Summer mercato 2009

Originally Posted by ZvonimirBoban

There is a difference between sign any player you want and sign players at any price. Kaka' and CR are worth of their tag price, but really I did not see (yet) Cissokho as worthy as 15M. Everybody here wants Dzeko I think, but will you be happy if Milan spend all of the money from Kaka's sale to get him?

If you think Kaka and Ronaldo are really worth what Real Madrid paid for them, fine. It's your opinion. I don't think any player is truly worth that much money. Real also seems to be paying 40 million for Villa (overpaying by quite a lot in this instance as well). But do you really think Ronaldo is twice as good a player as Villa? Is he three times as good as Carlos Tevez or five times as good as Antonio Valencia? Is Kaka really three times as good as Dzeko?

Remember, these are individuals playing in a team game. Any player can be replaced and there are times when a player with less raw talent might be just as valuable or even more valuable to a team. So you can throw crazy money at big stars like Ronaldo and Kaka and hope they fit into some sort of cohesive unit. Or you can depend on your scouting and your coach's eye for talent by purchasing players who have a chance to be great (and who you believe will fit into what you want to do) while you can still get them relatively cheap. Not all of them work out, of course (neither do all the big star purchases work out -- ask Manchester United about Veron), but you can buy a Dzeko (by the way, Milan won't spend all the money they got from Kaka on Dzeko) and a Cissokho (for probably 10 or 11 million as Porto turned down 8 and is asking for 14, but the player apparently wants to move to Milan) for what the market determines and still have half your Kaka money left for other players. If you do it right, you can greatly improve your team, even if none of the players you purchase are as good as Kaka (yet).

Well, if players are only value for their on field performance, no one is worth more than 40M.
But in today's world, their worth is more to do with their sell appeal than anything. CR7 and Kaka are players that will create buzz for themselves, their team and players around them.

Originally Posted by Rick

If you think Kaka and Ronaldo are really worth what Real Madrid paid for them, fine. It's your opinion. I don't think any player is truly worth that much money. Real also seems to be paying 40 million for Villa (overpaying by quite a lot in this instance as well). But do you really think Ronaldo is twice as good a player as Villa? Is he three times as good as Carlos Tevez or five times as good as Antonio Valencia? Is Kaka really three times as good as Dzeko?

Remember, these are individuals playing in a team game. Any player can be replaced and there are times when a player with less raw talent might be just as valuable or even more valuable to a team. So you can throw crazy money at big stars like Ronaldo and Kaka and hope they fit into some sort of cohesive unit. Or you can depend on your scouting and your coach's eye for talent by purchasing players who have a chance to be great (and who you believe will fit into what you want to do) while you can still get them relatively cheap. Not all of them work out, of course (neither do all the big star purchases work out -- ask Manchester United about Veron), but you can buy a Dzeko (by the way, Milan won't spend all the money they got from Kaka on Dzeko) and a Cissokho (for probably 10 or 11 million as Porto turned down 8 and is asking for 14, but the player apparently wants to move to Milan) for what the market determines and still have half your Kaka money left for other players. If you do it right, you can greatly improve your team, even if none of the players you purchase are as good as Kaka (yet).

In a market economy everything is worth what its buyer is willing to pay for it. So if Real are willing to pay 65M for Kakà and 93M for Cristiano Ronaldo, they are worth it.

But as you mention in the second half of your post, "you can greatly improve your team, even if none of the players you purchase are as good as Kaka (yet)" ... So instead of buying Kakà for 65M you can buy Dzeko and two "equivalent players to him" in other roles, and surely that might benefit the team more than just Kakà. I totally agree with what you are saying.

good post Rick!

Look at our star players! (before kaka left )
Kaka - came for 8m, wasnt a proven star!
Pato - came as a youngster, only play 1 season the first team of internacional!
Pirlo - came as a talented youngster who was on the bench at inter
Gattuso - came from salernitana I think, what did he prove before joining us.
Nesta - star player
Flamini - only 1 good season at arsenal, before a bench player.

This is the way you build a team IMO, not by buying proven stars, ok sometimes you need to, look at nesta, that was a massive transfer and our defence went a level up!

we should go on like this!
Thiago Silva - 8m!!!!! this could be a steal guys
Cissokho - 13m Sounds very promising!

this is some good scouting, it is not nessaceraly to buy proven stars.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Well, if players are only value for their on field performance, no one is worth more than 40M.
But in today's world, their worth is more to do with their sell appeal than anything. CR7 and Kaka are players that will create buzz for themselves, their team and players around them.

