Banter 2009/2010

Pato recieves the ball ALWAYS with 2 man in front of him as none of Pippo, Pirlo, Seedorf can open up space on their sides. They what should PAto do? Play fast? HOW? To pass to Pirlo and then do what? to play 1 on 1 with - who? Seedorf? To take his man on and then play where - 20m back to Seedorf? Pato has no team to play in!

Bad news for Serie A as Andrea de Valle has stepped down as the president of Fiorentina a few minutes ago........

Originally Posted by mrki

Pato recieves the ball ALWAYS with 2 man in front of him as none of Pippo, Pirlo, Seedorf can open up space on their sides. They what should PAto do? Play fast? HOW? To pass to Pirlo and then do what? to play 1 on 1 with - who? Seedorf? To take his man on and then play where - 20m back to Seedorf? Pato has no team to play in!

Mrki, I always like to read your posts on tactics and play. I usually agree but not this time my friend.

Like I said, I love Pato and think he has the talent to become one fo the best in the world....

But let's not lie to ourselves here. You are blaming a whole team and saying that pato can't play fast football because no-one else does. Which is fine to an extend and I agree. But Pato is not even TRYING to play fast football.

The way Pato has played football the past 2-3 games, he won't even look good in Barcelona where the entire team works for you and you have 5-6 options on the ball at all times. He needs to go back to basics and go back to the things that got him to where he is. One-Two touch passes when he is far away from the box or by the sideline. Make the defender come out to guard you and pass the ball back. Create a pocket behind the defender so when you get the ball back you have space to run at and space to beat the player.(if you understand what I mean by this)

The fact of the matter is that Pato has not kept his high level of performance and has gone down with the team. What I am asking from the kid is to play high level. YES, I do want him to pass the ball back to Pirlo AS LONG AS that's the right decision. I want him to make the right decision and then if his team mates fuk it up then fine. At least he did his part. But he is not doing that. He has become a too big of a superstar way too fast and thinks he can do everything on his own at times.

Let me give you an example of what I want from him : Ronaldinho yesterday against Udinese. (This is NOT a prize on Dinho and I don't have to explain why, but it is only an example) That's what I want from him. I want him to revitalize the team and pick up the level just like Ronaldinho did when he came in. He brought others into play, he moved around and he PICKED UP EVERYONE'S GAME for a while there. That's what I want Pato to do because I KNOW that he is capable of doing that. And when he does that and we still struggle like we are now............THAT'S when I'll agree with you that this team is slowing down his football and he looks completely out of sorts because of everyone around him.

Untill then and untill I see that he is above everyone else's level, I'll rest my case. But right now he doesn't differentiate from everyone else. When I watch the games I can't say that I see him differently then everyone else. I can't say he does any better then the others and they are messing it all up.

It's just my opinion.

but just to mention, I DO expect that to happen and I expect it to happen very soon because the kid has the talent to do that......however it seems in the past couple of weeks like he is loosing his way a little bit. Maybe we'll see the real Pato on Sunday who knows.

"As soon as I got the ball and I had a free path I went to shoot at goal. I wasn't thinking about anything else,"
-Cristiano Ronaldo on his goal against Villareal.

I want Pato to read that and remember that he can and should do the same.

Beside the Inter game we have had an easy start Siena , Livorna , Bologna , even Udinese that there should of been 12 points and only a couple off the top , but instead we have 7 and after the Bari , Atalanta games if we don't get six points we have a tough a run of 5 or 6 games and coulld realistically be out of the scudetto race and way off the top four. This is a pssibility but I hope im wrong.

Let's not spiral out of control guys, Milan played much better than Bologna, if we didn't hit the post, we would have won 3-0, at least.

Against Udinese, even if we were not at our best, we still outplayed Udinese. They had some long range shots, but they really didn't even trouble us. The second half was played in Udinese's half. We shot ourselves in the foot, and a big part of that is the strikers are out of whack.

