Summer mercato 2009

Pirlo at this stage for 20MIl pounds is a great deal.
What about Mrs. Carlo, Slowdorf, he is worth at least 8mil pounds.
Pls also bring Kaladze too.

Can't wait to see that happen

Just one more thing, was Gourcuff 15Mil Euro or pounds?

Any other player like Xavi, Iniesta which is not impossible to get?

If Pirlo goes, I think we will lack of creativity in the midfield from such players.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Pirlo at this stage for 20MIl pounds is a great deal.
What about Mrs. Carlo, Slowdorf, he is worth at least 8mil pounds.
Pls also bring Kaladze too.

Can't wait to see that happen

Just one more thing, was Gourcuff 15Mil Euro or pounds?

So, if I understand your post, you want us to sell 3 experienced players who can still be useful if they are used properly ?

Yeah, a nice way to run the club ... and end 10th next year.

It is 15M €.

Well, he has not been creating much for the past two years.

The thing is this, and I think it is true to some extent. If we can get into CL like 3rd place. Berlu will spend huge for our new coach. I would not be surprise if someone like De Rossi, C7 or Cesc will come in to play for us.

As long as we can direct qualify for CL, Berlu will spend big

Originally Posted by GeoTav

So, if I understand your post, you want us to sell 3 experienced players who can still be useful if they are used properly ?

Yeah, a nice way to run the club ... and end 10th next year.

It is 15M €.

Honestly, Pirlo is useful, but I really can't even put useful in the same sentence while talking about Seedorf and Kaladze.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Any other player like Xavi, Iniesta which is not impossible to get?

If Pirlo goes, I think we will lack of creativity in the midfield from such players.

There was a young, very promising player in France, I think he played for Bastia...No, was it Boulogne? Oh, wait, it was Bordeaux...Yes, I think his name was Johann Gourmand, or something like that.

Originally Posted by Ceceves

There was a young, very promising player in France, I think he played for Bastia...No, was it Boulogne? Oh, wait, it was Bordeaux...Yes, I think his name was Johann Gourmand, or something like that.

No, I don't mean player like Gourcuff. I think he is still not a calibre of Xavi, Iniesta, etc regarnding the creativity. What I mean is a midfielder or attacking midfielder who can set up and playmake the game.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Well, if Nesta was healthy he would have played 15 games.
If Gattuso did not get injured, he would have played more than 15 games.
Same goes for Pippo.

So pls don't draw facts here and there and put together a conclusion that Milan squad is improving.

I didn't comment one way or the other regarding whether or not Milan was improving. I was merely stating THE facts regarding whether or not Milan has "virtually the same rotation" as in 2003.

But while we're at it,,,,

So then you think Milan was better off without Nesta since he would have been another "old guy" in the rotation? Without Gattuso? Without Pippo before he came in and started scoring goals like crazy? If players can still perform at a very high level, why get rid of them? Just for the sake of getting rid of them and being able to claim a younger roster?

There was a time in football when clubs developed young players to replace older ones when they retired or could no longer play at a high level. Now it seems nobody is patient enough to do that. Everybody has to throw money around and bring in established stars. I named several young players that Milan has brought in over the past couple of years to develop and eventually, if they pan out, replace some of the older players in the lineup, just as Pato has and as Kaka did before him.

Most of you, it seems, just want to rent players. If a player is 28, you complain that he's too old to add to the squad. If he's 20 and not ready to step in and be a world class player just yet, you're still not satisfied (and apparently those don't even count). It seems that everyone wants Milan to just sign established world class players who are 24 years old to four-year contracts then replace them with other 24-year-olds when they turn 28. You complain about Milan being a "galactico" team like Real Madrid, but you're only satisfied if Milan buys established stars.

I want to see Milan get younger as well because some of the players are becoming more injury-prone and skills are beginning to diminish. But it would be stupid to just cast all of them off all at once and bring in a whole new squad. You bring in a few players to fill pressing needs and you develop young players to replace the older ones as they become ready over the next few seasons. Milan has been doing that in bringing in the players I mentioned, so it's ridiculous to always hear this whining that "all Milan will do is bring in more 34-year olds," which is what I was responding to when I mentioned the promising young players Milan has bought recently.

We sold Shevchenko and replaced him with Oliveira
We tried to sell Kaka and replaced him with Ronaldinio
We loaned Gourcuff and replaced him with Emerson
We have sold Gourcuff and effectively replaced him with Beckham
We have lost Serghinio and replaced him with a midfielder - Janku
We have lost Nesta and Maldini and replaced them with Thiago (Unproven), Bonera(Unworthy), Favalli (Unyoung), Senderos (uneverything)
We lost Dida (to form) and replaced him with Abbiati who flopped for us in the past and now we are back depending on Dida
We lost Cafu, many of us hoped for Alves or a young replacement, we got Zambro who will need part-exchangig soon
We can sell Pirlo, but if you guys think we are going to get someone like Iniesta or Xavi then you are on another planet.

