Summer mercato 2009

Personally I think Milan lost more than just two players this summer, they actually lost their leader and their go-to man. On top of that, I don't think MIlan is really an attractive place for players now except of Brazilians.

As to why I seems to be in a hurry for Milan to sign some good quality players. Well, thats b/c I think the pool of talented players are getting thin, as most teams would like to have 15-16 starting players in their squad. On top of that, I know you will disagree with me, I think teams are more toward, I don't mind holding onto my players or selling them at the right price market. Well, except for Porto.
In short, my true point is that I actually still have faith in Galli to get a deal or two done, but he will end up paying what the other teams asked instead of his prefer price, and if thats the case, why don't they make the deal now instead of a month later.

Originally Posted by Rick

Well, sure, ideally it would be great to have the whole roster worked out and everything in order, but that's very rarely the way it works for Milan or any other club. The problem -- and you may not see it this way, but in effect this is what it amounts to -- is that if you rush to hurry and fill your squad without negotiating for the best price, you've made panic buys. Maybe Real Madrid can get away with hurrying, but right now Milan can't. Or at least they don't want to end up half a billion euros in debt as Madrid is.

And surely changes made by Leonardo will affect the squad and it will take time, but this will be the case whether all the pieces are in place or not. Milan has a good enough squad right now to be competitive, so any players brought in during the month of August can be worked in slowly and given time to get up to speed. And more friendlies will only give more players a chance to get game action.

And yes, Sheva turned 30 his next birthday, but that's still in the prime of most players. When he was sold, Milan fans expected him to remain at the top of his game for at least two or three more seasons (they wouldn't have been so upset otherwise). Maldini is gone, it's true. But he's 41 years old and he was planning to retire a couple of seasons ago. While the things he was able to do at 39 or 40 were nothing short of amazing, he certainly hasn't been the player he once was for some time now. But other great players will come along. It rarely works as though Milan or any other club is an assembly line where you just replace the old part with a new one that's just as good. There are always transition periods. And you never know how players are going to work out. I've seen the same sort of clamoring for Santacroce this year that I heard for Oddo in 2006. If Milan could get Oddo and maybe one more, their defense would be set. So who knows if Milan brought in Santacroce or Mexes or some other flavor of the day they might not turn out to be another Oddo?

And I appreciate that you see that Milan still has a lot of talent left on the squad. But that makes me wonder why you seem to be in such a hurry? The squad has only lost one player to the market and another to retirement. Others will be around to take up the slack and Milan will add more players before the summer is over. Then more still next year as the finances should be in better shape. Maybe Milan won't win the Scudetto or the Champions League this year, but they will be fine and before you know it will be lifting trophies again.

A good post, I like it. Several comments:

1) Panic buy example: Oliveria. But of course, we also make mistakes by thinking a little bit too long, too late.

2) I think Oddo does have his contribution; but it's interesting how he lost his crossing flair.

3) I'm cheered up by your optimism, but it's hard for fans to have faith in the management when you sold your best player for money (at least that's the case for some folks here) and when you lost one of the best players to retirement, with only an American-born defender whom no one knows about (which is of course unfair to the player + no good for the team).

On a sidenote: really not sure if R80 can take up Kaka`'s role. I'm still doubtful; I think if he had wanted to be real determined to catch up (in terms of his physical fitness), he would have done it last season. But he didn't. I wonder why.

J

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Personally I think Milan lost more than just two players this summer, they actually lost their leader and their go-to man. On top of that, I don't think MIlan is really an attractive place for players now except of Brazilians.

As to why I seems to be in a hurry for Milan to sign some good quality players. Well, thats b/c I think the pool of talented players are getting thin, as most teams would like to have 15-16 starting players in their squad. On top of that, I know you will disagree with me, I think teams are more toward, I don't mind holding onto my players or selling them at the right price market. Well, except for Porto.
In short, my true point is that I actually still have faith in Galli to get a deal or two done, but he will end up paying what the other teams asked instead of his prefer price, and if thats the case, why don't they make the deal now instead of a month later.