I'm going to go as far as to blame Pato. That kid is great, amazing, talented. But, I've said it once, I'll say it a million times, he is not a second striker. I honestly don't see what difference it makes from him playing second striker or as a primo punta. He gets hacked and pushed no matter what, in fact, he gets pushed down more when he's farther away from the opposition's box.

If Pato is hurt, hopefully Ronaldinho will be able to play as a second striker (like he did against Udinese) because frankly, if Ronaldinho was on the field the 90 minutes against Udinese, I think we would have won.

Pato is the second coming of Ronaldo. Not Cristiano Ronaldo, not Ronaldinho, the real Ronaldo. Pato is trying to be this hybrid winger/forward thing that he just can't pull off. He has the finishing skills to do that, he has the pace, the skills, and its not even the decision making.

The kid does best as an out-and-out striker because he is given no other choice, but to attack. Push forward, get a shot, maybe pull it back, but mostly "shoot! shoot! shoot!"

I think, with everyone fit, our best team is actually this:

----------Abbiati
Abate---Nesta--Silva--Zambro
---Flamini--Pirlo---Ambro
---------Seedorf
----Pato--------Ronaldinho

If you haven't noticed, but Ambro, despite not coming through in attack (when he usually does a decent job) has been able to really lead this team. Against Marseille, Bologna, he was huge in both games. He was able to give security to the team, but also, without the risk of getting sent off like Flamini and Gattuso have done so far this season.

Abate has not completely convinced me as a RB, but what limited defensive prowess he has (though he has shown he can get stuck in, I'm talking about tactical knowledge) he makes up with incredible grit, speed, and the willingness to attack directly. His crosses actually go someplace, and that's the biggest issue with Oddo. If Oddo's crosses actually counted for something, he'd be our hands-down starting RB. But he hasn't, he hasn't since 2008, January 2008 that is.

If Pato doesn't play against Bari, that's good enough for me. He needs to rest, and hopefully the Ronaldinho of Udinese will show up, and perhaps that will convince Leonardo (through good works) that Dinho still has a future with this team.

It seems that Berlu has given Galliani the green light to actually use some purchasing power in the winter. Is that really true? I'm not sure. Rafinha and Beckham would be great choices, as this team truly does not need revolution, it simply needs a FB to either compliment Zambro, or free up Abate to play in midfield alongside Flamini.

Next summer though? I'm expecting lots of names coming in, Berlu is a businessman at the end of the day, and if the reports of season ticket sales are true, then he knows he'll have to spend money to make money. He couldn't spend money this last summer because of his political career, but, I think the best way to make him change is when it comes to his bank account. That's why I'm not buying any AC Milan gear until I feel something changes. Neither should you.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

Let's not spiral out of control guys, Milan played much better than Bologna, if we didn't hit the post, we would have won 3-0, at least.

Against Udinese, even if we were not at our best, we still outplayed Udinese. They had some long range shots, but they really didn't even trouble us. The second half was played in Udinese's half. We shot ourselves in the foot, and a big part of that is the strikers are out of whack.

I'm going to go as far as to blame Pato. That kid is great, amazing, talented. But, I've said it once, I'll say it a million times, he is not a second striker. I honestly don't see what difference it makes from him playing second striker or as a primo punta. He gets hacked and pushed no matter what, in fact, he gets pushed down more when he's farther away from the opposition's box.

If Pato is hurt, hopefully Ronaldinho will be able to play as a second striker (like he did against Udinese) because frankly, if Ronaldinho was on the field the 90 minutes against Udinese, I think we would have won.

Pato is the second coming of Ronaldo. Not Cristiano Ronaldo, not Ronaldinho, the real Ronaldo. Pato is trying to be this hybrid winger/forward thing that he just can't pull off. He has the finishing skills to do that, he has the pace, the skills, and its not even the decision making.

The kid does best as an out-and-out striker because he is given no other choice, but to attack. Push forward, get a shot, maybe pull it back, but mostly "shoot! shoot! shoot!"

