Banter 2009/2010

Hey, sorry to change the subject, as you probably know that I am pretty undecided on this debate.

Looks like Dida and Favalli could leave the playing group very soon. Dida most likely back to Brazil with a healthy transfer fee, whilst Favalli may join the coaching staff...

Originally Posted by Saliwonczyk

Hey, sorry to change the subject, as you probably know that I am pretty undecided on this debate.

Looks like Dida and Favalli could leave the playing group very soon. Dida most likely back to Brazil with a healthy transfer fee, whilst Favalli may join the coaching staff...

Probably a good thing for the club. Dida leaving may seem a problem, but by the time he looks ready to leave (if he leaves in January), we should have a healthy list of keepers, with Abbiati back and Storari and Roma as backup.

As with Favalli, he seems to me a defender who is fairly intelligent. He's got a lot of experience at the top level and can play in various positions. His positioning is also good and tactically he's usually well disciplined. He may not be the greatest defender, but I think he can teach a few things. Let's not forget that Maldini also said Thiago needs a player like Favalli (who Maldini named personally) alongside him to teach him. That's quite a compliment for Favalli if you ask me.

Originally Posted by mrki

Geo you dissapointed me my friend...

Come on, be real. People in Milano that follow Milan for past 10-20 years every week in San Siro or away know what is happening with the club. So they should now buy tickets and shirts so our mercato can be 10mln and not 5mln outcome? Mercato is not about season tickets and shirts, it never was. Its about the inside money.

If Berlusconi has decided that investment for this year will be NOTHING ( actually it is -40mln ), ( my theory is that Hunter came for free so its -65 ) then he can take this low tickets sales as he needs to and deserves!

Fans are fans, they DO NOT sponsor clubs mercato. Fly Emirates, Fininvest, Adidas, TV etc. to that.

Curva Sud is right and all of the San Siro. People cannot be bought by string of 6,7 good games. Silvio and Galliani did a PATHETIC job with Milan is last 3,4 summers! In the end, KAka' sale was the last stroke.

Boycoting San Siro is the right answer from fans. Milan fans are not the fans that follow only results, but sometimes enough is enough.

Galliani can go to hell and write those pathetic attempts to someone else! Buy 4, 5 players in the summer and you'll have your crowd.

Forza grande Milan!

Money in clubs comes from:
- partnerships
- TV deals (I think the most important)
- ticket sales
- all other things linked to merchandising
- sale of players
- qualification in CL or EL

Your budget for mercato comes from these processes and nothing else as clubs have no other way to have money (if I forgot a way, excuse me in advance, anyway, it's probably not an important way to earn money).

But you also know that everything is linked: no qualification in CL for two years could lead to the end of some partnerships, bad results will lead to a decrease of the TV deals depending on your country (because it's not exactly the same way to share money from TV in France and in Italy for example).

So, just imagine that Leonardo didn't manage to build something with our players last month ?!

That would have meant:
- bad results
- empty stadium

A season like that (which obviously won't happen thanks to Leo and of course the players involved) can lead a club to have bad deals with TV (and less games showed around the world so less ... umh, I have the word in French, not in English ... your club has less visibility) and end with less partners. Less money earned means less money spent. Your budgets all have to be decreased.

That's it, that's economical. No point to discuss there I think.
So what I say is that boycotting the club because they didn't spend all the money earned thanks to (or because of ) the sale of Kaka could just lead to exactly the contrary of what want these people who boycott.

GeoTav, I agree with mrki on this one.

In a way, yes ticket sales do add up to the profit they make but you must know that the ticket sales is by far the least of the incomes, and it also is shared by the city council as the stadium isn't owned by Milan. The fans boycotting the stadium is the right thing to do, and as you can see it has already forced the hand of Galliani to make one unnecessary signing in Adiyiah (however he's young, fast, recently earned a golden shoe and a gold medal in the world cup, and Galliani reminds us of that every day, Galliani in a way is just trying to make him look better so the fans start getting excited again and come to the stadium).

Right now the management are desperate to win the fans back, because the Milan fans are one of the most faithful and loyal fans in Europe. They always were there for the team however the problem now is that the managements seems to have abandoned the team for a few years now and the only way the fans can take action is by doing this.

I think they are doing a brilliant job. I'd love them to continue the boycotting until adequate buys are made in January.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

GeoTav, I agree with mrki on this one.

In a way, yes ticket sales do add up to the profit they make but you must know that the ticket sales is by far the least of the incomes, and it also is shared by the city council as the stadium isn't owned by Milan. The fans boycotting the stadium is the right thing to do, and as you can see it has already forced the hand of Galliani to make one unnecessary signing in Adiyiah (however he's young, fast, recently earned a golden shoe and a gold medal in the world cup, and Galliani reminds us of that every day, Galliani in a way is just trying to make him look better so the fans start getting excited again and come to the stadium).

Right now the management are desperate to win the fans back, because the Milan fans are one of the most faithful and loyal fans in Europe. They always were there for the team however the problem now is that the managements seems to have abandoned the team for a few years now and the only way the fans can take action is by doing this.

