Winter Mercato

Generally speaking (maybe not really in Gourcuff's case) I think what you say has only a chance of working if there is a North American system where teams have 'junior' or smaller affiliations or may be kind of like Spain (Barca B for example).
If 'big' teams have to wait for ready and open spots to add the very best in young players then this will further drive prices higher. The smaller team knows the big team needs one now or very very soon.

Originally Posted by brk

You guys should go back and see the exact quote and question regarding Gourcuff that was asked of Carlo. He was asked a specific question, can Gourcuff replace Kaka. He said no, he's slower and less dynamic. Who among us will disagree with that statement? He then said that whatever playing time Gourcuff got last year, is what he deserved based on his effort in games and training. We don't know what goes on in training really, and his performances in games weren't inspiring at all. It just looked like he was just in Milan at the wrong time. Maybe his time isn't even next year, maybe after the world cup, when there will be room for him to play.

My problem with Carlo's statement isn't really that he might've been right. Of course Yoann is slower than Kaká, but what's the point of saying that he isn't good enough to replace Kaká? Gourcuff is still a Milan player and one that the club could very well risk losing. So why go out there and practically insult him? I said practically because it might not be considered an insult to call someone slow compared to Kaká - but still if Milan wants Gourcuff back they might consider complimenting him, rather than say he wasn't/isn't good enough.

Originally Posted by brk

Well, yes you're right. That's the why you should never buy a quality young prospect if you already have an established player in his late 20's, like Kaka. You buy a young guy when you have a player at the end of his peak years, like Inzaghi and now Pato replacing him. Kaka replaced Rui Costa (although a bit too quick for my tastes... I love Rui Costa). The problem with Gourcuff is that he was brought in to kind of replace Seedorf, but the man seems to just keep getting better with age.

edit: Young players should play in smaller teams, not make the jump to a big team too soon; like Gourcuff.

The only exception to this rule is when the young player is so good that he commands a place in the team on merit and not as some sort of investment for the future; Cristiano Ronaldo and Pato.

Yes ideally big clubs should only bring in young players who are good enough to go straight into the first XI. There's just two problems: First of all you never know exactly how good a player is in your team until he plays there. Gourcuff could have turned out great for us, and Pato might not have - the difference between succes and failure can be so small. So you have to take a gamble some times (which leads me to my second point)... because if you don't take a risk you'll lose out. What if we hadn't signed Pato 18 months ago, he might've exploded for some other team and then we could've payed three times as much for him at the age of 25.

About Gourcuff, Bordeaux has until April to pay the option ... and allow Gourcuff to choose.

But Bordeaux will never have enough money in April as they won't know if they will be qualified for the next CL ... so if they can't pay before April, it will be Milan to choose if they accept any offer coming from any club.

And this statement you all speak about was done before the game against Fiorentina (we already spoke about it) !!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

About Gourcuff, Bordeaux has until April to pay the option ... and allow Gourcuff to choose.

But Bordeaux will never have enough money in April as they won't know if they will be qualified for the next CL ... so if they can't pay before April, it will be Milan to choose if they accept any offer coming from any club.

And this statement you all speak about was done before the game against Fiorentina (we already spoke about it) !!

They are a decent second now, second is automatic into group stages isn't it? Even if they end up lower what's stopping them from finding the money in April when they can be sure they can make it back and more in June if they sell him? Only 2 month span.

I am kind of speculating and taking the negative view of course but still...

Originally Posted by boring

Most of us would. But I can understand how difficult how it is to pick a team from players of that quality. 5 to be picked from Kaka, Seedorf, Pirlo, R80, Flamini, Gattuso and Gourcuff.. it's not easy.

I'd add Ambrosini, Janku and probably Beckham (with the way things are looking) to that list too.

Either way, it may seem difficult on paper, but right now I wouldn't say it is all that difficult. For a start, I don't think either Seedorf or Ambrosini have played well or consistently well enough to earn a starting spot, so I'd take them out of the picture completely from the off. Instead, I see them as ideal players to come off the bench as they're highly experienced quality players who can make a great impact in such a role.

That leaves Janku, Pirlo, Kaka, R80, Rino, Flamini, Beckham and Gourcuff. For me Pirlo, Kaka and Rino (well, atm based on his form earlier this season) are the first on the team sheet in midfield/attack due to their influence in the side (they make up a strong spine to the side).

This leaves us with choosing either Flamini, Janku, R80, Beckham or Gourcuff for 2 spots. Though I recognise Beckham's ability when passing the ball, as well as his workrate and tactical discipline, I don't think he's any better than Flamini or Janku in his role (covering the space left by the wingback). His passing is his biggest asset, but with Pirlo already it isn't imperative we have this ability in the role (nor is his crossing an issue as we don't play with forwards that are likely to take much advantage of this).

