Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by Milano84

maradonna was ANYTHING but tiny. He was built like diego from juve. ridiculously strong core, hard to knock over, great balance.

giovinco has shown flashes but hardly a daily player.

those players are physically weak

he is still only 165 cm tall. that is 5 cm than the other little player you referred to

Originally Posted by Milano84

brasiliero, what are your thoughts on paulo henrique? We've been linked to him again (apparently our scouts will be watching sao paolo v. santos, which could mean a number of players but he's one who is getting press)

Milano, you know that I don´t like comparisons, but lets take what people in Santos like to say: "Paulo Henrique is the new Rivaldo". Although imo it´s a little exaggerated, I think a "young poor man Rivaldo " label would be fair enough...

They really have some points in common... amazing left foot, skils, pace and even the body. But I think Paulo still need to develope a killer instinct. Rivaldo had that, and that make him special.

It´s not fair for me to judge P. Henrique for his disappointing Under-20 WC performance, since it was the first time he played in a Brazil NT, and several good people underperform in debuts with Brazil NT. But for the little that I saw of him there and in Santos, led me to think a jump to Serie A right now would not be a good decision. He relies in holding the ball a little too much(like Diego in Santos and in Porto), and despite to be skiled, will not outrun defenders and DM´s in Europe with his above-average pace.

If I was his manager, I would send him to Spain, or for a middle league in Europe, to easy him with European style(and pace) of game. He could proves me wrong in the future, but I jump to Italy(from Brazil) imo would be a HUGE mistake...

I know he's been criticizes for not being as 'skilled' as say douglas costa/ texiera etc. That being said I am always fearful of these little guys (170cm) and below in Italy. Also I recall kaka getting similar criticism. Strength/intelligence/desire goes a long way (see Diego).

People that said he isn´t skilled clearly never watched P. Henrique to play. The guy is very, very, very skilled. He´s tall and thin(thats why people call him Ganso = Goose), but in terms of skills, he is ahead of Kaka at the same age. As I said above, his style of game is what will cause some problems for him in Europe. But with his talent, once P. Henrique to acclimatize himself with European game(pace), I have no doubt he will be good. Just not think it will be in Serie A...

How is paulo henrique in comparison to guiliano (they seem like similar players)

Thats is a good question, and will make it more clear.

Both do better as AMD, but different of Giuliano, Paulo Henrique has less room to be more effective in another role than a pure Brazilian AMD, and few coaches uses it in Europe. I think he can be good also as false left or right winger(without defensive duties) in a 4-3-3, but thats it.

Giuliano on the other hand, is so matured for his age... both, technical and tactically. Just saw an article in a reliable Brazilian site saying that even with the defeat to Ghana in the final, Giuliano not only earn the respect of Brazil under-20 NT coaches, but also of Dunga and Jorginho at first team.

The article said that in the reports from the coaches sent to CBF(Brazlian Footbal Confederation), they were unanimous in detaching his positive leadership(as captain) and whiligness(sp?) to sacrifice himself for the team, as in the 4-2-3-1 that Brazil played, he was the only one of the 3 AMD that did the dirty job. Yep, the one that was always comming back to help the defense, even harming his performance in some games. As in the final, when Brazil NT coach put him as DM to insert another forward at the game. Huge tactical mistake imo, but thats another discussion...

Back to your question, and it´s just my opinion, besides the position(and skills), they are different type of players. The more I see Giuliano, the more I think he will be the closest thing to Kaka that we ever produced. As you wrote, Strength/intelligence/desire goes a long way , and I can see the same drive in Giuliano...

With a plus, he´s much more skilled and is better passer than Kaka was at 19 yo. Not saying he could have the same impact as Kaká in Serie A(no one can said that), but to be straight, and to make a bold statment, in term of skills and pass, imo he´s already better than the actual Kaka also. One more time( for the most distracted), I´m not saying he´s a better player than Kaká now, just imo has better skils and pass.

Btw, just to you know, his new coach at Internacional(the old one was fired when Giuliano was at Under-20 WC), a big fan of catenaccio(sp?) is thinking of to use him as a right winger in a 3-5-2 in one of(if not) the biggest Derby in Brazil(Grêmio X Internacional) this Sunday... A CRIME imo, but the boy already said that will do what the coaches ask. All this to not hurt D´alesssandro feelings. But theres also a chance he benches D´lessandro to play Giuliano as AMD. I will try to watch this game and let you know my impressions.

Wow, sorry for the big post... Thats it, I also read the rumour of Paulo Henrique here, but I hope it´s just a smoke screen. The guy for us here is Giuliano, period.

