Napoli-Milan 28/10/09

Originally Posted by nefremo

...As for the game itself, we simply stopped playing after the 5th minute. We thought we had won the game. We were too stagnant and lost way too many balls. Our midfielders were happy to give the ball to the CBs and not show up for it again resulting in us losing possession all the time in the first half. The second was different as we knew that they were going to press us on all parts of the field.

Just like the case during Carlo's time, when we normally were leading 1-0 and its just 15min to go, he got the tendency to take off one of strikers (or any other attacking players) and replace w/ a defender (or another defensive player) .. in the end we conceded a goal..

moral of the story, we should just attack & attack

Originally Posted by pirlofanusa

now we have three quality keepers...

Are you kidding around? Sorry, but one or two games does not make anything up. We have two decent keepers.

Dida should be far away from this team. He is an absolute calamity waiting to happen. A few good games followed by an inability to pick up a ball slowly moving towards him. That is not a pattern of a good goalkeeper.

I loved Leo's response when asked about Dida after the Real Madrid game. "It's my fault--I told him to start the play as soon as he got the ball." That shows how much of a charity case Dida is. I tried supporting this moron, but it's a vain cause.

As for the game, we blew it. Plain and simple. Shades of Istanbul. Leo is wet behind the ears, but professional footballers should be able to hold a two goal lead. Italian teams are supposed to be doing that in their sleep. These games are the sort of games that establish a resurgence or a charge towards big things. Clearly, we are headed nowhere except maybe fourth place.

Totally useless result in my opinion in terms of morale. It would have been completely different had we been losing 2-0, and then tied the game. But to squander a two goal lead in a matter of minutes is incompetent in the extreme.

Originally Posted by Revolver

@ LebRN

Yes I've watched Abate against Bayern, so what's the point?! Did u saw something I didn't? All he has shown in that game was will and pace, nothing more.

And that's all about what he is: will and pace, good cross on the occasion. His passing is below average, last night he misplaced a simple long passes to the player 20 meters in front of him, his team work is HORRIBLE, every time we could concede after bad offside-trap it was him or Kaladze, Pato was waiting for his support every ****in time and he didn't got it even once, and I don't even need to talk about his timing.

He's a decently talented player who can play at some less important position like full back, he almost has all what it takes for it, will, pace, can cross, pretty good in defense, all he needs is to improve his timing and team work which comes with experience. But to be a midfielder in Milan, please, u cannot be serious.

i guess i did see something u didn't in that match: i remember we were horrible as a team and he was the only player who gave me a bit of hope. he was given more freedom to attack left and right and i thought he did very well in that match and it was not just pace and will but some pretty good skills too.
i agree with u that his teamwork was pretty bad as i could remember a couple of times when the ball was lost on the attack and it took him forever to get back (reminded me of Jankulovski).
but i cannot believe u r saying that fullback is a "less important position"!!!!!!! modern football is all about fullbacks dude!!! they have a huge role on defense and attack which means they have to be good in both and for me Abate is not a defender... it's true he showed some decent defending skills against napoli especially having to handle players like quagliarella or lavezzi (mainly because of his pace) but i think he has a lot more chances to make it as a winger than he does as a fullback.
he has mainly played as a fullback till now and u r judging his offensive skills while in that role. i think he should be given the opportunity to play some matches in an attacking role and then we could judge. and given how short we are offensively on players who can play in wide attacking positions (only Pato & Dinho) i think he's the best alternative we have for that role.

there has been a tendancy to play decent wingers as fullbacks (marcelo, drenthe, or even our own jankulovski, or zambrotta (who i think would have made an excellent winger) or serginho...but i appreciate people like Wenger & Prandelli who could see that a player can offer much more to his team if he is pushed up the field rather than down (Lauren & Vargas)...

unfortunately, i have a feeling that he will not be given that chance so i hope he proves me wrong and turns out to be a solid fullback

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Are you kidding around? Sorry, but one or two games does not make anything up. We have two decent keepers.

Dida should be far away from this team. He is an absolute calamity waiting to happen. A few good games followed by an inability to pick up a ball slowly moving towards him. That is not a pattern of a good goalkeeper.

I loved Leo's response when asked about Dida after the Real Madrid game. "It's my fault--I told him to start the play as soon as he got the ball." That shows how much of a charity case Dida is. I tried supporting this moron, but it's a vain cause.

As for the game, we blew it. Plain and simple. Shades of Istanbul. Leo is wet behind the ears, but professional footballers should be able to hold a two goal lead. Italian teams are supposed to be doing that in their sleep. These games are the sort of games that establish a resurgence or a charge towards big things. Clearly, we are headed nowhere except maybe fourth place.

Totally useless result in my opinion in terms of morale. It would have been completely different had we been losing 2-0, and then tied the game. But to squander a two goal lead in a matter of minutes is incompetent in the extreme.

