Euro 2008 (include all discussions)

Obviously now we have taken Antonini back we won't make a bid for him, but i'm surprised we didn't move for Grosso. He did really well when he came on and was quite a big threat down the left.

Tonight showed what Italy (and in a sense Milan) miss when Ambrosini & Gattuso play. Neither are midfielders who can make a run from the midfield past the forwards like Perotta or De Rossi ... which is no criticism of them as players, it's just not what they are best at.

It's also a shame we missed out on Sneijder as i think he could have complemented our midfield trio perfectly. Having the Dutchman along with Flamini, Gattuso & Ambrosini to compete for the 2 places alongside Pirlo would have given us alot of options and balance.

Maybe looking to Van der Vaart instead of Ronaldinho would be a good idea, he'd be cheaper and possibly just as good.

I also thought that Van Persie's & Affellay's brief cameos showed their potential talent with some great ball control. I don't want to sound like a kid in a sweet shop saying "i want, i want" for everything, but we could do with a player like that too. A player with pace, quick feet and a goal threat.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Stich: I think Panucci was down injured (hit by either Buffon or another netheland player), and the injury occurred to be outside the field. In other words, he didn't step off. He was being injured at that time.

It was a tricky situation to the referee, but in this case it is not because the player was injured. Thus the player couldn't get back to the field on time (notice when the goal happened the Italian player is still on the ground not knowing what happened).

If there is a rule saying that it should continue then that's a stupid rule, because you can easily injure a defender (without anyone's notice) and then get in a pesudo-offside position, and scored.

Regardless, that first goal is probably what blows Italy away, badly (coupled with other factors of course).

You are right it is tricky, and you already talked about one side of the "coin",however there is another outcome: When a player can missuse this kind of situation to trick the player into offside position.

This is somehow a loophole in the ref books i guess, cuz i heard a croatian ref on TV, and he didnt have a concrete judgment on this. Its basically on the ref to decide. and this time it was clear offisde as panucci was blown away by Buffon and he wasnt faking or smth.

The Croatian ref said that If he was hurt by a dutch player it would have been offside for sure

Also for a playmaker I didn't think that Pirlo did a good job controlling the tempo of the game. Then again it's so easy to just close down Pirlo because you know Ambrosini and Gattuso won't offer much of a threat. Like I've been saying for a season and a half now...that midfield trio DOES NOT WORK.

(to back up my previous claim, this is the site i copied the rule from, page 102)

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...08%5f10565.pdf

The first gaol is only a thing to blame for the lost. One goal shouldnt let down a world champion!

The fact is Italy couldnt do anything in first half except the chance of Toni who was so selfish not to head it to Di Natale. Italy was totally lost in first half in the midfieal area except at the beginning of the first half. The counter attack only justified the win of Hollan in the first half. If we look at back the second goal, it was fantastic counter attack, not just normal counter attack who all teams can do that. From left flank to the right flank and then pass to the left side to the free player and boom, GOAL!! Not like the chance Toni had!

The second half was pretty balanced and it's failure of Italy not able to make a single goal from chances they got. Was it tactical eror that put uncapble player to score or was it just the luck that went away from Italy? It's not important. It's failure of Italy.

Plus lost of Cannavaro should not influence Italy that high if Italy think that they have not only 11 players but more than that. Netherland also lost some of their players like Babel and Robben. It's all about tactic.

Donadoni:

Italy coach Roberto Donadoni gave his reaction following the shock 3-0 defeat to Holland in their first game in Group C at Euro 2008.

"My worst game as Italy coach? I don't know if that's true," he said, "in the first half the Dutch didn't really do that much better than us, we started well, then we conceded a couple of goals where we made some mistakes.

"The first goal was a bit dodgy, but I can't say for sure whether it counted, it's not up to me to decide that. Now we have two games which we need to win, we will do everything we can."

Asked if he would change the formation for the next game against Romania, he said: "Now we have to look calmly at our mistakes and then I will see, certainly I will put in the best possible formation."