So this leaves Gourcuff either fighting for a spot with Janku and Flamini in midfield or R80 further up the field. Considering Janku and Flamini are both very capable I'd probably look at R80 first, which for me Gourcuff is more likely to get a spot. R80 has been good this season, but we've had to rely on individual brilliance much of the time he's played. The main reason I'd pick Gourcuff over him is that while he's a great player, to be his best he needs to stay wide left cutting in from time to time, playing on the same line as Kaka. This massively impacts Kaka's game as he's having to drop deeper and we lose cover in midfield, thus causing imbalance in the side. Gourcuff can play a deeper role behind Kaka (like Seedorf of late) and his movement should open up options for players like Pirlo to exploit. Added to this, his high workrate means we have the extra man to help cover in midfield. This option would leave the midfield looking like this...

----Rino---Pirlo---Flamini/Janku--
---------Gourcuff---------------
----------------Kaka------------


The other option is Gourcuff fights for a spot with Janku and Flamini. I've discussed how I'd see this midfield in the Gourcuff thread, which would look like this....

------Rino---Pirlo---Gourcuff------
----------Kaka---------R80-------

Personally, I think the first option appears better atm, mostly as we should get more out of other key players like Kaka and Pirlo in it.

Getting back to my original point, whilst on paper it looks tough for Gourcuff to get into midfield, I think in reality we can accommodate him and get him regular play time. In terms of what he's producing this year, I'd argue he's out performing all of those he's in competition for places with (Ambro, Flamini, R80, Beckham and Janku).

Originally Posted by mrki

Of course he doesnt want Yoan back! You think that Gourcuff would play if Carlo had a choice between him, ambrosini, Beckham, Seedorf, pirlo in the middle... he'll play every 10th game.

The man will choose Bourdoux, play WC and then move to Barca, Real, United etc.

We should beg him to come back, not talk idiotic things like this. "he played what he deserved..." yeah right...Brocchi also deserved all that playing time, of course...

You know, I am not so sure if what Ancelotti said really matters much. Over the past few years, it is evident that Ancelotti is the management's little ***** cat. As long as the management wants Yoann back, they will do everything they have to do, including forcing Ancelotti to make room for him in the starting 11. At the end of the day, I really doubt Yoann would give up more money and fame and not to give his Milan career at least another shot.

Originally Posted by Reza

They are a decent second now, second is automatic into group stages isn't it? Even if they end up lower what's stopping them from finding the money in April when they can be sure they can make it back and more in June if they sell him? Only 2 month span.

I think you clearly misunderstand the reason why Bordeaux would like to keep Gourcuff: not to sell him 2 months later (they can't anyway ? The limit of clubs in one season ... Milan=>Bordeaux=>X, he can't play in X), but to build one more year the team around him.

And the financial situation of French clubs isn't very good, except for Lyon. Debt is totally forgotten in France for football clubs. It can sound really weird as all the other clubs in Europe are allowed to have a debt (more or less big depending on the countries).
So M6 announced they could give money to the club to let them use the option (then it would be all in the hands of Gourcuff to sign there or to come back) like I said two weeks ago if I remember, but it will only be the case if in some months, Bordeaux is still in the first 2 positions of the league. They are probably better than Lyon nowadays, but it looks like this season in France will be a race between 3-4 clubs for the title.

Only Kaka' is a better playmaker in current Milan then Gourcuff. Gattuso and Flamini are not involved in same roles as Yoan is. There is no point of talking Yoan vs Rino or Yoan vs Flamini...

Concerning Jankulovski as a midfielder, Seedorf, Beckham and in thos half-form Dinho, RIGHT NOW Gourcuff play better then them.

I left out Pirlo coz most likely Yoan will never play the role of deep playmaker that belongs to Andrea.

Seasons are long and have a milion games per year. Emerson will leave, also I hope so Beckham will leave. Yoan should be in front of Ambrosini and Seedorf for sure. Playing with Dinho and Kaka' behind Pato. With Flamini and Rino in the middle. I'd bench Pirlo. But that is me, its my oppinion. Or play Pirlo and bench Dinho, there are milion options.

EDIT:

Maybe there will be a "Kaka'" campaign in Bourdox like we did for Kaka' and he'll stay there. Or we can make even bigger campaingn for getting him back. Im sure every player wants to play in Milan, but he needs reassurances. And YES reasurrances can be given, but Carlo doesnt want to. At least he can shut up... And then we sell Clarence

Originally Posted by GeoTav

I think you clearly misunderstand the reason why Bordeaux would like to keep Gourcuff: not to sell him 2 months later (they can't anyway ? The limit of clubs in one season ... Milan=>Bordeaux=>X, he can't play in X), but to build one more year the team around him.

