Summer Mercato

Originally Posted by slifersd

You know what? I think Torres' price was a bit high myself. But that doesn't change the fact that we still should have signed him. A guy like Torres is worth the kind of money they paid for him because his production level is high enough and his value will only go up as time goes by. Even at the price Liverpool paid for him, this investment was still very much worth it. At the end of the day, a team Milan's caliber needs high quality players, regardless of their actual prices.

I certainly disagree; REal Madrid and Chelsea bought tons of high quality players at way overpriced.

End results?... Maybe not Real for the past two seasons, which are quite exceptional cases...

***

Meanwhile, this is what you wrote previously about Torres (not trying to expose you or quote you in anything, but this is what I have noted):

1) Torres has more talent and versatility, but his price and question marks surrounding his ability to fit in Italian football is a huge concern.

http://milanmania.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=63
Date: 2/07/2007

2) Also, Torres might not be a great fit here considering how badly Spanish players struggled in Italy.
http://milanmania.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=11
Date: 3/27/2007

After Torres has a good season at Liverpool:

3) We missed out on the next best striker in the world because we were cheap and we will live to regret it for a long time.We were kissing Athletico Madrid's butt for years for this guy only to cheap out at the last second to let him go to Liverpool.
http://milanmania.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=11
Date: 3/14/2008

So, you perceived that he was not a good fit (point 1 & 2), his price (point 1) was unreasoanble, and question marks surrounded his ability to fit in with Italy (point 2) before the transfer, what makes him all of a sudden someone we have completely missed because we 'cheap out' (point 3) when you previously mentioned that the price was unreasonable and it might not be a good fit?

i'm just curious whether you think your assessment about Torres was wrong, or I have misinterpreted the posts you made previously about Torres. Gladly hearing your opinion.

- J

p.s.: I searched your post with advance search with the name Torres and searched posts that you have made about him. Not many of them...

Originally Posted by rt9

What you say about Pato is completely off. Why would we buy an 18 year old prospect with no European experience just to please the fans? We could have bought any so-called "established" striker for that sort of money. We bought Pato because our coach and scouts believed in him and felt that he was worth the money.

And believe me a club like Milan does not have to buy star names just to please the fans every summer---we are not a circus, we are a football club. As long as we win trophies, the fans will be happy, even with 40 year old Maldini still playing. Now once we stop winning, things need to be done to continue the cycle, and that's exactly what's happening. I don't see what the problem is.

Oh really? So you think the management could've gotten away signing nobody for the team without upsetting the fans? Why? Because they got lucky and won the CL? The management, along with most of the fans knew the team needed reinforcements to get back on top. The managment dropped name after name the whole summer for the fans to get excited about and sold record number of tickets. There is no way they could've gotten away with signing nobody after all of that. Pato was a signing they had to make because they couldn't deliver anybody else to ease the frustration building with the fans. 22 million may sound like a lot, but it is not nearly enough for the Eto'o, Henry and the rest of the names Galliani tossed around all summer long. Sure, the management doesn't have to please the fans, but the simple fact is that there will be a lot of pissed off fans demanding refunds if they didn't bring anyone in. That's just how the business is.

As far as the scouting goes, I have next to no confidence with our scouting department at the moment. Look at the players we signed over the years, Pato and Bonera has been the only two that can be considered decent. Did our scouting department believe that Pato was going to become a star? Sure they did. But their judgment is as good as yours and mine. I mean, these are the same guys who believed Gourcuff will flourish in Milan and become the new Zidane. The same goes for the coach. This is the same guy who gave his approval to the Ricardo Oliveira signing and you make it sound like his opinion on a player is worth a damn.

There is, believe it or not, more to a soccer team than just winning or losing. Things have to be done the right way for the fans to be completely satisfied. And yes, that means even a winning team has to be injected with fresh blood every summer with the right players. This team hasnt been doing that over the last few years and that's why a lot of fans are upset.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Sorry, for me he was not worth for that mount of money. It would be so risky for Milan to buy a striker who couldn't proved that he was really talented as media talked about. It's already years (4?, 5? or 6? years he had been in Atletico) but he didnt showed big improvement in his performance with Atletico.

So, what Liverpool paid for Torres was overpriced IMO (of course in that time). That Torres has been doing well with Liverpool is another case.

His performance more than justified his cost. It's like paying 100 dollars for a rock only to realize that you actually bought a diamond. It may sound like a lot for a rock, but as it turns out, you actually made a great investment.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I certainly disagree; REal Madrid and Chelsea bought tons of high quality players at way overpriced.

