UEFA Champions League 2008-2009

Originally Posted by GeoTav

No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.

If I'm not wrong, both Ballack and Juninho were fair players some years ago ... they were both very influential in the game of their respective teams ... look at them nowadays ...

Aha, I get it now. I thought it's only because of the last accident when he protested the referee.

The protest looks terrible but it's pretty funny to watch how he could do such a protest with a legal action (only shouting/verbal protest to the referee). It seemed that he wanted to punch the referee.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.

If I'm not wrong, both Ballack and Juninho were fair players some years ago ... they were both very influential in the game of their respective teams ... look at them nowadays ...

Nah i think Ballack has always been the cunning type of player.

Drogba went nuts after the game though,i think he's going to be handed a ban for trying to assault the ref and yelling obscenities into a live tv camera.

While very poor it wasn't THAT one sided refereeing, it might look it because possession was often Barca's and Chelsea's runs toward Barca's goal were more one on one or counterattacking style that can often be almost a last man type of foul.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Goal.com gives the following ratings:

Essien - 6
Alves - 6.5

Did they really watch the game ??

Ballack should stop football, since he is a Chelsea player (because he seemed more respectful in Bayern), he's just a boring guy contesting all the referee decisions, and he seems more and more aggressive. From a star player, he transformed himself into a Van Bommel kind of player ...

Goal.com ratings are so biased(and mostly wrong): That was the worse Alves performance that I remember...deserved a 4-

Also, as I said many times...Messi has still much to prove. Every time he faze a real defense, the little boy disappear.

Don´t get me wrong, the guy is a top-3 right now, but he needs to show that in real games to be labeled as "The Messias" as Braça fans like to say...

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Also, as I said many times...Messi has still much to prove. Every time he faze a real defense, the little boy disappear.

Don´t get me wrong, the guy is a top-3 right now, but he needs to show that in real games to be labeled as "The Messias" as Braça fans like to say...

I agree Messi still has alot to prove, and as he's still young he has plenty of time and room for improvement. But I wouldn't say he dissapears - in these two Chelsea games he was very underwhelming (despite this he got an assist yesterday ), but a year ago against Man Utd he was, despite not scoring, the best player over 180 minutes, and the biggest threat in both games.

And still, who can lay a better claim to being the best player in the world? Ronaldo? Iniesta? Gerrard? Ribery? Ibra? Kaká? Giggs?!? No doubt in my mind Messi is the best.

A healthy Kaka is better than any other player, IMHO. CR7 has good and extremely hard working players with pace surrounding him. Somewhat similar story with Messi and the only big team he has constantly given good performances against is Real Madrid which is a joke in recent times. Again, Messi is only 21 and has only 37 games in CL (and 18 goals, of course). I remember CR7 having only 1 or 2 goals in his first 40 (or 30) something CL games. Look at Kaka and the players he is surrounded with. I think we are not a WC team without Kaka (Not considering Pato). Kaka gives WC performances with Brazil almost every time.

Kaka > Messi > CR7.

PS: I am still not convinced that CR7 is a superstar. I could be ridiculously wrong though. I might change my opinion if he manages to lead his NT to WC2010.

Messi is the most overrated player ever.

@ Ceceves
How can Messi be the best player of the last year's tie with MU when they lost?? The best player in the world isn't the one with most goals and assists, it's the player who had been most influential and lead his team to trophies...

Remember kaka? When he was the best in the world, he wasn't it because he scored most goals, or played most entertaining football. He was the best because he simply was the best when his team needed him...those ties against MU and the final, that kind of stuff makes you player of the year.

As much as I hate CR7, I must admit he's the best in the world right now. A few seasons ago, Ronaldo was a big game flopper, but now he scores important goals and is a leader of his team. Messi on the other hand didn't do anything against Chelsea, if he's the best in the world he should have done something when Barca needed him...

He's a great player and still has lots of time to do great stuff but right now CR is the best out there.

Back to back wins in CL and EPL will confirm this in a few weeks.

So, hypothetically, if a player has 49 fantastic games in a season, and then fails in the CL final, he can't be the best in the world?

It amazes me how people confuse individual quality with collective quality. Trophies are the hallmark of a great team, they don't necessarily say anything about the quality of a single player.