Brassileiro, how was your 'secret meeting' with Braida couple of weeks ago ? Did you guys talk about Hernanes ? haha

Just joking... did you hear any reliable news on possible transfer target while Braida was there or maybe after he left ?

Come on .. update us here..

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Milano....

world class brasiliero post

didn't wanna quote whole thing cause of length but it was very informative. as always i find interest in your posts....

It really surprises me I haven't heard more about guiliano to europe. From all things i've seen he is the revelation of the season (true/false?).

Like you said he's closest thing to kaka, but for me kaka turned into a support striker. Watching him play midfield, i dunno he just doesn't fit. He's best playing off central striker. the 4-3-2-1 suited him and even when i see brazil play they more or les play a 4-3-2-1 under dunga w/ him and robinho supporting fabiano (I know elano or ramires is written as RW in a 4-2-3-1 but they tend to play alot deeper in midfielder).

from what i say guiliano plays ALOT deeper and is willing to get involves in defense. Perhaps he could even play CM or a seedorf type role? I realize hes' really young and its too hard to tell, but he seems different from other brazil AMs

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

With a plus, he´s much more skilled and is better passer than Kaka was at 19 yo. Not saying he could have the same impact as Kaká in Serie A(no one can said that), but to be straight, and to make a bold statment, in term of skills and pass, imo he´s already better than the actual Kaka also. One more time( for the most distracted), I´m not saying he´s a better player than Kaká now, just imo has better skils and pass.

btw for the kaka impact point... it should be pointed he walked into a situation literally ANY half skilled person would be successful. Off UCL victory....whole midfield and attack in prime: pirlo , 24 , seedorf 27, gattuso 25, sheva 27, pippo 30. Not to mention rui costa

Well, he did scored quite a few game winning goals that year by dribbling pass midfielders and scoring outside of the box.

Originally Posted by edysupriadi

Brassileiro, how was your 'secret meeting' with Braida couple of weeks ago ? Did you guys talk about Hernanes ? haha

Just joking... did you hear any reliable news on possible transfer target while Braida was there or maybe after he left ?

Come on .. update us here..

I´m still waiting for him, edysupriadi... to not let the guy to be deceptive by the new "Robinho", "Kaká" or "Diego" hype... But I think he lost my number

Now, seriously, there´s nothing reliable at the moment about us and any player here. I just can´t believe in that Juan Maldonaldo or Adriano rumours. The first can´t be a Milan LB, and the last is still the same, skiping some training session(in Flamengo he´s the boss), and I can´t see it working at Milanello.

I hope we are working behind the scenes here, and the names I saw on media(besides Jucilei and Diogo) are just smokes screen.

Originally Posted by Milano84

btw for the kaka impact point... it should be pointed he walked into a situation literally ANY half skilled person would be successful. Off UCL victory....whole midfield and attack in prime: pirlo , 24 , seedorf 27, gattuso 25, sheva 27, pippo 30. Not to mention rui costa

Good point... but playing the devil´s advocate, this half skilled person would not have the same type of impact. Sure our mgt gives a lot of stability to the club(and thats help our players), but only a talent like him would have benched Rui and Rivaldo in so little time.

the more i watch Borri play, the more I would like to see him played behind Pato and Huntelaar. One of the biggest problems with out attack has been a lack of transition between the midfield and the strikers. A lot of this has occurred due to lack of pace, and Dinho trying to do a trick and getting the ball taken away from him. Borri can run, holds onto the ball very well, is good distributing the ball, and he has a very high work rate. He is not a classic trequista by any means, but i think he could help our attack very much by being played in this role.

Originally Posted by Milano84

didn't wanna quote whole thing cause of length but it was very informative. as always i find interest in your posts....

It really surprises me I haven't heard more about guiliano to europe. From all things i've seen he is the revelation of the season (true/false?).

Thanks, Milano...
You know, I thought about writing on this in the post about Paulo Henrique, but it was already too big and I let it go.

Giuliano is Brazilian, and thats a bless and a burden for him. He comes from "Futebol the Salão"(indoor football), so he has amazing drible skills. But his style of to play is different from others Brazilian players. He likes to play it simple... sometimes you see a jaw dropping play, but only if it will be to serve for something concrete.

This make me remember about a little history: In that Under-20 WC that Pato played in Canada, there was a player called Leandro Lima(second-striker or winger) in Brazil NT starting line up. Before that tournament I was hyping Pato here and for some friends in Europe. After the tournament(Spain defeated Brazil and Pato had just 1 great game) several people here and all of this friends of mine started to say that I hyped the wrong guy. That Leandro Lima showed amazing skills(and tricks), scored goals also, and with Jô, were the best Brazilians offensive players.

