Euro 2008 (include all discussions)

agree with jeff and gio

Italian NT and controversy remind me of Poll and Moreno.

I hope we do no have any officiating errors for the France game. I also hope that MvB repays back the love which Italians have shown him. Anyway, the prospects of Holland losing against Romania are not that good.

Originally Posted by vivardo

I hope you agree that Italy didn't profit from that offside call.

lol.. from the beginning i never said that offside call brought the benefit to Italy. even my 5 years old niece knew that ! my underlined point was defenders shouldnt makes a crucial mistake let alone many. which was clearly my opinion. others who doesnt agree could go with his/her opinion as well

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Yes of course, but if the players were better, we would write about these referees mistakes by joking ... unfortunately, Italian players are in trouble when their opponents accelerate their passes and attack, it's what surprises me the most !!

exactly ! that's the point. my boss always mad whenever his employees comes late for work and the reason is about TRAFFIC. he always says: "you know that traffic is always sucks. so do something with that, dont make it as a reason !" same goes for football. we always know that referee mostly sucks. if we do playing great then the referee's bad decision is only a joke at the end so it never the reason and shouldn't be. but yes.. i agree with all, many referees in this Euro 2008 are sucks. but take the example from Spain's game last night. they robbed when penalty kick wasnt give by the referee which was clearly there was a fault on Silva before, but instead of shocked and struggled after one unfair decision by referee they were back and won the game and again it was .... DAVID VILLA so that's the champ attitude! again.. Italy had progress but something still missing from their performances. i didnt satisfy with those 2 games from them in this Euro 2008. not Italy like the one i like to watched before

i do really miss the likes of Cannavaro, Nesta and Maldini. they are always have champion attitude and could affect the whole team. i hope next game vs France Donadoni could brings something different and takes Italy to qualify from this group. and again i hope they wont waste many chances and pay alot at the end. Holland is qualified to the next round and one ticket left i hope belongs to Italy !

Even Inzaghi adds something to games... when Milan plays with Inzaghi there is always something different about the team how they play... something better...

And let me tell you something... Nesta did retire, but Inzaghi wanted to play in this Euro Cup as a last duty to his country... and Donadoni did what? It disgusts me.

Originally Posted by MLM

exactly ! that's the point. my boss always mad whenever his employees comes late for work and the reason is about TRAFFIC. he always says: "you know that traffic is always sucks. so do something with that, dont make it as a reason !" same goes for football. we always know that referee mostly sucks. if we do playing great then the referee's bad decision is only a joke at the end so it never the reason and shouldn't be.

... but instead of shocked and struggled after one unfair decision by referee they were back and won the game and again it was .... DAVID VILLA so that's the champ attitude!

i do really miss the likes of Cannavaro, Nesta and Maldini. they are always have champion attitude and could affect the whole team.

You can always do better because you can leave office early in order to avoid traffic. But you can't do that with referee coz you can't buy him (or wait, really can't you ?)

Another point: If it's a geniue mistake, I'm sure no one will make a fuss about it. But those two mistakes (I'm talking about the offside by VN and the disallowed goal) are just so glaring that you can't miss. It's like you are speeding by 20mph and the police didn't catch you because... (like UEFA said) you are not speeding.

Sometimes top-level play really is a matter of one-time decision: and we all may consider this a high level of play. We can never tell what one decision and how that might influence the game. We can only second guess it makes a difference.

Bottom line is: All I am saying is, ref. can be a reason, in a top-tier game when goal are few and goals are involved. It's not like bad refereeing in the middle of the pitch; it's refereeing that can cost a team go through or go out.

Yes, Italy can do well and only leave the referees' jokes aside, but in a top game it's just that one or two moments that make a difference. And that's why ref. should be very very careful when giving judgment to critical moments.

