Summer mercato 2009

Agreed with Patistico and Rick. It is not all that bad, folks. I know losing Kaka was a huge blow, but this team is still capable of winning. I would put us on par with Juve at present and still above the likes of Roma, Napoli, Fiorentina, Lazio. We still have this habit of losing to small teams, so let's see if there's any improvement this year.

As for a new signing, I also feel that Galliani/Berlusconi have something up their sleeves. It's definitely not going to be Fabregas, but if it is a big prospect like Hernanes, I would be more than happy.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Hey Slifersd, no probs...I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I like the way u have stated ur disagreement...

However, if we take a closer look at both arguments, we seem to be saying the same thing, though my version may b a bit more pessimistic....the point remains: it would take a "Kaka" type purchase to get us to the UCL places this season....and my point is that I don't think it will happen.

And becuz it won't happen, we are potentially capable of going on a downward spiral that any coach would find difficult to counter, and an inexperienced coach I fear will find impossible.

I'm just looking at the coming season as a glass that is half-full, (with the potential to fall off the counter and shatter at any minute.)

I understand exactly what you are saying, and believe me, i am not looking forward to this upcoming season at all. Though I think bottom half of the league is a little too pessemistic, to say we will finish 7th and miss out on Europe altogether isn't all that impossible to me.

As far as the transfer market is concerned, my point is, for a team that is rebuilding itself, we need every single good purchase we can get. We can't always have a Kaka type of purchase, but a Fabregas or even Sneijder should be more than welcomed here. We can't always shoot for the moon and hope we can strike a jackpot the way we did with Shevchenko, Pirlo and Kaka. To me, having Sneijder playing in Seedorf's spot makes us a lot better and because of that, we should be trying to sign him. And who knows, with the right chemistry and a little luck, a Sneijder or Robben might just be what it takes to rejuvenate the attack and lead us to third place.

Originally Posted by Centre

because the fabergas rumor mentioned monday? or do u have another reason?

Yes.

Originally Posted by bLOND !-,-!

in this article he also said that our formation for this season will be 4-3-1-2, because he cannot develop his 4-3-3 formation (with wingers)...because we don't have them heh

I think from the start he wanted to play 4-3-1-2? Didn't he say it clearly in past time? 4-3-1-2, with 2 attacking fullbacks, 3 CMs, 1 Dinho, and 2 pure striker. He NEVER said that he will play with wingers! NEVER! If he ever said that, the wingers he meant are wingbacks! C'mon... So it's not that we don't have wingers, we don't NEED them.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

ain't the time to give us false hopes

Oh c'mon don't be so harsh...

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Wonder if that would spark a reaction from Berlu?

Maybe he'll end up with 150M bid for Messi or something like that. You know Berlu when he's in crazy mode. He has the money, but he doesn't want to use them yet, that's all.

Too much pessimism here....although I can understand why.

However, Warro I know you are dissapointed by the preseason....but come on man. Overtaken by Udinese, Lazio and Napoli??? It's tough to swallow. By Fiorentina is one thing...it already happened the year before last. Roma still strong although they had a pathetic season last year and they haven't done anything significant in the market either. Napoli is going to be strong.....very strong indeed......but I still think they lack quality and depth but we'll see how they'll manage in the later stages. As for Lazio and Udinese....that's just an insult man. Lazio hasn't improved one bit and neither has Udinese. As a matter of fact both sides are weakened on top of their not so convincing seasons.

All I'm saying is that we are all disapointed by the pre-season (although I wrote a post yesterday of why I think we should wait at least until October-November until we call the devil in to sleigh players and coaches) but saying that we'll finish behind sides like Lazio and Udinese is a little too much pessimism.

Come on Warro. Keep the faith man. Give the team a few weeks to gel and train the way they are supposed to.....and not only travel around the world.....The way the pre-season was set up (commercial value only), it was a failure waiting to happen and don't be surprised if we have a slow start because of it either.

Originally Posted by nefremo

Too much pessimism here....although I can understand why.

