Livorno - Milan (12-13/10/09)

Originally Posted by K77SH C

He is a centre back, he is black. He got turned inside out by a napoli player fo a goal. Not really seen to much though.

I don't know why he started and played the full 90 mins in Livorno's two games so far. Perhaps their 1st choice CB is injured. Well, at least if he continues this way, it's a good news for us

The lateness of Huntelaar's arrival may haunt us in the game, as he is certainly not @ peak fitness, and shouldn't play the entire 90...also, what sort of chemistry will he and his team-mates have developed in the short space of time they have had together?

Ultimately, we can only hope that talent will override tenacity, as Livorno can only have that over us, if anything.

If we can prevent Lucarelli (and Livorno overall) from scoring, then we can only hope that we put a couple in the back of the net...

FORZA MILAN!!

Leo should stop playing this diamond formation, simply becaue we don't have the players that could do well in the beloved formation of Carlo. It worked really well, now its time for a change. I simply don't understand how can these simple things not come to the minds of so called professionals????? How can Leo not understand that the diamond formation no longer effective for ACM????? Its not all about B&G, Leo needs to show some inovation as well. The coach should see the players and then decided about his formation, not the other way. Leo talks about the formations and then tries to adjust players in that formation, without realizing that we don't have players for the diamond or 4-3-3 formation. Just start with the simple 4-4-2.

....................................................
.......................GK.........................
....................................................
...Zomby...Nesta.....Onywu....Silva.....
.....................................................
...Abate...Seedorf....Flamini...Janku....
....................................................
.............Huntelaar......Pato..............
.....................................................

for the central midfield, inform Pirlo, Ambr and Rino are also the options. Ronaldinho should be used as a super sub or as a second striker. No more as a playmaker. Antonini and Bonera are also useful players if used in a wise way.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

The lateness of Huntelaar's arrival may haunt us in the game, as he is certainly not @ peak fitness, and shouldn't play the entire 90...also, what sort of chemistry will he and his team-mates have developed in the short space of time they have had together?

Ultimately, we can only hope that talent will override tenacity, as Livorno can only have that over us, if anything.

If we can prevent Lucarelli (and Livorno overall) from scoring, then we can only hope that we put a couple in the back of the net...

FORZA MILAN!!

Well Huntelaar has been here for almost a month now, he even played and scored (Although he played as a sub) for the Netherlands earlier in the week. I think he should be fully fit, and let's hope for a goal from him.

Also in my opinion the flat 4-4-2 isn't really something for Milan. Last season Carlo played 4-4-1-1 often to defend leads, and it was always a disastor. I don't think there's anything wrong with the 4-3-1-2. I still think that that's the system that fits our players the best. People like to blame the derby defeat on Ronaldinho, but in reality it was the whole team that let us down. In the first 20 minutes he was involved in some decent stuff, although he probably should've scored. Later after Gattuso's red card he got the daunting task of playing as a second striker, which in all fairness isn't really what he's best at anymore regardless off what Silvio says. He is to static, and he simply doesn't recieve the ball against someone like Inter, Lucio had him in his pocket basicly. Still his playmaking skills as a Trequartista are unmatched, and to suggest that he doesn't have a place in the current Milan team is something I can't agree with.

In any case, it's way to early to write him off, and as much as I like Abate and Borriello, playing either of them instead of Ronaldinho is ludacriss.

Its simple. Milan will win. They have to. There s no excuse to not beat a side like Livorno.
Id like to see Huntlaar in the starting 11 and also see Abate being used.

Originally Posted by nefremo

Good thought everyone.

Dev, me and you have long been advocates of pushing Pirlo closer to the opponents goal. But the other problem in Milan, like it's been said here times and times before, is the movement around him. But that's another discussion.

For this weekend I'd like to see him with more freedom and playing in front of Flamini - Ambrosini. Against Livorno we won't need too much cover in front of our goal, but only good tactical set up so we have numbers in the back whenever they choose to attack. Flamini-Ambro can cover well so Pirlo can move freely forward and be closer to the opponents' box. Put Dinho and Pato on the flanks to spread the Livorno defense and leave Klaas in the middle to be fed with balls. We will get our width from Dinho and Pato, since our fullbacks are useless.

