Carlo Ancellotti: 'YES' or 'NO' ?

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

If Carlo hadn't tried inserting Kaladze in all the time, we'd have generally stuck with a CB partnership of Maldini - Favalli or Maldini - Bonera, both of which have had reasonable success over the season or in the last couple of seasons. We didn't need to keep changing as much as we did. Maldini and Favalli have never been out for a long period of time this season.

Kaladze was horrible, but it's not like his mistakes cost us 20 points ... our horrible defence was a mix between pairs of players who never played together (never is a bit strong, maybe I should say "not often") and a midfield a bit out of form.

You will understand in the following part ...

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Kaka before getting injured in mid season was actually in reasonable shape for the first half of the season. His biggest problem was clearly he was struggling to play with Dinho. Despite the struggles of other players, we accomodated Dinho on the left to the detriment of others, which to me isn't a problem of injuries, but tactics.

Once Ancelotti has had 3 fit and in form strikers (and 2 effective ones lol), he immediately changed his formation from 4-3-2-1 to 4-3-1-2 ... and that approximately coincides with our last run of wins and good games.

Missing Borriello with a not in form Inzaghi and a useless Sheva was why we had to play with one striker for 6 months (approximately).
Why Dinho on the left ? Because it's his best position and like he wasn't in great form, we couldn't use him somewhere else, it would be suicidal for him and for us.

Who replaced Pirlo in midfield ? The answer is Seedorf.

So we played with an unfit R80 (who anyway managed to score important goals, we wouldn't be where we are without his goals), a slow Seedorf and a more than average Kaka' (sorry, I strongly disagree with your point of view about him, with or without Ronaldinho, he didn't seem good at all) in midfield, it's more than enough to make us struggling.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Inzaghi for me isn't a big issue. Yes he's doing great, but as I pointed out in the Pato thread, Pato is very capable as the leading striker.

Of course, but like I said, our team became more effective and stronger with our Inzaghi from Spring playing alongside our wonderkid Pato (even if the problem is that Pato scored less goals, the team scored more).

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

What my argument really is (and was in my last post), is that our squad right now isn't in much better shape than it was earlier this season. For me, we were always capable of getting the performances we're getting now, but we didn't use what we had effectively until just recently. Instead, we kept playing out of form players like Kaladze and Ambro, and didn't use extremely useful players like Flamini. Nor did we make the necessary changes to get the best out of players like Kaka and Pato.

For the reasons I just wrote above, I think our team is in a better shape nowadays than earlier this season ... ^^

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Kaladze was horrible, but it's not like his mistakes cost us 20 points ... our horrible defence was a mix between pairs of players who never played together (never is a bit strong, maybe I should say "not often") and a midfield a bit out of form.

You will understand in the following part ...

Once Ancelotti has had 3 fit and in form strikers (and 2 effective ones lol), he immediately changed his formation from 4-3-2-1 to 4-3-1-2 ... and that approximately coincides with our last run of wins and good games.

Missing Borriello with a not in form Inzaghi and a useless Sheva was why we had to play with one striker for 6 months (approximately).
Why Dinho on the left ? Because it's his best position and like he wasn't in great form, we couldn't use him somewhere else, it would be suicidal for him and for us.

Who replaced Pirlo in midfield ? The answer is Seedorf.

So we played with an unfit R80 (who anyway managed to score important goals, we wouldn't be where we are without his goals), a slow Seedorf and a more than average Kaka' (sorry, I strongly disagree with your point of view about him, with or without Ronaldinho, he didn't seem good at all) in midfield, it's more than enough to make us struggling.

Of course, but like I said, our team became more effective and stronger with our Inzaghi from Spring playing alongside our wonderkid Pato (even if the problem is that Pato scored less goals, the team scored more).

For the reasons I just wrote above, I think our team is in a better shape nowadays than earlier this season ... ^^

Kaladze is the only one to blame for our defensive problems, and whilst he didn't cost 20 points, his mistakes and poor showings have cost us a lot and insisting on him starting when he's so poor cannot be excused.

Actually, Ancelotti's most successful periods vary between 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2, depending on who's available and how we use them. If we play a lone forward we need someone capable of pushing up to support that forward, and Kaka has been brilliant at it. In the first part of the period, Dinho was meant to do it (with Kaka behind) but by sticking so far wide more often than not didn't help the striker and restricted the movement of Kaka and Pato (when he was first choice).

