Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by mrki

Wenger is not a chicken who sells players coz he wants, and doesnt want to buy new ones. That is a crap written by media. Arsenal is not lead by Wenger but by people who invest money into the club. Wenger was furious when Flamini went, and he simple needed to let go of Vieira, Henry, Hleb etc.

This quote is totally irrational (like the team Milan is building ... if we believe Moggi, the most successfull lier and cheater in football world), especially coming from you !!

Don't you bash Ancelotti for exactly the same thing ??

So, if I understand like it has to be understood, Ancelotti is nothing because he can't say anything to Berlusconi and because he doesn't get what he wants and stays, but Wenger is a genius despite he does exactly the same thing in a smaller club than Milan with, surely, less egocentric "managers" ??

And don't forget that in England, coaches are also managers, not like in Italy, so if tomorrow Wenger comes to Milan (what I really don't hope), he'll just be a coach who'll have to shut up.

I can't understand why some people here underestimate Wenger. He did GREAT job with Arsenal. When MU 'owned' the league, Wenger was the one who broke that tradition (The Gunner competed with MU every year) AND he did with a team that not was supported (money) like MU were supported, for example.

Make it difference between Maurinho (or even Ferguson) and Wenger. Maurinho and Ferguson had the money to buy certain players they want but not Wenger. Wenger did have money for transfer but not as big as MU especially Chelsea (under Maurinho). Beside that thing, Wenger can't also stop his players moving out from London but coach like Maurinho and Fergie (because of their clubs' superiority in money) can stop players leaving out their clubs. This thing made big difference for Arsenal in the last 4-5 years when their big stars left the club (either moved to other club or retired).

Someone mentioned that Wenger's mentality is only for UEFA Cup team and I think this is pure absurd. Had Carlo won CL thropy when he came to Milan?

The problem Wenger has, like others have said, that his character (with respect to transfer policy) is just like Carlo. He can only accept what his boss tells (gives) him.

Carlo is not a coach, as a coach's job is to improve players and develop, and I don't see that in Milan. He's a great manager, tactically a bit naive at times, and stubborn with playing any youth players, unless his hand is forced, but not a great coach.

Originally Posted by sheva-gila

and its on channel4 , he just confessed a desire that one day he would like te be a milan coach

Leo just does not seems like the type of Coach we need at the moment. He will be another push over like Carlo.
Having said that, he will be more creative than Carlo, like playing with Two strikers from the start. But at the end, Leo does not and will not have the respect of guys like Seedorf and others.

To be honest, Wenger is a GREAT PLAYER developer. IF he actually can keep players like Henry, Helb, Ashley COle, Flamini and others, Arsenal will be challenging the league. What Wenger is good at is finding the right players for his system, or changing the player's abilitiy to fit into his system. Something that Carlo can't do. For example, there is nothing wrong with the X'mas tree formation, however, our players just can't fit into that system naturally. On top of that, some of our players(maybe due to their exp and pride) refuse to do what Carlo had asked them to do on the pitch, since they all know that Carlo will play them as long as they are not injured.
Thats the difference between Wenger and Carlo. As of now, players under Wenger still listen to him and do what he said on the pitch, whereas guys like Seedorf is just making sure he does not look bad on the pitch.

Personally, I think Wenger is a better coach, b/c in game wise, his changes are great and he demands his players to do what he plans on the pitch. Carlo in game decision are crap, may I remind you of what he did against Pool a few yrs ago, subbing out Crespo(who scored 2 goals), and since a few yrs back, Carlo just kept playing players by their name only instead of quality.

To be the best coach for a team like Milan are Capello, JM and RB. As they are coachese that will sit their players if they are not performing well, good at max. players strength and great in game adjustment.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

since they all know that Carlo will play them as long as they are not injured.

This is the worst thing from Carlo (beside his fear to try something new). No need to tell more, the line-up/formation tells itself.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

This quote is totally irrational (like the team Milan is building ... if we believe Moggi, the most successfull lier and cheater in football world), especially coming from you !!

Don't you bash Ancelotti for exactly the same thing ??

So, if I understand like it has to be understood, Ancelotti is nothing because he can't say anything to Berlusconi and because he doesn't get what he wants and stays, but Wenger is a genius despite he does exactly the same thing in a smaller club than Milan with, surely, less egocentric "managers" ??

And don't forget that in England, coaches are also managers, not like in Italy, so if tomorrow Wenger comes to Milan (what I really don't hope), he'll just be a coach who'll have to shut up.