This's why, for once, I support the US's system of re-watching offsides, goals etc. Introduce some technology and this problem will be gone, in a sec.

spain is playing against Sweden who were ready to succumb at any moment for the last 10 minutes. And half of the team was up pushing for nothing only to be countered by Spain. Not taking away the credits from Villa (excellent s far), but Romania is less stupid than that.

Whether they are fighting on or not does not depend on whether they eventually score a goal. I thought the Italian players did try all the way to the end but it just never turned up. Yes, if Italy were stronger than it's fine, but they are all fine opponents (with Netheland scoring 7 goals please gentleman).

I agree; Italy lacks someone who is that legendary. Del Piero is just not convincing.

Originally Posted by Jeff

You can always do better because you can leave office early in order to avoid traffic. But you can't do that with referee coz you can't buy him (or wait, really can't you ?)

dunno about buying referee, i never try before i wish i have that tons of money so i can answer your question. i agree that referee decision could makes the difference. even it is good or bad. but.. if we playing great.. lets say owned every inches of the field, and creates many chances and all of them doing with the great finish at the end. i doubt the referee could dissalowed every chances that we get. if they still do that, dont worry Jeff i will straight fly to Austria or Switzerland to shot them in my own hand. the sin all on me, no worries

But those two mistakes (I'm talking about the offside by VN and the disallowed goal) are just so glaring that you can't miss. .

hmm.. this is always be a question for me after i read some FIFA offside rule and looked again the match. is that saying in the rule that the opponent cant be offside whenever one of the last 2 defenders already left the field? and if we see the Holland vs Italy game again Panucci was the one who left the field after crashed with Buffon (Panucci was on right side behind the net) and after that VN scored that controvercy goal. but i am not so sure about that. probably anyone could enlighten me why we still saying that goal still controvercy, despite that Holland did played a beautiful football. no doubt. a deserved win but i agree with Toni's dissalowed goal with you.. it should be Italy's goal!

Originally Posted by MLM

hmm.. this is always be a question for me after i read some FIFA offside rule and looked again the match. is that saying in the rule that the opponent cant be offside whenever one of the last 2 defenders already left the field? and if we see the Holland vs Italy game again Panucci was the one who left the field after crashed with Buffon (Panucci was on right side behind the net) and after that VN scored that controvercy goal. but i am not so sure about that. probably anyone could enlighten me why we still saying that goal still controvercy, despite that Holland did played a beautiful football. no doubt. a deserved win

I already explained way back ago why
1) it is stupid that it is a goal, regardless of whether it's legal or not.
2) HOw the first goal, and the way it is scored and allowed, completely changed the game.

So I'm not going to repeat myself. You can find my analysis back then (about a couple of pages ago).

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To answer your question short: Why do we still have controversy?
Answer: Because UEFA is stupid.

And here is one bottom line for you: Learn to question authority.

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Here is another perfect analogous story. A friend of a friend of mine won more than 1 billion dollar in HK (where I come from) from racing and lucky six. he opened a joint bank account with his wife, only to be robbed by his wife who withdrew all the money from the bank account they co-created.

Legally: His wife is not guilty because it's legal to withdraw money from a co-owned account.

Practically: I'm sure there is controversy about this?

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Yet 2 other bottom lines: 1) Rule is set by human; human is prone to error.
2) When you make a mistake, be brave and admit it.

It's better off for everyone, including the person/organization who makes the mistake and admit, then shrugging off responsibility. UEFA is just not brave enough to do that.

Both UEFA and FIFA never learn.

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So btw, how's UEFA going to fix the farce when they claim it's right to call Toni's goal offside (and btw, UEFA has a rule about calling ambiguous offside as ON-side in order to promote goal scoring. Ring a bell of Inzahgi's second seemingly off-side goal against Bayern Munich?) while the ref says it's a mistake?

Shouldn't we abide by the rule that ambiguous offside should be called onside to encourage SCORING?

Conclusion: If there is controversy about Toni's goal, then it has to have controversy about VN's goal. Claiming that VN's goal is legitimate while Toni's one is illegimate land neither authority nor consistency for the organization.

