Banter 2009/2010

Pato is NOT a CF and he won't play in that position. He's a supporting striker. We have 3 CFs and that's it for this season. Beckham is coming and he'll play right winger (right SS, that is) or CAM, when we have to rest Dinho or Seedorf or even Pato. And nobody else is coming, that's it. Leo said that he's satisfied with what he have at the moment.

I disagree that Huntelaar can't fit in our system. That "target-man" thing, that's Borriello, that's not our system. He's a kind of player who operates on 25-30m from goal waiting for a long ball and when he receives it he's spreading it to the side or to the closest teammate. He played that way last season too. Netherlands NT is playing 4-3-3 for ages and Huntelaar fits in it very well (14 goals in 29 appearances for NT so far).

I would also try Borriello on the wing sometimes, that's the way to rest Pato, if we don't want Abate to play another match there. Borriello played in that position once last summer in America if I'm right.

http://www.transfermarketweb.com/?ac...ad&idsel=50972

http://milanelcuore.blogfree.net/?t=2107257

I posted this earlier, but it seems we are trying to seal a deal for Vito mannone, Arsenal's 3rd choice keeper. He is 21 (Italian), and has made some appearances in the CL already. A loan deal wouldn't make sense and Arsenal wouldn't be letting g of him cheap.

Oh, and that 14 year old Slovenian..... We probably won't hear of him for a while now, but it makes me feel good that we stole someone from Juve.

Originally Posted by Milano84

a point of reference. Look at pato's goal tally w/ borriello as opposed to huntelaar. Boreillo works for the team more so, and pato benefits. Huntelaar does NOT work for a team and pato ends up tooo deep as a result.

This has nothing to do w/ being a poacher either IMO. Pippo does an excellent job working for the team. Infact Hunt's goals can be contributed to pippo, knocking ti back and creating masterful space

I don't really think those stats are worth anything. When Huntelaar played earlier the whole team was collectively poor, since Leo switched to the new system Huntelaar has only really gotten the chance a couple of times, and he really made the most of it when he did.

I still think that unless we get a great offer, which means at least what we bought him for, then we should keep him. It usually takes time for players to settle, especially strikers, and we should give him that. From what I can tell from interviews he doesn't even know Italian yet, so I think it's fair to say that he's not fully integrated to the team yet.

We have to remember that if we buy Krasic or whoever, then they might take time to gel with the team as well, and there's absolutly no guarentees that they'll ever work.

My guess is that Galliani stuck his neck to get Huntelaar, I don't think Berlusconi wanted any players to be bought at all. At least thats how I read how Galliani celebrated, and spoke to the press, when Huntelaar scored his first goal. He might cut his loses in the next month, but I don't think he'll sell for less than what we payed, he's not a moron like Perez afterall.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Pato is NOT a CF and he won't play in that position. He's a supporting striker. We have 3 CFs and that's it for this season. Beckham is coming and he'll play right winger (right SS, that is) or CAM, when we have to rest Dinho or Seedorf or even Pato. And nobody else is coming, that's it. Leo said that he's satisfied with what he have at the moment.

I disagree that Huntelaar can't fit in our system. That "target-man" thing, that's Borriello, that's not our system. He's a kind of player who operates on 25-30m from goal waiting for a long ball and when he receives it he's spreading it to the side or to the closest teammate. He played that way last season too. Netherlands NT is playing 4-3-3 for ages and Huntelaar fits in it very well (14 goals in 29 appearances for NT so far).

I would also try Borriello on the wing sometimes, that's the way to rest Pato, if we don't want Abate to play another match there. Borriello played in that position once last summer in America if I'm right.

Pato did extremely well when he played as CF for us!! he was better for us as CF than as winger or support striker. he played his best games as a striker!

Yeah, Pato does well as a striker, even on his own.

I think the difference between Borri (and players like him) and Huntelaar is that Borri isn't the end of the move, he's the beginning of it. He starts (or is the second pass of) the final sequence, and Huntelaar usually ends it.

I'm very worried about how Beckham is going to fit.

4213 is not sustainable for the rest of the year and I think it's suicide against Man Utd. We have to revert back to the 4312:

------------------Dida
---------Nesta------------TS
Abate---------------------------Zambro
-------------Ambro
--------------------------Pirlo
-----Beckham
---------------Seedorf
-------------------------------Pato
----------------Borri

i think it will be easier fitting Beckham in than most of us are expecting:
we are playing with Ambro-Pirlo and Seedorf a nudge ahead and we are all complaining that he is not supporting enough in midfield and that is why in some matches against clever tactical coaches we are being overrun in midfield. So the solution will be to put get Seedorf back to the right side of Ambro with Prilo on the left and then Beckham can perfectly fit in Seedorf's place on the right of midfield with Seedorf taking Pirlo's place on the left whenever we need to rotate....which obviously we need especially for Seedorf & Pirlo
so just to graph it:

Seedorf/Beckham----Ambro----Pirlo/Seedorf

Pato---------HUNTELAAR--------Ronaldinho

yes this is pretty much similar to last season but the difference -and a big difference it is- is that a defensive midfielder would be in the middle and not Pirlo!!!!

Also i would also prefer to see more of Flamini / Gattuso as well rotating Ambro or even supporting him depending on the match situation.