On the surprise omission of midfielder Daniele De Rossi: "There was no surprise. It's you who assumed De Rossi would play. We didn't make any last minute change in the formation."

http://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.a...enutoId=729821

Originally Posted by Jeff

Toni's miss; Ambro's unfortunate shot at the end, Pirlo's freekick, Di Natale's cheap shoot (and btw, how he could shoot that with a nevertheland defender in front of Van Der Sar speaks AMAZING defense of the orange).

I agree with almost all of your post accept that Ambrosini's shot wasn't unfortunate, just a poor shot. Instead of hitting it straight or even breaking that line of defence and hitting it with his left, he shot towards a forest of legs and players ... that was never going in.

You also forgot about Del Piero's 2 chances, Grosso's chance and Pirlo's first free-kick that was alot closer than people thought. Van der Saar wouldn't have saved it had it been on target.

You have to accept that Holland got more things right today than Italy and more things went their way than Italy. Don't be so bitter

I don't know how Toni is considered world class. Every touch of the ball he loses. He flops around and dives . For a man his size, he allows smaller defenders to outmuscle him...Not an impressive outing.

No Inzaghi in this call up. Boy we might as well just pack our bags. Cassano instead of Inzaghi. Inzaghi, while not muscular by any means, is precision. He would not miss when under intense pressure.

I do admit Holland had more things right than Italy, and it was partly our line up and the players out on the pitch. Our backline was absolutely hideous.

This it was the first good match

Holland has two new fans
They are Swedish and both are referees

If Italia won’t win the next two matches they are out

Donadoni pls send materazzi home!!!!

Originally Posted by t.gianni

The midfield was really static today. How can you play 3 defensive midfielders and hope that they will create chances for the attackers. Donadoni missed a very important point: Milan is succesfull with Ambro, Rino and Pirlo because they have Kaka and Seedorf in front of them. Who did Italy have? I think the team missed a playmaker like Totti. I realized that in this squad there is hardly any world class playmaker. This team is going to suck in attack if it progresses.

Now the math is simple. Win against France and Romania and improve the GD.

I think Dona learned that from his friendly encounter with Belgium. Our national coach Vandereycken always plays with 3 DM, like he did against Italy. Hence our extremely poor performance in recent games. Dona probably thought Italy could do it beter than Belgium. Just like our national coach, Dona declared to the press that they didn't play that bad... the similarity freaks me out...

Originally Posted by Stitch

(to back up my previous claim, this is the site i copied the rule from, page 102)

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...08%5f10565.pdf

Thank you Stittch, thats really good post from you! I really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Koeke

I think Dona learned that from his friendly encounter with Belgium. Our national coach Vandereycken always plays with 3 DM, like he did against Italy. Hence our extremely poor performance in recent games. Dona probably thought Italy could do it beter than Belgium. Just like our national coach, Dona declared to the press that they didn't play that bad... the similarity freaks me out...

Yep. He thought wrong. If Belgium played poorly with three defensive midfielders, why did Donadoni try it? There wasn't enough creativity there. Even I can admit that. I mean Ambrosini might be good.. but not with two other defensive midfielders...

And not like our backline was any better. Materazzi... ugh.

If seem to remmeber Materazzi was terrible last season and without him I again don't see any world class center backs. Nesta really should have had stayed on for Euro 08. Barzagli is again ordinary. He can never step up to the level of Nesta and Cannavaro. Materazzi simply has to step up his game other wise Italy are doomed.

It would be too much to ask for but I would like to see Chiellini playing as a CB.

Originally Posted by t.gianni

If seem to remmeber Materazzi was terrible last season and without him I again don't see any world class center backs. Nesta really should have had stayed on for Euro 08. Barzagli is again ordinary. He can never step up to the level of Nesta and Cannavaro. Materazzi simply has to step up his game other wise Italy are doomed.

It would be too much to ask for but I would like to see Chiellini playing as a CB.

Nesta is probably thinking why he didn't reconsider... he's incredible... his slide tackling... perfect... he's produced great plays for Milan... in fact people referred to him as a one man army at times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU-G3Xe_3FM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb5JlOS9zvE