Genoa VS Milan 14/9/08

Rosoneri_11, I agree with you, but you must also consider this. Maldini is not supposed to be playing week in week out. He is there as a symbol, legend.

Nesta and Senderos will start over him ANY TIME when any of them fit. Maldini is supposed to play like once in two or three weeks, as a true back up.

Now we are using him as a starting XI.

is it his fault? Of course not. Is it Carlo's fault that he fields Maldini? Of course not. Fielding Maldini is still better than a primaveera.

Nobody is idiot when they say they want to see Maldini play every year; none of them is expecting Maldini to play every single game. If we see that happening, that means something is REALLY wrong with our defense.

Now back to the coach: Remember when Ancelotti came he was famous of what? DEFENDING. 1-0; 1-0; 1-0; 1-0... and bear in mind people complain about him not being offensive.

Most of these people are now gone. but a few are still around (you are not around given the time you join MM!), making fun of the summer mercato and saying that Ancelotti is doing a bad job because he can't defend and make Milan into this screw-up situation.

Slap on Carlo's face, slap on their own face.

At the end of the day you ask me whose fault that is. And I think privately we all know the answer:

It's Berlusconi's unfaded love for Sheva, R80, R99... IT's Galliani obsession with R80, money, advertisement, and more money.

Is it a mistake not to buy a world-class defender? OF COURSE. Can we do something about it NOW? No.

So what can we do? Figure out where the most difficult problem is and solve it.

The problem is the defense; so let's start with defense. Play slow; play like the way MIlan used to play. Slow, seemed tired, then boom; all of a sudden hit you on the head.

Start from there and regain balance. That will be my strategy.

I read an article from the chinese website saying that Carlo should go just beacuse he has been around too long, quoting Costacurta's saying that "there is a cycle with manager and it's 5-yr. By the end of the 5-yr he should go".

Then the writer moved on and said that despite after the 5 year cycle Ancelotti still somehow managed to win one more CL trophy; which is great for him but it's time to let him go.

But at the end it's time for a change; Donadoni is waiting and so is Rijkard. But there is one fatal flaw with the argument? so can D & R solve the problems? That's the key. Who is willing to come in and just make a change?

Is it worth the try? It's going to take some time REGARDLESS of who you brought in, but is it worth the try?

That's another thing the management, and Ancelotti, has to make.

(btw, Donadoni? I'll prefer R over D any time. D is still not yet a world-class coach. The way he played with Italy already showed that).

And if Ancelotti continued to fail after a month, then he should leave. His last excuse is that there was no time to train; I agree, but if things didn't still work out by Winter, then he should definitely go.

I think alot of you forget how our pre-season actually was, and no I'm not talking about the results. Players like: R80, Pato, Pippo, Boriello, Sheva, Nesta etc lost the ENTIRE pre-season due to injuries/late transfer/Olympics. Pre-season is extremely important for many aspects, from gelling the team/tactics to actually making a form-curve that fits the season to come. You don't get this from playing in the Olympics or being injuried. Oh, and god knows what kind of pre-season Sheva had in Chelsea, since they managed to ruin maybe Europes best striker the moment he left the airport in London. If you could fix these things and make the players get into shape in a week, no one would have the standard long pre-season. This is a mayor factor into our problems, no doubt, and frankly we haven't caught a break (things never going our way) in a long time i feel. The players couldn't stand the 3 matches in a week they got with international duties, and no one can blame them given the above reason. They had nothing to give in the match, and that is something no one in Milan could do anything about. You can say that we played the wrong tactics, the wrong players or whatever, but given the amount of effort that basically every player that played (including the subs) gave, I don't see how that wouldve changed anything.

Oh and I dont think Ancelotti wouldve gotten fired in Man Utd with these results. Just look at Ferguson, so many years in the club, and he has had plenty of dissapointing spells aswell. If I remember correctly Man Utd started the Premier League poorly last season and lost alot of points against weaker teams like Reading, and look at how their season ended. There is still hope for this season, with or without Ancelotti.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Rosoneri_11, I agree with you, but you must also consider this. Maldini is not supposed to be playing week in week out. He is there as a symbol, legend.

Nesta and Senderos will start over him ANY TIME when any of them fit. Maldini is supposed to play like once in two or three weeks, as a true back up.

