Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by slifersd

I think Ancelotti will be fired sooner or later this season. Maybe not after Sunday's game but when things gets rough (and I believe things will be very rough for this team this season again), the management will have no choice but to sacrifice him. Now whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen because we don't know who the replacement will be. To me, firing Ancelotti may not be as bad a move as many here think it is for several reasons.

First, Ancelotti plays favorites with players. Guys like Seedorf never gets replaced no matter how bad they play. Seedorf seems to have a lot of power behind the scenes for no reason. This is not good for team chemistry because there are guys sitting on the bench who can contribute better but can't get the opportunity to do so.

Secondly, Ancelotti is lousy at developing young players. He has been here for 8 years now, and which young player did he develop over the years? Kaka is the only one jumps to my mind but Ancelotti didn't really develop him because Kaka was ready to play when he came over. With this team currently in the rebuilding mode, the ability to develop young players is one of the biggest key to our coach.

Third of all, Ancelotti has simply been here too long. Look, he is a great coach who has brought us many trophies, but at some point, enough is enough. The playres have simply tuned him out. Some of you guys have been talking about how our players aren't as motivated as they should in games, but isn't it the coach's job to motivate his players? Ancelotti no longer has any tricks up his sleeves to motivate his players and a fresh coach is needed if that is the case.

Lastly, firing Ancelotti will put all the pressure on the management to finally start doing their job right. You guys probably don't need to be reminded of how badly we performed on the market the last few seasons. Even this past summer, with our management supposedly went on a "spending spree", we actually only spent 5 million euros on the market. That is less than our transfer budget for the last few years and even less than some serie B team's budget. With this kind of investment, is it really wonder that our team can't challenge Inter for the Scudetto? Not to me. Sure, we brought in some nice players, but we still didn't deliver on the three positions we needed most, a finisher up front, a world class central defender and a goalkeeper. After all those years of underperforming, this team no longer had the luxury to wait for more investments. They need to make the right signings and they need to make them right now! But with Ancelotti in charge, the management can do whatever they want with the team because Carlo will never say anything. Without him, the new coach will most likely have more backbone and stand up to the management instead of getting pushed around all the time. And that, is better for the future of this team.

Of course, firing Ancelotti has its risk factors, especially if the replacement is Donadoni, who flat out stunk as a coach for the national team. But I just want to say that Ancelotti leaving could be a blessing in disguise and a move we desperately needed to get this team back in shape.

1) I agree, but at the same time you have to ask why a defender is not purchased this summer (forgive me about the quality of Senderos. I'm just not sure).

2) I think you are making the assumption that players on the bench can, and I doubt that too. Brocchi, Emerson ... The only one that I think he misses is Gourcuff, but even then Gourcuff's performance at MIlan is not great. You can say whatever you want about Gourcuff now; but remember he is playing in the French's league.

Nor is Milan a team that develops youth player. Milan is not Arsenal; developing youth player has almost never been the top priority of the Milan organization, until just probably recently.

I also disagree with you on this point about not develpoing youth player: Paloschi does get chance sto play last year, and also remember that he would have stayed had Shevchenko not come (don't tell me Ancelotti is the one asking to buy Sheva).

Being too long in Milan is a bad reason. Think about Ferguson.... and they won 2 cups last year.

And if carlo supposingly say nothing, why will other coach (and who are they) do?

But we'll see what happens....

J

Originally Posted by Jeff

1) I agree, but at the same time you have to ask why a defender is not purchased this summer (forgive me about the quality of Senderos. I'm just not sure).

2) I think you are making the assumption that players on the bench can, and I doubt that too. Brocchi, Emerson ... The only one that I think he misses is Gourcuff, but even then Gourcuff's performance at MIlan is not great. You can say whatever you want about Gourcuff now; but remember he is playing in the French's league.

Nor is Milan a team that develops youth player. Milan is not Arsenal; developing youth player has almost never been the top priority of the Milan organization, until just probably recently.

I also disagree with you on this point about not develpoing youth player: Paloschi does get chance sto play last year, and also remember that he would have stayed had Shevchenko not come (don't tell me Ancelotti is the one asking to buy Sheva).

Being too long in Milan is a bad reason. Think about Ferguson.... and they won 2 cups last year.

And if carlo supposingly say nothing, why will other coach (and who are they) do?

But we'll see what happens....