I'm certain with Dinho's quality we can attempt to use him in various roles, not just the left. More importantly, I've seen him play other roles through his career so I know he can do it. If he was affecting the team on the left negatively, then surely we should try different ideas to try and get a better balance. If he can't do it considering his poor shape at the start of the season, then he shouldn't have played. He scored many important goals, but I feel certain he also held the team back in many ways. It's no coincidence that we've scored more goals in this half of the season when he's been mostly benched than the whole of the first half of the season where he played almost every match, and that's with 4 rounds still left to go.

Yes, Seedorf replaced Pirlo, as did Gattuso too. Both interpreted the role differently, but I've not heard one complaint about either in the role this season. Seedorf in particular was praised in the early parts of the season when played deeper, it's mainly in this half of the season where we've had complaints.

There's no way Kaka would suddenly become average at some parts of the season and then suddenly regains top form at other parts. Clearly tactics were affecting his game. He even openly admitted it in interviews that he and Dinho had to learn to play together.

Quick question, is Inzaghi the key to our greater effectiveness against opponents or is it that we're finding much better balance in the side now? Confidence is a big part imo, as the team is now feeling good, also key tactical changes, such as pushing Kaka closer to the forward and playing Flamini at RB. Inzaghi plays his part, but our recent form is due to many reasons.

Maybe we need to agree to disagree, but I can't say I've changed my mind. I feel we had the potential all season to play as well as we do now (which is why I'm so frustrated with Carlo), but we took far too long to figure out a system of play.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

There's no way Kaka would suddenly become average at some parts of the season and then suddenly regains top form at other parts. Clearly tactics were affecting his game. He even openly admitted it in interviews that he and Dinho had to learn to play together.

Quick question, is Inzaghi the key to our greater effectiveness against opponents or is it that we're finding much better balance in the side now? Confidence is a big part imo, as the team is now feeling good, also key tactical changes, such as pushing Kaka closer to the forward and playing Flamini at RB. Inzaghi plays his part, but our recent form is due to many reasons.

Maybe we need to agree to disagree, but I can't say I've changed my mind. I feel we had the potential all season to play as well as we do now (which is why I'm so frustrated with Carlo), but we took far too long to figure out a system of play.

The "problem" between us is that for one situation, we have two different points of view !!
Agreeing to disagree and stopping to argue is not what I'm waiting from this forum, look, when I answered, you explained more your point of view, as I did too then, and you did again after me, and that allows us to understand better what the other thinks ... if we don't interact with each other when we disagree, well the forum would be a bit boring ? ^^

Of course, we had this potential from the beginning of the season, but you can't say that injuries didn't play a major role in our worst parts of season (which was the starting point of our argue).

To answer to your rethoric question, I think that Inzaghi is one part of the whole "thing" that allowed us to have this confidence back, allowed us to win all these games and to do this last run with 10 games without any defeat.
(I think we agree about that, we are not better now just because Inzaghi is back on form but thanks to many reasons, and in these reasons, there is the fact that some players are back in form).

About Kaka', yes, he can play well at some parts of the season and play bad at some other parts, he is a human being. Of course, the formation with R80 didn't help him, but even without R80, he didn't seem in a very good form. But now, this bad period for him seems behind him and he seems to be slowly back to his high standards.

I must say i pretty much agree with both of you.

ACMILAN1983, I agree with you that Carlo took a long time to find the right balance in the team, but it is pretty hard to find it with all those injuries and the fact that Berlu probably insisted that Ronaldinho plays(in the first half of the season) even if he weren't in tip-top shape. Ka-Pa-Ro is something he gets a hard on from...

Kaka's form is probably connected to Ronaldinho's and it is hard for him to shine if Ronnie is lazy and isn't doing his part. On the other hand, Kaka's been injured and hasn't played a lot and when he was in, he played like crap. Every time he got the ball, he lost it, can't blame Carlo, tactics nor Ronaldinho for that. In recent times, you can see he's doing better, taking the ball, going strait at defenders, shooting...simply, he's back.
In that aspect I agree with Geo The Magnificent.

Good points, Dev. I still have my reservations about Prandelli and particularly Spalletti. I still feel that Prandelli relies more on youth rather than the "finished products" he would have here at Milan, maybe more of the Arsene Wenger philosphy. I think it suits clubs like Parma, Fiorentina, or even Napoli very well, but Milan, I am not too sure.

You are right about Spalleti, his Roma teams were playing some outstanding football, but he has one thing in common with Ancelloti---this ability to implode, remember the 6-1 drubbing by Utd? That was more than embarrassing, and then having chances to redeem themselves, ROma looked like a bunch of *****cats, rather than gladiators.

I dont know I think I'm starting to come around to Berlu/Galliani's way of thinking---I would prefer an ex-Milan player as coach, someone who knows what this club is all about and who can work together with the directors. For that reason, I would go for Rijkaard or even Leonardo (after some years), and who knows, one day Billy may be able to return to take over (provided he gets plenty more experience).

