Summer mercato 2009

Not sure about this pirlofanusa. I think Boriello is critical in

1) finishing
2) heading / holding the ball from long pass (if it reaches him)

He made a couple of good relay for Pato and Dinho, who simply wanted to dribble past 2/3 players (and if he couldn't, he would complain to the referee), and made a pass that would reach no one (because no one really knows where he is passing anyway).

I remember Carlo said something about Kaka` before: he doesn't play fancy, but he is EFFECTIVE. Most Brazilians, on the other hand, care about doing tricks, and stuff like that. Even Pato, when he just came to Italy, were like that (I felt like he is much more mature and SMARTER now with the ball; - in other words, dribble at the right time). That's the difference between Pato and Dinho: Pato learns, adapts, do better. Dinho? Nothing. Not trying hard enough because trying hard is not in his gene.

J

Originally Posted by Jeff

Not sure about this pirlofanusa. I think Boriello is critical in

1) finishing
2) heading / holding the ball from long pass (if it reaches him)

He made a couple of good relay for Pato and Dinho, who simply wanted to dribble past 2/3 players (and if he couldn't, he would complain to the referee), and made a pass that would reach no one (because no one really knows where he is passing anyway).

I remember Carlo said something about Kaka` before: he doesn't play fancy, but he is EFFECTIVE. Most Brazilians, on the other hand, care about doing tricks, and stuff like that. Even Pato, when he just came to Italy, were like that (I felt like he is much more mature and SMARTER now with the ball; - in other words, dribble at the right time). That's the difference between Pato and Dinho: Pato learns, adapts, do better. Dinho? Nothing. Not trying hard enough because trying hard is not in his gene.

J

I just think that he is in much better shape than Dinho, he holds onto the ball well, he passes well, and he can shot from distance so i think that he could maybe do it.

PS I'm a Jeff too

Originally Posted by GeoTav

You see all the negative purchases, but some could have been positive and were actually great on paper (they just failed on the pitch): Gourcuff and Gilardino.

Then there is Pato ...

These three players should have actually been in our team nowadays if for some reasons, the first two ones didn't fail (we won't come back on all that again). They were clearly bought to rejuvenate this team. That didn't work, that's it, we won't "remake" our history each time we lose a game ... we will win some games very easily this year, we will maybe do better than expected (some people already condamn this team in the middle of the Serie A table whereas only 2 games were played !!), we will lose games again because of probably the same mistakes (players not running or something like that), etc.

Actually, I think this defeat could give more power to Leonardo (more power with the players, and also regarding the medias, the guy can say he asked for players and that it is Berlusconi who doesn't want to buy them, he can say it without any reply from Berlusconi, actually, medias will make Berlusconi the responsible of any defeat this season, and when we know how his image is important for him ...).

Come on dude. Let's not kid ourselves. The only striker we spent money on was Gilardino and at that time, I agreed with the purchase completely. He was expensive, but he was proven. In the end, he flopped, but hey--at least we made the effort, right? The rest was just cheap stop gaps---Vieri, Crespo, Oliveira (panic buy). Where were we when Juve bought Amauri? Five to ten years ago, we'd be competing with them for every player, now we only go for past-their-prime Champions.

Gourcuff was a prospect, he was not a proven player. ANd sadly, we have let a very promising player leave. Pato was also a prospect, and the way we put so much responsiblity on his 18 year old shoulders were sad. He should have come in and given time to gradually phase in, instead he came and was relied upon to bail the team out, which he admirably did.

Yes the philosophy is wrong:

1) Which PROVEN, world class center back have we bought since Nesta? Was Stam really a long-term solution?

2) Have we ever bought any top class wingbacks? Cafu was way over 30 when we bought him? Janku wasnt even a wingback. Oddo was also over 30. Shouldnt we have been competing with Barca for Dani Alves, with Madrid for Marcelo, with Man Utd for Evra? Where has the great Milan disappeared? Seems like we disappear every year from June to August.

3) Would we have bought Flamini if he wasnt available on a free? What does that tell you about our transfer philosophy?

4) So, who did we buy to replace Kaka? No one.