However, Warro I know you are dissapointed by the preseason....but come on man. Overtaken by Udinese, Lazio and Napoli??? It's tough to swallow. By Fiorentina is one thing...it already happened the year before last. Roma still strong although they had a pathetic season last year and they haven't done anything significant in the market either. Napoli is going to be strong.....very strong indeed......but I still think they lack quality and depth but we'll see how they'll manage in the later stages. As for Lazio and Udinese....that's just an insult man. Lazio hasn't improved one bit and neither has Udinese. As a matter of fact both sides are weakened on top of their not so convincing seasons.

u say udinese napoli and lazio lack depth but so do we.... this preseason has been all depth and it shows, we lack it. Aside from the regular first 11.... i mean abate looks like he can play, flamini is a good dm and pippo is pippo, and then its pretty bleak.

And although i love pirlo, gattuso, seedorf, nesta, etc etc. Reality is age cacthes up to everyone and mabe d'agostino or ledesma or whoever may never have the careers of them ilan players... they r younger, and more capable than fading players. And thats what scares me... some players are great till 36+ and some are done in there early 30s.... we are counting so much on older players and 'recovering' players. We are counting on nesta to come back after a year + off.... ronaldinho to re-find himself, gattuso to still run like he's 25, i mean when i look at milan, i see literally no certainties...

and on the contrary those teams like napoli, udinese... there may lack the total world class ability most of our squad posesses or has posessed during there careers... but they do have lots of young promising talent to go w/ players who are of age who know there role. While the may not have made 'signings' do you really think zarate, hamsik, lavezzi, sanchez and on and on will not get better?????? As opposed to milan who have pato, who will improve and literally every other player should only get worse

The way i see it, we'll need some real luck to pass juve or inter. And while we should be 3rd.... fiorentina, genoa, napoli, udinese, lazio, roma, maybe even sampdoria all posses the ability to pass us

I think its always nice to have a balance of experience and youth in the team. Coz from experience you know what is to be done and with the youth there would be a burst of energy levels.

Right now all i can say is that we are in a bloody mess and i hope for **** sake this whole situation would change and i believe it can with one or two more signings and plus that spark which is missing in the form of a win. I m just hoping against hope that we beat juve in the Trofeo berlusconi and get the confidence that is much needed back.


Italian media are speculating a big name sigining this evening and i just wish it were true.

Have to wonder if some people watch football if they think a player from everton or spurs or fulham would walk into our team. Things are going bad right now, but other than our wide def & am we still have a very good squad.

If Leo can find the right balance, we are more than a capable of beating anyone we play, but our depth is very poor, and we should have given some youngsters more playing time to see which could be ready to compete on a regular basis.

As for league position I don't think Napoli, Lazio, or Sampdoria will be challenging us even if they have some players that would compliment Milan.

Okay, let's be rational here. Yes, we lost Kaka---who IMO was our most influential and best player. Alright, we have a semi-replacement in Dinho. As someone else said, not a 100% replacement, but a replacement nonetheless.

We lost Maldini---Thiago Silva has replaced him.

We needed more depth in midfield----in came Abate, and Leo seems to trust Flamini. A midfield of Abate Pirlo Flamini is pretty damn good.

We needed a targetman---we got Huntelaar. So now we have 4 strikers---Huntelaar, Pippo, Pato, Boriello. That's not bad!

So all in all, yes I agree we are one or two signings away from being a MAJOR force, but all is not doom and gloom with the squad we have. We are still capable of challenging next year. We got to give the team and the new coach a proper chance. If we are stuck in mid-table by Christmas, I will be the first to call for managemnt to take responsibility or for Leo to be fired. But until then, let's just wait and see, patiently...sigh.

I think we should see if we can strengthen before enf of this month, and maybe see if Leo can find a formation we can use before we think of getting rid of him. Besides if he was signed as a cheap option it'll be somebody expensive who would replace him.

Originally Posted by K77SH C

I know we wont get all of that.

Im not sure we need all of it either.

Our 4 strikers are great, it doesnt really get better than Boriello as a 4th choice striker. Pippo is Pippo, Pato is Pato and we need to trust in Huntelaar.

Zambro is still ok, so we only need one fullback. A centre back would be nice.