First, lets remove the hostile tunes from our dialogles... hahaha!

Moggi - Luciano Moggi is ( and Im sure 95% of people in this forum will say it, and most valuebly people like Tony29, Giovanni and Giancarlo ) one of the best experts in football in the past 30 years. The fact he is a liar and a mafioso doesnt mean a thing when we talk about his mercato and tactical accomplishments. Players Moggi took for Juve ( most of the transfers were simply brilliant and he RARELLy missed with invested money ), the way HE turned Zidane into central attacking midfielder ( that is PURE truth, you can check it if you can find it, I dont lie I swear, Zizou said so. ), the way he choose coaches for Juve and sold players when they needed to be sold. Moggi is a man that knows everything about football. Subjective feelčing that we dont like him in irelevant in that matter.

Ancelotti is a coward ( in my oppinoin, which doesnt touch yOU, but speaks directly on thesubject . Wenger vs Carlo -), and with the players he gets he doesnt do as much as he needs to do. Wenger does much more with the quality of the players he has on his disposal and makes 100% of each player he has in his team, while players in Milan fall like they have been playing football and thought about tactical setup for the first time in their lives.

Talking about league titles: You need to understand that in EPL Arsenal is NOT a top club like Milan in Italy is. United, L'pool and Shelsea are. With L'pool being a sleepy giant and most prestigous club in England.

Ancelotti had ONE scudetto: With Parma he simply needed to take it and he blew it away, with Juve he was 9th ( 9th with Moggi's Juve! ) and now Milan will end X-mas season with -9 after completely missplaied games vs Torino, Cagliari, Lecce, Palermo, Bologna etc. Juve loss is not a disaster, its Juve in Torino and they are always favorites there.

Imagine Wenger having Milan team and not selling any players each summer, but just bringing 3 young guys ( Silva, LB and one midfielder ). And the rest of the team stays as it is. The important for coaches is that they get maximum out of their players, and I dont think Ancelotti is able to do so.

Managers in EPL does not mean they run the club, its not the right translation for that manner.

Originally Posted by mrki

Ancelotti had ONE scudetto...

All seems to make good sense except this piece. We know he also won the CL more often than Wenger, reaches final more often (and screw up more often too lol), though I agree that Ancelotti may not be the best league performer as far as Milan is concerned.

Originally Posted by mrki

First, lets remove the hostile tunes from our dialogles... hahaha!

No hostility from me against you
If you think there is, so I said something in a wrong way and you would be very nice to tell me where (to allow me to change that), and if it is because I often reply you, it's just that we almost always disagree !! lol

About Moggi, ok, it was just a joke, umh not really a joke, just irony, he made "amazing" job in Juventus in the choice of players, but he made it in a way that cost so much to this club (Serie B, players sold) and so, I clearly can't take him as an example in anything.

Originally Posted by mrki

Ancelotti is a coward ( in my oppinoin, which doesnt touch yOU, but speaks directly on thesubject . Wenger vs Carlo -), and with the players he gets he doesnt do as much as he needs to do. Wenger does much more with the quality of the players he has on his disposal and makes 100% of each player he has in his team, while players in Milan fall like they have been playing football and thought about tactical setup for the first time in their lives.

But if he is a coward because he doesn't get any of the players he asks for and doesn't leave, so Wenger is a coward too ?!

Anyway, about these two coaches, I'll explain later in this same reply ...

Originally Posted by mrki

Imagine Wenger having Milan team and not selling any players each summer, but just bringing 3 young guys ( Silva, LB and one midfielder ). And the rest of the team stays as it is. The important for coaches is that they get maximum out of their players, and I dont think Ancelotti is able to do so.

Managers in EPL does not mean they run the club, its not the right translation for that manner.

Here comes my vision of Ancelotti and Wenger ...
You say that Wenger would do amazing things if he was in Milan by bringing our best players and adding young ones each year ... what I think about that is that it would be impossible, the best players, the ones who have the most developped ego generally too, would leave the club with Wenger as a coach. Henry didn't leave because he was more paid in Barcelona, Gallas won't leave to be paid more (even if for Gallas, the problem is also himself being totally stupid lol), etc.

For me, Wenger can develop players, like Gabriel said, and he's even probably the best coach to develop young players in the world ... but he can't manage a complete team with young promising players and older established ones. He is ok with young ones, probably because of authority of something like that, but that doesn't work with older ones, they don't need another "father".

Ancelotti is the contrary, he knows how to manage established players in a same team, but he gets some problems with the younger ones ...

