Summer mercato 2009

Originally Posted by Siregar

I don't know the reasons your wrote it, probably the goals difference Dzeko and Grafite made in Bundesliga.

Grafite scored 28 goals from 25 games while Dzeko 26 from 32 games but 8 goals were made by Grafite from penalty kick while all goals from Dzeko were none from PK.

It's true that Grafite made more goals (from all competitions including German Cup and UEFA Cup) compare to Dzeko but Dzeko is much younger than Grafite. We should look at such players like Dzeko, quality young players (but not so young) who are not yet on the top of the world. Dzeko could be one-season wonder but Milan should take the risk otherwise Milan won't be able to get him because of his price if he starts to do the same like he did last season.

Siregar, I watched 90% of Wolfsburg games(even with Graffite as a sub), and thats why I said Graffiti outplayed Dzeko. I´m not talking only about numbers, I´m talking about who played better...and the journey man Graffite played better than Dzeko.

As I said in another post, and people didn´t understood, I´m not asking for Milan to buy Graffite, as I don´t want him on Milan. But I´m just not convinced with Dzeko game(the numbers are great).

If Milan to buy Dzeko, I will support him all the way, but I can´t agree that 30M is a good price for him. It´s a lot of Money for a player...and I´m not talking this because he had just one big year, but because he wasn´t even the man of the attack. Thats my reason...

When I hyped Pato here, he was a 6 month wonder...but a 6 month wonder that was the man of his team with just 16 years old. I hope that you understand my knock on to buy Dzeko for 30M, even if you don´t agree

Originally Posted by brk

Great post, Samaldinho. Although i'm sure most people will still demand instant satisfaction and don't realize that the transfer window ends late August (it hasn't even opened yet!)

I may be guilty of lowering my expectations, but I think it's only fair, seeing as how we are restructuring. I also seem to be on the side that apologizes for the management more than usual, and I agree with Samaldinho that we should not even bother judging Galliani's performance until after the market closes. We should talk about players, and how they will fit the team.

actually, brk, we were saying that last year here. and the one before that. and in 2006. we all know how those mercatos ended. when is enough? almost all good transfers happen in this period. based on previous years, we're in for a loooong summer of dissapointment.

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Siregar, I watched 90% of Wolfsburg games(even with Graffite as a sub), and thats why I said Graffiti outplayed Dzeko. I´m not talking only about numbers, I´m talking about who played better...and the journey man Graffite played better than Dzeko.

As I said in another post, and people didn´t understood, I´m not asking for Milan to buy Graffite, as I don´t want him on Milan. But I´m just not convinced with Dzeko game(the numbers are great).

If Milan to buy Dzeko, I will support him all the way, but I can´t agree that 30M is a good price for him. It´s a lot of Money for a player...and I´m not talking this because he had just one big year, but because he wasn´t even the man of the attack. Thats my reason...

When I hyped Pato here, he was a 6 month wonder...but a 6 month wonder that was the man of his team with just 16 years old. I hope that you understand my knock on to buy Dzeko for 30M, even if you don´t agree

The only reason why Dzeko is costing Milan 30 million, is because we just sold Kaka for a world-record fee. Is he really worth that much? In this market, maybe, but that is why Milan is offering 20 million, which is what he's worth.

Look, just because Grafite played better than Dzeko, does not mean anything. I'd hope that Grafite could, he has more experience and this really is Dzeko coming to be the player that he has been expected to be for quite a while. At 23 he is young and he obviously has the skill, and I don't see the point in talking about how Grafite is better than Dzeko, at the end of the day Dzeko is younger, has more potential and can grow into a better player.

Pato was by no means that superstar of that Internacional team, he definatley was a major part and a star, but to make him sound like a one-man team is not only misleading but also making him sound like a very different player.

In short, he played 25 games scoring 12 goals in the season before he was acquired by Milan, and at 17, there was every chance that he'd not adapt to European style football, let alone succumb to the pressure of being a teenage star at one of the biggest clubs in the world (that's us, ps)

The German League tends to be one that allows players to adapt to other leagues very easily, I don't know why, it just has turned out this way. Can you think of any major flops from the Bundesliga to other leagues? I can't.

So the question you should ask yourself, what is a bigger risk, a 17 year old who played a good season for 18 million, or a 23 year old who's played in Europe very well the last year for around 25 million?