5) We needed a striker. Leo's first choice was Dzeko. Nope he wasnt available (offer Wolfsburg 30M and I guarantee he will be available). So we move down the list, second choice Luis Fabiano--we offered 12M which was quite embarrassing, and then we finally get our last choice, Huntelaar for a cut price because we sold Real our most valuable asset.

YES, this transfer philosophy is WRONG and has been wrong for a number of years.

I have to disagree with much that has been said here.

Our transfer policy has been terrible since our CL win in 2007.

It has not been terrible because of a supposed lack of top class players. It's been bad because since 2007 we've stopped getting the sort of players that can replace our first XI.

Think about 2007, the only reason we were able to get to the CL final was because there was no injuries to our first team. It wasn't just Kaka's supposed brilliance. Sure, he played awesome, but so did many others. Inzaghi and Pirlo were fantastic down the stretch, Oddo's January transfer pushed our right flank into being worth something and Ronaldo's transfer gave renewed vigor to the team as he provided goals between CL games to keep Milan running.

Following 2007, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, all started breaking down. Before, Ambro was a reserve, a player who could be called upon when needed. For the last two years he has been a continual starter. He's not bad, but he's not the first name on the team sheet.

Many complain about Ricardo Oliveira, Gilardino, Dhorosoo, Vogel, and even Stam. The purchases of Vogel, Dhorosoo and Stam were fantastic, because they gave Milan's real first team players, Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf for instance, the ability to rest. Pirlo is burnt out, he has just turned 30 and his style of play should allow him to play for a few more years. But he's clearly physically burnt out.

I used to question why Milan bought Dhorasoo and Vogel, but they served the same purpose. Before, Rui Costa used to sub in for Pirlo. Then, he left, Dhorasoo did that for a season. Then Vogel. Both did a fantastic job. Brocchi also was there, as was Ambrosini.

Who would have thought that Ricardo Oliveira would have his sister kidnapped? He played poorly after that. Who thought Gilardino would turn to garbage playing for Milan? Gourcuff did not shine for us, for whatever reasons.

Milan's main issue was that we did not offer the cover to extend the playing careers of Pirlo, Gattuso, or Seedorf. Players that were once backups became first team choices, out of necessity. Favalli, Ambro, were critical starters last season, what does that tell you?

We finally have a strike pair that should be the best in Serie A. Honestly, Pato-Huntelaar is a great pair. Watching what Huntelaar was capable of doing in the few minutes he had against Inter gives me tremendous hope that he is worth something. And just because he might be supposedly "Real Madrid's trash" doesn't mean he isn't a great player. Sneijder, who everyone was fawning over, was also, Real Madrid's "trash."

Oh, so were Seedorf and Pirlo, and they turned out to be pretty good, no?

Dinho was terrible against Inter, he was not winning free-kicks and I thought he would have gotten used to the sorts of calls he would get in Italy versus Spain by now, but I guess not. I would like to have Van der Vaart to bolster our squad, but that will never happen, unfortunatley. I'm not going to say that he is finished, as this is his first season to be without excuses as the main man for Milan.

Pato cannot and should not play as a second striker. Even Leonardo has said this. Pato does not have the passing ability or the decision-making skills to do this job. He simply cannot, and it has been his propensity to lose the ball that has led to plenty of pressure against our defense. Hell, it was his fault that Diego got the ball to score against us in pre-season.

Milan is in transition this year, and it's going to be painful. Not against the smaller sides, I actually think we will do better this year than last year against the smaller sides, but, I do not want to watch us play Real Madrid. Even if they are unbalanced, this Milan cannot take advantage of that.

Luis Fabiano is garbage, and while I certainly do trust Brasiliero's assessment of players, this one I cannot agree with. I think he was used in similar fashion to Adebayor last year. Watching him play in the CL semi-final, where he just stood around, do you really think that Carlo would want such a player? Berlu likes them, obviously (Dinho) but Carlo?

Huntelaar is the better choice to Fabiano, especially considering how we rely on the big striker to hold onto the ball.

The new Milan is here, it's just in the building stages. I think this season will be like the half-season that Carlo had before taking Milan to new heights. The backbone of the future Milan is: Thiago Silva, Abate, Flamini, Pato, and Huntelaar.

