Euro 2008 (include all discussions)

Even more fun is that people are praising Van Der Sar.

com'on; Pirlo almost made him look stupid in the first freekick. Thanks JIm for reminding.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Na, finallya there is thread to discuss all games. Thank you Koeke to make this happen.

Your welcome mate

Originally Posted by Stitch

hey GeoTav, how come you cheer against your country?

I know some Frenchies and I must admit GeoTav is really one of a kind. For starters he wrights English

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Boring Euro day again !!

I hope to be proven wrong but isn't that typically for the first match in each group?

Originally Posted by xvr11

I don't know how Toni is considered world class. Every touch of the ball he loses. He flops around and dives . For a man his size, he allows smaller defenders to outmuscle him...Not an impressive outing.

If you judge him on this single match with no good passes (only one he missed) ... when you score as much as him, either in Italy or Germany + with national team, you can be considered as a W-C striker ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

I'm starting to think I didn't watch the right game ...
I sincerely think that Pirlo did nothing amazing and missed too many passes and free-kicks/corners in that match, he also lost a ball by pushing too far his ball which could have given a goal to Netherlands.
Yes he was dangerous in one free-kick in first half I think (when I say dangerous, I even don't think so, to be honest, I think the free-kick Jeff wrote about, probably the one Pirlo tried to put directly in the goal whereas everybody thought it would be a pass but the effect pushed the ball too in left, wasn't dangerous) and in one free-kick in second half (saved by Van Der Sar).

PIrlo curled in a freekcik that went past the bottom left corner post (remember all Italian players in offside positions and ran back?) Van Der Ser was off position. IN fact, Pirlo didn't even need to go for the corner. Anywhere near the corner would help because VDS was completely off position. That was not dangerous? That was so dangerous that no one except him even saw it. Go and see the replay.

Pirlo didn't lose the ball as often as you say. And made a brilliant pass down to Grosso on the left in the second half who shot and denied by VDS. You forgot that?

Pirlo controlled and distributed the ball correctly even if not many of them are amazing.

His corner was not awful. It didn't go all the way to far side and met no one's head.

Talking about meeting someone's head, his long pass met TOni who didn't position himself well.

and btw, his corner almost led to a goal in the first half.

and you said he is awkward? I have 6 strong points here showing that PIrlo is not awkward.

Oh wait, he defended overall well enough today and made some excellent tackle if you remember.

I think we did see a different game.

Originally Posted by Jeff

1 - PIrlo curled in a freekcik that went past the bottom left corner post (remember all Italian players in offside positions and ran back?) Van Der Ser was off position. IN fact, Pirlo didn't even need to go for the corner. Anywhere near the corner would help because VDS was completely off position. That was not dangerous? That was so dangerous that no one except him even saw it. Go and see the replay.

2 - Pirlo didn't lose the ball as often as you say. And made a brilliant pass down to Grosso on the left in the second half who shot and denied by VDS. You forgot that?

3 - Pirlo controlled and distributed the ball correctly even if not many of them are amazing.

4 - His corner was not awful. It didn't go all the way to far side and met no one's head.

5 - Talking about meeting someone's head, his long pass met TOni who didn't position himself well.

6 - and btw, his corner almost led to a goal in the first half.

and you said he is awkward? I have 6 strong points here showing that PIrlo is not awkward.

7 - Oh wait, he defended overall well enough today and made some excellent tackle if you remember.

I think we did see a different game.

1: If I remember, the ball goes 1 "small" meter on the left of the goal ... but I'll try to watch him again to see if I missed something !!
2: I didn't say he lost the ball very often, I said he lost one time which could have given a very dangerous occasion for Netherlands, watch replays
3: It's clearly there I disagree ... he tried to pass the balls too often in airs (ouch, do you understand what I'm trying to explain ?) whereas none of these long passes could have given something good with that pitch ...
4: Corners were not awful, but they weren't good ... just average corners with nothing happening with them ...
7: No one defended well, that has no sense I think to say that when the defeat is 3-0 and the first half is entirely in advantage for the opponents with many occasions ...

For the "awkward" word, I don't know its meaning, but I don't think it's a respectful word, so I won't use it (but I'm interested to know its meaning lol). He just wasn't very good, like almost all Italy players tonight ... (not only Milan ones Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambrosini and our new one, Zambrotta)

ok, this is my personal opinion but,
2 out of 3 our midfielders were dreadful...
Pirlo - OK
Ambrosini and Gattuso,.. .I was really surprised to see them start, they are nothing like a modern midfielder! they are inefficient, lack creativity, poorly support the attacks.. Gattuso - can't pass, period. Ambrosini - looks lost throughout 90 minutes.

If Italy wants to qualify they should consider playing
Aguilani - Pirlo - De Rossi

I hope Ancelotti was watching the game and keeps it in mind for a transfer season...

Originally Posted by Koeke

I know some Frenchies and I must admit GeoTav is really one of a kind. For starters he wrights English

Big LOL

Originally Posted by Koeke

I hope to be proven wrong but isn't that typically for the first match in each group?

Yes, but it could have been a good Euro day with a win from Italy, no matter the way to win lol !!

With that loss, even if we had had 2 very amazing matches, I would have said it was a boring Euro day because of the result ... lol


PS: Jeff, let's continue our speak about our midfielders on the "Milan players in Euro" topic because I just saw we were arguing about that on 3 different topics !! lol

Originally Posted by Giancarlo

Did Inter pay Donadoni to keep him on the national team? There is no excuse for this.

Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ? Inter is already a joke and would have to be banned from Serie A to play in Premier League (where all teams are international sides without any English lol). So let them thinking they can be important for Italy thanks to Materazzi !! lol

More seriously, there isn't so much choices on these recent times for defense ... I'm afraid that Italy could be in trouble with its defense for the next World Cup !! There's a generation missing (because the next generation seems very promising in all areas).

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ? Inter is already a joke and would have to be banned from Serie A to play in Premier League (where all teams are international sides without any English lol). So let them thinking they can be important for Italy thanks to Materazzi !! lol

More seriously, there isn't so much choices on these recent times for defense ... I'm afraid that Italy could be in trouble with its defense for the next World Cup !! There's a generation missing (because the next generation seems very promising in all areas).

As much I hate Materazzi, he is not that bad of a defender. he did have a decent WC06 and the 07 Serie A. Any coach would have had picked him and hoped that he would retur to his WC form.

Yes, Italy is missing a generation of defenders but I think that Chiellini can be the next generation of defenders. Donadoni should certainly give him a chance.

Originally Posted by t.gianni

As much I hate Materazzi, he is not that bad of a defender. he did have a decent WC06 and the 07 Serie A. Any coach would have had picked him and hoped that he would retur to his WC form.

Yes, Italy is missing a generation of defenders but I think that Chiellini can be the next generation of defenders. Donadoni should certainly give him a chance.

Donadoni will have to include some young defenders playing with Canavarro and Materazzi/Barzagli for the World Cup qualifications if they don't want to be in trouble like France was after Euro 2004 (they had to call back Thuram, Makelele and Zidane, because they weren't able to qualify for the last World Cup).

Materazzi is a decent defender, sometimes a good defender, rarely but it can happen, a very good defender, but if for example Nesta was still there, he would be the 3rd/4th choice for the national team ...

PS: I don't expect a lot from Donadoni, I don't like him, I'm sure he won't change the team too much, maybe in midfield and one guy in front, but Barzagli-Materazzi will probably play again together (I hope Donadoni will make me lying).

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ?

Eventhough you are joking, you to hit a point there. Let me put it this way, there's only one player from the Serie A champions Italy has to call, this is the team that was more regular through the season and he wasn't even a regular there; then there's Roma in second place, a nice team, they play fine, but we all know they are a naive team, they've got like 3 players called up (Panucci, De Rossi and Perrota); then there's Juventus a mediocre 3rd place team, that most likely wouldn't have reached it had they play some european football, they have 4 players from there (Buffon, Del Piero, Camoranessi, Chiellini); then there's just one player from the 4th place who was called up because one of the defenders got injured; 3 players, the same 3 midfielders of the team that won a place at the UEFA Cup, the 3 midfielders of a midfield that has been awful all season long...at least 2 out of the 3 will be starters for Italy; 1 player from another UEFA Cup team; and another one from another team that is going to UEFA (the last two are the most talented ones a.k.a Cassano and Di Natale). A one season wonder that scored 18 goals for Genoa and wasn't able to handle the preassure of being the top goalscorer. The second goalkepper is from a relegated team, and one of the starter defenders played for the team that received more goals in the season.

From abroad there was the captain that got injured, but also came from a sucky year, the LB/RB that also had a bad season, the LB that played so so for Lyon, the 3rd GK that never played for Sevilla, and the best striker and the best player that plays for Bayern Munich, who can't do anything if the rest of his teamates aren't functioning.

What I'm trying to say in this, is that that lack of italian players in Inter, and their dominance in this 2 seasons, while the other teams basically sucked or were having a cinderella story or were just too naive, was defenetly going to affect their NT in a way or another.

That said, Italy still isn't dead. There have been other 2 games for Italy under Donadoni that have ended in a similar result (3-1, against France and in a friendly against Hungary-with the starters-), Italy has bounce back from those results.

Yes, and I"m alerting people here now that I'm going to merge all these threads within the next 15mins (give you guys enough notice now so that you won't ask me 'where is my post"?

Thanks - J

I"m alerting people here now that I'm going to merge all these threads within the next 15mins (give you guys enough notice now so that you won't ask me 'where is my post"?

Thanks - J

awkward means looked weird. Not an offensive word, but Pirlo didn't look awkward. If you play, for example, Buffon as a striker: that will be really awkward.

regarding your point 2, I would say that it happened often all the time with Pirlo's position. It happened in good and bad games, but only more so obvious in the bad ones. Anywya....

I will still maintain my suggestion though. That first goal, whether it's legal or ilegal or not, has blown the Italian players apart psychologically and destroyed the game plan completely. This I had not a single doubt. The key is not whether the goal is legal or not; the key is whether AT THAT MOMENT whether the players feel justified.

Clearly not. ANd honestly I don't think any one of us would say that, legal or not, that's fortunate for Italy. I think people have underestimated the influence of that goal, thinking that Netheland win 3-0 but not 1-0. If that happened at after 2-0 I wouldn't have a problem, but having it as the first goal makes a huge difference. Taht's what I"m arguing.

No one defended well because we had two awful defenders in the back. Cannavaro and Barzagli play well with each other. Barzagli does not play well with anyone else and we see this everywhere. Especially today. It's like Cannavaro needs to hold Barzagli's hand (according to one commentator). Stop blaming the damn midfield, and put the blame on the defenders in the back. Wolfsburg will be regreting buying him.

Pirlo was by far the best player by far. And he was the best in this game. He tried his best under the circumstances of the crappy atmosphere. Milan would have performed well if Donadoni started with Grosso, Cassano and Del Piero. Del Piero could have been the captain of the team... and there were calls for him to be. I like Del Piero and he is an inspirational person.

Grosso should have been out on the field to start with.