Now we are using him as a starting XI.

is it his fault? Of course not. Is it Carlo's fault that he fields Maldini? Of course not. Fielding Maldini is still better than a primaveera.

Nobody is idiot when they say they want to see Maldini play every year; none of them is expecting Maldini to play every single game. If we see that happening, that means something is REALLY wrong with our defense.

Now back to the coach: Remember when Ancelotti came he was famous of what? DEFENDING. 1-0; 1-0; 1-0; 1-0... and bear in mind people complain about him not being offensive.

Most of these people are now gone. but a few are still around (you are not around given the time you join MM!), making fun of the summer mercato and saying that Ancelotti is doing a bad job because he can't defend and make Milan into this screw-up situation.

Slap on Carlo's face, slap on their own face.

At the end of the day you ask me whose fault that is. And I think privately we all know the answer:

It's Berlusconi's unfaded love for Sheva, R80, R99... IT's Galliani obsession with R80, money, advertisement, and more money.

Is it a mistake not to buy a world-class defender? OF COURSE. Can we do something about it NOW? No.

So what can we do? Figure out where the most difficult problem is and solve it.

The problem is the defense; so let's start with defense. Play slow; play like the way MIlan used to play. Slow, seemed tired, then boom; all of a sudden hit you on the head.

Start from there and regain balance. That will be my strategy.

You are right Jeff Maldini is playing because the coach choose him.He has the fault.But also Maldini must realise that he isn't 25 and he can't help the team like before.He must notice how old is he and his fault on the game with Genoa or other teams and realised that he is doing bad for the team playing, and not helping.
And of course the coach must not choose him to play, because the problem starts from there.
As you said Berlu is behind averything.He rules Milan and he is doing what ever he wants.He wanted Sheva and R80 and not a WC defender and here are the results from the first 2 games.
Now that i rethink it again if we should suck Carlo, i would say so what any coach under Berlu wouldn't do any big change he will be the same puppy like carlo.
Imagine if we had Mourinho........

Rosoneri_11, the coach chooses to play him, othewrise WHO CAN PLAY if MALDINI DOESN'T?

Kaladze? How many times did he get grilled during pre-season?
Nesta? Out.
Zambrotta as DC? NO way.
Janku as DC? No way.
Favalli? Please...
Sedneros: Out for injury.
Bonera? Played, horribly.
Antonini? as a DC?

So that leaves us... Darmian? Pasini? Which say you?

The only feasible option is Kaladze: is a "damn if you do, damn if you don't".

And imagine Darmian or Pasini played and played horribly, now what? Who do you trust most out of these four: Darmian, Pasini, Kaladze, or Maldini?

Great points, Jeff. The only thing I'm thinking was the question you raised, "Would Donadoni or Rijkaard make any difference?". I dont know, but after 7 years of Carlo--same formation, same players doing the same things, same way of playing, same excuses after we lose, same everything---it might be refreshing to get somebody new in, somebody with new ideas. I am not sold on Donadoni, but Rijkaard could potentially come in and sparkle up our football. I dont know, if say, he prefered a different formation, or bought a winger in the winter mercato, or even benched so-called regulars like Seedorf and Pirlo---I'm not advocating that, but that may be the change we need---a whole fresh mind-set and whole new set-up----even if it's with the same group of players because the players are world class.

I dont know, but I'm getting a feeling that we might be seeing Rijkaard and Milan and Carlo at Roma at some stage....remember, you heard it here first!! Where's Zlatanov when you need him?

Originally Posted by Jeff

Rosoneri_11, the coach chooses to play him, othewrise WHO CAN PLAY if MALDINI DOESN'T?

Kaladze? How many times did he get grilled during pre-season?
Nesta? Out.
Zambrotta as DC? NO way.
Janku as DC? No way.
Favalli? Please...
Sedneros: Out for injury.
Bonera? Played, horribly.
Antonini? as a DC?

So that leaves us... Darmian? Pasini? Which say you?

The only feasible option is Kaladze: is a "damn if you do, damn if you don't".

And imagine Darmian or Pasini played and played horribly, now what? Who do you trust most out of these four: Darmian, Pasini, Kaladze, or Maldini?