I am hoping that since Dida put a few good games in that there will be a buyer out there for him in January

Last night's result naturally leaves a sour taste in the mouth, as for most it's hard to accept a draw when you were comfortably in lead most of the match. However, this highlighted a recent problem for us. Despite Nesta and Thiago doing well, and Dida making some great saves, we're conceding too much. We need to tighten up when managing games and maintain concentration through the 90 minutes. Right now we're prone to losing concentration at the back and it's those times we suffer.

The first half was a great performance. We started perfectly and really couldn't ever start better. Inzaghi's goal was great as was Pato's and Napoli were shell shocked. Through the rest of the half we controlled Napoli, despite giving away the ball cheaply on numerous occasions, and avoided them creating concrete chances. At half time, 2-0 was completely deserved.

The second half was quite a mixed bag. Dida had episodes where he pulled miracle saves, but until around the 75-80th minute we were still in control and could have killed the tie. However, instead we seemed to become tired physically and mentally and suffered in episodes where the team lost concentration, especially after Abate going off. It's easy to blame individuals (e.g. Pirlo around the time Abate got sent off) for being slack, but really the team had too many episodes like this. Napoli deserved the goals and the result was fair at the end. However, it was of our own making too.

Players...

Dida - Spectacular, his shot stopping and catching on crosses was impeccable.
Abate - Didn't deserve red card. His first yellow was no way a yellow. Sloppy on the ball in the first half but looked good in the second until the second card.
Nesta - NA
Thiago - Great at the back at times, but at others clearly losing concentration which could have cost us (and argubly did on the second Napoli goal).
Zambro - Some rash challenges which he must start curbing. Not bad but was caught out on occasions.
Pirlo - I thought he did pretty well on the whole. Important in covering the defence and passing was good until the end where he made one very slack pass.
Ambro - Good game, solid and covered well in front of the defence
Seedorf - Excellent in attack when involved and held the ball well. He would be great if he chased back more often.
Dinho - Another game where he seemed to be lacking much spark. Didn't really add anything to the side and for me is still yet to convince as one of the key players of the team.
Pato - Great game when involved. Obviously we defended a lot and he wasn't always involved, but a menace when he was.
Pippo - Great goal and a threat.
Kaladze - Did reasonably after coming on for Nesta, especially after being out for long.
Borriello - NA
Flamini - Covered where he had to on the right, was vital when Abate was sent off

Our problems now are we're suffering episodes where we lose concentration. This musn't happen as it will cost us like it did yesterday. That said, we've improved a lot in the last 1 and a half weeks and we need to try and keep building. Prior to yesterday's match most would have taken a draw without a problem, but given our improvement and our dominance early yesterday, it's disappointing to just end with a draw. We need to take conviction from the result though, in that we're starting to consolidate ourselves as one of the top teams in Serie A and we can't look back in despair.

after thinking about the match a day after, I wish that Leo had subbed Antonini in for Inzaghi instead of Borriello. then we could have moved to a 4-2-3-1 with Antonini at RB, Flamini and Ambro as the D mids, and Seedorf Pirlo and Abate supporting Pato. then again everything is easier to see in hindsight.

even with ten men they should be able to hold a 2 goal lead for 10 minutes

Experience is the key... this is a learning period for Leo... his inexperience is at fault but so is the experience of Pirlo, Seedorf and Ambro...we had many chances to hit napoli on the counter but we chose to walk out the ball and allow napoli to get back... it would also be better to play with brick wall on the left instead of ronaldinho... it is with him that most of our play slows down and get disrupted... Napoli played well and deserve the draw...

Originally Posted by LebRN

but i cannot believe u r saying that fullback is a "less important position"!!!!!!! modern football is all about fullbacks dude!!! they have a huge role on defense and attack which means they have to be good in both and for me Abate is not a defender... it's true he showed some decent defending skills against napoli especially having to handle players like quagliarella or lavezzi (mainly because of his pace) but i think he has a lot more chances to make it as a winger than he does as a fullback.

He showed a WILL against Bayern when nobody showed nothing, but that doesn't make him a good midfielder.

About quoted, don't get me wrong, but a full back is a least important position in the team. If any team should have a weak spots, that should be on side back positions. Look at Barcelona conquering Europe with Abidal as a left back. During the time we were the best team in the world (2002-2007), the only good side back we had was Cafu and he was too old.

For the latter part, you have to understand that we don't play with 2 wingers, but with 2 supporting strikers! To play in that position, Abate needs to score, create and run to open space. With his passing he can't create nothing, except with crosses, he cannot score (51 games in last 2 season, just 3 goals; 134 games total, 6 goals), all he can do is run to open space and we could use him in that place in some less important games. As far as I'm concerned, Borriello is better in that place when Pato or Ronaldinho need rest.

Originally Posted by Revolver

He showed a WILL against Bayern when nobody showed nothing, but that doesn't make him a good midfielder.

About quoted, don't get me wrong, but a full back is a least important position in the team. If any team should have a weak spots, that should be on side back positions. Look at Barcelona conquering Europe with Abidal as a left back. During the time we were the best team in the world (2002-2007), the only good side back we had was Cafu and he was too old.