Temporarily. Maybe Real Madrid will make enough off Ronaldo, Kaka and Villa to justify 190 million euros, but in this economy I don't think that's certain. Certainly if the economy gets worse, it will be doubtful because $100 is a lot to spend on a jersey. The majority of people who buy Real Madrid jerseys would buy them with another player's name if Ronaldo, Kaka and Villa weren't there. And the luster will wear off. If selling jerseys and getting publicity were the important thing, Beckham would still be there. All you're really doing is trying to make money off plastic fans who are fans of the player and not the team. If it were that easy to make money just off having big names then everybody would be throwing the same sort of crazy money around to do it. Real Madrid was 500 million euros in debt even before these moves. Now they've paid (or are about to pay) another 190 million for three players (and that doesn't even include the salary costs). There comes a time when you reach a point of diminishing returns.

Originally Posted by Gio-mania

In a market economy everything is worth what its buyer is willing to pay for it. So if Real are willing to pay 65M for Kakà and 93M for Cristiano Ronaldo, they are worth it.

I don't know about you, but I've bought plenty of things in my life that I realized later weren't at all worth the price I paid for them. The market is what it is -- but that doesn't mean the market makes sense. There are times when a $30,000 Toyota will get you the same place as a $300,000 Ferrari.

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

good post Rick!

Look at our star players! (before kaka left )
Kaka - came for 8m, wasnt a proven star!
Pato - came as a youngster, only play 1 season the first team of internacional!
Pirlo - came as a talented youngster who was on the bench at inter
Gattuso - came from salernitana I think, what did he prove before joining us.
Nesta - star player
Flamini - only 1 good season at arsenal, before a bench player.

This is the way you build a team IMO, not by buying proven stars, ok sometimes you need to, look at nesta, that was a massive transfer and our defence went a level up!

we should go on like this!
Thiago Silva - 8m!!!!! this could be a steal guys
Cissokho - 13m Sounds very promising!

this is some good scouting, it is not nessaceraly to buy proven stars.

Thanks Felipez! Good post there as well. Milan has always been good at finding promising players and making them great. Hopefully that won't change.

These cissokho-Dzeko-hernanes-Miranda transfers giving me hope again! hope it isnt all rumours. Maybe selling kaka wasnt too bad (this sounds wrong), but sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward again

what selling kaka Filipez 182 has done is made sure that Milan are really going to struggle to pick any trophy next season. Dzeko hernanes miranda and cissokho are still incomplete players but after a season or two they will start to reach their peak and than milan will be winning trophies again. It would be nice in the future to see a Milan side with pato paloshci abate dzeko hernanes cissokho and merchatti all on top of their games but is it worth scarifying the present team.

Originally Posted by johncharles365

what selling kaka Filipez 182 has made sure that Milan are really going to struggle to pick any trophy next season. Dzeko hernanes miranda and cissokho are still incomplete players but after a season or two they will start to reach their peak and than milan we be winning trophies. I would be nice in the future to see a Milan side with pato paloshci abate dzeko hernanes cissokho and merchatti all on top of their games but is it worth scarifying the present team.

I dont know, but one thing is for sure, something needed to change!! the way we were doing was crap and sad to watch.
Much will depend on who we will sign! If we could get Dzeko, Hernanes (only if the EU rule changes), Cissokho, Santacroce/Miranda for example, I dont see why we shouldnt be playing for the scudetto...
At least we cant be more away from it than we did in recent years


anyway, I'm going to watch a dvd, the dark knight ciao!

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

good post Rick!

Look at our star players! (before kaka left )
Kaka - came for 8m, wasnt a proven star!
Pato - came as a youngster, only play 1 season the first team of internacional!
Pirlo - came as a talented youngster who was on the bench at inter
Gattuso - came from salernitana I think, what did he prove before joining us.
Nesta - star player
Flamini - only 1 good season at arsenal, before a bench player.

This is the way you build a team IMO, not by buying proven stars, ok sometimes you need to, look at nesta, that was a massive transfer and our defence went a level up!

we should go on like this!
Thiago Silva - 8m!!!!! this could be a steal guys
Cissokho - 13m Sounds very promising!

this is some good scouting, it is not nessaceraly to buy proven stars.

100% agree. Just like stocks buy low sell high.

I dont know why we need to go for huge names. Young and Potential is my recipe. Let our veterans give them guidance on/off the field and they will grow.

As you know mostly experienced teams seem to prosper in Serie A even Napoli have a couple of oldies in their ranks. I think Milan will have a real go at winning Serie A next season with new tactics and new players we could be a completely different team. Still i am getting the nagging feeling that next year is going to be tough and juventus might take the serie a crown ahead of inter and milan. The opposition teams are buying some top players and we are buying promising youngsters. Hopefully Dinho will sparkle next season that is going to determine the success milan rather than Dzeko and co. unless hernanes turns out to be just as good as Kaka in 2004

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

good post Rick!