Midfield - Who even knows anymore? If Ronnie plays well then the midfield is adequate, if not then we could do with a playmaker. Otherwise, the blend we have of battlers, creative players and Abate to add pace is ok I suppose.

Beggars cant be choosers. If we do get any more money spent this summer, then Id be devastated if it were spent on a player like Van Persie where we are covered already. Im desperate for the defence to be reinforced.

We clearly won't get it, but I'd argue we need it.

I think Borriello should really be 3rd choice. Pippo at 36 really shouldn't be relied on as a primary backup, and having Borri doesn't convince.

Zambro is ok for now, but he's clearly in decline. Realistically, there's little certainty as to how he'll perform. He's a big questionmark imo. Our CBs are all questionmarks too, which is worrying.

Midfield is same, Dinho's a huge questionmark and we really only have Flamini who can push up from deep. Seedorf to some degree, but how many positions can he backup?

Our problem is twofold. One, we have too many risks where it's unlikely we'll luck out. The other is we lack depth overall. We still have too much deadweight in the squad which results in a big squad but little depth in quality.

If the pieces fall into place, then we can compete. However, to truly be challenging then I think we need some major work.

Originally Posted by Milano84

Keep saying that but Milan can't beat a horrid Portsmouth side. Go watch tottenham, modric, corluka, palacio and Defoe could probably walk into milans lineup and I don't even think they're a great team. How about everton? I bet we'd love arteta for one. Hell I'd take tim cahill. Fulhams defender hangeland could walk into our first 11. I could keep going... Look I prefer serie a cause of the creativity of play and variations of tactics but the arrogance of Italy thinking there's no real talent in englang outside the top 4 is a reason Italy had fallen second rate.

Btw on the defense point it's fair to say the only tee world class defenders ( I'm not counting nests just cause off injury it's to be seen how he'll play) r in England. Italys best defender (cheillini) wouldn't sniff time in englands top 4.

Yes Milano I will stick by my guns because team for team Serie A would beat the EPL. The top 6 as I said would tip in favour of the EPL but the tactics football and overall quality in Italy it stronger than the EPL.

Im living in Ireland so all I have is the EPL rammed down my throat until I vomit. I made my choice young I watched the Epl and Serie A and Italian football swayed me. Granted in the 90's it was number 1 and nothing came close. But as the gap has closed and English teams have become more successfull (due to play on the break football BTW even though only Italian teams play on the break according to sky boring and negative) the gap is not that huge.

When the Italian league was king there was not a team in England that could of lived wit the top sides in Italy. As much as the EPL has "DOMINATED" this decade apparently. They only have 2 Champions leagues to show for it Milan , Barcelona & Real Madrid have that themselves some dominence.

Just joining the discussions about EPL VS Serie A.

A couple of things.

1. When Serie A was the best league in the World in the late 80s to mid 90s. There was no EPL, and the top division in England was banned from playing European Football due to fans violence. Thus a lot of the top talents just would not go to England.

2. Over the last 10 years or so. Maybe EPL only had 2 CL champs, and Milan had 2 themselves. Thats just second to Liga with 4. But if you look at how many IT teams made it to the final 8 VS EPL teams. EPL teams had a lot of more.

3. Presently, EPL is a better league than Serie A in pretty much everything except of the tactical side of the game.

4. To be honest, I think alot of players outside of the top 4 in the EPL can play in any of the top 8 teams in Serie A. Even in Milan. Corluka, Modric, A Young, Tevez, Robino, De Jong, Barry, and even King.


Honestly, I really do see why people still don't give credits or ignore the EPL dominance over the past decade. I think that's something teams and leagues should learn of EPL success and try to do it themselves.

Originally Posted by Patistico

In no way am I optimistic about winning any titles this season, but I certainly do think many here are being overly pessimistic. I think Rick's post was spot on. I add some opinion below.

From last year, we've lost:
------------------

Kaka. Not the Ballon d'Or Kaka that won us the CL, but rather a Kaka whose game was relatively mediocre (though his presence was enough to keep defenders occupied and open space for others) and who was continually bothered by injury.