Originally Posted by GeoTav

The "problem" between us is that for one situation, we have two different points of view !!
Agreeing to disagree and stopping to argue is not what I'm waiting from this forum, look, when I answered, you explained more your point of view, as I did too then, and you did again after me, and that allows us to understand better what the other thinks ... if we don't interact with each other when we disagree, well the forum would be a bit boring ? ^^

Of course, we had this potential from the beginning of the season, but you can't say that injuries didn't play a major role in our worst parts of season (which was the starting point of our argue).

To answer to your rethoric question, I think that Inzaghi is one part of the whole "thing" that allowed us to have this confidence back, allowed us to win all these games and to do this last run with 10 games without any defeat.
(I think we agree about that, we are not better now just because Inzaghi is back on form but thanks to many reasons, and in these reasons, there is the fact that some players are back in form).

About Kaka', yes, he can play well at some parts of the season and play bad at some other parts, he is a human being. Of course, the formation with R80 didn't help him, but even without R80, he didn't seem in a very good form. But now, this bad period for him seems behind him and he seems to be slowly back to his high standards.

I'm happy to keep discussing the matter, just I didn't want to keep going in circles. Anyway...

I think you misunderstood my original point (a relatively minor point in my original post). It wasn't injuries didn't play their part during the worst parts of our season, but our squad's situation now isn't particularly better than earlier this season. We're missing 3 guaranteed starters right now (Abbiati, Rino and Nesta), one potential starter (Borri) and we can even argue Thiago who would normally be a starter this season.

I don't think I disagree with the rest

Originally Posted by El Fre

I must say i pretty much agree with both of you.

ACMILAN1983, I agree with you that Carlo took a long time to find the right balance in the team, but it is pretty hard to find it with all those injuries and the fact that Berlu probably insisted that Ronaldinho plays(in the first half of the season) even if he weren't in tip-top shape. Ka-Pa-Ro is something he gets a hard on from...

Kaka's form is probably connected to Ronaldinho's and it is hard for him to shine if Ronnie is lazy and isn't doing his part. On the other hand, Kaka's been injured and hasn't played a lot and when he was in, he played like crap. Every time he got the ball, he lost it, can't blame Carlo, tactics nor Ronaldinho for that. In recent times, you can see he's doing better, taking the ball, going strait at defenders, shooting...simply, he's back.
In that aspect I agree with Geo The Magnificent.

I wonder how much Berlu forced Dinho to play. Right now, Dinho's probably in better shape than at the start of the season, but he doesn't get picked. Berlu doesn't seem to mind though.

Kaka was poor when trying to return from injury, that's without doubt. However, in the first half of the season I feel it was restrictions placed on him and being forced to play deeper that didn't help him play to his best.

Originally Posted by rt9

Good points, Dev. I still have my reservations about Prandelli and particularly Spalletti. I still feel that Prandelli relies more on youth rather than the "finished products" he would have here at Milan, maybe more of the Arsene Wenger philosphy. I think it suits clubs like Parma, Fiorentina, or even Napoli very well, but Milan, I am not too sure.

You are right about Spalleti, his Roma teams were playing some outstanding football, but he has one thing in common with Ancelloti---this ability to implode, remember the 6-1 drubbing by Utd? That was more than embarrassing, and then having chances to redeem themselves, ROma looked like a bunch of *****cats, rather than gladiators.

I dont know I think I'm starting to come around to Berlu/Galliani's way of thinking---I would prefer an ex-Milan player as coach, someone who knows what this club is all about and who can work together with the directors. For that reason, I would go for Rijkaard or even Leonardo (after some years), and who knows, one day Billy may be able to return to take over (provided he gets plenty more experience).

I have reservations about Spalletti too, not so much in terms of his tactical ability, but in his mentality (which doesn't appear to be the strongest). Prandelli I'm more convinced by. We can't say how he'd handle champions though, and I don't think it's his preference to develop younger players, but the clubs he's worked for he has pretty much had given limited resources.

In all fairness, I'm not convinced atm with the ex-Milan stars as coaches. I do think Berlu's changed strategy though anyway, as recently he said he'd like to do what he did with Sacchi and Cappello and pick an upcoming new manager.

ps - not to seem pedantic, but Man Utd v Roma ended 7-1.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I'm happy to keep discussing the matter, just I didn't want to keep going in circles. Anyway...

I think you misunderstood my original point (a relatively minor point in my original post). It wasn't injuries didn't play their part during the worst parts of our season, but our squad's situation now isn't particularly better than earlier this season. We're missing 3 guaranteed starters right now (Abbiati, Rino and Nesta), one potential starter (Borri) and we can even argue Thiago who would normally be a starter this season.

