Andrea Pirlo - Form

Last comment on the tactics...lol. I'd hope our guys have the common sense not to all push up at the same time...I mean that's basic stuff that you learn when you're 14 years old. If Pirlo pushes up to the 35m mark, one of the DM's should be covering for him(it's their job) I still believe with 4 defenders and 2 DM...we should be able to *easily* contain any counter attack a team would spring on us. Provided the 6 players are quality players of course. Pirlo of course should be sprinting back to help out, but 6 defensive players should easily calm any attacking threat.
</last post on tactics in this thread>

rt9, I have to be quick, but let's look back at 2000/2003. We had Rino, Pirlo and Seedorf in midfield with Rui Costa and Rivaldo further up. Back then Seedorf used to move forward well down the left midfield with often Rino and Pirlo staying towards the centre. Defensively we weren't caught on the counter so often back then despite having supposedly less cover for the defence. This is partly due to the discipline of players like Seedorf and partly because of our strong pressing game, where essentially we simply didn't give opponents the chance to counter.

The diff. was our two CBs. Back then Nesta and Cap were really top 5 CBs in the world and nobody can past them.
but now, thats not the case.

We have to remember, much of what I'm suggesting is keeping next season in mind, rather than our current season. I'm hoping Thiago Silva is a good CB and we should have either Nesta or a new CB for next season. So our pathetic defence should be improved quite a lot. On top of that, we will have more protection in midfield with Rino and Flamini, thus hopefully a little less pressure on the defenders.

I don't think the tactic with Pirlo in the middle and two defensive midfielders behind him will work. The big problem is that it lacks width, our full backs will be isolated, and we'll be restrained to play in whatever side Pirlo is at. Instead I think we should play with a traditional holding midfielder, and that should be Flamini. So when we're playing with Flamini/Gattuso it would look something like:

Flamini
Gattuso Pirlo

Flamini would provide much needed cover to the back 4, and Pirlo would be free to do the before mentioned forward runs after he passes the ball. Gattuso would basicly be in the same role as he is now. This would still keep the width of the team, and provide more cover in the back with Flamini there, and more options in the front with Pirlo there.


Also I think Pirlo is by no means a lazy player, he doesn't do the forward runs, but as previously mentioned i'm 99% sure that's cause he's not instructed to do so. If you notice his movement when we're building from the back, then he's always making himself available, and helping defenders out when they're being pressured, and that's one of the things that he's so good at.

Just take a look at Pirlo is WC or Pirlo in 2004 and you'll see the difference.

Now we talk about reconstructing whole team, the DM's, fullbacks etc...just so that Mozart Pirlo can pass the ball like he wants to...isnt it a bit too much?

I dont see Xavi and Iniesta and Fabregas having all these tactical requests when they play their passing game which is as brilliant as Pirlos.

we cant play like this:
----------Pirlo------
-Gattuso------Flamini---

These are 3 palyers with same movement caracteristics except maybe Flamini who has a habit of going vertically in final third of the pitch. Pirlo also cant paly on the left as he is unable to sprint or cross places behind the aM's back etc.

So lets just play normal football with Flamini-Rino-Gourcuff-KAka' in the middle and two forwards or Dinho is he is ok to play. When Pirlo decides to run he can come in and play.

Originally Posted by Christian

I don't think the tactic with Pirlo in the middle and two defensive midfielders behind him will work. The big problem is that it lacks width, our full backs will be isolated, and we'll be restrained to play in whatever side Pirlo is at. Instead I think we should play with a traditional holding midfielder, and that should be Flamini. So when we're playing with Flamini/Gattuso it would look something like:

Flamini
Gattuso Pirlo

Flamini would provide much needed cover to the back 4, and Pirlo would be free to do the before mentioned forward runs after he passes the ball. Gattuso would basicly be in the same role as he is now. This would still keep the width of the team, and provide more cover in the back with Flamini there, and more options in the front with Pirlo there.


Also I think Pirlo is by no means a lazy player, he doesn't do the forward runs, but as previously mentioned i'm 99% sure that's cause he's not instructed to do so. If you notice his movement when we're building from the back, then he's always making himself available, and helping defenders out when they're being pressured, and that's one of the things that he's so good at.

It does look narrow, but remember both Gourcuff and Kaka have an inclination to go wide when creating play, as well as Pato when he looks to get away from defenders or build from deeper.

The width in our side right now definitely doesn't come from our midfielders, and when they are wide they're often not of use either being too deep or not providing quality service.

Originally Posted by mrki

Just take a look at Pirlo is WC or Pirlo in 2004 and you'll see the difference.

Perhaps we would see the difference because he played A DIFFERENT ROLE and under DIFFERENT COACH? No?