I think, with everyone fit, our best team is actually this:

----------Abbiati
Abate---Nesta--Silva--Zambro
---Flamini--Pirlo---Ambro
---------Seedorf
----Pato--------Ronaldinho

If you haven't noticed, but Ambro, despite not coming through in attack (when he usually does a decent job) has been able to really lead this team. Against Marseille, Bologna, he was huge in both games. He was able to give security to the team, but also, without the risk of getting sent off like Flamini and Gattuso have done so far this season.

Abate has not completely convinced me as a RB, but what limited defensive prowess he has (though he has shown he can get stuck in, I'm talking about tactical knowledge) he makes up with incredible grit, speed, and the willingness to attack directly. His crosses actually go someplace, and that's the biggest issue with Oddo. If Oddo's crosses actually counted for something, he'd be our hands-down starting RB. But he hasn't, he hasn't since 2008, January 2008 that is.

If Pato doesn't play against Bari, that's good enough for me. He needs to rest, and hopefully the Ronaldinho of Udinese will show up, and perhaps that will convince Leonardo (through good works) that Dinho still has a future with this team.

It seems that Berlu has given Galliani the green light to actually use some purchasing power in the winter. Is that really true? I'm not sure. Rafinha and Beckham would be great choices, as this team truly does not need revolution, it simply needs a FB to either compliment Zambro, or free up Abate to play in midfield alongside Flamini.

Next summer though? I'm expecting lots of names coming in, Berlu is a businessman at the end of the day, and if the reports of season ticket sales are true, then he knows he'll have to spend money to make money. He couldn't spend money this last summer because of his political career, but, I think the best way to make him change is when it comes to his bank account. That's why I'm not buying any AC Milan gear until I feel something changes. Neither should you.

pretty sold team. I am hugely convinced that since Cassano has a 20 mil buyout clause that if we make one purchase, it should be him

Originally Posted by brk

"As soon as I got the ball and I had a free path I went to shoot at goal. I wasn't thinking about anything else,"
-Cristiano Ronaldo on his goal against Villareal.

I want Pato to read that and remember that he can and should do the same.

Nah, I wouldn't want Pato to become like Cristiano Ronaldo. The reason he scores so many goals is that he shoots EVERY time he has the ball, everytime. It's definetly a good skill when you got a good shot like he does (and like Pato does), but sometimes it turns out to be a bad habbit, and at the end of the day, Cristiano Ronaldo has always been the kind of player that scores the 3rd and the 4th goal against Burnley and he might even score a goal against Chelsea, but he'll never be able to lift a team like someone like Kaká or Zidane could.

I've never thought Pato/Pippo was a very good partnership up front, and I still don't think so. Pato is one of my favorite players, and Pippo is definetly one of my all time favorites, but they just don't mix together in my opinion. Pato's best periode ever for us was when he played alone in front of Kaká/Ronaldinho and Seedorf. The last part of last season, where Pato and Pippo played infront, Pato wasn't really the world-beater that he was from January to March (or something like that), and it wasn exactly that period where Pippo and Pato was playing together. Pippo was scoring alot, but Pato wasn't as good as he could be. I think someone like Borriello or even Huntelaar, perhaps can help him out alot more since they have better technique, but ultimately if we want the most out of Pato, then he needs to play with someone way more technical like Suarez, Ronaldinho or best of all Fabiano.