End results?... Maybe not Real for the past two seasons, which are quite exceptional cases...

***

Meanwhile, this is what you wrote previously about Torres (not trying to expose you or quote you in anything, but this is what I have noted):

1) Torres has more talent and versatility, but his price and question marks surrounding his ability to fit in Italian football is a huge concern.

http://milanmania.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=63
Date: 2/07/2007

2) Also, Torres might not be a great fit here considering how badly Spanish players struggled in Italy.
http://milanmania.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=11
Date: 3/27/2007

After Torres has a good season at Liverpool:

3) We missed out on the next best striker in the world because we were cheap and we will live to regret it for a long time.We were kissing Athletico Madrid's butt for years for this guy only to cheap out at the last second to let him go to Liverpool.
http://milanmania.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=11
Date: 3/14/2008

So, you perceived that he was not a good fit (point 1 & 2), his price (point 1) was unreasoanble, and question marks surrounded his ability to fit in with Italy (point 2) before the transfer, what makes him all of a sudden someone we have completely missed because we 'cheap out' (point 3) when you previously mentioned that the price was unreasonable and it might not be a good fit?

i'm just curious whether you think your assessment about Torres was wrong, or I have misinterpreted the posts you made previously about Torres. Gladly hearing your opinion.

- J

p.s.: I searched your post with advance search with the name Torres and searched posts that you have made about him. Not many of them...

Lol! You are quoting me from over a year ago? Opinions do change overtime, you know? But anyway, I will try to explain my logic to you (for as much as I can still remember) so we can understand each other better.

Here is my take on Torres. He is one hell of a player and could've been a very good signing for us to make. He is, however, a bit overpriced. Overall, he may not be the most perfect signing for us to make when you take all factors into consideration. But, I have always believed that something is always better than nothing. I would like a guy like Eto'o, Henry and Totti better, but when those guys are out of the picture, a guy like Torres is definitely worth the investment. Especially when we have such a desperate need up front. So maybe Torres isn't the most perfect signing, but he is much much better than all the other flunkies the management brought in except for Pato (only time will tell on this one). In the transfer market, a team needs to have more options than one, right?

thx God now it's official that Amauri joined Juve ( i never like him):
http://www.channel4.com/sport/footba...ia/may30i.html

lol.. and our rumours are getting wild. Ancelotti to Chelski while Lippi would take over Milan:
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=717102

never believe that Ancelotti would go to Chelski. if he does then it would be coaching the Italy Team.

Can somebody please explain to me what does this thing about co ownership means...
The player is ownned by two teams but plays only for one.. why abate isnt playing for milan insted of empoli?????

Originally Posted by fifamaster

Your 'hypo' team, I really wonder how it would look like in total? Many times I tried our players to fit in a 4-4-2, but I never succeeded. Maybe you can show it

Far to be my "dream team" lol ... but the team from my hypothesis could have been, when Kaka' needs rest:

--------------------- GK --------------------------
----------- Defense (can't change it lol) -------------
------------- Gattuso/Ambro------------------------
------------------------ Pirlo -----------------------
Ribéry/Gourcuff ---------------- Seedorf/Ribéry/Gourcuff
---------------- Toni --- Pato ------------------

Beurk, not very beautiful scheme lol ...

We could also imagine that Kaka' is there and let Toni alone in front ... so you put Pato off that scheme (for example from September to January of last year) and you replace him by Kaka' in his classical offensive midfielder role ...

That would give you something like:
...
Ribéry ---- Kaka' ---- Seedorf
----------- Toni ------------

Pure hypothesis, I'm not a coach so I don't know if that could work, and I think Carlo is more aware than me about what can be done with his players ... anyway, he maybe thought about that kind of tactics when he (perhaps) wanted Ribéry and Toni ...

Originally Posted by slifersd

Lol! You are quoting me from over a year ago?

We have to be careful about what we say now !! lol

Pato, G.Rossi, Inzaghi, Toni, would be perfect to me ...

Originally Posted by MLM

lol.. and our rumours are getting wild. Ancelotti to Chelski while Lippi would take over Milan:
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=717102

sounds interesting

I have some simple questions/suggestions so maybe you guys can comment on it:

1. Antonio Di Natale? Noone ever mentions him in mercato news but he was absolutely one of the best players this year in serie a. For NT plays great ALWAYS and tactically and technically is almost perfect as a WINGER also. I think Milan could use him really well in long serie a season.

2. Co-ownership of Di Gennaro - that wasnt a smart move as now we will pay 5 mln next year again not to loose Di Gennaro who is one of the brighest young prospects of Milan.