Carlo. Certainly one of the greatest coaches, but who had developed strong friendships with players that negatively affected his choices, and who also played relatively defensively against many weaker teams.



Thus far, we've gained:
------------------

A thus-far healthy Nesta, who even in his current form is pure class.

Silva, who in my opinion has been VERY good in pre-season and has formed a great understanding with Nesta.

Gattuso, who was consistently our best player last season before getting injured.

Abate: not very effective yet, but hopefully we can figure out how to benefit from his pace.

Leonardo. Who doesn't display the same nepotism towards Seedorf as Carlo did. Not having to play Seedorf every game from the start is a fantastic benefit that we shouldn't underestimate.

Huntelaar: Really, a quality striker who scored a goal in almost every game at Ajax. I know it was the Dutch league, but if you've seen him play I'm sure you were impressed. Hopefully he will settle in soon.

Borriello: Disappointing pre-season. I don't have much hope for him. I think he can most wisely be used as bait for a transfer for a proper player.

Dinho (b/c he actually gets playing time now). Certainly not as effective as Kaka, but good enough that we can't just simply say "we lost Kaka without replacement". We got Dinho instead; even if he's only 60% of Kaka, that means we only lost 40% of Kaka.

------------------

So all in all, I think we have a stronger side than last year... as long as we stay healthy. If the team can gel together, I think we'll be competitive and clinch 3rd. All this talk about "relegation" is pure nonsense... and probably should not be mentioned again.

Inter lost Ibra and still have not found a creative replacement. Milito is definitely a great striker, but doesn't have the creativity of Ibra. I think Inter will face some difficulty next year as a result.

Juve have improved with the signing of Diego, but IMO Diego isn't a HUGE improvement over Seba. Unless they can figure out how to effectively play Seba and Diego together, I don't think the 25M for Diego was worth the marginal improvement over Seba. And Cannavaro is nowhere near his prime.

Other teams like Fiorentina, Udinese, and Lazio have certainly improved, but not enough to overtake Milan.

The starting XI is really only missing a full back and Dinho in better shape. Subs of course are a different issue.

------------------

And I definitely don't think that preseason was a fair indicator of our abilities. Rarely did we play with the starting XI (if ever, I can't remember). And Leo clearly was trying players in different positions.

Agree and disagree mate.

I think Diego and Seba(who has not play much last season) will do wonders for Juve next year. And having Canna in the back will only help Buffon and CHellini. Then they have Melo, who is waiting to explode.

Inter might have lost Ibra, but they did gain Lucio, Eto and Milito. Since I watched them up close two weeks ago in Beijing, I have to say that they are still the best team in Serie A. Although they did lost to Lazio that game but it is still pre season and Lazio was really really lucky.

As of now, I really can't see why you can say that Milan is a better team than last year. Esp the Second half when Becks was playing and Kaka was injury free.

T. Silva and Nesta being healthy are an upgrade from Cap, no doubt about it, but can we expect Nesta to be injury free the whole season?
Kala has lost his passion for the game, you can see that in his eyes. Bonera might be the surprise player next year, while Favalli is another year older.
Janku and Zambro are clearly on the decline, but hope that a WC year might them better.
Overall, I do think the defense is more solid than last year but Nesta must stay healthy.

The midfield is where the problems lie. It still lacks mobility and speed.

Then there is the DInho factor.


If you ask me, on paper this Milan team is better than last year. BUT the truth is, this is a team full of questions mark and truly lacks quality players.

4. To be honest, I think alot of players outside of the top 4 in the EPL can play in any of the top 8 teams in Serie A. Even in Milan. Corluka, Modric, A Young, Tevez, Robino, De Jong, Barry, and even King.

With exception to the these bolded names I agree with every single word in your 2 posts.

but then these players could walk into any top 4 team in england

cassano, hamsik, santacroce, criscito, lavezzi, pazzini, de rossi, totti, mexes, juan, motta, vucinic, pizzaro, gargano, and these are all from teams that finished outside the top 4 in italy last year, maybe take away roma's players and put fiorentina there.

overall, serie a in all is better and is more competitive and has more talent spread through the league.