Edit: And Pirlofanusa, I definetly agree, Cassano would be a player that could make this Milan team tick, last season he was in my opinion the best player in serie a, and this season he's definetly a contender so far, but it's hard to say if he'd be able to work in the Milan dressing room. Which by the way seems completly out of order at the moment, something that I've never seen before at Milan. It's definetly because of Maldini's retirement though, more than Leonardo's lack of experience in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Christian

Edit: And Pirlofanusa, I definetly agree, Cassano would be a player that could make this Milan team tick, last season he was in my opinion the best player in serie a, and this season he's definetly a contender so far, but it's hard to say if he'd be able to work in the Milan dressing room. Which by the way seems completly out of order at the moment, something that I've never seen before at Milan. It's definetly because of Maldini's retirement though, more than Leonardo's lack of experience in my opinion.

the thing is for 20 mil, i think it is hands down a great buy. Kaka is not 3x better than him, they are on a very similar level. He has kept his mouth shut for the most part since returning to Italy. Maybe he has finally grown up

Originally Posted by pirlofanusa

the thing is for 20 mil, i think it is hands down a great buy. Kaka is not 3x better than him, they are on a very similar level. He has kept his mouth shut for the most part since returning to Italy. Maybe he has finally grown up

Yup for 20mil it's a good buy, in my opinion he's almost up there with Kaká, Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. But as I said, it's hard to say, because it seems to me like a lot of clubs have been scared away by the fact that he has a history of being unstable. Juventus and Inter both bought Trequartista's, which is something Cassano can play, but they chose foreign players instead, and in the case of Diego he was even more expensive.

No, I'd never go for Cassano. This guy does not have the right professionalism and temperament to play for a big team. He will let us down when we need him most, he will cry and moan if he needs to sit on the bench, and he will get unnecessary red cards.

This sort of player is great for a mid-table team like Sampdoria (not that we're any better this year) where the whole team is built around him and he steals the show. If he needs to play as a team player in a big team, he will have problems.

If we succeed in converting R80 to a second striker as many are suggesting, I am really really really regretting not having got Gourcuff back, because Seedorf alone can not cover the trequartista role.....maybe we should be looking around for a good playmaker this winter....VDV anyone?

Originally Posted by rt9

No, I'd never go for Cassano. This guy does not have the right professionalism and temperament to play for a big team. He will let us down when we need him most, he will cry and moan if he needs to sit on the bench, and he will get unnecessary red cards.

This sort of player is great for a mid-table team like Sampdoria (not that we're any better this year) where the whole team is built around him and he steals the show. If he needs to play as a team player in a big team, he will have problems.

If we succeed in converting R80 to a second striker as many are suggesting, I am really really really regretting not having got Gourcuff back, because Seedorf alone can not cover the trequartista role.....maybe we should be looking around for a good playmaker this winter....VDV anyone?

Cassano improve a lot his temper. I go for him withou a doubt.

Originally Posted by rt9

No, I'd never go for Cassano. This guy does not have the right professionalism and temperament to play for a big team. He will let us down when we need him most, he will cry and moan if he needs to sit on the bench, and he will get unnecessary red cards.

This sort of player is great for a mid-table team like Sampdoria (not that we're any better this year) where the whole team is built around him and he steals the show. If he needs to play as a team player in a big team, he will have problems.

If we succeed in converting R80 to a second striker as many are suggesting, I am really really really regretting not having got Gourcuff back, because Seedorf alone can not cover the trequartista role.....maybe we should be looking around for a good playmaker this winter....VDV anyone?

you basically just described Gattuso. Cassano has matured a lot the last few years. He is one of, if not the most, talented player in Italy. We need a creative force that can run and score, and Cassano is exactly that. Its 20 mil euro. for a player of his talent level that is not too much. This team needs a spark. Pato needs some help, or he will leave first chance he gets.

The R80 thing wont work in the long run, he really cant keep himself interested for more than a few games at a time. We should sell him for as much as he is worth as soon as possible, and then use the money to improve the team

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I'm going to go as far as to blame Pato. That kid is great, amazing, talented. But, I've said it once, I'll say it a million times, he is not a second striker. I honestly don't see what difference it makes from him playing second striker or as a primo punta. He gets hacked and pushed no matter what, in fact, he gets pushed down more when he's farther away from the opposition's box.

I am guessing this is referring towards the discussion we have here about Pato. And I don't think some people understand what I really wanted to say by starting this whole Pato thing.