And the financial situation of French clubs isn't very good, except for Lyon. Debt is totally forgotten in France for football clubs. It can sound really weird as all the other clubs in Europe are allowed to have a debt (more or less big depending on the countries).
So M6 announced they could give money to the club to let them use the option (then it would be all in the hands of Gourcuff to sign there or to come back) like I said two weeks ago if I remember, but it will only be the case if in some months, Bordeaux is still in the first 2 positions of the league. They are probably better than Lyon nowadays, but it looks like this season in France will be a race between 3-4 clubs for the title.

If he is sold in the summer, Gourcuff would play for whoever in the new season (2009/10) so no problem as far as that rule goes (And he hasn't played (registered) for us in 2008/09 so it's 1 club only, Bordeaux, for this season any way)

As far as the finances of course you are right, I was saying in April they pay 15M (or whatever it is) for the buyout clause and then they sell him in June for more. As I posted it was purely worst case scenario speculation from me.

For what it's worth (which probably isn't much) The Times of London is reporting that Milan is interested in bringing Malouda from Chelsea in the summer.

Originally Posted by mrki

Seasons are long and have a milion games per year. Emerson will leave, also I hope so Beckham will leave. Yoan should be in front of Ambrosini and Seedorf for sure. Playing with Dinho and Kaka' behind Pato. With Flamini and Rino in the middle. I'd bench Pirlo. But that is me, its my oppinion. Or play Pirlo and bench Dinho, there are milion options.

TMW made a complete article on our situation ... for them, our next mercato will be something looking like that:

GKs

- Abbiati will stay
- Kalac could be kept
- Dida will be sold because of his high wage (still 2 years at 4M per year)

Defense

- Maldini and Favalli will retire
- Senderos will come back to Arsenal
- Depending on the situation with Nesta (injuries) and Kaladze (how he plays), we could buy Agger, Mexes or Lucio who seems to be on his way out of Bayern, to join Thiago Silva and Mattioni.
- We could buy another RB or LB, but they say we could try to get Eboue from Arsenal. His contract ends this summer and he refused to go to Atletico Madrid, and he didn't accept any new contract yet. Inter is also interested.

Midfield

- Jankulovski would be kept to play in his natural position (LM)
- Two players from the following will leave: Ambrosini, Emerson, Flamini, and actually, Emerson will leave for sure, in the next few days or in summer. So Ambrosini could leave to give space to Flamini, or Flamini could leave to allow us to make a plus-value if any English club does a good proposition (they speak about his high wages being a problem).
- Gattuso, Pirlo and Seedorf will stay, whatever happens.
- Gourcuff would come back, and Beckham would be kept. With these two guys staying, there would be no new midfielder bought next summer. If one of them can't stay, our targets would be Kuzmanovic from Fiorentina or Lucas from Liverpool.
- Cardacio will be loaned

Attack

- Shevchenko won't be kept, they say he is currently on loan with an option of 12M ... and somewhere else, they said Dynamo Kiev would want to buy it to us ... what's his real status in Milan ?! Chelsea player loaned or Milan player ?
- Boriello will stay
- Inzaghi could stay one last year
- We would try to negotiate with Bendtner or Fred (Another *** from Lyon !! Can't see him in Milan)

Coach

- They say that the declaration of last week "I'm only the coach, I don't decide for anything else that things on the pitch" (I summarized lol) from Ancelotti could be a signal that he wants more responsability ... and that we should be aware of that because of the many clubs who will look for a coach this summer.


So they think our strategy for this summer will be that.

Originally Posted by Reza

If he is sold in the summer, Gourcuff would play for whoever in the new season (2009/10) so no problem as far as that rule goes (And he hasn't played (registered) for us in 2008/09 so it's 1 club only, Bordeaux, for this season any way)

As far as the finances of course you are right, I was saying in April they pay 15M (or whatever it is) for the buyout clause and then they sell him in June for more. As I posted it was purely worst case scenario speculation from me.

Actually, they could do that, but they won't ... they try to be the first team to beat Lyon since almost one decade (wow, actually, some young people in France only know Lyon as a champion ... sad thing ), so if they buy him, it will only be to help them to dominate in France and appear as a good team in Europe.
And Gourcuff is so loved right now in Bordeaux that if they buy him to sell him 2 months after, everyone in this club will have to leave or they will be killed by supporters !!

GeoTav, that's a wonderful summary of the summer plan.

I don't know how Beckham could survive in our team when Gattuso returns.

We're going to end up with 2 players for every position, basically:

Antonini/Felipe----Nesta/Agger----Thiago/Bonera---Zambrotta/Jankulovski

Flamini/Gattuso----- Pirlo/Beckham-----Seedorf/Jankulovski

Gourcuff/R80/Seedorf-----Kaka'

Pato/Borriello.

Awesome.

That other AM spot behind Kaka is going to get crowded.



Edit: What is the article saying in the end about Carlo and Leonardo?

I wish Man City buys Ronaldinho for 60 million....







Did I say that out loud?