The club is in rot.Another poster once posted the phrase - "One stitch in time, saves nine". In a team of 11 players we literally only have two world class players we can pin our hopes on for the next 5 years (Kaka and Pato). The other 9 stiches are broken!!

I have been saying since last summer this management does not have a clue. There is not strategy, no direction, insufficient finances to fund world class transfers and no tactics. We are in no better than Firoentina or Roma. The only players who are under 30 of world class ability in our entire squad are Pato and Kaka. Does that not bring home the message that under the current management we have no future as a World giant anymore. Inter Milan and Juventus will share the Italian championship for the next 10 years and Barca + EPL teams will share the CL trophies.

Originally Posted by Rick

I didn't comment one way or the other regarding whether or not Milan was improving. I was merely stating THE facts regarding whether or not Milan has "virtually the same rotation" as in 2003.

But while we're at it,,,,

So then you think Milan was better off without Nesta since he would have been another "old guy" in the rotation? Without Gattuso? Without Pippo before he came in and started scoring goals like crazy? If players can still perform at a very high level, why get rid of them? Just for the sake of getting rid of them and being able to claim a younger roster?

There was a time in football when clubs developed young players to replace older ones when they retired or could no longer play at a high level. Now it seems nobody is patient enough to do that. Everybody has to throw money around and bring in established stars. I named several young players that Milan has brought in over the past couple of years to develop and eventually, if they pan out, replace some of the older players in the lineup, just as Pato has and as Kaka did before him.

Most of you, it seems, just want to rent players. If a player is 28, you complain that he's too old to add to the squad. If he's 20 and not ready to step in and be a world class player just yet, you're still not satisfied (and apparently those don't even count). It seems that everyone wants Milan to just sign established world class players who are 24 years old to four-year contracts then replace them with other 24-year-olds when they turn 28. You complain about Milan being a "galactico" team like Real Madrid, but you're only satisfied if Milan buys established stars.

I want to see Milan get younger as well because some of the players are becoming more injury-prone and skills are beginning to diminish. But it would be stupid to just cast all of them off all at once and bring in a whole new squad. You bring in a few players to fill pressing needs and you develop young players to replace the older ones as they become ready over the next few seasons. Milan has been doing that in bringing in the players I mentioned, so it's ridiculous to always hear this whining that "all Milan will do is bring in more 34-year olds," which is what I was responding to when I mentioned the promising young players Milan has bought recently.

Well, I understand your point, but just want you to know. I had been one of those who kept saying as long as we bring back Gourcuff, Abate and DiGennero our midfield is pretty set.

What I don't understand your point of view is that you believe Milan is bringing in players to replace the existing ones, well, with the exception of Pato and T. Silva, who have they brought in that can replace the existing players, better yet, do they even have a chance to prove themselves?
Flamini is probably one of the best DM in the world last season, what happened to him if Gattuso and Ambrosini were healthy, he was stuck on the bench behind Emerson. If he cannot adapt to RB, he would not even be playing esp since Beckham is here. Then there is Dinho, for all his fitness woes, he is always behind Seedorf for play time, despite the fact that Seedorf is pure crap. Mattioni is suppose to be the next big RB coming out of Brazil, he got what 5 mins official game time.
What about Bonera, who I think everyone here would agree is a much better player than Kaladze and Senderous, maybe he is injured all the time this year, but the fact that he is behind Kaladze and Senderous show you something about Carlo as a coach. Also, he is hardly a replacement for Nesta or Maldini, heck, he is not even close to the likes of Stam and Billy.
I am not going to get into Viudez, Cardacio and Darmain as I can't really judge them based on the few minutes I saw them play.


Now ofcourse it would be great if Milan can just go out and sign Santacroce, Srna, Canini, De Rossi, C7, Benzema and other WC players in one summer. But to me, as long as guys like Seedorf, Kaladze, Dida, Sheva, Senderous and even the likes of Pirlo and Janku leaves and Milan only recall all its players
like Abate, De Gennaro, Polashi, and give play time to Darmian, Mattioni, Cardacio, Alberterzzi, Viudez and even Strassuer. I could careless if we finish in the 10th spot b/c I would no longer need to see players play without passion, intensity, and heart and only shows up and do crap but still play week in and week out.

All I want to see are players who play with all they have and shows that they want to win and not players who just walk around the pitch and earn a big fat paycheck while people still defend them by saying, hey, blame the MGT for giving out stupid contracts and not the players.

It truly was a disgrace that the players did not even show up for the match against Roma until the 65mins or so. Thats need to be stop.