I disagree about Milan not being an attractive place for players now except for Brazilians. "Show me the money, show me the contract, and with still world-class players and prestigious fame, why not?"

I do agree that it will take some time for other players (e.g., R80) to step up and take up Kaka`'s role. I'm less concerned by the retirement of our legend; it would have been a problem had Maldini been still on the top of his level; but like Rick said his performance is less than desirable in his last few years (though still better than many players of course).

Two reasons in response to your last question:

1) it's an assumption that you'll pay the same price for that player as of a month later. However, if you buy now, they know you are desperate, they are more likely to hold up the price. If you buy later, there is always the uncertainty (for both sides), and, IF the other team REALLY wants to sell and the player REALLY wants to go, the team is more likely to accept lower price.

2) If you do it once, teams that you deal with in the future will see how you perform in the past, and thus assume that any hold-back in the future is an indication of a no-buy (when in fact Milan actually wanted to bargain / negotiate), which reduces chances of reducing prices for subsequent transfer in the future.

Hope I make sense.

J

Welcome back Jeff. Have not seen u in ages.

I thought Oddo did his job, somehow he just lost it the next season.
He actually did pretty well at Bayern until the X'mas break, don't know what happened.

Well, considering how Galli carries himself. I am pretty sure the other teams know how he works by now.

As for WC players coming to Milan, compare to other big clubs, Milan is at a disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Jeff

A good post, I like it. Several comments:
2) I think Oddo does have his contribution; but it's interesting how he lost his crossing flair.

J

An excellent point. Oddo was wanted by many fans and in his first half season he was very good, and made a good contribution to our 4th spot and CL. What happened after that I don't know, but I think there's more to it than him simply becoming rubbish.

Originally Posted by fLame

sometimes I wonder why does galliani even bother making offers, if he knows we can't match the price

if you buy something
arent you gonna ask the seller to lower their price
i will
even if it just a meat

One thing that is really disconcerting is that Ronaldinho is out of shape. Does this strike you as a player who is committed to the cause? Pathetic. As a professional, the least he could have done is keep himself fit during the summer. The highest paid footballer in the squad turns up plump--how inspiring.

He is not really out of shape, he just gained a few pounds.
And he is working hard now as we speak.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

He is not really out of shape, he just gained a few pounds.
And he is working hard now as we speak.

He is overweight. He could have arrived in decent shape like the rest of the squad.

A lot depends on him next year, so he better shape up.

Originally Posted by Rick

You have a very short memory. Shevchenko was 29 and coming off one of his best seasons (28 goals and a brilliant performance in the Champions League). Everyone thought Sheva was right in his prime (and he should have been). Nearly everyone on these boards thought it was the end of the world. Milan would never be the same. Yet Milan managed to win the Champions League that very season.

And you take a very shortsighted view of things if you think a few games in August are more important than the long term future. Other clubs will be adding players in July and August as well. Besides, I think Milan has a good enough squad just the way it is to avoid being relegated to Serie B by Sept. 1.

Man, you need to move on from that CL win in 2007, as does everyone else in the world. Seriously, people, it was a lucky win! We were pounded by Liverpool for most of the game and got lucky with a freekick to the shoulder to take the lead. A lot of people were blinded by that win initially, including the management and refused to bring in quality players after that. And then what happened? 5th place in Serie A and a trip to the UEFA cup, where milan embarassed itself once again. Like what someone said in this thread, the CL involves a great deal of luck. And it just so happened that milan was incredably lucky that year and Kaka was playing like a madman. If you actually look long term, milan hasn't really been the same since Shevchenko left the team. Ever since the summer of 2006, have we ever even challenged for Serie A? Have we ever looked like we were the top club in the world? The answer is no.

It is never a good idea to use one example to justify an action. I once was able to park my car while drunk in a parking spot so tiny that i wouldn't usually think about it. Does that make DUI a good idea? We got one CL win after selling our best player, does that mean we should just sell every good player on our team so we can win the CL every year?

