Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by brk

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Pirlo has no place as part of the midfield two. They have to be purely about defense and covering for the fullbacks when they go forward. Pirlo's place is in that 1 in front of the 2, in place of Seedorf now. Maybe they can rotate?

I think so. Should we sell Pirlo?

I'm sorry Dutchie but for me, Flamini is potentially better than both Ambro and Gattuso because he can actually play football when he has the ball ... Of course, the 3 guys are very important for our defence when they play as it is their main role. But Flamini has this small "extra" (on another way, he is maybe a bit too "mad" at some moments and tends to do useless big fouls).

I think it is very funny to see how a lot of fans here ask for 2 DMs ... isn't it exactly why Ancelotti was bashed ?!
If you look at it: 2 DMs + Seedorf + Ronaldinho + Pato + Borriello is the same as 2 DMs + Pirlo + Seedorf + Kaka + Pato (on paper, I don't write about the level of these players but only about the number of attacking players).

And Barcelona is able to play with only 1 DM (nowadays, they don't play with any DM as Keita is not a real DM) in the same kind of formation as us. So your defence isn't better because you have the best 3 DMs in the world on the pitch, your defence is better when the team works harder and all together (which means "as a team" ...).
Also, our main problem is that we are in trouble to keep possession, do you think that putting 1 more DM is the solution ? I think that it is just a way to say "ok, we can't keep possession, we have no solution, so let's put one more DM (who won't help us to keep possession) and let's try to concede less by defending more when we lose possession" instead of "let's work harder and try to improve our possession which will allow us to concede less occasions and so, as a consequence, less goals".

I just want to add to my first paragraph that Flamini can be the ideal link between Pirlo and Seedorf thanks to his technical skills (comparing to Ambro or Gattuso). Also, he is never tired and runs for 90 minutes, defends each time it is needed, so, why not trying him ?!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

I'm sorry Dutchie but for me, Flamini is potentially better than both Ambro and Gattuso because he can actually play football when he has the ball ... Of course, the 3 guys are very important for our defence when they play as it is their main role. But Flamini has this small "extra" (on another way, he is maybe a bit too "mad" at some moments and tends to do useless big fouls).

I think it is very funny to see how a lot of fans here ask for 2 DMs ... isn't it exactly why Ancelotti was bashed ?!
If you look at it: 2 DMs + Seedorf + Ronaldinho + Pato + Borriello is the same as 2 DMs + Pirlo + Seedorf + Kaka + Pato (on paper, I don't write about the level of these players but only about the number of attacking players).

And Barcelona is able to play with only 1 DM (nowadays, they don't play with any DM as Keita is not a real DM) in the same kind of formation as us. So your defence isn't better because you have the best 3 DMs in the world on the pitch, your defence is better when the team works harder and all together (which means "as a team" ...).
Also, our main problem is that we are in trouble to keep possession, do you think that putting 1 more DM is the solution ? I think that it is just a way to say "ok, we can't keep possession, we have no solution, so let's put one more DM (who won't help us to keep possession) and let's try to concede less by defending more when we lose possession" instead of "let's work harder and try to improve our possession which will allow us to concede less occasions and so, as a consequence, less goals".

I just want to add to my first paragraph that Flamini can be the ideal link between Pirlo and Seedorf thanks to his technical skills (comparing to Ambro or Gattuso). Also, he is never tired and runs for 90 minutes, defends each time it is needed, so, why not trying him ?!

At the moment Ambrosini is awesome, when a player is playing as well as Ambrosini has been playing lately, then it's hard to argue with. Flamini knows that he's the future of the club, and he knows that Leo is a fair coach, who choses his players based on form.

I also don't agree that Flamini is better with the ball than Ambrosini, he might be better than Gattuso, but Ambrosini is a pretty good passer, not to mention, he scores quite a lot of goals for a DM.

I agree though that we should play with 1 DM. The results lately speaks for themselfs. The moment that we switched to the current system (Halftime against Roma), we started to win. Not to mention the fact, that every other club who isn't Inter, seems to prove that it can work. Pirlo is still to good to bench, although I bet Flamini will replace him for the next game, and it'll be interesting to see what he brings. And as you say, alot of it has to do with us throwing away possesion to easily. Dinho, Pirlo, Seedorf and even Ambrosini all try to find the killer pass WAY to often, coupled with the fact that alot of the players like to keep the ball for a bit to long, makes us predictable and to slow. Against Cagliari we played perfectly, but defensive errors/nice counter attacking, ment that we conceeded 3 goals, I really don't think that it was more than that.