This year will be about building up ourselves, and seeing if we don't get lucky with some results. Next summer, hopefully Berlu will find a way around his advisers and finally spend some money, because the only reason he isn't spending money is because of the politics revolving the economy right now. Stop saying he doesn't care and all that other bull****, because last year, he spent 8.5 million on Zambro, 21 million on Dinho, 10 million on Borriello, and Galliani pulled off one of the transfer coups by grabbing Flamini for free. That was last year. That is 40 million spent in the summer, plus Pato was bought for 18 million in the previous winter transfer window (Jan 2008) while Thiago Silva arrived here for around 10 million in Jan 2009.

So honestly, it's not that Berlusconi is scared of spending money, he just can't. I don't know why we keep saying he should sell the club and that he doesn't care about Milan. I'm looking at the amount of energy he puts into news conferences and public appearances with Milan, and I can't believe he's the Prime Minister of a country!

Can you imagine Obama going to games? The man gets in trouble for spending too much time with his wife.

If you want Berlusconi to spend money, if you're Italian, then vote for the other party.

I'm not defending Berlusconi, by the way. I hate him, I study politics, and I'm not a fan of his xenophobic and ignorant ways, but as the President of AC Milan, he has done a lot.

At the end of the day, Milan is in a tough place. However, if it is any consolation to many of you here, then, a great manager once said "League titles are not won and lost in the big glamorous games, they are won against relegation battlers, mid-week games against average opponents." Perhaps if Milan continue to beat the Bari's, Siena's, and the like, and Inter continue to draw and lose to them, then maybe things will take a turn for the better? Who knows?

Forza Milan.

The thing is that, Milan also got a lot of money in players sold from last season. With Gila, RO, Brocchi and a few other youngster. They also did not spend any added funds this year.
Hunter came for 15Mil in a three years installment plan, and T. Silva was paid for about 10Mil. Thats 15mil spent, where they sold Kaka for 65 and Gourcuff for 15.

And I disagree with you Samaldinho. Our transfer philosophy (or lack thereof) has been terrible since this squad was constructed in 2003. Weaknesses in the squad were never appropriately addressed---cheap "band aids" were bought to cover up holes, that's it. A few points:

1) Our 2007 CL victory was due to 2 things---luck and Kaka. I don't buy this argument of the team being solid and we having the best team in Europe rubbish. We were lucky, we had nothing left to play for in the league, we did not have injuries, and fortunately we hit good form at the right time. Then there was Kaka who carried the team on his back, scored some crucial goals, and almost single-handedly won us the CL. Look at the final against Liverpool in 07----did the best team win?

2) No one has a problem with signing players like Dhorasoo, Vogel, etc as back-ups because that is what they are. But what about signing some world class players who can offer more than what the current crop was offering? Imagine not signing Kaka because we had the great Rui Costa. This is the same mentality that B and G have. Why sign Amauri when we have Boriello? Why sign Melo when we have Gattuso? Why sign Diego when we have R80? That's pathetic. How are we going to improve as a team if we don't continually reinforce the squad? Imagine Barca resting on their laurels after winning the treble last year. No, they signed Ibra who will add an extra dimension to their game. Isn't that what improvement is all about? Or do we play our champions til their legs break and then think about replacing them?

3) In your backbone of Milan list, the only players I agree with are Flamini and Pato. Thiago Silva has only played 2 official games for us---are you sure he will prove consistent enough to be our backbone? I need to see more to be able to say that. Same with Abate. The guy has had a few good games this summer. So this qualifies him to be the future of Milan? Bring in players of the caliber of Fabregas and Torres and maybe we can talk about the future of Milan.

3) I don't think this is a transition year. We have virtually the same squad as last year minus Kaka. A transition year is when most of the squad has been replaced by new players and we need to wait for things to gel. I don't see too many new players in our squad, unless you want to count Zigoni, Berreta, Abate, etc who will hardly get playing time. This is not the new Milan. This is the old Milan MINUS Kaka.