To clear it up even further......I am not blaming Pato what so ever for anything. I don't want him out of the team, I don't want him on the bench....etc. As a matter of fact I still think he is our best forward and I think he will get out of this slump soon and be who he really is - one of the best 20yr old players (if not the best) in the world. As a matter of fact I hope he starts against Bari and scores a hat-trick so I can come here and say - "Thank you Pato for getting back to who you really are and doing the things you should be doing".

The only reason I started the whole discussion was because IMO I don't think it's the team's fault (everyone else on the field) for his recent slump......even though they absolutely have contributed. And all I'm saying is that there is a big part of his slump of form that needs to go on his shoulders rather then just basicaly saying - "Pato is TOO good for his teammates and they bring him down, so that's why he's been in bad form".

Nefremo, don't worry, I'm not trying to put you in an uncomfortable position.

What I am saying is that Pato insistence on playing as a second striker is one of the major issues in this Milan side. If we played like we did against Siena (in the attacking third, at least) then we would have had no trouble with Livorno or Udinese.

Against Siena, Pato played like a striker. No second striker, a straight-up striker. He bagged a brace, he should have had a hat-trick. But he was not taking the ball at midfield, or 35-40 yards out and trying to dribble. I'm not saying he should be like Pippo and be in the shadow of the last defender. He should stop trying to take the ball from Seedorf or whoever, and trying to beat four players.

Christian brings up a fantastic point, the Pippo-Pato partnership doesn't work. The more I think about it, it was Pato's dip in form that coincided with Pippo's sudden burst of form last year.

I don't want Pato to benched, I actually want him to start, but as a striker, playing in front of Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho's lack of a work rate is more evident when he is played as a trequartista, but, as a second striker, his lack of work rate would be normal.

It seems that the solution is there, again, it depends on Ronaldinho deciding he wants to play. Apparently he does. Against Udinese, it was quite obvious he does, and I think if he can maintain that, and build upon it, we could salvage our season.

Dinho's transformation into a second-striker would be similar to Francesco Totti's transformation in to a striker, as it would allow him to take the best of him to the benefit of the team.

With regards to the idea of Cassano coming to Milan, I'll tell you several reasons why that will never happen. He was and arguably still is a bit of a head case. He is an Inter fan. He has said he wants to end his career at Sampdoria.

However, those can be overlooked, for now. The real reason why Cassano will not be used is that his work rate is simply not high enough to play for a top team. This is not even just my words, Mourinho has mentioned this in specifics. Yes, we have Ronaldinho, but there is a reason why he was dropped from selection.

That is one of the major reasons for Cassano's exclusion from top teams, and such a thing could be overlooked, or maybe worked with, if he did not have a history of bust-ups and downright odd tantrums. An amazing player, no doubt, but not without his issues.

I think Milan needs to buy Italian, that is one thing that we've not done, is buy players who all ready used to Serie A. Huntelaar, Thiago Silva, Ronaldinho, Flamini, all great buys (yes, even Dinho) but, I honestly think we need to look in Serie A. I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to splash the cash on Giovinco, Crisicito, D'Agostino, Santacroce, and Marchetti? I'm sure it would be cheaper than buying Dzeko, Cissoko, Hernanes, Alex, and Hugo Lloris?

Man, if I was Galliani, that's who I'd buy, that way we'd line up like:

--------Marchetti
Santa--Nesta--Silva--Crisicto
-Abate--D'Agostino--Flamini
---------Giovinco
--Huntelaar------Pato

That would be my dream AC Milan team for next year.

On a side note: Do you ever wonder what players Galliani would buy if he was given the sort of chequebook of say, Chelsea, Juve, Inter, or Real? I always wonder what players he would have, because he obviously cares about this team, you can see it in how nervous he is on the sidelines and how much he cheers for Milan. I just feel bad because it's obvious that he wanted Cissoko and Berlu didn't let him.

Anyways, that's my (usual) long-winded post.