If you want to find out what is the best team in the world, look at their trophy cabinet. If you want to find out who is the best player in the world it's more complicated. You have to consider every single game they've played.

How was Messi the best player in the semis last year? He was the most threatening player on the pitch (Uniteds goal came out of nothing like Chelsea's last night). Also he had a perfectly good penalty call turned down by the ref, that, if converted, would have send Barca to the final.

I think, the performance of a team and a player can't be separated. If a player managed to perform so well in 90 percent of his team's games but failed to bring/help his team to win the Champions League, a competition for ALL best clubs in Europe, he can't be choosed to be the wolrd best player in my opinion. How great his performances in domestic league but failing to help the team to win the most prestigious competition in the World (beside World Cup) is a huge disadvantage (mistake) for him to be choosed as the world best player.

So, in my opinion, a best player is not only best for himself or best for his club but also best for the world (best for the best competition in the world which is Champions League or World Cup). Even still to add that the player must/should bring his club to win the Intercontinental Cup/World Club Cup as 'the last requirement'.

But again the standards are not very clear as they are only a matter of opinion from the national team coaches (coaches' votes)

Well of course there is a connection between the performance of a player and the performance of his team. If a player does well, often his team will, too - that's obvious. But I just think it's utterly unfair and illogical to say that if a player doesn't win a team award (CL, WC etc.) he can't win the the ballon d'or.

Originally Posted by Ceceves

So, hypothetically, if a player has 49 fantastic games in a season, and then fails in the CL final, he can't be the best in the world?

Of course he can.

BUT if there is a player who also had a great season(great 49 games as you say) and then kicked his a$$ in the final(most important game) while he was mentally absent from it...

All roads lead to Rome. The winner of that final will probably take it this year as there are no NT tournaments.

What do you think about this?
I think Mr Rinaldi is quite right.
(channel 4)

Blog: Remembering Korea

Chelsea boss Guus Hiddink said last night’s referee was the worst he’d ever seen. But, asks Giancarlo Rinaldi, what about Byron Moreno?

The summer of 2002 is one I don't recall with any pleasure. I had to get time off work to get out of the office to watch the Azzurri clash with South Korea in the World Cup. I remember wishing I hadn't bothered.

And yet all the memories have come flooding back to me following Chelsea's elimination from the Champions League. The same finger-pointing at the referee, the same conspiracy theories, the same bitter recriminations. Except it has all been turned upside down.

Let us recall what Italy fans were told after they lost out in the Far East. "Get over it," was the main message. "You didn't take your chances - so don't blame the referee. You are just making excuses."

Well, Blues of Stamford Bridge, how about taking that advice?

How many times have I seen an Italian team which based its game on stout defence and great organisation go out to a late goal? We are usually told it serves us right. So why does the same not hold true for an English club side?

The conspiracy theory about UEFA not wanting an all-English Final is laughable. Magnificent as the match referee was, how could he have foreseen Iniesta's late, late thunderbolt? Without that, remember, Chelsea were heading to Rome. And how does the ludicrous red card for a Barca player fit into the theory anyway?

Of course, those of us long enough in the tooth to remember South Korea will recall who was sitting on the opposition bench that day. Yes, it was Mr Hiddink. So when he says the referee on Wednesday night was the worst he has ever seen it is hard not to think he might have a slightly selective memory.

Byron Moreno was streets ahead of Tommy Ovrebo in the controversial decision department. He managed to send a man off when he should have got a penalty. Now imagine if that had happened to Didier Drogba...

Originally Posted by Ghost

Messi is the most overrated player ever.

Messi is only overrated depending on how you rate him. The majority of people simply rate him in the top 3 players in the world, if not number 1. Don't listen to the select few who think he can be compared to Maradona, it isn't the majority. In comparison with the players of today he's easily in the top 3 and 2 quiet games against Chelsea won't change that. He's been performing all season long.

Regarding the WPOY/Ballon D'or I think it's important for a player to be performing well consistently over the majority of the season, both in Europe and in their domestic league. However, these awards are (sadly) almost solely based on whoever does best in the biggest competition of the year (CL or Euros or World Cup).