4) Huntelaar was Real Madrid's trash and our 3rd choice. With the amount of money we got from player sales this year, it is sad that we can't compete with other so-called top clubs for the top players, rather we end up settling for their waste products or picking up players on the cheap or for free. Sounds like a second tier club doesn't it? With the way things are going, we'll be joining Napoli, Lazio, Fiorentina, Palermo very soon as serie A's second tier clubs fighting for a place in the Europa Cup. And our managment has sat back and allowed this to happen. Inter, Juve, and we have had difficult years before, finishing mid-table, but at least every effort was put in to compete at the very top. This time around, no effort put in to remain at the top or even to enter a proper transition phase and we all sit around and watch things unfold.

Close this thread. Those spineless kunts won't spend any money to improve the number 1oooo team in the world.

rt9, I think we agree far more then we think.

I do not think that not adding world class players was a good thing. I'm saying that since around 2006, we have not brought in the Dhorasoo and Vogel type of players that would have prolonged the careers of Pirlo, Gattuso, and Seedorf.

However, I also think that additions should have been made, in the form of more promising, younger players. The transition from Rui Costa to Kaka is the perfect example of how I wish we conducted the transfers of our players. While not everyone can be a Kaka, looking at Marchiso at Juventus, I envy Juventus.

I think it is a transition year, not in that next year we will be seeing results, but rather, this will be the hard and long period of transition like the end of 1996 to basically 2001, Milan had a tough time (even though in our centenary year we won the league).

With the backbone list, so far Thiago Silva seems to have a very bright future. I also think that Abate has a bright future ahead of him. You are right, they are not proven, but I'm sticking my neck out and saying that they have a long-term future with Milan.

I don't think Milan's transfer policy has been as pathetic as you say, it has been poor, but mostly towards non-footballing reasons. For whatever reasons, Gourcuff, Ricardo Oliveira, Gilardino, and others have not been able to rejuvenate the squad. That has been the major problem. Oddo went off the boil after a half season. Janku has dropped off in levels at an alarming rate. Nesta missed an entire season.

Again, I'm not saying that Milan's transfer policy has been the best, but when they say injuries have played a huge part in our demise, they are right. Have they reacted properly to these setbacks? No, I don't think they have, but they have been massive. Had Chiellini missed an entire season, and a whole host of other issue beset Juventus, they would try and grab players to help themselves along, but we don't, and that bothers me.

However, if you're a Milan player, you think about it, you'll say we were the second best defense in Serie A last year, why can't we maintain that?

The only thing that I think we actually disagree on is Huntelaar.

Calling Huntelaar's Real's trash is fine, I guess you can spin it that way. Seedorf and Pirlo were Inter's trash, and look at what we did.

But my question is, was Huntelaar really our third choice? I mean, if Galliani is such a huge liar (which to the media, he is) then why should we believe that he was after Dzeko or Luis Fabiano? Maybe Huntelaar was the main choice the entire time? Who knows?

Frankly speaking, he is a prolific goal scorer, and had he arrived at Milan prior to his Real Madrid stint (which he still scored at quite a respectable rate, anyways) I don't think many would be calling him a second rate player, because I don't think Napoli, Lazio, or Fiorentina could attract a player like Huntelaar.

Let's not get dramatic here, Milan still is a big team, and despite us losing to Inter 4-0, it was in the 2000-01 season that Milan destroyed Inter 6-0, but Inter finished above us. And before people yell at me, yes, I know blah blah blah, Inter is a better squad and whatever. The point is, one result does not mean the end, and just because we lost to Inter, does not mean that Milan is done for.

Can we just wait until January to judge Milan's potential? Or at least a few more games, hell, how about 3 more games, that way pre-game previews can have 5 games to put results for in showing current form for either team.

I'd just like to add, that Milan's biggest problem is that we do not get enough transfers from within Serie A. It makes our transfers more unpredictable, and we suffer.

Looking at Juventus, with Diego clearly not going anywhere, I think Giovinco is worth spending a good bit of money on. He's not going to play, and he's annoyed by that fact. Sure he's injured, but give him the chance to play for us, even on loan.

He said he was a Milan fan as a boy, why the hell not?