Pato was a superstar in a different way in Brazil. He was a boy wonder, and a superstar in that way.

And I would also add that I dont understand why people underrate Huntelaar so much. The man has unreal goal numbers, even his time in Madrid was superb. I dont see in which part of the game Dzeko is much better then Hunter. Maybe Im wrong, if someone has a way of explaining it Im opened for discussion...

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

The only reason why Dzeko is costing Milan 30 million, is because we just sold Kaka for a world-record fee. Is he really worth that much? In this market, maybe, but that is why Milan is offering 20 million, which is what he's worth.

Look, just because Grafite played better than Dzeko, does not mean anything. I'd hope that Grafite could, he has more experience and this really is Dzeko coming to be the player that he has been expected to be for quite a while. At 23 he is young and he obviously has the skill, and I don't see the point in talking about how Grafite is better than Dzeko, at the end of the day Dzeko is younger, has more potential and can grow into a better player.

Pato was by no means that superstar of that Internacional team, he definatley was a major part and a star, but to make him sound like a one-man team is not only misleading but also making him sound like a very different player.

In short, he played 25 games scoring 12 goals in the season before he was acquired by Milan, and at 17, there was every chance that he'd not adapt to European style football, let alone succumb to the pressure of being a teenage star at one of the biggest clubs in the world (that's us, ps)

The German League tends to be one that allows players to adapt to other leagues very easily, I don't know why, it just has turned out this way. Can you think of any major flops from the Bundesliga to other leagues? I can't.

So the question you should ask yourself, what is a bigger risk, a 17 year old who played a good season for 18 million, or a 23 year old who's played in Europe very well the last year for around 25 million?

You talk about misleading, and uses Pato´s stats at Intenacional to try to proves me wrong? Fair enough...

You are trying to ridicularize my post using Pato´s numbers, and thats alone shows me that you only saw Pato to play 2 or 3 times(against Barcelona for sure) for Internacional. Because if not, you should know that Pato, after the Wold Club Championship, became the man of Inter team. They sell Fernandão and the kid put the team on the back. Yep, he was the superstar of the team even if you don´t believe. You can go to a Internacional forum and ask the fans before acuses me.

Like in Milan this year, even without scoring, his runs opened several defenses in Brazil and Souh America. He was a threat everytime that touched the ball. Just because he didn´t score more than 20 goals didn´t mean that he wasn´t the man of the team. Like I said, only people that watched Internacional games know the impact of Pato......

Regarding your questions...I stick with the 16 years old that was the men for a big team in Brazil(he used to the pressure of a big team), than a 23 year old that played in a up and coming team in Germany.

But it´s ok, when I wrote in "kaka´s father thread" that Pato was must buy( and he had a disapoint under-20 WC) several people bashed the boy(and my post). I´m used to this since 2003 when I praised Alex here in MM(after Roque Junior debacle) and people called me crazy saying that Senderos, Ferrari, Bonera, Mexes were best purchases. Now the new "Roque Junior" is what he is and the others...

The time is the best medicine...

I respect if you watched Wolfsburg games and think Dzeco was the best forward of the team, fair enough. But please, don´t try to say that I was lying calling Pato the superstar of Internacional, when you clearly didn´t watch all the games...thats not fair.

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Siregar, I watched 90% of Wolfsburg games(even with Graffite as a sub), and thats why I said Graffiti outplayed Dzeko. I´m not talking only about numbers, I´m talking about who played better...and the journey man Graffite played better than Dzeko.

As I said in another post, and people didn´t understood, I´m not asking for Milan to buy Graffite, as I don´t want him on Milan. But I´m just not convinced with Dzeko game(the numbers are great).

If Milan to buy Dzeko, I will support him all the way, but I can´t agree that 30M is a good price for him. It´s a lot of Money for a player...and I´m not talking this because he had just one big year, but because he wasn´t even the man of the attack. Thats my reason...

When I hyped Pato here, he was a 6 month wonder...but a 6 month wonder that was the man of his team with just 16 years old. I hope that you understand my knock on to buy Dzeko for 30M, even if you don´t agree

I agree about the price. 30 mil are too much for Dzeko. But I think he should be Milan top priority for striker. Except what he did last year, he is young and can be paid pretty cheap for the wages, around 2 mil euros per year. Ade will ask much more wages, at least 3-4 mil euros and so is Luis Fabiano. Fabiano will be also 29 soon (born November 1980) and Milan shouldn't waste so much money for player in this age if Milan really want to build a squad with limited budget (transfer and wages).