I think they are doing a brilliant job. I'd love them to continue the boycotting until adequate buys are made in January.

And how do you know that has anything to do with the lack of fans? In fact, Galliani knew before the transfer window closed that there would be a lack of fans, since there were so few season tickets sold. How come we didn't sign anybody then (Except Huntelaar, but we had obviously been trying to sign a striker all summer)?

And how can you call the Milan fans the most loyal in Europe when San Siro is empty in these tough times? If anything these players deserve our support, they're fighting their asses off, it's absolutly unreal that players like Inzaghi, Ambrosini and Seedorf can play as much as they do, and at this level, considering their age.

The only thing these boycots does is to damage the club, not only financially, but also in a sporting sense, since there's less support for the team.

Ticket sales are not any indicator that any big club cares for, Berlusconi himself was the one who was advocating (around ~2003 if my memory works) a future of letting fans in for free to create an atmosphere for a TV audience

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

GeoTav, I agree with mrki on this one.

In a way, yes ticket sales do add up to the profit they make but you must know that the ticket sales is by far the least of the incomes, and it also is shared by the city council as the stadium isn't owned by Milan. The fans boycotting the stadium is the right thing to do, and as you can see it has already forced the hand of Galliani to make one unnecessary signing in Adiyiah (however he's young, fast, recently earned a golden shoe and a gold medal in the world cup, and Galliani reminds us of that every day, Galliani in a way is just trying to make him look better so the fans start getting excited again and come to the stadium).

Right now the management are desperate to win the fans back, because the Milan fans are one of the most faithful and loyal fans in Europe. They always were there for the team however the problem now is that the managements seems to have abandoned the team for a few years now and the only way the fans can take action is by doing this.

I think they are doing a brilliant job. I'd love them to continue the boycotting until adequate buys are made in January.

I was probably not clear ...
Ticket sales are not important economically, but for the image of the club, it can be disastrous to have an empty stadium in most of our games !! And that's what can cause economical problems, undirectly because that can affect your relations with partners, TV channels, etc ...

And to add something to what Christian said, Milan fans are simply the same as the ones of 99% of the other clubs: they disagree with something in the club or don't like the results: they firstly whistle the team, and now, we see some boycott (personnally, I don't remember the fans going as far as that in other clubs recently). For me, they simply stop supporting the team now that there is some trouble in the club (and they add some more trouble this way).

Reza, you got the point (by probably thinking to contradict what I said ): the ticket sales are not important, but the number of people in the stadium and the atmosphere is very important. We're just back to my first point of this post: it's important regarding our image. No crowd = bad image = possibly problems when you have to find new sponsors, to deal with TV channels (they can only tell you that they will decrease their offer as the games of your team at home are not very exciting as there is no support from fans, seriously, an average game with an amazing support and a big atmosphere is more interesting than the best of games with no noise in the stadium ...), etc.

I have to say that even if i support the boycot of the games because of the current situation(Berlu not willing to spend...)I feel a bit ashamed that so few people are coming to the stadium.I mean really,its so empty!

I want the fans to fill the stadium again,because boycotting the games isnt putting enough pressure on Berlu to spend.So we can rather go to the stadium and make our voices heard,supporting the players.It will have a positive affect on the performance.

About Mercato: I except nothing really....the rumours are all ****.Hernanes is mentioned again and again...i am sure the people at Milano know who he is,but nobody is making a move for him so lets forget it.He has been noticed,but we are not interested....

I just hope Beckham will have the same form as last year,he will do us great pleasure.And that Adiyiah can make an impact,even though that is much asked.If Becks can play according to his standard(or even above).And Adiyiah can show the glimpse of talent he has like he did on the WC,then we will be much stronger.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

...Reza, you got the point (by probably thinking to contradict what I said ): the ticket sales are not important, but the number of people in the stadium and the atmosphere is very important. We're just back to my first point of this post: it's important regarding our image. No crowd = bad image = possibly problems when you have to find new sponsors, to deal with TV channels (they can only tell you that they will decrease their offer as the games of your team at home are not very exciting as there is no support from fans, seriously, an average game with an amazing support and a big atmosphere is more interesting than the best of games with no noise in the stadium ...), etc.

I totally agree...while I continue my own "personal" protest in that I am not buying any Milan merchandise this year, an empty stadium, or near empty, negatively affects the performance of the players.

At this rate, we may very well have the same amount of away fans for a home game (though this has yet to happen)....plus, it will also impact the TV revenue we can demand...as without fans, its like you are watching a training session...gone is the beautiful coreography, and the startling "MILAN" shouts. So too will be the high TV rights we can command.

An Empty stadium might be good for Slowdorf as there will be less people booing him.

For real, I think the boycott is the best and most effective ways to show not only the MGT but also the football world that Berlu had lost it. I disagree with some of you about ticket sales being not important, b/c ticket sales will also bring in other sales like gifts, foods...from the fans going into the game. On top of that, when you have more fans attending the games, you can charge sponsors more money for posting ads in the stadium and on jerseys.