Seedorf and Pirlo and Dinho should not be starting every game but currently they must because we lack squad depth

Originally Posted by GeoTav

I'm sorry Dutchie but for me, Flamini is potentially better than both Ambro and Gattuso because he can actually play football when he has the ball ... Of course, the 3 guys are very important for our defence when they play as it is their main role. But Flamini has this small "extra" (on another way, he is maybe a bit too "mad" at some moments and tends to do useless big fouls).

I think it is very funny to see how a lot of fans here ask for 2 DMs ... isn't it exactly why Ancelotti was bashed ?!
If you look at it: 2 DMs + Seedorf + Ronaldinho + Pato + Borriello is the same as 2 DMs + Pirlo + Seedorf + Kaka + Pato (on paper, I don't write about the level of these players but only about the number of attacking players).

And Barcelona is able to play with only 1 DM (nowadays, they don't play with any DM as Keita is not a real DM) in the same kind of formation as us. So your defence isn't better because you have the best 3 DMs in the world on the pitch, your defence is better when the team works harder and all together (which means "as a team" ...).
Also, our main problem is that we are in trouble to keep possession, do you think that putting 1 more DM is the solution ? I think that it is just a way to say "ok, we can't keep possession, we have no solution, so let's put one more DM (who won't help us to keep possession) and let's try to concede less by defending more when we lose possession" instead of "let's work harder and try to improve our possession which will allow us to concede less occasions and so, as a consequence, less goals".

I just want to add to my first paragraph that Flamini can be the ideal link between Pirlo and Seedorf thanks to his technical skills (comparing to Ambro or Gattuso). Also, he is never tired and runs for 90 minutes, defends each time it is needed, so, why not trying him ?!

Good post. I don't really see why Pirlo is so often the player who point their finger at lately, as the problem isn't our midfield 2. The problem, if we're talking about our defence, is there is not enough support from the attacking 4 coming back. Pato and Borriello generally press quite high up the pitch, so don't come back too often. Dinho and Seedorf are the biggest problem. Both are doing great in attack of late, but neither come back frequently to support at the back. More often than not, they both just stand around if we lose possession.

As for Flamini, I think against Catania he should start as Pirlo's replacement (as I believe Pirlo is suspended). This will be a good opportunity for us to see whether he's capable of playing Ambro's role in the side to the desired level. As much as I see Flamini being a big part of the club, right now he's not always been consistent enough with performances to warrant taking Ambro's spot, as Ambro has been excellent lately.

As for Pirlo, he's not that easy to take out as although he doesn't offer the creativity he used to (too deep for that), right now he's the one linking defence to attack. He's also the player who in deeper areas is spreading the play into wide areas for fullbacks, which opens up opponents and offers space to Dinho and Pato.

What I would like to see is in future seeing Pirlo tried in Seedorf's role once in a while as brk suggested, as it would be good for rotation. The other player who seems well equipped for that role is Di Gennaro (who I've not lost hope to be useful yet), though he needs to improve his workrate.

the problem as we all already agree is that the 2 midfielders are not getting enough support from the attacking players which makes them obliged to do a lot of defensive work in which Pirlo is not that great at and that is why he is being pointed out as the player that needs to be benched for Flamini...

it is not that Pirlo is lazy...i think he is probably the player who runs the most in this team (i hope someone has the statistic for that)...he just is not that good defensively

on the other hand, Seedorf is a lot more lazy than Pirlo and it is his job more than any other attacking player out there to help the 2 midfielders...(not to say that the other shouldn't help...yes they should)

that is why i totally agree with the guys here who say that we should play Ambrosini and Flamini and maybe try Pirlo in Seedorf's role because i know he will help out more at the back and has more urgency in releasing the counter-attack than Seedorf (who is the worst at that and who frustrates the hell out of me in how he is always slowing the game and searching for the backpass & the Marseille game was as clear an example as any)

also, Flamini is young and full of running and that is what we all like about him while Pirlo and Seedorf are "old-er" and shouldn't probably be playing every 3-4 days

i just hope Flamini can benefit from Pirlo's suspension against Catania & not lose his head and get sent-off for some reckless foul which is the only thing that i have against this guy

Oddo is out for 2 weeks. Time for Antonini and Abate to step up

I hope we can get some money for gattuso and Pippo in jan. And Pirlo its a love hate but again if money comes Beckham can do his job easy come jan.

Then we can sell Seedorf and Ronaldinho and Nesta and Ambrosini and then finally we can have a sub-30 average age!

Originally Posted by pirlofanusa

Oddo is out for 2 weeks. Time for Antonini and Abate to step up

2 months not two weeks

sorry i meant months

I've read somewhere that we have an agreement for Mauro Pederzoli (17 year old). Anyone know anything about this?