Why am I so fed up? Not only because Italy is mal-treated, but I hate seeing organizations who abuse their authority.

And I am sure you are with me on that .

Giovanni don't take it personal but from what I've gathered majority of the fans are against the Italy NT - everyone saw what happened against Australia and how that muppet got Zidane all heated up. I'm just putting my thoughts forward on the NT and never mentioned Italian football as a general because if that was the case then I would not be on a Milan forum. All I'm saying is that fair enough Italy got robbed in the Romania game but how many times have they been on the other end?

Also for the latter part of your debate - I'm from England but not English so that pretty much is meaningless as I don't 'support' England.

To the true Italy fans good luck against France, what would the QF stages of the Euros be without the world champions eh?

Ghost:
Majority of the fans hate England (This statement makes as much as sense as yours).
How do you know that what Materazzi told Zidane isn't normal among footballers on the pitch? Zidane was frustrated because of the amazing save by Buffon before the incident and he vented this frustration against Materazzi. Also, Zidane has head-butted another player in the past and is not the most saintly player on earth. Zidane is like Schumacher who is loved by everybody, but he still did force an accident to try to win the Championship (against villeneuve).

... and don't even start with the bad refreeing decision which has helped Italy. If you want proof watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pm4jD5kU4U

I don't blame you for (perhaps) your wrong analysis. It is the english speaking commentators who love to massacre Italy NT for fun. People like Andy Gray, I mean. They call the players cheats, divers, match fixers and whatever comes to their mind. Trust your personal opinion and you will know the truth.

Originally Posted by t.gianni

Zidane was frustrated because of the amazing save by Buffon before the incident and he vented this frustration against Materazzi. Also, Zidane has head-butted another player in the past and is not the most saintly player on earth. Zidane is like Schumacher who is loved by everybody, but he still did force an accident to try to win the Championship (against villeneuve).

Its only your version based on your assumption. No one knows what happened except those two players, Zidane and Materazzi.

Let's not talk this case again. It's already long happened and Zidane even already ignored the case.

From goal.com but from Paolo's dad:


15/06/2008 17:16
Maldini Tells Van Basten: Lose & Forget Milan Job
Former Italy coach Cesare Maldini is confident that Holland will not deliberately lose their match against Romania on Tuesday night because if they do so Marco Van Basten can forget any ambitions he has of coaching in Serie A.
»Comments Print This Story Send To A Friend Contact Us galleria zoom The Dutch have already qualified for the quarter finals as group winners having thrashed Italy and France 3-0 and 4-1 respectively in their first two games.

Both World Cup finalists must now go for a win in their game, and hope that Holland can do them a favour against Romania.

However there are obvious conspiracy theories that Marco Van Basten’s men may throw the game in order to eliminate France and Italy who are potential semi-final opponents.

Former national team coach Cesare Maldini, who led the Azzurri at the 1998 World Cup today visited the Azzurri training camp, and he believes that Holland will play fair.

“I can guarantee Van Basten and the Dutch's seriousness. I travel the world and I know how they think," said the father of Paolo.

“Against Romania they will play seriously. And I also want to say something else. Van Basten has a two year contract [with Ajax after the Euros] but I know that after he wants to come to coach in Italy.

"Will it be at Milan? We will see. But for sure he will want to arrive in Italy with a clean slate, and he cannot do this by losing to the Romanians on purpose.”

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That's a surprisingly valid point...

its also on acmilan.com Jeff... in English too

Janku has been delivering some excellent crosses inthe game against Turkey so far...

Originally Posted by Jeff

Janku has been delivering some excellent crosses inthe game against Turkey so far...

I agree what an upswing in his form... I've been watching it just because Janku is playing... definitely Milan should keep this guy. He had a tough season, but it seems like he has his good form back...

he was injured this season...

and in the first Czech match he played he was unfit...

glad to see him doing well now, because when he's fit and in form, he's deadly