It is sad to see Milan at this stage but it was all done by Berlu. He can't blame anyone but himself.

I agree with both sides of the argument on this situation.

I want to send a message to Berlusconi (Galliani is clearly not in control of the money, I have said this once, and I'll say it again, if it was up to Galliani we would probably have Dzeko and Cissoko now)

However, GeoTav makes fantastic points as well.

The thing I have to object to is the idea that stadiums don't matter. That is a downright ridiculous idea. If ticket sales did not matter, then why do so many clubs in England, Spain, and Germany, seek to continuously improve and make their stadium capacities grow?

Turkish football has grown because the ticket sales have grown (with the prices, that is) and that they have moved into larger stadiums, being able to compete on the European transfer market more forcefully than before.

Stadiums are a massive part of the income of clubs, that is why Liverpool wants to move into a larger stadium, that is why Old Trafford continues to expand, that's why Arsenal moved into the Emirates. That's why a big part of Tottenham's future plans is to try and get into a larger stadium, as well.

Plus, if you owned the stadium, not only could you get even more money (not having to share it with the council) from ticket sales, but you could also host concerts and other events, adding to your income stream. Furthermore, you could even sell the naming rights to the stadium, bringing in even more income to the club.

The reason why ticket sales are important, even to a club like Milan (who's stadium is owned by the city council) is because we don't share what we EARN from San Siro, but we actually just pay rent. So, it actually does effect us, even if we don't own the stadium. We are paying the SAME RENT regardless of whether there is a sold out crowd every game or if there is only 1 fan at every game.

In short, stadiums are very important, and we do need to make sure that the club stays healthy economically. However, that being said, I want Berlusconi to realize that I expect more to be done at the club, even if I do realize that he doesn't want to spend because of the legal troubles he'd getting into.

Brasileiro, have you heard of Lucas Piazon? he is another young player (15) being labeled as the next big thing from Brazil. do you know anything of him?

since months now, we have heard that Leo's primary target is a fullback, left or right or rather both, and we have heard many names, most of which are brasilians and whom i personally know very little about and now i am reading everywhere that Philipp Lahm is being tracked by all the big clubs in Europe for a possible transfer even in Jan as it seems he is having problems with Van Gaal and the Bayern Management.....
is it me or is it unbelievable that we are not even being linked to someone who can play as a left or right back and is arguably one of the best in the world and is still only 26!!!!
i say, if we don't have the money (which i still don't understand why), then sell whoever needs to be sold (Huntelaar, Jankulovski, Oddo, Kaladze, Dida/Abbiati) and get that guy, we certainly cannot find anyone better.

Dzeko apparently told Gazzetta he will be in Milan next summer, which many here, including myself, will be happy to hear.

Savicevic has again advocated Krasic for Milan. I think it's a potential move, but we must keep an eye on non-eu status players. Personally, I'd still go for Jovetic if we were to go for a Serbian talent.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I agree with both sides of the argument on this situation.

I want to send a message to Berlusconi (Galliani is clearly not in control of the money, I have said this once, and I'll say it again, if it was up to Galliani we would probably have Dzeko and Cissoko now)

However, GeoTav makes fantastic points as well.

The thing I have to object to is the idea that stadiums don't matter. That is a downright ridiculous idea. If ticket sales did not matter, then why do so many clubs in England, Spain, and Germany, seek to continuously improve and make their stadium capacities grow?

Turkish football has grown because the ticket sales have grown (with the prices, that is) and that they have moved into larger stadiums, being able to compete on the European transfer market more forcefully than before.

Stadiums are a massive part of the income of clubs, that is why Liverpool wants to move into a larger stadium, that is why Old Trafford continues to expand, that's why Arsenal moved into the Emirates. That's why a big part of Tottenham's future plans is to try and get into a larger stadium, as well.

Plus, if you owned the stadium, not only could you get even more money (not having to share it with the council) from ticket sales, but you could also host concerts and other events, adding to your income stream. Furthermore, you could even sell the naming rights to the stadium, bringing in even more income to the club.

The reason why ticket sales are important, even to a club like Milan (who's stadium is owned by the city council) is because we don't share what we EARN from San Siro, but we actually just pay rent. So, it actually does effect us, even if we don't own the stadium. We are paying the SAME RENT regardless of whether there is a sold out crowd every game or if there is only 1 fan at every game.

In short, stadiums are very important, and we do need to make sure that the club stays healthy economically. However, that being said, I want Berlusconi to realize that I expect more to be done at the club, even if I do realize that he doesn't want to spend because of the legal troubles he'd getting into.

Actually, when the stadium is full in a matchday, we earn something like 2M, if we do that for the 19 home games, that's interesting. And if that also happens in CL and Italian Cup games (but that depends if we qualify), that's very interesting during the season.

Then, if I said it isn't very important, it's because we don't own our stadium.
For clubs owning their stadium, ticket sales become very important and they try their best to bring people into the stadium (look at Germany nowadays, the most important clubs all built their own stadium, amazing stadiums, and now they are always full).