Look at our star players! (before kaka left )
Kaka - came for 8m, wasnt a proven star!
Pato - came as a youngster, only play 1 season the first team of internacional!
Pirlo - came as a talented youngster who was on the bench at inter
Gattuso - came from salernitana I think, what did he prove before joining us.
Nesta - star player
Flamini - only 1 good season at arsenal, before a bench player.

This is the way you build a team IMO, not by buying proven stars, ok sometimes you need to, look at nesta, that was a massive transfer and our defence went a level up!

we should go on like this!
Thiago Silva - 8m!!!!! this could be a steal guys
Cissokho - 13m Sounds very promising!

this is some good scouting, it is not nessaceraly to buy proven stars.

I'm very disappointed that all of you have misunderstood the meaning of my previous post. I don't want proven stars, I'm not objecting in purchase of raw, unproven, potential talents, my point was as you said in this post:

Kaka' came with just 8M, Gattuso and Pirlo came very cheap (less than 1M, correct me if I'm wrong), FLAMINI was FREE... That's what I'd call a steal. We can't throw our cash to all potential players we see... Otherwise we would splash the 40M for Hernanes as the fcuked guy from Sao Paolo wanted, throw another 30M for Dzeko, etc, etc. I mean, how much we bought Shevchenko for? Kaka'? Gattuso? Pirlo? Flamini? That's what I'd call a steal!

Originally Posted by johncharles365

I doubt cissokho will go for 15 million euros even Porto value him at 11 million euros i think a bit of negotiation is called for. This isn't like the brochi or emerson or ronaldo or even shevchenko deals this player is worth 8 or 9 million euros and in addition he will not be slow and useless. As for borriello true the highest goal count in a season he got before genoa was 10 goals he still is a regular goal scorer when he isn't injured maybe 13-16 goals a season. I do believe he has changed after his slap across the knuckles for drugs scandal he works harder and provide a physical presence in the box. Don't be so quick to discount him he has a lot to prove at Milan and will fight for the team. To reply to ZvonimirBoban you right Zambrotta price tag was retarded he really only worth 7 million euros at the most. He was bought to appease the fans and more importantly apparently buying him stopped Berluconi going after grosso who would probably fail in a Milan shirt. Any way Di Gennaro hasn't been that fantastic only really performing against Milan maybe he has something to prove.

The best performance of Borriello's in the league I can find besides Genoa was 5 goals for Treviso one season. Could you tell me when he scored 10? The thing is, I want us to keep him as he is useful. However, I'm also realistic and I don't expect him to keep up the level of performance that we saw in Genoa given his track record.

Originally Posted by brk

When you consider that we bought Kaka from them for peanuts (slightly cheaper than bananas) and sold him for 60 million pounds, you start to understand this guys frustration.

lol, first thought that came into my head when reading that story was whether he was the owner when we got Kaka.

Originally Posted by nefremo

Who is this clown from Sao Paulo insulting Milan. Does he balance our books that he knows how much it would take to put us in the green???

And 35mil POUNDS for Hernanes????? I thought Aulas was crazy, but this Brazilian hero looks like he wants to get reach over night. What has Hernanes done to even demand a 20mil price? Unbelievable and such disrespectful comments. With 35mil pounds (42mil Euro) you can probably be in contention to buy a player such as Ribery.

I know that figures shouldn't always be taken so seriously, but this clown has really got me going with the disrespect he has shown to us......also with the crates of bananas he mentioned.

I don't think there's any need for us to worry tbh. It could be sour grapes to do with how much we recently got for Kaka but I think most likely he's attempting to drive up the value of these guys as much as possible. Everyone knows that Hernanes is a likely target for us should our plans change this summer (i.e. we don't get Dzeko) or should the new rule be put in place in Italian football. When we come knocking on his door, I'm sure he'll want to get as much from us as possible. However, I'm also sure when we do come knocking at his door, he'll be very hospitable and the big man attitude we see today will change dramatically.

treviso 2001-2002 27 appearances 10 goals, i cant seem to remember whether they were in Serie a that season. Since his move Genoa he is been a changed player i hope that he has a spell without injuries so he can show you and other milan fans that he is someone who can score 10-15 goals a season.

Originally Posted by johncharles365

what selling kaka Filipez 182 has done is made sure that Milan are really going to struggle to pick any trophy next season. Dzeko hernanes miranda and cissokho are still incomplete players but after a season or two they will start to reach their peak and than milan will be winning trophies again. It would be nice in the future to see a Milan side with pato paloshci abate dzeko hernanes cissokho and merchatti all on top of their games but is it worth scarifying the present team.

But how many trophies has Milan won the past two seasons with Kaka? There were too many problems with this team to realistically expect a Scudetto or a Champions League title next season whether Kaka was on the team or not. Kaka is only a player. No player, not even Pele or Maradona, could ever win championships singlehandedly. It was time to rebuild.