J

Why didn't we sign a great defender this summer? See my last point and you will understand why. The situation here is simple, Ancelotti gets no respect from the management. They simply do not care what he needs to build a good team, otherwise, Shevchenko wouldn't be back here and we would instead be cheering for Berbatov.

As far as developing young players is concerned, I agree with you on the point that Milan is not a team good at developing young talent. That has never been the Milan style to develop our own superstars, no matter how much Galliani believes so. But in the meantime, we also have to look at the fact that none of the young talent Ancelotti has had actually improved into stars under Ancelotti. Gourcuff was benched at all times; Pato is only a couple more bad performances away from giving his spot to Shevchenko permanently; Paloschi has already left; and who knows what is going to happen with the two young Uruaguay players. The management was stupid to make developing young players our primary market objective especially with Ancelotti's track record with young players.

When I wrote my post, I knew somebody would compare Ancelotti to Ferguson. And here is why Ancelotti cannot do what Ferguson did with Man U. In Manchester, Ferguson gets practically a brand new team every five to seven years. From the days of Ince to Beckham to C Ronaldo. That's three generations of players in less than 20 years. Here in Milan, we use one squad of players for over 10 years. ManU always has new and young players who are willing to listen to Ferguson's mentoring. Here in Milan, we have a whole roster of players who are sick and tired of listening Ancelotti's words. That is why we have to have new coaches every once in a while. You simply cannot have the same coach and players for that long and still hope they have enough passion for one another to fight hard every game.

Now onto the new coach. Based on my observations, not many coaches in today's soccer world allow their bosses to push them around as much as Ancelotti. Ancelotti just seems like he doesn't really care about what happens in the market. Now a new coach will have to protect his own repurations, which means they will have to get good results with this team. And to do that, he will need good players that fit into his style of play. That means, the coach will have to fight the management to get what he needs just for his personal reputation before anything else. Besides, most young coaches nowadays are more violatile to begin with (see Mourinho, Schuster, etc), so that's why I believe a new coach will be able to demand more players and support from the management.

Spaletti, Prandelli, and hear this loud MAZZARI !!!!!!!!!! Very good couches

Originally Posted by slifersd

Why didn't we sign a great defender this summer? See my last point and you will understand why. The situation here is simple, Ancelotti gets no respect from the management. They simply do not care what he needs to build a good team, otherwise, Shevchenko wouldn't be back here and we would instead be cheering for Berbatov.

As far as developing young players is concerned, I agree with you on the point that Milan is not a team good at developing young talent. That has never been the Milan style to develop our own superstars, no matter how much Galliani believes so. But in the meantime, we also have to look at the fact that none of the young talent Ancelotti has had actually improved into stars under Ancelotti. Gourcuff was benched at all times; Pato is only a couple more bad performances away from giving his spot to Shevchenko permanently; Paloschi has already left; and who knows what is going to happen with the two young Uruaguay players. The management was stupid to make developing young players our primary market objective especially with Ancelotti's track record with young players.

When I wrote my post, I knew somebody would compare Ancelotti to Ferguson. And here is why Ancelotti cannot do what Ferguson did with Man U. In Manchester, Ferguson gets practically a brand new team every five to seven years. From the days of Ince to Beckham to C Ronaldo. That's three generations of players in less than 20 years. Here in Milan, we use one squad of players for over 10 years. ManU always has new and young players who are willing to listen to Ferguson's mentoring. Here in Milan, we have a whole roster of players who are sick and tired of listening Ancelotti's words. That is why we have to have new coaches every once in a while. You simply cannot have the same coach and players for that long and still hope they have enough passion for one another to fight hard every game.

Now onto the new coach. Based on my observations, not many coaches in today's soccer world allow their bosses to push them around as much as Ancelotti. Ancelotti just seems like he doesn't really care about what happens in the market. Now a new coach will have to protect his own repurations, which means they will have to get good results with this team. And to do that, he will need good players that fit into his style of play. That means, the coach will have to fight the management to get what he needs just for his personal reputation before anything else. Besides, most young coaches nowadays are more violatile to begin with (see Mourinho, Schuster, etc), so that's why I believe a new coach will be able to demand more players and support from the management.

1. I really do'nt know why you attribute it to the coach for not bringing the player and not attribute it Berlusconi. I would like to see an example of a coach who will be daring enough to say, "No Shevchenko" and actually made it.

2. In response to youth player, I think the players you mentioned is largely unjustified.

First, how many coaches actually make their own stars from scratch? Messi? Then how about Kaka`? Wenger? But like you said Milan and Arsenal is different in that regard...