I would pick any time Kaladze, because he is more younger than Maldini.He can run more than him and he can play more than him.He is a good defender,maybe he has not the experience Maldini has or he is not a legend like him, but he can help us more than him.
And im not saying this because of the last day match.After the night of Instabul i had make it clear to myself that Maldini can't help Milan anymore.Thats why every single year after 2005 im trying to tell that he can't help us anymore.
He must retire, he can't help us anymore,sorry about that but...he is finished.

I think Galliani summed it up best with his comment that in 8 games since July, we've lost 7. I've not been able to follow Milan too much recently as I'm without the net and no tv coverage, but right now we're an embarassment.

With all due respect to Carlo, who's a great manager, I really don't see why he's still with us. In the past we had a set structure or plan with how the club was managed, now we seem much less dominant in the business side of things. Galliani in the past has said that at Milan the key players have a major role at the club and aren't likely to leave, before them the manager will go first (Galliani can be quoted on this in the Maldini movie). We've always worked in cycles, the club is built to work like this and much of the staff, who are ex-Milan players are used to this structure (Billy being the most vocal of this as Jeff has quoted from the Chinese site).

I simply don't understand why we want to stick with Carlo like Man U with Alex and Arsenal with Arsene (whose record by Milan's standard isn't good enough imo), we've never done it before and it's our old mentality of working in cycles and building different Milan's with different coaches that made us the most winningest club.

**** it, just play a 4231, with Pirlo Flamini as the two, and Ronnie (Seedorf), Kaka, Pato as the 3 with Borri up front. The Genoa game should prove to just about everyone that the Xmas tree is dead and needs to be thrown out of the house. It has become stale and predictable, and defences know how to stop it (pressure Pirlo, frustrate Kaka with rough tackles, and mark the hell out of the lone striker). We need more options. I still think in those fifteen minutes at the start of the second half with Bologna, we had the answer. We played brilliantly. I'm sure its going to be our standard tactic from now until Carlo is fired. I don't see the point in playing the Xmas tree anymore.

Ancelotti must go, Berlusconi and Galliani must go, we need a revolution we need someone who is not afraid of investing in the squad, more importantly we need someone who wants to WIN! someone who is hungry for success.

Originally Posted by MVBasten

Oh and I dont think Ancelotti wouldve gotten fired in Man Utd with these results. Just look at Ferguson, so many years in the club, and he has had plenty of dissapointing spells aswell. If I remember correctly Man Utd started the Premier League poorly last season and lost alot of points against weaker teams like Reading, and look at how their season ended. There is still hope for this season, with or without Ancelotti.

I have given credit where credit is due but i oso lay the blame where it should be.. Carlo has been quite clueless in all honesty about tactics these past few years.. none worse than that Favalli over Antonini or Janku.. thx for those 2 Champs League but i think its time to go Carlo.. ByeBye.. With the form KaKa was in the last time we won it, any coach would prolly have been given credit just by playing him.. it didn't take a genius to do that...

Btw, Man Utd has never been in this kinda crap hole we are in.. they werent in the Uefa Cup even at their worst this decade.. and when was the last time you heard of Fergie having a 7game losing streak?

Originally Posted by Nero83

Ancelotti must go, Berlusconi and Galliani must go, we need a revolution we need someone who is not afraid of investing in the squad, more importantly we need someone who wants to WIN! someone who is hungry for success

are you so desperate ?

Reazq was right, we can complain how pathetic Favalli is, bla.. bla.. bla.., we must be satisfied with it, at least until the winter mercato is open. Carletto's scheme last night raised my eyebrow right from the start. I didn't know about Jankulovski's fitness, but even if he wasn't 100%, it would give the team much more solidity if Zambrotta were played as LB and Bonera on the right side. He was two steps behind his opponent, and toward the end of the match, so was Paolo. And with this problem at the backline, it's understandable if Carletto sticks to play with 2 DMs (Flamini and Max) instead of 2 strikers like many of us suggested.

But what puzzles me the most is Dinho's postion. Many times I saw him played around the midfield, about 40 m away from the penalty box. I've seen him played like this during the Olympics, and he failed to shine. He needs to be played farther up front IMO. He plays his best when he's near the opponents penalty box, with his dribble or tricky pass

Originally Posted by Peachtot

are you so desperate ?

well after watching a very poor pre-season and a very poor start to the league campaign, after the game ended i just wanted to pick up a gun and blow my brains out.