Originally Posted by fLame

Perhaps we would see the difference because he played A DIFFERENT ROLE and under DIFFERENT COACH? No?

so you agree the coach needs to be changed. i suppose you might want hiddink

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

We have to remember, much of what I'm suggesting is keeping next season in mind, rather than our current season. I'm hoping Thiago Silva is a good CB and we should have either Nesta or a new CB for next season. So our pathetic defence should be improved quite a lot. On top of that, we will have more protection in midfield with Rino and Flamini, thus hopefully a little less pressure on the defenders.

and what if thiago silva or the next big cb get injured? what will we do? get back to the pathetic defense. the problem is not about defending, its about how we are approaching the game. we are way too defensive and this is why we suffer defensively. the only pathetic thing is this formation " give the ball to kaka and he will do the rest".

with proper approach to the game i believe we should do better. the problem is coming straight from the coach not the defence.last season Nesta was there and gattuso almost played every game and we suffered terribly and didnot make it to the champions league.

we shouldnot look for reasons to justify our failure we should work on the problem and galliani looks he forgot how to handle things he only knows how to talk. today he came up and said that its not only milan who are suffering defensively, its inter too who lost 3-0. this guy has lost it really. it would be better if he compared the total situation with inter. they are top of the table and they are playing champions league (for now).

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

rt9, I have to be quick, but let's look back at 2000/2003. We had Rino, Pirlo and Seedorf in midfield with Rui Costa and Rivaldo further up. Back then Seedorf used to move forward well down the left midfield with often Rino and Pirlo staying towards the centre. Defensively we weren't caught on the counter so often back then despite having supposedly less cover for the defence. This is partly due to the discipline of players like Seedorf and partly because of our strong pressing game, where essentially we simply didn't give opponents the chance to counter.

Yeah that's very true. Ahh, miss the good old days. We were a much more dynamic team then weren't we? I still remember Seedorf owning the left side of midfield, Sheva running the channels, Pippo holding back the defensive line, and Pirlo and Rui Costa with those sublime passes.

We have slowed down substantially these days. No more pressing, no more movement off the ball. Now it's just pass and jog

Pippo holding the defensive line..loolllll

Originally Posted by rt9

Yeah that's very true. Ahh, miss the good old days. We were a much more dynamic team then weren't we? I still remember Seedorf owning the left side of midfield, Sheva running the channels, Pippo holding back the defensive line, and Pirlo and Rui Costa with those sublime passes.

We have slowed down substantially these days. No more pressing, no more movement off the ball. Now it's just pass and jog

Even back in the days when we win, we still have members complain about this and that... it never ends.

Originally Posted by Mystik

Pippo holding the defensive line..loolllll

The opponent's defensive line that is

With him, it's either: 1) he's part of the opponent's defense; 2) he is off-side; 3) he scores an off-sidish goal. You gotta love Pippo..

Originally Posted by fLame

Perhaps we would see the difference because he played A DIFFERENT ROLE and under DIFFERENT COACH? No?

Well no, he played under Carlo in Milan since the beggining of his days here, and played DM for Lippi between Perotta and De Rossi... so, no - you are wrong. He just worked harder.

As people say, that Milan team (2002/03, 2003/04 ) was superb. Seedorf was ALWAYS, since he was 16, playing as CENTRAL midfield and he played it superbly whereever he palyed, except for maybe bad spell at Merda. Once Seedorf couldnt play as CM anymore the storyes satrted how he was always an aM etc. But that is not the truth, its just a story so Seedorf can find a new role he can play, as he is no longer able to play as CM.

There was Pirlo who played at significally higher tempo then today, and Rui who played a DPPER role then Kaka' today, oftenly playing basically also as CM, like Zidane for example. That same role is Kaka's natural role, but he was rutned in to almost seconda punta. Aldough he plays his best football behind two strikers.

And not to mention the best back 4 in the world togehter with Juve's.

when you conside all that, we can see that this Milan team has lost most of the quality it had back then. And with a coach that was never capable of making 100% out of them anyway, we are now in problems that everyone in the world sees. In the end, results speak for themselves.
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My claim is that Milan can insert Gourcuff in former Seedorf's role without any problems and that he can play it well. As I have talked before, with Ronaldinho is Milan Seedorf is not a problem as papers said, Pirlo is.

I'd construct a team with this, which moves into 3-2-1 in defensive phase.

Flamini-Gattuso
-----Kaka'--Yoan--Dinho---
------------Pato----

Or if you want a team without Dinho then 2 CF's. A team with this Pirlo needs serious reshufling just so he can play his football and I dont see Milan being capable of buying 5,6 players just so Pirlo can play.

If you loos at Yoan is nome games this year we can see he can play on the left side well, covering much space as the can move really well actually.

Of course there are solutions like Essien, Fabregas...but Yoan is our player so lets play him, he costs 0.