Summer mercato 2009

@ Hasan Rossonero

I am wondering if you would still pitch Kaka on the same level as "Jerry Falwell, fanatic mullahs, and other creeps [who] never tell lies."

Originally Posted by boing boing

@ Hasan Rossonero

I am wondering if you would still pitch Kaka on the same level as "Jerry Falwell, fanatic mullahs, and other creeps [who] never tell lies."

I'm surprised you recall that quotation.

I think Kaka' is infinitely better than Berlusconi. However, in my opinion, he was not completely innocent in the move to Real Madrid, and spent some time flirting with Real. I have explained the saga as I see it in another thread.

Yeah, I don't buy into that whole angelic Kaka' image.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Yeah, I don't buy into that whole angelic Kaka' image.

I don't understand where this whole "angelic / non-angelic" thing came from.

Kaka wanted to stay, but the management sold him anyway.
The same deal with Sneider - he wanted to stay at Real Madrid but they sold him.

How does that make any of them angelic?

Personally i think berlu did a lot of damage to the soul of milan by selling kaka. I'm so glad that people's eyes are being opened to see that he wasn't the greedy mercenary many thought him to be. Yes berlu was responsible for all our recent success and he indeed deserves respect for it. But there are things that even parents can do to their children-who owe them everything- that could bring about deserved hate by their own children. As the owner of the club it was his RESPONSIBILITY to use his resources for the success of the club. True he bought a relatively unproven kid from brazil who always wanted to play for Real Madrid. But Berlu wasn't the force behind kaka becoming the legend that he is. Kaka and Ancelotti were. Kaka- the man the image the symbol and lastly the player- belonged to us....isn't it clear from his interviews? from a football perspective kaka is replaceable. But the human intangibles aren't easily replaced. Ronaldinho can just barely fill the cam void. I seriously doubt he can be the role model we had.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

I know you didn't say that--I was aiming at someone else.

Your posts are always sensible, and are greatly appreciated by me at least.

Thank you my friend. I just wanted to make sure you didn't get the wrong idea. I greatly appreciate your contributions as well.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

I'm surprised you recall that quotation.

I think Kaka' is infinitely better than Berlusconi. However, in my opinion, he was not completely innocent in the move to Real Madrid, and spent some time flirting with Real. I have explained the saga as I see it in another thread.

Yeah, I don't buy into that whole angelic Kaka' image.

This is true. Both must shoulder the blame for the way things happened. While it's true that Kaka would probably have stayed had Milan not shown some willingness to sell him, he wasn't in any respect an innoccent victim. Every year he and his father used Real Madrid to blackmail Milan for more money. Personally, I was getting a bit tired of the whole thing, whether the press rumors, Madrid's arrogance or Kaka's father's opportunism. And he certainly wasn't completely truthful when he continued to claim he wouldn't be leaving Milan, even as he left for Brazil after the season and already knew he would be leaving. In fact, we now know that his move to Madrid was virtually sealed during the Manchester City saga in the winter. So there's plenty of blame to go all around.

Originally Posted by fLame

I don't understand where this whole "angelic / non-angelic" thing came from.

Kaka wanted to stay, but the management sold him anyway.
The same deal with Sneider - he wanted to stay at Real Madrid but they sold him.

How does that make any of them angelic?

I meant in general, not just this situation. I think Kaka' is a fairly decent guy (for the most part), but like any footballer he knew that he had leverage when it came to negotiating contracts. I think it was not ONLY Berlu's decision to sell Kaka'. However, the man could have done more to keep him.

Any last day mercato? I wanted to know if any of you in europe have heard any new rumors?

We need some defense backup pleaseeeeeeeeeee...

Originally Posted by drucurl

Personally i think berlu did a lot of damage to the soul of milan by selling kaka. I'm so glad that people's eyes are being opened to see that he wasn't the greedy mercenary many thought him to be. Yes berlu was responsible for all our recent success and he indeed deserves respect for it. But there are things that even parents can do to their children-who owe them everything- that could bring about deserved hate by their own children. As the owner of the club it was his RESPONSIBILITY to use his resources for the success of the club. True he bought a relatively unproven kid from brazil who always wanted to play for Real Madrid. But Berlu wasn't the force behind kaka becoming the legend that he is. Kaka and Ancelotti were. Kaka- the man the image the symbol and lastly the player- belonged to us....isn't it clear from his interviews? from a football perspective kaka is replaceable. But the human intangibles aren't easily replaced. Ronaldinho can just barely fill the cam void. I seriously doubt he can be the role model we had.

Nice post drucurl. It is the human intangible of Kaka which was our biggest loss. If Kaka could, he would still play for us.

Kaka is in no way on par with the religious fanatics that Hasan had mentioned. He surely wasn't like Maldini and Baresi, but he certainly did emulate them in the best way possible.

If a player is the best in the world, then why shouldn't he try to use some kind of leverage (RM threats) to increase his salary. Kaka wasn't born in Milan and he wasn't Italian. His favorite had always been RM. If he didn't want money, then he could have stayed at Sao Paolo. The truth is (like Adebayor had mentioned) that, "Professional Footballers Are Motivated By Money."

