of the best DMs of French Ligue 1. And all Puel has had is Kluivert, finished player, in January, and youngsters from youth teams ... he stays there anyway and tries to do his job.

Same case for Ancelotti, even if he doesn't get the players he wants, it's his job to train and coach this team, and as far as he will like his job, he will like Milan, he will apreciate his players, he won't leave, even if results are a bit less good than they should have been.

And anyway, Ancelotti's role is coach, not manager ... it's Italy (it's the same in France, maybe in Spain too), not England where coaches are generally managers too and so they choose which players they have to buy.

PS: If I've missunderstood, I will have made this whole post for nothing lol ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Read some previous pages on this topic I think ...
If it was just rumours, ok, so how do you know that Ancelotti is a "puppet" (what a respectful word lol) ? How do you know what Ancelotti really wanted ? Nor me, nor you can know, but rumours give me advantage on this



Hypothesis ... mine is that Ribéry would have played on the right flank and ummmh Gourcuff on the left flank as wingers ... pure hypothesis, will never know who's right between you and me.

If he truly wanted these players, they would have come. Those players wouldn't have chosen Bayern above Milan (in CL), maybe wishful thinking as a Milan supporter but I truly believe this. But this a hypothesis as well. Let's just say they chose Bayern, then Carlo should have pinpointed two other players carloworthy and he should have done the job with those two. But anyways this all goes down behind the doors we'll never come. To the outside world, to us the supporters they present Emerson (and Pato). I believe Carlo was satisfied with this and that he really thought he could win a cup again. If in reality he demanded players and he simply didn't get them and he accepts this by not standing down, isn't he a puppet?

Your 'hypo' team, I really wonder how it would look like in total? Many times I tried our players to fit in a 4-4-2, but I never succeeded. Maybe you can show it

Originally Posted by drucurl

I've never felt it with Gila....even in the matches that he actually does score. I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say here but I guess it is what defines a "dangerous" attacker ?

I guess not everything in football follows cold hard logic and I'm drifting off into this region so I'll shut up now

If you have seen some of his youtube videos at the time of Parma, you may well ask the question the other way round.

And I don't think many people get that 'feelings' you are referring to about Inzaghi until a few years back then when he continued to score despite his age.

That 'feeling' you are referring to, I suppose, is more of a reputation than really a fear.

I have a feeling that Pirlo always score on freekick, or CR9 or Zidane, but I have never had that feeling with Figo, Nakamura, or the like. Does it mean that they are not good freetickers? No, it simply is that I have less knowledge about them or they are less well-known (thanks to soccernet or goal.com), or I didn't see them play as often so I don't know how 'lethal' they were.

Re: Pato, no I haven't sensed that dangerous feel. We'll have to see how he fares in Champion League. I don't think Pato is even mature (tactically) enough to do, but he is now again very famous that one will fear.

I've read that many bashed some of our previous market target, such as Lloris or other players.

I'd like to post a fable:

The Fox and the Grape - by Aesop

A hungry Fox saw some fine bunches of Grapes hanging from a vine that was trained along a high trellis, and did his best to reach them by jumping as high as he could into the air. But it was all in vain, for they were just out of reach: so he gave up trying, and walked away with an air of dignity and unconcern, remarking, "I thought those Grapes were ripe, but I see now they are quite sour."