Actually, if we replace Ancelotti today, it would be to find a coach who is a fusion between Wenger and Ancelotti ... the most complete coach I think.

And about our loss against Juventus, I won't agree again with you mrki (sic, I thought we would agree about this match, but apparely, not lol), I think this defeat is very important ... not because we lost 4-2 in Turin, but because I never saw "grinta", motivation, etc in our players (even if some of our best players missed, but it's not an excuse), it was the first time I saw our team like that against one our main rivals, we played great or at least we played with a lot of motivation against Inter and Napoli, but we did nothing against Juventus ... I end there, it has nothing to do in a mercato topic anyway, sorry.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Here comes my vision of Ancelotti and Wenger ...
You say that Wenger would do amazing things if he was in Milan by bringing our best players and adding young ones each year ... what I think about that is that it would be impossible, the best players, the ones who have the most developped ego generally too, would leave the club with Wenger as a coach. Henry didn't leave because he was more paid in Barcelona, Gallas won't leave to be paid more (even if for Gallas, the problem is also himself being totally stupid lol), etc.

For me, Wenger can develop players, like Gabriel said, and he's even probably the best coach to develop young players in the world ... but he can't manage a complete team with young promising players and older established ones. He is ok with young ones, probably because of authority of something like that, but that doesn't work with older ones, they don't need another "father".

Did you already watch Arsenal under Wenger when his players were like Tony Adams, David Seeman (spelling?), Emmanuel Pettit, etc?

Your bold part I think is really absurd. Wenger did win the EPL couple of times with a combined squad (old and young players). Like in the year he win EPL without any single lost.

The problem Wenger has in Arsenal, like you said, are that he has same mentality with Carlo with respect of transfer policy made by his boss and Arsenal don't have money as much as other team so he can't stop his best players going out from London and also can't buy experienced players like other big club spending their money on world class players.

It's like Real Madrid or Chelsea wanted Kaka. They (Real and Chelsea) have the money for Milan (a huge offer), they have money for Kaka (super salary) and they have prestige (Real Madrid). But Milan have 'bumper' to prevent Kaka's transfer because Milan are the same club as Real or Chelsea. Milan have money for Kaka (big salary) and also have prestige like Real Madrid.

Make the same case for Arsenal. Arsenal players will easily go to other club like Barca, Real or Chelsea if these clubs offer huge amount of money for players (and also big salary) except the players have no intention to leave Arsenal (this is a different case, like Fabregas' case). Arsenal also don't have prestige like Real Madrid, Barca even Juventus.

From channel4 :

One of Galliani's comment : “We think that we have an ultra-competitive squad, but six or seven injuries is a lot."

LOL Galliani!

Originally Posted by Siregar

Did you already watch Arsenal under Wenger when his players were like Tony Adams, David Seeman (spelling?), Emmanuel Pettit, etc?

Your bold part I think is really absurd. Wenger did win the EPL couple of times with a combined squad (old and young players). Like in the year he win EPL without any single lost.

A good manager doesn't only win, he's able to keep a good atmosphere in the team ... and, as far as my memory goes, there's always been problems.

Having such a old squad, its not surprising we have so many injuries...

Bundesliga
15.12.2008 13:18:44
Vedad Ibisevic has scored 18 goals in the first half of the season
Ibisevic - the goalgetter
He scores and scores and scores. If Vedad Ibisevic carries on like that, even Gerd Müller's all-time record could be threatened.


1899 Hoffenheim's Bosnian goalgetter has scored 18 goals in the first half of the season and could at least come close to the 40 goals Müller scored for FC Bayern in 1971/72.

Müller, who had scored an all-time record 365 Bundesliga goals in total, reckons that Ibisevic has the quality to break his record.

"Not normal"

Hoffenheim coach Ralf Rangnick claims that ibisevic is more prolific than anyone he has seen during his whole career.

Ibisevic, who had joined Hoffenheim from Alemannia Aachen, is struggling to explain why he scores so many goals: "That's not normal!"


Berlu and Galliani should move heaven and earth to sign this season's deadliest striker !

Am I the only one here that is glad Sanderous got hurt by just kicking a ball last nite.
Now if Galli and Berlu still don't see this guy is useless for the rest of the season, I don't know what will.
With NEsta and Bonera out for at least another two months, Sanderous is useless, and Kaladaze's mind is off having a vacation. Milan is only left with Maldini and Favalli as CB, with Darmian. Well, sounds like Zapata is coming to Milan to me.