Article: http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/englan...ootballers-are

On a side-note, the RM threats from Kaka and his dad had stopped once he had signed the 2013 contract in early 2008. He had openly stated that he didn't want to go to RM anymore and become the captain of Milan one day. He stated this categorically so there is no need to speculate that he had any ulterior motives of switching to RM (unless he stated that he wanted to go to RM after he signed the 2013 contract and until Milan tried to sell him to Man C in December 2008)

The bottom-line is that the ultimate authority in this transfer was Berlu. If Berlu didn't want to sell him, Kaka would still be happily playing with us and leading our attack.

Originally Posted by OCmilano

Any last day mercato? I wanted to know if any of you in europe have heard any new rumors?

We need some defense backup pleaseeeeeeeeeee...

Nothing over here it went from B&G BS to nothing at all I don't know which is worse. But as much as they try to pull the wool over our eyes we all know that 2 or 3 injuries and we are in trouble And they don't even have to be long term say Nesta , Pato and Dinho miss 4 or 5 games at the same time thats us screwed for 10 - 15 points.

Is funny how we still talk about Gourcuff and Kaka, two players who will not play for Milan in the coming seasons.

Personally, I think both made the right decisions for their career wise.
As a Milan fan, it is horrible to see them playing for another team next season.

I don't blame them for leaving nor do I blame Berlu for selling. What I don't like and I had been saying it for a long time is the fact that Berlu takes the fans for granted and treated us fans like crap by keep saying the team is great..... He can just shut up and mind his PM business instead of opening his mouth all the time.

Can't wait for Kaka to play at San Siro again, it will be interesting to see how the fans react to his return.

Originally Posted by Jay Crisp

Nothing over here it went from B&G BS to nothing at all I don't know which is worse. But as much as they try to pull the wool over our eyes we all know that 2 or 3 injuries and we are in trouble And they don't even have to be long term say Nesta , Pato and Dinho miss 4 or 5 games at the same time thats us screwed for 10 - 15 points.

TO be honest, I really think the MIlan squad is too big as it is.

GK: Abbiati, Dida, Roma, Staori
FB: Zambro, Janku, Antonini, Oddo
CB: Nesta, T. Silva, Kala, Bonera, Favalli, Gooch
MD: Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Seedorf, Abate, DI Gennero, Flamini
AM: Dinho
STK: Pippo, Pato, Hunter, Borreillo

Thats a total of 26 players and when you add Struasser and Albertazzi to the mix, thats a total of 28 players.

Way too much for Milan.

kaladze and oddo againt not called for the game tomorrow... are they injured or is it an indication they arent wanted anymore and will leave in the next few days...

Hasan, it was ONLy Berlu's decision to sell Kaka'! Noone else had anything to do with the transfer. Galliani just made it, and Kaka' was sold. Berlu is a traitor in my eyes.

About Yoan, story in Italy is that Galliani offered him to come back but said he will not get a new contract and he'll be payed as he used to be when he was signed, and is not guaranteed a starting place. Or he can stay and Milan wants 15mln. Milan in the end just wanted 15mln and noone cared about Gourcuff (football wise). Money,money,money...

boing boing- you seem to be misinterpreting things just a bit. At that time, you said Kaka' is "pious" and therefore wouldn't lie. I wanted to point out that even seemingly pious people lie. My example of Falwell and fanatic mullahs was designed to point out that despite having a huge following these people do lie, and that piety should not always be used as a criteria to determine someone's honesty. In my opinion, you were oversimplifying everything by completely absolving Kaka'.

Here is the original exchange:

Originally Posted by boing boing

You can never know whether he had this feeling before Milan's intention to sell him or after that. For all I know is that he was an extremely pious man and wouldn't lie about his willingness to stay with the club, which he did even after being sold.

He has been very kind towards the club, fans and Italy in about every interview till today. Don't let our misery in the transfer market cloud his feelings and contribution to Milan.

Every Brazilian wants to play in Madrid then why shouldn't he feel happy about the switch. Also, if you have joined such a major club at such a high price tags, you cannot let their fans feel that Milan is still the best club for you. Like I said before there is really no other side to this story.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Right, because pious men like Jerry Falwell, fanatic mullahs, and other creeps never tell lies.

Kaka' knew how to play the game, as did Milan. I have posted a very detailed account of this transfer: http://www.milanmania.com/forums/sho...530#post534530

@mrki:

Originally Posted by mrki

Hasan, it was ONLy Berlu's decision to sell Kaka'! Noone else had anything to do with the transfer. Galliani just made it, and Kaka' was sold. Berlu is a traitor in my eyes.

Hmm...well I disagree--I think Bosco and Kaka' had something to do with it as well.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

TO be honest, I really think the MIlan squad is too big as it is.

GK: Abbiati, Dida, Roma, Staori
FB: Zambro, Janku, Antonini, Oddo
CB: Nesta, T. Silva, Kala, Bonera, Favalli, Gooch
MD: Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Seedorf, Abate, DI Gennero, Flamini
AM: Dinho
STK: Pippo, Pato, Hunter, Borreillo

Thats a total of 26 players and when you add Struasser and Albertazzi to the mix, thats a total of 28 players.

Way too much for Milan.

I agree, way too much.

But once you highlight the players in that group with actual quality and promise, you might think we don't actually have enough.