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I'd just like to add, that Milan's biggest problem is that we do not get enough transfers from within Serie A. It makes our transfers more unpredictable, and we suffer.

Looking at Juventus, with Diego clearly not going anywhere, I think Giovinco is worth spending a good bit of money on. He's not going to play, and he's annoyed by that fact. Sure he's injured, but give him the chance to play for us, even on loan.

He said he was a Milan fan as a boy, why the hell not?

Mostly because Juve is not stupid enough to sell their young prospect, especially to a domestic rival such as milan.

Originally Posted by meazza

our teams problem is not this or that player, it's the whole transfer policy. Why do we have so many makeshift options in the team, why do we need to keep recalling players that have been out the team for ages.

Janku couldn't get a game for about 2 seasons, now all of a sudden he's the first choice left back? Storari floated about on loan, now he's pulled straight into the side, boriello the same.

we've not put any effort into raising these players, we've just hastily pulled them into the side to cover gaps. When are we going to look at our team and go, "this is what we need, now who do we get?"

and please Leo, lose the stupid Diamond midfield, it was great when it first came in but it's had it's day. don't need it now Kaka is gone anyway and we have no good playmaking midfielder to put in his place.

Good post, but I don't think Leo wants to play the diamond midfield if I'm honest. Having to accomodate Dinho is the problem. Dinho isn't useful in the wide areas these days and to fit him into the side we're forced to play 4-3-1-2. Imagine if instead of Dinho we bought a player suited to Leonardo's original 4-3-3, or even inserted Abate in Dinho's position. The result would be...

--------------Abbiati--------------
Zambro---Nesta---Thiago----Janku
---------Rino---------Flamini------
---------------Pirlo----------------
---Abate--------------------------
------------------------Pato-------
--------------Huntelaar------------

Abate would provide us with more threat down the right, which would result in better balance. As I said yesterday, our attacks are too concentrated down the left as we don't have enough down the right with Rino and Zambro (only Zambro is an attacking threat). Down the left we generally have Pato, Flamini and Janku.

Pirlo wouldn't have to play deep either, and instead can be used with more freedom moving up into the trequartista position as Dinho won't be there restricting his movement. Currently, if Pirlo tries to move up, he will inevitably get in Dinho's way, and with Dinho's lack of movement there's no hope of Pirlo pushing up with Dinho drifting around the pitch, which would be ideal as it would make it more difficult to stop our attacking play.

If we're realistically going to move forward, then Berlu cannot force Leo to play certain individuals and we need correct investment (we need at least one FB to replace Janku, arguably 2). I also don't care how talented Dinho is, if he's tactically hampering us then I don't see what good it is to have him. What we need to really fit Leo's ideas is a wide right forward, which will support and create our attacking trident headed by Huntelaar and supported by Pato (who would play the role he's already playing).

My first post since black saturday bad bad bad!!! However I do not think that Milan are 4 goals worse than Inter , and had we had a LB who can actually defend it would not of been 4 it would of been a different game. Rino would not of been in a 1 on 1 race with eto that he prob wouldn't of won had he been driving. Inters first goal was very good even if Flamini lost his man (a rare mistake by Flams) and the third also might not of gone in.

It is clear that our left side is weak we badly need a LB and LM rather than sending Abate to RB and Zambro to Lb not a solution.
Who would be good for a LB Evra never going to happen Cissokho would have been good he's young fast big strong good in the tackle not world class yet.

I would also like a left sided midfielder not a winger just someone who can play on the left side of our 3 man midfield (would switch that). Now I do agree with Samaldinho that if Berlu could go and spend 60 million today he would , and I know that its his money but he is the leader of Italy and can't be seen to spend copious amounts of money on his toy.

And I believe that the reason he will not sell is because he will not be president PM for ever and then can spend again. I also see what people say when they comment on not spending crazy money and buying players for realistic money maybe 30 - 40 million. And this has not happened so people are mad and frustrated I know I am.

The reinforcements we would all like are not going to come know or in January so what does Leo do IDK. But Berlu is not an idiot despite what people might say he knows the less he spends the more damaging to the club and the books it will be.