Originally Posted by mrki

Pato was a superstar in a different way in Brazil. He was a boy wonder, and a superstar in that way.

And I would also add that I dont understand why people underrate Huntelaar so much. The man has unreal goal numbers, even his time in Madrid was superb. I dont see in which part of the game Dzeko is much better then Hunter. Maybe Im wrong, if someone has a way of explaining it Im opened for discussion...

Yep, mrki...it´s like last season. If you look only for Pato numbers, you don´t have ideia how big was his impact at Milan performancens, even in the days that the boy didn´t score.

I wasn´t that high in Huntelaar, because against PSV(great defense at that time) he wasn´t the same. But this year in Madrid he shows a much better performance. I realy can´t say whats better in Dzeko than Huntelaar...

Originally Posted by Siregar

I agree about the price. 30 mil are too much for Dzeko. But I think he should be Milan top priority for striker. Except what he did last year, he is young and can be paid pretty cheap for the wages, around 2 mil euros per year. Ade will ask much more wages, at least 3-4 mil euros and so is Luis Fabiano. Fabiano will be also 29 soon (born November 1980) and Milan shouldn't waste so much money for player in this age if Milan really want to build a squad with limited budget (transfer and wages).

I got your point.
I´m not a fan of Ade and agree that EPL wages are hard to match, but this politice of our board(good and cheap) are madness.

Sure, we paid surreal wages for average players, but the only experince that saw of a big club trying to use the "good and cheap" politice was a disaster in Brazil. Palmeiras try to sell this idea, to stay only with cheap wages and after 2 years was relegated for the second division. We just need to be smart and don´t give star wages for averages player...

Regarding Luis Fabiano, you made a good point, but since I know how professional he is(and hard worker), I can see him play at a high level until 33 or 34. Now, the problem is the price Sevilla will ask...

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

I got your point.
I´m not a fan of Ade and agree that EPL wages are hard to match, but this politice of our board(good and cheap) are madness.

Sure, we paid surreal wages for average players, but the only experince that saw of a big club trying to use the "good and cheap" politice was a disaster in Brazil. Palmeiras try to sell this idea, to stay only with cheap wages and after 2 years was relegated for the second division. We just need to be smart and don´t give star wages for averages player...

Regarding Luis Fabiano, you made a good point, but since I know how professional he is(and hard worker), I can see him play at a high level until 33 or 34. Now, the problem is the price Sevilla will ask...

I know, we can't be a cheap club. We must be much smarter at managing our players' wages and Gattuso's recent contract's renewal (with wages cut) is a good first step.

What I want to emphasize is that Milan good striker and Milan are in a bad economic situation. We need need striker and if possible with low wages (but high for small-medium clubs). If for example we give a young player already 3-4 mil euros per year, we can imagine how much Milan will pay him in the next 2 years for contract extension.

About Luis Fabiano, he could play in top form until 33 years old but still buying a 29-year-old striker for much money (with of course high wages) is not what Milan should do in these days. With kind of that money (for transfer) Milan should target younger striker IMO.

I like watching Fabiano against USA, he is a real target man. But he is too expensive and 'old' for Milan now IMO. If only Milan were like a couple of years ago regarding their transfer budget.

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

You talk about misleading, and uses Pato´s stats at Intenacional to try to proves me wrong? Fair enough...

You are trying to ridicularize my post using Pato´s numbers, and thats alone shows me that you only saw Pato to play 2 or 3 times(against Barcelona for sure) for Internacional. Because if not, you should know that Pato, after the Wold Club Championship, became the man of Inter team. They sell Fernandão and the kid put the team on the back. Yep, he was the superstar of the team even if you don´t believe. You can go to a Internacional forum and ask the fans before acuses me.

Like in Milan this year, even without scoring, his runs opened several defenses in Brazil and Souh America. He was a threat everytime that touched the ball. Just because he didn´t score more than 20 goals didn´t mean that he wasn´t the man of the team. Like I said, only people that watched Internacional games know the impact of Pato......

Regarding your questions...I stick with the 16 years old that was the men for a big team in Brazil(he used to the pressure of a big team), than a 23 year old that played in a up and coming team in Germany.