Needless to say were is Pato now, and were are Jô and Leandro Lima. Thats my point, when the subject is Brazilian players, people get easily deceived by some tricks our jaw dropping plays. And not only in Europe, often here in Brazil, I and some friend have some warm debates about new players potential and I am always alone in my arguments.

Imo he´s the revelation of the season, and I really find it strange that there are no rumours about him and any big club in Europe. To be fair, before the final in the live broadcast of the game, a Brazilian journalist said that there was several scouts and agents trying to approach the players at Hotel during all the tournament, but it was imminently forbidden... and that Giuliano and Alex Teixeira were the most requested.

Maybe is becuase Inter is also a hard seller, but if not, something is wrong with the scouts around the world.

Like you said he's closest thing to kaka, but for me kaka turned into a support striker. Watching him play midfield, i dunno he just doesn't fit. He's best playing off central striker. the 4-3-2-1 suited him and even when i see brazil play they more or les play a 4-3-2-1 under dunga w/ him and robinho supporting fabiano (I know elano or ramires is written as RW in a 4-2-3-1 but they tend to play alot deeper in midfielder).

Yep, as you said, Elano and Ramires beside to be written as RW, play much more deep. They do the Gattuso role...

Imo Kaká is still better as a AMD. The problem is that he is a North-South player... so, or you play him behind 2 strikers, or as a support striker. With his style(N/S), he doesn´t fit what Pelegrini is doing right now in Real Madrid... he isn´t a #10 armador.

from what i say guiliano plays ALOT deeper and is willing to get involves in defense. Perhaps he could even play CM or a seedorf type role? I realize hes' really young and its too hard to tell, but he seems different from other brazil AMs

You right, Giuliano plays a lot deeper, and he is different of the others Brazil Am´s! And thats imo what make this boy even more special. I have no doubt he can play as CM or Seedorf role, but imo he will be at best as AMD.

In AMD position his potential is 10/10. As CM is 8/10 and in Seedorf role I see a 9/10. Of course it isn´t a fact, just my opinion about him, but to take him out of a AMD position is to shoot your own foot. Also, his work rate is natural, so even if you put him free behind 2 strikers, he will come back to help the defense.

It´s like what happened to Anderson at M. United... A amazind AMD turned into a good or above average CM. I really don´t want to see it happens again with a brazilian talent...

So did Galliani and Berlusconi decide yet that we have a team of champions and there's no need to invest in January? I'm waiting for them to say something like that sooner or later...

btw I was pretty impressed with Drenthe in yesterday's game..I thought he was the only reason Real were causing a threat in the second half. He should be considered as an option come January. His defence does worry my though but he's absolutely fantastic up front, he could replace R80 in our formation too.

What are our other options for January? the realistic ones? From what I've collected it seems to be Beckham leading the way, and then rumours about Rafinha come in second place... and then some wishful thinking with Hernanes and Dzeko...and we did hear a pretty solid rumour that we've signed Krasic but that seems to have been ruled out. Any others??

Berlusconi wouldn't invest anyway he would just sack Leonardo and blame all of Milan problems on him, we spent the entire of the pre season getting battered if Berlusconi refused to invest in that scenario and insisted we have a team of champions every time we lost. Look at it from this perspective if Leonardo Milan does well for the reminder of the 09 year than it might encourage Berlusconi to invest in the team.

A realistic transfer window would firstly consist of beckham coming to Milan than purchase of a Brazilian side back would be the next realistic transfer option i would than suggest a couple of loan signings with the likes of gibbs vdv giovinco bale all missing out on first team football, if Berlusconi is generous Milan might have cash left over for the likes of Krasic Candreva and Sanchez.

We should definitely go after Di Maria

in addition to Becks, i want to pick up Motta from Roma (he is supposed to be avalible for 7 mil) would help us a lot this winter. And i would try to sell Dinho and put Borri at supporting striker

Originally Posted by pirlofanusa

in addition to Becks, i want to pick up Motta from Roma (he is supposed to be avalible for 7 mil) would help us a lot this winter. And i would try to sell Dinho and put Borri at supporting striker

I dont know about Motta, he is talanted and young but very injury prone. I would not go after him.

Originally Posted by Bosniaco

I dont know about Motta, he is talanted and young but very injury prone. I would not go after him.

how very injury prone?