For the latter part, you have to understand that we don't play with 2 wingers, but with 2 supporting strikers! To play in that position, Abate needs to score, create and run to open space. With his passing he can't create nothing, except with crosses, he cannot score (51 games in last 2 season, just 3 goals; 134 games total, 6 goals), all he can do is run to open space and we could use him in that place in some less important games. As far as I'm concerned, Borriello is better in that place when Pato or Ronaldinho need rest.

Barca also has Dani Alves, who is great. It would seem that keeper is least important. Barca doesnt have a great one, we didnt when we were winning, Juve doesnt win all the time despite Buffon, etc. i also think it has to do with the team though

Looking back at that horrible match of yesterday i think it isnt that bad,i was saying before the match that getting a point in Naples isnt dramatic,Inter always get zero points there and also Juve struggle.

If only we were playing 0-0,because the fact that Napoli scored twice in injurytime is just really painful.

Nevertheles,we are playing again on saturday against Parma(who leapfroged us in Serie A table),so if we win that match it will be ok again.

Just hope that Palermo can do a miracle vs Inter tonight,even if that means that they will leapfrog us,i dont want Inter to go 9 points ahead of us,that would be dramatic....FORZA PALERMO!

Cheer up guys,if we win from Parma it will look a lot better again.

Well the good thing is that the first 8 minutes were amazing, great football there and we were rewarded with 2 goals, it's a shame that the rest of the match wasn't so great.

When you think about it, it's actually not so strange that the match ended the way it did. There's one thing holding this team back, and it showed in the later stages of the match, and that is fatigue. Some players like Seedorf (Who was excellent in attack) didn't track back, and it's really not so strange since he's played so many matches lately plus the fact that he's 33. It's obvious that alot of our older players are playing way more than they should, simply cause there's no alternatives. How can we expect 30+ year old players to keep up a high pressure game for 90 minutes, and then do it again and again and again? Fact is that we can't, and that is why we had to play most of the match like a relegation side ie by defending.

Also, Abate's first yellow card was harsh, and so was Pirlo's, but I guess we've had our fair share of luck with the refs lately anyways, so I guess that's fair.

My thought about our recent games: the team ran more, better to create scoring opportunities. The biggest problem I have with the 4-3-3 style is forwards don't track back enough to help defense. With a midfield of three players Pirlo, Seedorf and one more, defense is under more pressure because of lacking support. We were lucky at times not to concede any goals when they were more opponents in our half than our own players. I think this is the hindsight of the attacking line-up. I really hoped that Leo learnt from this game and make the proper substitution to protect a 2-0 lead.

Other than that, I think the team is on the right track at the moment.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Are you kidding around? Sorry, but one or two games does not make anything up. We have two decent keepers.

We have two decent keepers, yes, but one of them has spent over eight months on the sidelines after major knee surgery. Who's to say that he'll get back to where he was before? We have four thirtysomethings on the roster and are in dire need of new blood.

Dida should be far away from this team. He is an absolute calamity waiting to happen. A few good games followed by an inability to pick up a ball slowly moving towards him. That is not a pattern of a good goalkeeper. I tried supporting this moron, but it's a vain cause.

The Madrid error was egregious and I'm not taking away from that, but in the end it was Casillas who ultimately cost his team the match with two booboos of his own. Anyway, aside from that, Dida has been solid for far more than a few games, and has been virtually mistake-free since subbing in for Abi last season to the UEFA Cup to now. Madrid represented his first major screwup since the '07 Christmas derby, so it's been awhile.

Not trying to convert you back; just offering my perspective.

Originally Posted by Blacktop

We have two decent keepers, yes, but one of them has spent over eight months on the sidelines after major knee surgery. Who's to say that he'll get back to where he was before? We have four thirtysomethings on the roster and are in dire need of new blood.



The Madrid error was egregious and I'm not taking away from that, but in the end it was Casillas who ultimately cost his team the match with two booboos of his own. Anyway, aside from that, Dida has been solid for far more than a few games, and has been virtually mistake-free since subbing in for Abi last season to the UEFA Cup to now. Madrid represented his first major screwup since the '07 Christmas derby, so it's been awhile.

Not trying to convert you back; just offering my perspective.

I don't really think it makes Dida's performance any better that Casillas was even worse. Still though, I don't think the last few games show anything new about Dida, he's pretty much the same as always. We all know that on his day few others can make the saves that he does, he showed that against Napoli and Chievo, we also know that ones in a while he just loses concentration completly. My guess is that if he'd be our keeper for the rest of the season then he'd make a ton of amazing saves, but something similar to Madrid would probably happen again. Don't forget that in Madrid he actually lost concentration twice, second time he was just lucky that Raul was offside.

Still I don't think there's any doubts that Storari should be number one choice when he's back. He was flawless when he's played so far, and at times amazing.

maybe Dida's good form can be used to sell him in January. And if Abbati can get a few solid games in I would try to offer him and a few million for Marchetti