But it´s ok, when I wrote in "kaka´s father thread" that Pato was must buy( and he had a disapoint under-20 WC) several people bashed the boy(and my post). I´m used to this since 2003 when I praised Alex here in MM(after Roque Junior debacle) and people called me crazy saying that Senderos, Ferrari, Bonera, Mexes were best purchases. Now the new "Roque Junior" is what he is and the others...

The time is the best medicine...

I respect if you watched Wolfsburg games and think Dzeco was the best forward of the team, fair enough. But please, don´t try to say that I was lying calling Pato the superstar of Internacional, when you clearly didn´t watch all the games...thats not fair.

Listen, before you start name-calling and saying that I'm calling you a liar, please calm down, that is why there are so many stupid fights because people talk about other people rather than their ideas.

Now, I am a huge Pato supporter, and I actually did watch Pato (since I knew he would play my local team Al Ahly) but what I was trying to say was not to doubt Pato, obviously he has shown that he tremendous potential.

What I was saying that if you rewind a bit, the doubts that people have over Dzeko are similar (not in the concerns, but in the amount of "what ifs?" that surrounded the player) so that to suddenly talk about Dzeko as some sort of one-hit-wonder is a valid concern, but at 23, and seeing how he has simply had confidence in himself, he certainly seems to be a destined to be a great striker.

Not every player can burst onto the scene at 17, and some are late-bloomers, take Didier Drogba, for instance. Or maybe even Luca Toni?

I think you should stop talking about other people, and leaping to conclusions about what they know, what they watch, and so on, because it is what has led this forum, which is supposed to be full of fans who are all together for the same team, to start yelling and saying terrible things about each other.

Just because Pato could play well for Internacional, and saying that he could play "under pressure" and to say that Dzeko only had an "up-and-coming" team is not fair. Dzeko was playing for a team chasing the championship, and the Bundesliga has a tremendous amount of pressure and when it comes to top attendance, out of the top 25 stadiums on average attendance, 9 of them come from Germany.

Furthermore, Dzeko played against Milan, and he obviously did something to impress the directors and probably Leonardo, who as we all know, has a great eye for talent. Including Pato.

Do I think Dzeko is a savior? No. I do think he will give Milan the sort of striker that we have needed for those tough games when a team locks up on us, and frankly speaking, stats mean very little in football, and I just hope that if Dzeko does come, he does well.

SO a few more pages of yet again no signing.

Thats awesome.

I just read that someone said it was easier for Juve and Inter to identify target b/c they are not rebuilding....well, Milan was no rebuilding after the SHeva's sale, nor after the CL win in 07, and yet, did they even sign anyone who is a main fix of the team now beside Pato???? To me it shows that the MGT look at things in the short term instead of have a plan for the long term.

Now I do hope that Leo can change that and that everyone Leo signs will turn out just like how Kaka and Pato turned out but other teams are no fool. If we know that Leo has a great eye for talent, won't they know it too. IF they also know that, would it make sense for them to just jack up the price on all Milan interest players?

What I am saying is that, MIlan should have got players like Cissohko, Dzeko or G. Rossi when they were the team to BEAT in Europe instead of now. It would have been much easier but they missed their chances.

Hmmm, I really wonder what we're going to do if we can't compete salary-wise with other so-called big clubs? How long can we hold on to Pato, if Chelsea or Real Madrid offer him double what we're paying him? It may end up being another Kaka situation---either match the contract or the player will ask to leave....Salary caps are no where on the horizon in the near future. I hope Berlu/Galliani have some sort of a plan, otherwise we may end up being the Italian Arsenal---sign good young players, and then lose them at their prime simply because we cannot compete with other teams' wage offers...

Another thought---how is it that teams like Leeds, Lazio who have been financially mis-handled have a sudden crash and go from title contenders, regular CL participants to average teams (and in Leeds case, out of the EPL), and then you have teams like Real Madrid who have always been financially irresponsible---Perez in his first reign spent hundreds of millions. Calderon spent close to 100 M every summer he was there, and now Perez II are spending even more, at a time when the economics are going the other way...Why is it that they are not going under??

B/c teams like Real were owned by great men with vision. Men who actually bought lands for investments instead of paying models for his orgy parties. Whenever Real is in financial crisis, they just sell off their land(above market price) back to the city council. Then buy land from the city council(below market price) and save it for the future.

So that means the city, ie tax payers are paying for their players??