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

Pato did extremely well when he played as CF for us!! he was better for us as CF than as winger or support striker. he played his best games as a striker!

Thank God somebody agrees

On Pato's case, yes he played great when we played with two forwards. When he's all alone in attack it's not working.

On system, Leonardo was always for 4-3-3 and now when that system is working, he will not change it. Beckam will fit in right winger or attacking midfielder position. I'm sure he can do a similar job as Ronaldinho on the wing.

I forgot, that formation with Seedorf as AM and two strikers in front of him SUCKS a big time, as we all saw earlier this season, because there's no connection between midfield and attack. With the players we have, this formation (4-3-3, that is) seems most balanced. Only other formation that would worked is 4-3-1-2 with the three of Pirlo, DM and Beckham/Seedorf, but then Ron would have less space to operate.

Originally Posted by Revolver

On Pato's case, yes he played great when we played with two forwards. When he's all alone in attack it's not working.

this is not true. Pato played many games as lone striker with kaka/seedorf behind him. especially in his first half season he was fantastic!!! Pato would do really well as our only central stiker.

I dont get it,i really dont get it.When visiting the red and black forum they also had this discussion,about Pato who is better at CF.But i dont get the point of the discussion because this is the only solution.

How do we have to play if we play with two CF,because we all know Pato can play at his own upfront???We then need to change our formation,why?Because one player is better at a other position?Its not like Pato is playing worse at RW,he is doing solid there.If we change our formation,we maybe will do crap again.

And where the hell should Ronaldinho play?If we move him to the bench or other position,then we will be useless....FACE IT PEOPLE,NO DINHO,NO VICTORY!!!!

Its good as it is.Pirlo is playing in his favourite position,same goes for Ambro.Ronaldinho is great on his old LW position,Borrie has the characteristics for this formation,only Pato is a bit out of position.

what? you got it al wrong there dutchie

who is talking about changing formation? :s



Point is that IF we would sign Krasic Pato could play as our striker, with dinho on the left and krasic on the right. so I dont know why you wanna exclude dinho in our formation then :s

exactly, not asking for change of formation!!!
that's the only reason we mentioned Pato as CF is as an extra option; hecan do very well there if need be, unlike what some people here are saying, and he has the history to prove it...
i'm sure we all agree that our current formation is the best and what i think we only need to adjust that Seedorf position to help more in defence...

exactly!

This discussion began when I said I wouldnt mind getting Krasic and selling huntelaar. As huntelaar even after his 2goals doesnt get many chances, so I think he could be leaving. And we need someone like krasic more. he could play on the wing and pato in attack as some other option.

About this Pato discussion I thought I'd bring back a couple of posts I made which last season suggested where Pato's qualities lie. Bear in mind that most of the time I discuss Pato's being the leading striker he was essentially a lone forward with Kaka supporting him.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Regarding Pato, a recent discussion with Geotav in one of the game threads (I think the Lecce one) we spoke about Pato's consistency in his play and particularly his scoring. This prompted me to do a little research into what Pato's goalscoring ratio has been like this season in the various roles he's played. In particular, I was interested in his goals to games ratio in the league during his role as the lead striker.

In 27 appearances this season Pato's scored 14 goals in the league, not a bad goal to game ratio by any margin, especially for a 19 yr old. I counted an 11 games period in the middle of the season where Pato played consistently as the leading striker of the side (from Juve last year until the match before Atalanta a few weeks ago). During this time, Pato scored 9 of his 14 goals this season. That's a ratio of 0.8 goals per game, an incredible return, especially considering the state of our team this season. That leaves a total of 5 goals in the other 16 appearances where he's not played as the main striker (2 of those in the last four games alonside Pippo). The return isn't anywhere near as impressive and for me, this clearly indicates where he's at his best in the side. I have moaned quite a lot about him not playing in his best role and I think I justify my argument with these figures.

And when questioned about the number of assists he's made as supporting forward...

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Right, I did a little more research and I assume Soccernet figure of 5 is correct. I looked through the official sites list of archived matches this season during the period which Pato was the lead striker and found during this time he assisted 2 goals (I believe both for Kaka against Bologna and Roma I think) in 11 matches.

That leaves 3 assists during the rest of the 16 matches that he's played. If I'm honest, it really isn't particularly better than when he plays up front.

In that respect, I still must say I definitely think he's much better as a leading striker.

I'm no longer going to say Pato must be played as striker, because I think he's developed a lot under Leo and is now realizing his ability out in wide areas. However, should he be required to lead our forward line, I think he's more than capable.

Let's not forget our side is based on the 1982 Brazil side. In the world cup they played Serginho as the leading forward, who isn't too dissimilar to Borriello (though quite a lot better), but in reality their leading man was meant to be the more technical player Careca, who relies less on physique and more on his positional sense and technique.

Where that Brazil world cup side was so much better than our side was it's consistency and teamwork in attack. There was constant movement and interchanging of players who would always make space for each other. We don't have half of that movement, nor do we have the quality in our fullbacks like they did (the fullbacks always pushed up).

If we play Pato as the leading forward, he must be adequately supported. From our midfield through to him we'd need constant movement and players running for each other. With our current side, in particular Seedorf and Ronaldinho only moving when they feel like it (never mind our fullbacks) I'm not sure if this is achievable at this point. However, should someone like Krasic come it'd be worth a try.