For me, I do want guys like Dida, Seedorf and others like them to be gone from Milan, as I think they are not worthy to play for a team like us as they just lack the passion week in and week out.
I think Milan is at a point beyond a little upgrade here and there, it needs house cleaning from top to bottom.

Originally Posted by Koeke

I would like to know how much milan directors/coaches/scouts talked to him before that trip or what was said by Leo and Gal...

There are 2 options either Gorky felt that milan don't belive enough in him or Gorky doesn't belive in him self. Since I doubt Bourdeaux to be his last team I think it's the the first.

Besides we have some problems persuading players to come here other than Brazilians. Remember last year we had a deal for Hugo Lloris but he chose Lyon instead of Milan.
Maybe Leo's French isn't that good after all and he can only use the swearwords.

Well, we can't be sure exactly how much they talked to him before that visit. Personally, I doubt it was enough as Gourcuff himself said around halfway through the system that no one from Milan had even contacted him.

In all honesty, we can't guarantee him CL football next season yet (Bordeaux can), we can't guarantee him first team football (Bordeaux can), we didn't appear to show much interest in him until fairly recently (he's Bordeaux's hero) and he didn't exactly have a positive time when he was with us (. On top of that, everyone knows Domenech is biased against Italy based players, which would hamper Gourcuff's world cup hopes. lol, Can we blame him for leaving?

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Pirlo at this stage for 20MIl pounds is a great deal.
What about Mrs. Carlo, Slowdorf, he is worth at least 8mil pounds.
Pls also bring Kaladze too.

Can't wait to see that happen

Just one more thing, was Gourcuff 15Mil Euro or pounds?

As you know I'm well against Pirlo leaving Milan, but the other two I'd let leave without too much thought.

Gourcuff was 15m euros.

Well, let's take a look at this list:

Originally Posted by K77SH C

We sold Shevchenko and replaced him with Oliveira

Who, it turned out wasn't quite healthy enough to contribute, so we replaced him with Pato. A young, dynamic Pato to replace an aging Sheva? Not a bad deal.

We tried to sell Kaka and replaced him with Ronaldinio

Milan didn't try to sell Kaka. And Ronaldinho didn't replace him.

We loaned Gourcuff and replaced him with Emerson

Emerson was brought in long before Gourcuff was loaned out. And he was hardly a "replacement" for Gourcuff. Hyperbole doesn't help your case any.

We have sold Gourcuff and effectively replaced him with Beckham

Beckham is on loan. He still belongs to the Galaxy. And unlike Gourcuff, he was able to win a spot in the starting lineup most weeks (and played much better than Gourcuff ever did for Milan). How can both Emerson and Beckham be replacements for Gourcuff when Gourcuff wasn't even playing all that much in his second year at Milan?

We have lost Serghinio and replaced him with a midfielder - Janku

Serginho is 38 years old. So now you're complaining that Milan's squad isn't old enough?

We have lost Nesta and Maldini and replaced them with Thiago (Unproven), Bonera(Unworthy), Favalli (Unyoung), Senderos (uneverything)

Nesta was injured. Maldini will retire in his 40s. This season isn't even over yet, so why not wait and see who plays in central defense in August before you jump off a bridge or something.


We lost Dida (to form) and replaced him with Abbiati who flopped for us in the past and now we are back depending on Dida

Abbiati was fantastic before he got hurt. What do you want?


We lost Cafu, many of us hoped for Alves or a young replacement, we got Zambro who will need part-exchangig soon

Cafu is 39. Compared to him, Zambrotta (who is 32) is a young replacement. And Zambrotta has played great for Milan. Some have called Felipe "the new Cafu." Why not let an excellent player like Zambrotta hold down the fort until Felipe is ready? It would be stupid to throw around $20 million or more on the "world class" right back you want when there's already a likely future one waiting in the wings. What do you do with Felipe then?

We can sell Pirlo, but if you guys think we are going to get someone like Iniesta or Xavi then you are on another planet.

Why does a replacement for Pirlo have to be one of the top handful of midfielders in the world? It's always fantasy football with some of you guys. You want something that will look impressive on paper and you want it now. What would be so terrible about replacing Pirlo with someone such as Hernanes?

The club is in rot.Another poster once posted the phrase - "One stitch in time, saves nine". In a team of 11 players we literally only have two world class players we can pin our hopes on for the next 5 years (Kaka and Pato). The other 9 stiches are broken!!

So every player except Kaka and Pato sucks?

I have been saying since last summer this management does not have a clue. There is not strategy, no direction, insufficient finances to fund world class transfers and no tactics. We are in no better than Firoentina or Roma. The only players who are under 30 of world class ability in our entire squad are Pato and Kaka. Does that not bring home the message that under the current management we have no future as a World giant anymore. Inter Milan and Juventus will share the Italian championship for the next 10 years and Barca + EPL teams will share the CL trophies.