So

----------------------Storari----------------

Antonini - Onyewu/Favalli - Thiago - Zambrota

-----------Flamini-----------Ambrosini--------

---------------------Pirlo--------------------

---Pato----------------------------Dinho----

----------------Huntelaar--------------------

I know this is taking Pato's shot somewhat away (Mrki), but the kid can be lethal with both legs. In any case.......right now our fullbacks offer nothing in terms of width, so everyone needs to make a sucrifice so we can see how this is going to work out. Dinho is not what he was and he wont burn players on the wing, but again, it'll give us width on that side and we'll se how it works out. At the end of the day....it's not like he'll be nailed to the touchline. He can still move in and get closer to Pirlo.

I choose Onyewu/Favalli over Nesta since we're going to have a CL game midweek that we'll need Nesta to play. And I choose Antonini instead of Janku.....................actually, I don't need to explain there.

So call this a 4-3-3, call it a 4-2-3-1, call it a 4-2-1-2-1. Call it whatever you want, but we need to spread out the play AND be dangerous at the same time. With Janku and Zambro we do spread out the play sometimes but we are never dangerous because they can't mange to do anything when in possesion.....or what they do manage to do is too few and far between. We can also use Pirlo closer to the goal, because we are wasting him by keeping him 5meters away from the CBs expecially against a team like Livorno. There is no need for that.

Hopefully we'll get back on track with a couple of wins this comming week so we can jumpstart our season again.

I agree with most of your post. Obviously on the Pirlo part I think we're both in complete agreement. I'd play Pato on the left as he's most dangerous starting there drifting across the pitch. Even though the left side is Dinho's natural wing, I feel we'd compromise Pato's threat if we don't play him on the left.

I'd also play Nesta. I think he looks pretty good this season and really we need him ready for a busy schedule. I really feel Abate deserves a starting spot too, just to test him out. In preseason he's been one of the more consistent performers and did well in a few roles. I'd like to see him tried in a RB role to see if he actually can be better than what we've seen so far. However, if not I wouldn't have qualms about dropping Dinho and having Abate down the right and Pato down the left.

Leo's confirmed playing Pirlo further up is difficult due to others playing in the same position. I read this to mean "I have to play Dinho, what can I do?". In that regard, I'd give Dinho one last chance to prove himself. This doesn't mean to prove his ability as he did against Siena, but to prove his value to the side with his work rate and movement. Should he work hard for the team, then I'm happy to keep him. Otherwise, forget whatever Berlu says and drop him immediately.

Originally Posted by Christian

In any case, it's way to early to write him off, and as much as I like Abate and Borriello, playing either of them instead of Ronaldinho is ludacriss.

I can't agree with that. For all of his talents and abilities, Dinho is shockingly static this season. He barely moves on and off the ball now and never helps defensively (Pato helps more with defensive duties for definite).

Whilst neither Abate and Borriello are anywhere near as talented, their movement benefits the team much more (particularly Abate). In this regard, dropping Dinho in his current state may benefit the team as a whole.

I will try like this:

----------------------------Dida------------------------
Zambro----------Nesta------------Silva----------Kaladze
------------------------Seedorf-------------------------
------------Flamini--------------------------------------
--------------------------------Pirlo--------------------
--------Pato---------Huntelaar-------Ronaldinho---------

If you remeber Seedorf last year played at Pirlo's role and he do it very well, so why not to start like this.

my team a 44231 or 433 (that way silvio wont B-I-T-C-H) about R80 not starting


--------------Storari-----------------

Antonini---Silva---(Nesta should be saved aganst Marseille)----Oddo


---------Flamini------Pirlo------------


------R80------------Pato-----------

-------------Pirlo----------------

-----------Klass-------------------

lets try a 4231 that way we can work the edges which should be alott easier im not sure but nesta should not start based on the fact we HAVE TO BEAT MARSEILLE ON TUESDAY! Modulo (4231)



--------Storari----------

Antonini----Silva---Flamini---Oddo------


Seedorf--------------Abate------------

------------R80------------------------


Pirlo-------------------Pato-------------

----------Klass-------------------------


(modulo 433)


abate seedorf can both be used to bring the ball from the back since our widebacks are garbage and should just defend again no nesta infact mabey many of you will go crazy but i think gattuso should start in france let pirlo play his role uptop since i herd he gets tired more backtracking so much oguchi wasent called up weird anybody?

for this weekend-

Stoari
Abate-Silva-Gooch-Antonini
Seedorf-Flamini-Ambro
Pirlo(c)
Pato-Hunt

i would like to give this a try. we need to rest a few players for France.