And Im going to mention a name now no Maldini but surely Antonini is a better option than Janku actually I know he is. And if that Left sided midfielder arrived I would cut Dinho out altogether might motivate him he's arrogant and full of crap needs an attitude adjustment.


..................Abbiati........................

Zambro......Silva.......Nesta......Antonini....


..................Flamini ...........................

Abate..............................New LM.......

..................Pirlo......................................



.........Huntelaar.........Pato .........


But what do I know , shape a bit off but you get the Idea.

How do we expect to compete for the schudetto if we have NO MID what so ever.. it's non exsistent i dont know whats going on with dinho,pirlo GATTUSO!? and seedorf, actually i shoudl leave seedorf out of the list and pirlo is so and so, he has his games nowadays. Why? BECAUSE we have no back up, noone to take over pirlos job of giving good balls up to the box or crossing .. basically just controlling the midfield in a technical aspect.. Well actually abate should be given the opportunity but to be honest if we start playing abate more often he should be playing in r80s position not so much pirlo. The 4-0 loss to inter was pure lacking balls to the attackers and putting the ball in the back of the net. we play pato as a support striker and clearly if noones noticed he can't do that. he's a great player but to maybe go around 1 player and hit it in the back of the net, not go through 2-3 players and pass it up to hunter/borriello. also, id like to add boriello is worthless imo noone comment because it wont change my mind about him. I understand im just adding more negativity to the thread but hey everyone else is letting off their steam so why not :P also i agree that this year team is not improving and does not need time to learn how to work as a team, it's just the same old milan - kaka whoever said that, good words. and who have we bought to replace kaka? as if we needed more forwards? i'd rather just have pato boriello and inzaghi and spend the same we spent on huntelaar on hernanes or a good midfielder so we could do upfront :


.........................Abbiati...............................
Zambro............Silva........Nesta.......Antonini....
..........................Gattuso............................
....Abate..................................Flamini?.........
...............Pirlo...............hernanes..................
......................Pato..........................................

This line-up would give so many options, we'd have a solid defence and also get crosses in from antonini and zambro, then we'd have gattuso to gaurd the defence abate and flamini also could act defensively and technically by givinng the ball up to pirlo or hernanes and either one of them could take on a few players and supply the passes/crosses for Pato, with r80 for back up for either pirlo or hernanes and then we'd have borriello and inzaghi for the odd few games pato cant play, but no we need to keep buying strikers... and another BIG point id like to add is we should really work around our old christmas tree formation that left the top teams in europe in the dust and build our team around that buying the needed replacements

All of these ideas here of different lineups look 101% than wat berlu suggests

Everyone counts on Pirlo, but this man plays disgustingly slow football. If you can watch the game again, please loos at the way Pirlo played against Maicon, Sneijder ( except for 2,3 fouls from "pressing" ) etc. He doesnt run at all and is not a top player he used to be.

Pirlo cant play what coach wants him to play, so he plays what he wants to. Sad picture.

And Seedorf didnt came in coz he didnt wear his shirt and wasnt fully equiped for the game while sitting on the bench... WTF? Whats wrong with him?? The queen doesnt play first 11 so he doesnt need to be ready?

Look at reactions from Ambro and Pirlo on the field - you cant defend with those players anymore.

Marek - he is a player for PArma now. His reactions are hillarious, he lets his man go 5m in front of him. Every team in the world knows whey need to play few inside passes on our left and there you go.

This team needs 5,6 new and great players if it wants to be top team again. Its unbalanced and wrongly composed to start with. Everyone can see that ( well maybe few fanatics on forums but in here people are NOW pretty objective ).

I saw some in here say we are stronger then RM and we can beat them. Well I cant wait for Zambro and MArek and Pirlo to defend against KAka', Ronaldo, Benzema, Raul...
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And the thing Im dissapointed the most in: MILAN ULTRAS! Looks like they are aghain in peace with Berlusconi! as calciomercato says. If that is the truth then its a bunch of payed off hooligans, just like Maldini said. Without Fossa its a circus. People that follow Milano fsshin week and get payed to support Silvio...nice ultra group we have!

Forza Milan! And we'll all stay to support, but untill Milan is sold hard times are here for us.