More hyperbole. Very few clubs have more than two players who are as good as Kaka and Pato. You can count them on one hand. Again, this is not fantasy football. Milan is not Chelsea. Milan is not Manchester City. To just be throwing money around on big name players is not a strategy or a direction.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

What's the point to loan him elsewhere than France (or Italy) ??
His family is in France, he is French, he always played in France except when he came to Milan, so France was the right country for him, don't you think so ? About this rule with clauses in loan contracts, it's false, loans can be done in France without any option to buy the player at the end ...

Then my post is irrelevant if the clause was not obligated. If it was ( hipotetically ) then we could have loaned him to some serie a club.

About Berlusconi and C.Ronaldo, Silvio will offer 12 mln to United and maybe Boriello...

And about Pirlo: I expect him to play better once he needs to work for his place. I do expect Seedorf to leave Milan if Carlo leaves next week. But I wouldnt sell Pirlo unless Milan has someone like Fabregas in mind to replace him.

A player to replace Seedorf, however, could be Hernanes at the price around 15mln.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Well, I understand your point, but just want you to know. I had been one of those who kept saying as long as we bring back Gourcuff, Abate and DiGennero our midfield is pretty set.

What I don't understand your point of view is that you believe Milan is bringing in players to replace the existing ones, well, with the exception of Pato and T. Silva, who have they brought in that can replace the existing players, better yet, do they even have a chance to prove themselves?
Flamini is probably one of the best DM in the world last season, what happened to him if Gattuso and Ambrosini were healthy, he was stuck on the bench behind Emerson. If he cannot adapt to RB, he would not even be playing esp since Beckham is here. Then there is Dinho, for all his fitness woes, he is always behind Seedorf for play time, despite the fact that Seedorf is pure crap. Mattioni is suppose to be the next big RB coming out of Brazil, he got what 5 mins official game time.
What about Bonera, who I think everyone here would agree is a much better player than Kaladze and Senderous, maybe he is injured all the time this year, but the fact that he is behind Kaladze and Senderous show you something about Carlo as a coach. Also, he is hardly a replacement for Nesta or Maldini, heck, he is not even close to the likes of Stam and Billy.
I am not going to get into Viudez, Cardacio and Darmain as I can't really judge them based on the few minutes I saw them play.


Now ofcourse it would be great if Milan can just go out and sign Santacroce, Srna, Canini, De Rossi, C7, Benzema and other WC players in one summer. But to me, as long as guys like Seedorf, Kaladze, Dida, Sheva, Senderous and even the likes of Pirlo and Janku leaves and Milan only recall all its players
like Abate, De Gennaro, Polashi, and give play time to Darmian, Mattioni, Cardacio, Alberterzzi, Viudez and even Strassuer. I could careless if we finish in the 10th spot b/c I would no longer need to see players play without passion, intensity, and heart and only shows up and do crap but still play week in and week out.

All I want to see are players who play with all they have and shows that they want to win and not players who just walk around the pitch and earn a big fat paycheck while people still defend them by saying, hey, blame the MGT for giving out stupid contracts and not the players.

It truly was a disgrace that the players did not even show up for the match against Roma until the 65mins or so. Thats need to be stop.

For me, I do want guys like Dida, Seedorf and others like them to be gone from Milan, as I think they are not worthy to play for a team like us as they just lack the passion week in and week out.
I think Milan is at a point beyond a little upgrade here and there, it needs house cleaning from top to bottom.

Well, I suppose I'm looking more at the long picture. I would not mind seeing Seedorf go either. Favali as well. And Dida (although he was valuable after Abbiati was injured). Certainly Sheva is just taking up a roster space, but he's a Chelsea player on loan and can be sent back easy enough. I don't even think Ronaldinho is necessary. I wouldn't even complain if Pirlo followed Carlo to Chelsea if Milan could get a good price for him. But when you start talking about a "house cleaning from top to bottom" it sounds as though you'd also like to get rid of Gattuso, Ambrosini, Janku, Zambrotta, Nesta, etc., as well as Pirlo and Ronaldinho.

Most of those players still have some good football left in them. It would seem to me that players such as Thiago, Felipe, Cardacio, Viudez, etc., should be ready to replace some of the older players over the next few years if Milan's scouts were right about them. Cardacio (a creative midfielder in the Pirlo mold) and Viudez (who was only 17 when he was Cardacio's teammate in the U-20 World Cup in 2007) are considered two of South America's most promising young talents.

Originally Posted by mrki

But I wouldnt sell Pirlo unless Milan has someone like Fabregas in mind to replace him.

I agree with this. There arent many players who can replace Pirlo in right manner. Those who can a hard to acquire. We need Pirlo, he gave as an edge before, he can do it again.