Originally Posted by Rossoneri Fuego

--------Storari----------

Antonini----Silva---Flamini---Oddo------


Seedorf--------------Abate------------

------------R80------------------------


Pirlo-------------------Pato-------------

----------Klass-------------------------


(modulo 433)


abate seedorf can both be used to bring the ball from the back since our widebacks are garbage and should just defend again no nesta infact mabey many of you will go crazy but i think gattuso should start in france let pirlo play his role uptop since i herd he gets tired more backtracking so much oguchi wasent called up weird anybody?

This is insane. If you want Pirlo as AM, there are only a few options for that to happen:

--------Flamini-----Ambro
--------------Pirlo

-------Pato----------Ronaldinho
--------------Huntelaar

Best used against: Weak opposition. This one means Pirlo isn't really an AM, but more of a CM. He's the link between Flam/Ambro and the attacking trio. They steal the ball, give it to Pirlo, who would play it short to Ronnie or Pato or long to Huntelaar. The danger here is that he won't have as much time as he does at DM, but he's closer and has arguably more options. The attention given to Pirlo would allow R80 more space to receive the ball and turn.

Another option is this:

-----Flamini---Seedorf----Ambro

-------------Pirlo
---------------------Ronaldinho

------------Huntelaar

Best used against: Good sides at San Siro.

or

-------------Pirlo
------------------------Pato
---------Huntelaar

Best used against: Great sides away.

My preference for our best 11 is the latter, but I doubt Leo can bench R80 so early in the season. Yet Pato does great when off the bench and defenders are tired. I'd rather we mix it up and find what weapons are best used against what opponents instead of sticking with one 11 all the time. We have lots of options, and I hope we use them all.

For Livorno, i'd rather use Pirlo as CM with only 2 DM's behind him and 3 attackers in front of him.

WHY would we EVER use a team without Pato, just to insert Dinho against "good sides at the San Siro"? Im not provocing Brk, Im asking?

About today:

I doubt Kaladze is fit for the LB for today. But I dont know, maybe he is. If that is the case we could see him on the left. As much as we all hate to see Kaladze in this horrible form he is a better LB defensively then Marek and I hope he'll show it soon. We made a great mistake by not signing Grosso for the WC year but Kaladze has similar caracteristics when he is fit for a LB.

I believe we'll see this midfield today:

-----------Pirlo---------
---Flamini------Seedorf----
----------Dinho------

unless See will be on the bench again so he can play CL next week. Maybe Clarence got serious and actually trained for past few weeks so he can actually run, who knows.

Originally Posted by mrki

WHY would we EVER use a team without Pato, just to insert Dinho against "good sides at the San Siro"? Im not provocing Brk, Im asking?
.

I know, it sounds silly, but I think Pato coming in for 30 minutes in the second half while the defenders are tired and running his ass off is a good thing. He scored a lot of goals coming of the bench. The difference between this, and playing away, is that there is less space in the San Siro. Away from home, he'll find space all game long. Ronnie can work with Pirlo and Seedorf to control the game and tire the opponents and maybe score a goal. It's a patient way of playing, but maybe i'm overthinking and not really making sense...

It is completely wrong to take out only player who can change tempo in favour of subjective likness towards some players. Pato used to come in coz he was 17-18 years old boy that had Kaka' in first 11 and Milan could afford that. Now Pato is without a doubt our best player.

What we are missing is another vertical player who can change the rithm in a second; Seedorf, Dinho and Pirlo are completely uncapable of that.

Yeah, maybe you're right. Pato is without a doubt our best player now. Lets hope we see hints tonight of his partnership potential with Huntelaar.

I agree with Mr.Burns (Ki?), Pato has replaced Kaka' now, he should therefore start every match.
However, I am against Leonardo only playing Huntelaar in the starting lineup in order to rest Inzaghi for the match against Marseille. Even in that match, Huntelaar should start. He should be in our starting lineup with Pato everytime because he is a natural scorer.