I agree with the fact that it is not realistic or smart for milan to sign all of its targets before august, but the thing is, they should at least sign some of them. Considering the number of quality signings this team needs (at least 3-4 really good ones), the negotiations will take a while for each of these players. That means, august wouldn't be enough for us to finalize everything with everyone. I think the best strategy is to bring in a couple of those signings before august and then use august to finalize the deals for everyone else. I have always hated to having to do everything at the last second as it always have a negative effect on quality.

Originally Posted by Fret

Ok, anybody got any news? Galliani still in Brazil? Santos, Hernanes? Reports of some sort perhaps?
..

The user from Australia is the only one that posts news or leads. Everyone else moans. On Milannews.it it says Fabiano's agent is quoted saying that the deal is close

Originally Posted by Jeff

I disagree about Milan not being an attractive place for players now except for Brazilians. "Show me the money, show me the contract, and with still world-class players and prestigious fame, why not?"

I do agree that it will take some time for other players (e.g., R80) to step up and take up Kaka`'s role. I'm less concerned by the retirement of our legend; it would have been a problem had Maldini been still on the top of his level; but like Rick said his performance is less than desirable in his last few years (though still better than many players of course).

Two reasons in response to your last question:

1) it's an assumption that you'll pay the same price for that player as of a month later. However, if you buy now, they know you are desperate, they are more likely to hold up the price. If you buy later, there is always the uncertainty (for both sides), and, IF the other team REALLY wants to sell and the player REALLY wants to go, the team is more likely to accept lower price.

2) If you do it once, teams that you deal with in the future will see how you perform in the past, and thus assume that any hold-back in the future is an indication of a no-buy (when in fact Milan actually wanted to bargain / negotiate), which reduces chances of reducing prices for subsequent transfer in the future.

Hope I make sense.

J

Jeff! You're back!

As for your post, I think I get it, except for one little thing. The current track record of Milan indicates that Galliani will go for targets but ask for a reduced price, every single time. Given that everyone already knows that we'll be back soon enough to negotiate, especially if we're that desperate for a player, the selling team will could just as well up the price given our reduced market time, our desperation, all subject to their need to sell of course.

Most of the clubs with the pool of players which Milan are looking for tend to be prominent clubs on the rise, or steadily successful clubs. They don't need to lose a player for extra cash, they aren't that desperate. This mercato made it perfectly clear. If we can't match their expected prices, we're not getting the player. If we sell out and ask for a discount, we're not getting the player.

When the season ended, I was entirely optimistic, given I was already expecting Gorky to leave, given the treatment they dished to him. I was optimistic because if we'd brought back our youngsters, the squad would have been just about right, given one or two more signings. At that moment, we were a rebuilding side that had came off an injury prone season.

When we sold Kaka, I was negative, but not entirely predicting the end of the world. I saw that given the right re-investment, our team could well possibly rebuild. An extra 5 or 6 quality signings would have almost made up for the loss of the focal of our attacks, or so I thought.

But in the month that followed, every signal from management has indicated a further drop into the depths of despair. Where did the money that Silvio said was going to be reinvested into Milan's team go? What about the promises of quality players to replace the "O Holy One"?

It doesn't just stay with internal affairs as well. We're suppose to be a big team, with sufficient influence and financial clout to negotiate for the players we target. Yet why are we the only team amongst the top sides who can't pick up on even one of their chosen targets? Why is it only our team that cannot manage to shell out a few extra million to buy the player we "Most" desire? What is that 80 Million warchest going to be spent on, besides Berlusconi's private jet expenses?

Seriously, even with Kaka gone, I was expecting a good next season for us. I just don't see it now. Yes the youngsters are back, but who do they turn to? They could probably run circles around old man Slowdorf. Who's gonna mentor them now? They wouldn't listen to Pato, he's even younger than them.
Milan seriously have this huge generation gap, and with the mainstay link between the two generations gone, I just don't see how the team will be able to gel properly. So you see Jeff, it wasn't just because we lost players to retirement and sales, nor that we lost our coach to a rival in Europe. It's the problem that Management was complete cow dung in dealing with the aftermath that gets to me, and thats whats making me less and less optimistic about the team's chances the closer we get to the new season.