3. Bring back Abate!!! Just bring him back and let him rotate, he is a good and young player.

4. Marzoratti is not good enough for Milan first team, I have that feeling.

Originally Posted by slifersd

His performance more than justified his cost. It's like paying 100 dollars for a rock only to realize that you actually bought a diamond. It may sound like a lot for a rock, but as it turns out, you actually made a great investment.

What kind of performance do you mean that more than justified his cost?

Here is his statistcs (some years with Atletico and a year with Pool):

----League -----Season--------Club-----Position--Games--Goals
Primera División 2003/2004 Atletico Madrid Angriff 35 19
Primera División 2004/2005 Atletico Madrid Angriff 38 16
Primera División 2005/2006 Atletico Madrid Angriff 36 13
Primera División 2006/2007 Atletico Madrid Angriff 36 14
ENG :Premier League 2007/2008 FC Liverpool Angriff 33 24

You can see how he'd done in Spain. In his young age (around 17 yo), he looks so promising but his 'promising' was not improving. The older he was, the lower his goals. Well, Gila was even better when he was in Parma (with regard to his price compare to his performance when Milan took him).

Originally Posted by hwmook

Juve just bought Amauri for 23M euros......crazy price for such a player IMO. I am glad we didn't spend this kind of money on him.

Very good player though. Milan also wanted him badly and he would have been much better than both Gilardino/Borriello but the price tag scared you off (also Zamparini didn't want to do bussines with You)

The price looks crazy indeed (22.8m euro) but it's only at first glance. Since two Juve players are included in the deal, Juve will only have to pay 12 m euro in three annual installments.
Nocerino had an awful season, he was useless to Juve after they bought Sissoko and his price was very low. By including him in the Amauri deal Juve sold him for unrealistic 7.5 m euro. The other youngster, Lanzafame, who is included in the transfer (1/2 of his rights actually) is overpriced also. His name wasn't mentioned in the official news about the transfer because his loan deal still didn't expire, but it's said that Juve are selling half of Lanzafame for 3.3 m euro, which is way too much.

This way Juve get rid of the not needed Nocerino, they give Palermo half of Lanzafame (Juve can always buy him back if he turns out to be good) and they pay "only" 12 m euro in 3 annual installments (4 m euro a year X 3 years)

It doesn't look too bad after all and Juve are getting a very good attacker, who can play as support striker to Trez or prima punta with Del Piero.
Amauri is very highly rated, especially in Italy. Every Italian i talked to, or everyone who follows Palermo agrees that Amauri is special, the kind of player the Italians like to call "a champion".
I'm not sure but i also think Giovanni was full of praises about Amauri, here on MM.

In other news....Mourinho apparently gave his list to Moratti and on top of the list is my favorite Marek Hamsik
The other three are Inler (Udinese), Hleb (Arsenal) and Capel (Sevilla).

Originally Posted by payne

the world of Galliani

“Reinforcements? Don’t worry, Milan will have a very competitive squad.”


so you all can just relax, and hope he aint bullshyting us

depends on how you define competitive.

i think for now, we are competitive enough for the UEFA cup, not sure after 2 years though.

Amauri is a great forward who will do great in Juve's sistem. Our problem is that the paople who run the club dont agree on the players we wont and we roam around in mercato searching without a clar concept. Juve is continuing to do good business, whatever Juve's fans say about Secco. With one more fullback and one more midfielder like VdV, Diego...Juve is ready for scudetto fight.

Galliani's claims that Boriello is a great forward and that he has scored more then Amauri are noncences ( aldough he DID score more ), becouse Amauri is 2 times player of what Boriello is.

Also, Gallianis says we miss one fullback like Zambrotta and one star forward for scudetto team - that is not enough, no way.

Originally Posted by mrki

Amauri is a great forward who will do great in Juve's sistem. Our problem is that the paople who run the club dont agree on the players we wont and we roam around in mercato searching without a clar concept. Juve is continuing to do good business, whatever Juve's fans say about Secco. With one more fullback and one more midfielder like VdV, Diego...Juve is ready for scudetto fight.

Galliani's claims that Boriello is a great forward and that he has scored more then Amauri are noncences ( aldough he DID score more ), becouse Amauri is 2 times player of what Boriello is.

Also, Gallianis says we miss one fullback like Zambrotta and one star forward for scudetto team - that is not enough, no way.

Galliani did not said exaxtly what Milan need to be great again.I think that he is hiding something about Milan market like he always did..