I don't think I disagree with the rest .

As I said before in my previous post, the major difference is that we are now playing once a week.
With 15 players you can play once a week and keep the players in best shape and form,
BUT it is impossible to keep the same players in the same condition when the players have to play twice a week after week for a long time.
Sometimes Carlo had to play unfit/injured players due to many injuries in the same department.

The available players in the team now are clearly much better physically.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

As I said before in my previous post, the major difference is that we are now playing once a week.
With 15 players you can play once a week and keep the players in best shape and form,
BUT it is impossible to keep the same players in the same condition when the players have to play twice a week after week for a long time.
Sometimes Carlo had to play unfit/injured players due to many injuries in the same department.

The available players in the team now are clearly much better physically.

I respect we're playing just once a week, but it's not like we've been playing that many games this season. There was UEFA where we didn't play our starters too regularly, nor did we put a great deal of energy in it and the Coppa which we went out of straight away.

This season I don't think it's the same as previous years where we've been in CL and fighting for the league.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I respect we're playing just once a week, but it's not like we've been playing that many games this season. There was UEFA where we didn't play our starters too regularly, nor did we put a great deal of energy in it and the Coppa which we went out of straight away.

This season I don't think it's the same as previous years where we've been in CL and fighting for the league.

We were not fighting CL, but still we had to play uefa, Coppa and some mid week league matches with the same players because of the unusual high number of injuries.
And when the players are tired and the results will not come even psychological problems will occur. It is like a chain a problem connected with the other.

When we started playing once a week Ancellotti said it straight away that Milan now will perform very well but unfortunately in this forum very few people took him seriously.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

We were not fighting CL, but still we had to play uefa, Coppa and some mid week league matches with the same players because of the unusual high number of injuries.
And when the players are tired and the results will not come even psychological problems will occur. It is like a chain a problem connected with the other.

When we started playing once a week Ancellotti said it straight away that Milan now will perform very well but unfortunately in this forum very few people took him seriously.

Darmian, Viudez, Cardaccio were fit to play for UEFA and Coppa Italia, competitions which actually not our REAL target BUT Carlo still used Slowdorf and Slowdorf again. That's true we have injuries but we have other players to play in UEFA and Coppa so that the starters can play in Serie A.

Injuries plays important role for our (almost) fail to fight Inter until the last day, so does Ancelotti's stubborn to use the same player for all games (with also other important reasons).

Originally Posted by Siregar

Darmian, Viudez, Cardaccio were fit to play for UEFA and Coppa Italia, competitions which actually not our REAL target BUT Carlo still used Slowdorf and Slowdorf again. That's true we have injuries but we have other players to play in UEFA and Coppa so that the starters can play in Serie A.

Injuries plays important role for our (almost) fail to fight Inter until the last day, so does Ancelotti's stubborn to use the same player for all games (with also other important reasons).

Uefa Cup was considered Important by the management.

Do you really mean Milan should played with half the youth team in a European competition?

If yes, Thanks God that the management and the coach have a different opinion.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Uefa Cup was considered Important by the management.

They never think UEFA is an importan competition. If yes, Carlo Ancelotti would pack his bag out of Milan after the game against Werder Bremen (bad results in Serie A, bad results in important competition like UEFA). If that was a UEFA Champions League, Carlo would have already been sacked (even with injuries alibi).

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Do you really mean Milan should played with half the youth team in a European competition?

No, I even never consider to ask such question like you think. But Cardaccio is not youth team, so are Vuidez and Darmian. Even in Coppa Carlo used similar line-up.

he must leave bcuz he has win all d trophy!

WOW What a BOMB!!!!!!!from Berlusconi. (if it is true)
Sorry Mr.President if there is a fault it is only yours!!!!!


Berlusconi, accuse ad Ancelotti
"Lo scudetto perso per colpa sua"
Berlusconi e Ancelotti

"Se il Milan non ha vinto lo scudetto, la colpa è di Ancelotti". Silvio Berlusconi, a Sharm el Sheik per un vertice con il presidente egiziano Mubarak, punta il dito contro il tecnico rossonero e, di fatto, apre le porte a un addio a fine stagione. Questo, almeno, stando a quanto riporta il quotidiano La Repubblica, secondo cui il premier si sarebbe fatto scappare questo sfogo con alcuni turisti italiani presenti al Resort Domina Coral Bay.

If that is the case, then let's sack him. If we're not going to sack him, then the very least we should do is to give him some support, not a public dressing down....Wonder whether Silvio is planning a coaching change, or is going crazy, or both.