Second, Gourcuff is a mystery. I don't know why he didn't perform for MIlan at all, but I agree that perhaps Ancelotti could do a better job.

Third, Paloschi has nothing to do with Ancelotti. We all know why he left us (for now).

Fourth: I honestly don't know what is going on with him. If you look at the way he plays, and I maintain, he is like playing so casually at all. While I know that he is very comfortable dribbling with the ball, taking it seriously and treating each football game as serious matter is important. I think Pato still has a lot to learn, especially from a developmental perspective.

Also, Pato actually scored 9 goals last year. Exactly what happened to him during the summer? I don't know, but I'll be reluctant to attribute it to Ancelotti. He is definitely a star, but I suspect that he may not have the character (yet) to get it.

We all know success is more than just talent.

I hope that the two young Uruguary players will get more playing time.

The only reason Ancelotti should leave is that the players have no trust in him anymore. If the players continue to have trust in him, there is no reason to sack him at this moment. It will only make matter worse.

I like your point about Man U switching players etc. and people want to listen to the coach. I share with you such concern; but at the same time I also want to maintain that Man U has a very different philosophy from Man U: Milan treats the players like a family member, and this is well-known. Even if Ancelotti thinks that Brocchi sucks, Id on't think Ancelotti is the only person who has the power to let him go. Galliani and Berlusconi have the biggest say, I would dare to say.

The situation is different from Man U, but let's not go into that route then. My conclusion is that Ancelotti cannot do what Ferguson did not because Ancelotti is not capable but because the way the system is built. Ferguson might have had left Milan a few years ago then if he were to coach Milan and realized the way Milan worked...

I agree with you about managers being more volatile, but I also want to point out that not many owners can actually stand them. Morinho is already one prime example. Is it better or worse for Chelsea last year? We all know how it all went.

Sacking Ancelotti hoping that something will happen is a bad idea. It's without a long-term vision. If both Ancelotti and Gallini (and Berlusconi) has a long-term reason for sacking Ancelotti and brining Donadoni or whoever in and make the team more successful than now, I'm all ears.

The key, honestly, is about our defense. Now, what makes our defense so vulnerable --- I think that's the key question.

Sacking Ancelotti is like slapping right in front of Gallini and Bersluconi, because it means that they have done something wrong in the transfer market.

We have already discussed why it is important to bring in a defender. Did we? No. How did you know Ancelotti didn't raise voice to the management? Not in the news doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

If it's glaringly obvious that we lack a WC defender, I don't see how it's not glaringly obvious to Berlu and Galliani.

If you look at our record for the last two games, we let in 4 goals in total (with Abbiati btw; why Milan didn't buy a new GK?) and scored only once, NOT A STRIKER.

Then consider the number of CHANCES Milan has created against the opponents, and how many times the strikers actually score.

If I'm angry, I'm angry because Shevachenko, Pato, Inzaghi didn't score. Pato could have done a really much better job, but so far he is not. He himself is like not listening to instruction and just wondering around. We don't know how Sheva will turn out, but just think about if Inzaghi has scored the couple of good goals. Just think what would have happened.

I think the strikers now owe a lot to Milan.

(a word on Ancelotti: I do agree that he screws up Gilardino. I really think that he mismanaged him OR GIlardino simply didn't suit with Ancelotti's game plan).

will you fellas chill, its been one game already and people are already talking about new coaches and how the strikers have failed miserably. cut them some slack, give them at least 2 more games, AT LEAST, before you guys become so judgmental..

take it easy, we will score big next game

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

take it easy, we will score big next game

3-4 or 3-5 for Milan.

This probably doesn't belong on this thread, but I'm watching the Parma Anconna game and Paloschi just scored a nice little header. It was point blank and off a nice cross, but still very nice. Aside from that, he's had a couple of other opportunities early in the game.

I can't help but feel that this kid is something special. He's fearless! At only 18, he demonstrates confidence and maturity. And it got me thinking again about that co-ownership deal. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all. With a co-ownership deal, Parma will put a lot of effort into improving this kid so they can maximize Milan's buyout. If it were just a loan, Parma would potentially give him less playing time. There's hopefully some sort of max bid that Parma can make so Milan would only have to submit that max plus 1 Euro to buy him back. Anyway, I really hope Palo becomes the next great striker, not only for Milan's benefit, but for the Azzurri as well.