Oh, Rick, you said that we could afford not to have the new signings for the first two to three weeks of the season, right? Well, consider this. Last season, Milan lost the first two games of the season, no Kaka, and a semi-fit Ronaldinho playing. Do you really want so much to repeat that feat? To be 6 points behind Inter after two games into the season is definitely not the way I would like to start it off, and unless you have absolutely no expectation for the club to win anything so early, I really don't think you would either.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

He is not really out of shape, he just gained a few pounds.
And he is working hard now as we speak.

You know, this just goes so far to prove how much he really wants to do well. Cassano went back to training a week earlier than everyone else at Samp, thats how committed he is to breaking back into the Italian team. With Ronnie, I see no motivation other than to pick up his fat pay cheque and go clubbing, he's not gonna get back into the Brazilian National team like this.

Originally Posted by slifersd

Man, you need to move on from that CL win in 2007, as does everyone else in the world. Seriously, people, it was a lucky win! We were pounded by Liverpool for most of the game and got lucky with a freekick to the shoulder to take the lead. A lot of people were blinded by that win initially, including the management and refused to bring in quality players after that. And then what happened? 5th place in Serie A and a trip to the UEFA cup, where milan embarassed itself once again. Like what someone said in this thread, the CL involves a great deal of luck. And it just so happened that milan was incredably lucky that year and Kaka was playing like a madman. If you actually look long term, milan hasn't really been the same since Shevchenko left the team. Ever since the summer of 2006, have we ever even challenged for Serie A? Have we ever looked like we were the top club in the world? The answer is no.

It is never a good idea to use one example to justify an action. I once was able to park my car while drunk in a parking spot so tiny that i wouldn't usually think about it. Does that make DUI a good idea? We got one CL win after selling our best player, does that mean we should just sell every good player on our team so we can win the CL every year?

I agree with the fact that it is not realistic or smart for milan to sign all of its targets before august, but the thing is, they should at least sign some of them. Considering the number of quality signings this team needs (at least 3-4 really good ones), the negotiations will take a while for each of these players. That means, august wouldn't be enough for us to finalize everything with everyone. I think the best strategy is to bring in a couple of those signings before august and then use august to finalize the deals for everyone else. I have always hated to having to do everything at the last second as it always have a negative effect on quality.

We were lucky, but we had the quality to tear Man U apart, even if they were missing players. We also had the quality to beat Bayern in Germany. To be sure, we had the benefit of only having to play in Europe, but nonetheless, an awesome CL win.

The rest of the post, yeah I agree.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

We were lucky, but we had the quality to tear Man U apart, even if they were missing players. We also had the quality to beat Bayern in Germany. To be sure, we had the benefit of only having to play in Europe, but nonetheless, an awesome CL win.

The rest of the post, yeah I agree.

We also had the quality to hold Celtic to 180 minutes of goalless football, until "He-who-should-not-have-been-sold-without-replacement" popped up with an extra piece of quality to put us into the clash against Bayern in the first place.

Just admit it, the whole campaign that season was a one-man show. Unfortunately, his closest successor in the team is 3 to 4 years short of a finished product, and you can bet that should some tragedy in placings befall us one too many seasons (in this, I actually mean two seasons), then Mr. Successor will leave for greener pastures as well.

Originally Posted by Ryo

We also had the quality to hold Celtic to 180 minutes of goalless football, until "He-who-should-not-have-been-sold-without-replacement" popped up with an extra piece of quality to put us into the clash against Bayern in the first place.

Just admit it, the whole campaign that season was a one-man show.

Kaka' was huge that year. But so was Seedorf and so was Inzaghi. Gattuso was decisive as well.

I agree about Pato. I don't see him at Milan for more than 5-6 years.