Originally Posted by OCmilano

I hope we can get some money for gattuso and Pippo in jan. And Pirlo its a love hate but again if money comes Beckham can do his job easy come jan.

Well, good idea, and who do you buy in January (when almost no club sells its players) ?

Also, replacing Pirlo by Beckham who is only a loan is an excellent idea too ...

Selling players is ok when you have replacements to buy (and if possible, better players, because if they aren't better, there is no point to sell).

And if we again sell our players to buy others, we will always have the same problem: no depth in our squad ...

Having Beckham is the good way to have one more player for two positions (we will have 3 players for 2 positions: the one of Pirlo and the one of Seedorf, + eventually Beckham will be able to replace Pato when for example, we lead a game, Borriello is too tired, so Pato goes playing as our main striker and Leo doesn't want to put a DM, so Beckham would be more defensive than Pato of course but could provide some good balls).

In our current formation, the only player we "can" sell is Gattuso . Then, we really need reinforcements in some areas (a winger, a fullback and a CD), and if there is money, which isn't the case, we should also try to get a CF and/or CM (but it will be for this summer as Beckham is already this CM and we won't buy any striker for sure).

PS: Just to mention that players who already played in CL won't be able to play in CL for us, so if you sell Pirlo, Gattuso and Pippo in January, who do you buy seriously ?

We simply cant sell Gattuso. Are all the people gone crazy? It is Rino Gattuso! Player that is creating those midfield problems is Seedorf, as Leo has no guts to play Pirlo where Seedorf plays and let 2 DM's to do their job. Then Ambro-Rino-Flamini would play normally! And our midfield wouldnt look like a circus with 1 + 1/2 players capable of defending in an important CL game, + invalid fullbacks.

Galliani keeps saying how great 4-2-4 is... we are not Atletico Madrid and I hate to see Milan playing 4-2-4, or this 4-2-3-1 in which there is no organized midfield. Its good for serie a smaller games as we can score plenty and win points, but lets be serious in CL.

We think we play like Barcelona? hahaha, did you see how Barca fullbacks and midfielders move? Insert Sagna, Criscito, Fabregas and one brilliant CF and then we can talk about Barcelona. In Barca 8 players defend, in Milan its 5 and a half ( Pirlo counts as a half ).

Seedorf? I will not comment it more, its ridiculous that in a CL game almost whole San Siro is booing him when he has the ball and he still feels no need to step up. Comical and offensive.

Now we are talking about 17 year old kids and players like Abate, Di Gennaro, Mariga. Paloschi ( still not ready for Milan ) etc. We should be talking about players like Fabregas, Aguero, Clichy, Sagna, Lloris, maybe Pjanic, Giuliano, Dzagoev etc.

EDIT:
calciomercato: Gattuso will leave, player to replace him: Ledesma, Mariga etc. This must be a joke... LEts sell him for 15-20mln and invest 7-8, that will do it.

Originally Posted by mrki

We simply cant sell Gattuso. Are all the people gone crazy? It is Rino Gattuso! Player that is creating those midfield problems is Seedorf, as Leo has no guts to play Pirlo where Seedorf plays and let 2 DM's to do their job. Then Ambro-Rino-Flamini would play normally! And our midfield wouldnt look like a circus with 1 + 1/2 players capable of defending in an important CL game, + invalid fullbacks.

Galliani keeps saying how great 4-2-4 is... we are not Atletico Madrid and I hate to see Milan playing 4-2-4, or this 4-2-3-1 in which there is no organized midfield. Its good for serie a smaller games as we can score plenty and win points, but lets be serious in CL.

We think we play like Barcelona? hahaha, did you see how Barca fullbacks and midfielders move? Insert Sagna, Criscito, Fabregas and one brilliant CF and then we can talk about Barcelona. In Barca 8 players defend, in Milan its 5 and a half ( Pirlo counts as a half ).

Seedorf? I will not comment it more, its ridiculous that in a CL game almost whole San Siro is booing him when he has the ball and he still feels no need to step up. Comical and offensive.

Now we are talking about 17 year old kids and players like Abate, Di Gennaro, Mariga. Paloschi ( still not ready for Milan ) etc. We should be talking about players like Fabregas, Aguero, Clichy, Sagna, Lloris, maybe Pjanic, Giuliano, Dzagoev etc.

EDIT:
calciomercato: Gattuso will leave, player to replace him: Ledesma, Mariga etc. This must be a joke... LEts sell him for 15-20mln and invest 7-8, that will do it.

Still beats selling Kaka for 65 mil and spend 15 or 3 mil (depends on how you look at the deal) on Huntelaar.