Me too...we've seen carlo's ability to develop young players, and i think that at the end of the day it is best for milan to ship them out to other teams and hopefully bring them back at the right time. I like palo's enthusiasm and with some time and better tactical training, he should be a very strong addition.

Gorky was amazing today also,with a bit of luck we will have a WC player next year

^^ Did you see the game? I tried to watch it but stream was crappy. I'll have to download it when it's available. I know he assisted the goal though.

Originally Posted by kastriot

Gorky was amazing today also,with a bit of luck we will have a WC player next year

where does he fit in though?

Originally Posted by Russo-Neri

This probably doesn't belong on this thread, but I'm watching the Parma Anconna game and Paloschi just scored a nice little header. It was point blank and off a nice cross, but still very nice. Aside from that, he's had a couple of other opportunities early in the game.

I can't help but feel that this kid is something special. He's fearless! At only 18, he demonstrates confidence and maturity. And it got me thinking again about that co-ownership deal. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all. With a co-ownership deal, Parma will put a lot of effort into improving this kid so they can maximize Milan's buyout. If it were just a loan, Parma would potentially give him less playing time. There's hopefully some sort of max bid that Parma can make so Milan would only have to submit that max plus 1 Euro to buy him back. Anyway, I really hope Palo becomes the next great striker, not only for Milan's benefit, but for the Azzurri as well.

What bothers me about Paloschi is that the majority of his shots are towards the centre of the goal. He isn't going to get much for a top league striker if he doesn't learn to pick his spot

P.S. Quraresme is PURE CRAP.... Glad he didn't come here

Originally Posted by kastriot

Gorky was amazing today also,with a bit of luck we will have a WC player next year

I don't know if one year would be enough for him to go back to Milan. He needs tons of matches to gain experience and make him mature so he will be able to play consistently. It's just so sad to remember how Milan boards did to him by not loaning him first before he came to Milan. He had only 1 year of experience as starting line-up and it's in Ligue 1 (not Serie A) and suddenly Galliani thought (or still think) that he was wonder kid or world class talent player like Messi or Pato. Poor Gourcuff!

About Ancelotti not giving enough oppurtunities to younger players:

Its not only Ancelotti but many Italian Managers who have the same approach when it comes to overprotecting and delaying the proggession of youth players.

A couple examples who come to mind are Lippi and Ranieri, who are both prefering older players to youth.

Lippi for instance hasn't added any youth into the Italian set-up despite having a large crop of young talented players like Balotelli,G.Rossi,Giovinco. Instead he has opted for Gilardinho??? While Capello on the other hand is being hailed as a savior for Introducing Walcot to the International arena.

The only Italian Manager that comes to mind which can be adequetely compared to Ancelotti in terms of squad and the curse of replacing old idols with youth is Roberto Mancini, Who did not hesitate to introduce young players to replace the old gaurd.

Despite all the critisism he has revcieved one thing that he did for Inter is replace the old Gaurd with youth. Vieri,Toldo, Favali, Materazzi, were all eithier offloaded or benched to accomodate for the youthful players. Not many managers in Italy would have had the balls to throw out Vieri(an Inter Legend) to make room for Adriano, bench Toldo for Cesar, And even rearange J.Zanetti's position at RB to introduce Maicon. He even DEPENDED on Balottleli over strikers like Crespo and Suazo.

Ancelotti on the other hand, hasn't intoduced anyone. I dont understand how a player like Gourcoff was able to dictate Frances attack (and recieve man of the match ovation) against Serbia but was barely used under Ancelotti???

Originally Posted by Mystik

^^ Did you see the game? I tried to watch it but stream was crappy. I'll have to download it when it's available. I know he assisted the goal though.

Correction: He didn't assist the goal after all...watching the game at the moment.

Originally Posted by Siregar

I don't know if one year would be enough for him to go back to Milan. He needs tons of matches to gain experience and make him mature so he will be able to play consistently. It's just so sad to remember how Milan boards did to him by not loaning him first before he came to Milan. He had only 1 year of experience as starting line-up and it's in Ligue 1 (not Serie A) and suddenly Galliani thought (or still think) that he was wonder kid or world class talent player like Messi or Pato. Poor Gourcuff!

That doesn't matter because in his first season he was playing on par with the rest of the midfield (even better than some when he just started) yet didn't get the playing time he deserved. It's just a matter of the coach not treating all players equally. Good to see him doing well elsewhere.