Banter 2009/2010

good points by Geo(as usual) and Slifer, however I believe slifer is correct. Just as how Berlu can pump money into the club whenever, I believe he can take it out whenever. The main reason Milan is not spending money for the past few years is because Berlusconi is taking the money as he needs it. There isn't any logical explanation otherwise for Milan not to be spending money as any top European team in the past 5 years. Everytime Milan has had to spend a rather big amount of money, we have always had to publicly ask and then "thank" Berlusconi for paying out of his pocket, regardless of all the profits we've had from the CL, marketing, TV rights and ticket sales.

Slifer is also correct about the system in America, the example with the Lakers and King James (lebron) is a good one.

My personal opinion, is that we will see Milan selling a big player for big bucks every 1-2 years for the next 6-7 years and will minimize spending. I believe Berlu wants to squeeze every penny out of Milan before he sells it eventually. It's also true that his children are not interested in managing Milan and that's the biggest factor as to why he should sell.

Just read an interesting article...here are all the interesting players from Europea that will be out of contract in 2010:
F.Inzaghi
Jovanovic (28, Standard)
de Guzman (22, Feyenood)
Van Buyten (32, Bayern)
Altintop (27, Bayern)
Cacau (28, Schalke)
Hitzlsperger (27, Schalke)
Deco (32, Chelsea)
Ballack (33, Chelsea)
Joe Cole (28, Chelsea)
Thomas Rosicky (29, Arsenal)
Johnny Evans (22, Man U)
Kallstrom (27, Lyon)
Chamakh (25, Bordeaux)
Fernandinho (27, Shakhtar)
Maxi Rodriguez (28, Atletico)

I think the most useful to us from that list would be Evans, Joe Cole, Fernandinho.

Today my only wish for my birthday is that we sign an attacking full back in the next month! That's not too much to ask for, is it??

But we have signed an attacking full back!

Beckham!

I'm kidding, but it seems Leo is just about crazy enough to try it:

------------------Dida
---------Nesta----------TS
Beckham--------------------Zambro
----------------------Pirlo
------------Ambro
--------------------Seedorf
----Pato--------------------Ronaldinho
------------------Borri

That seems more like a Long Range Ballistics squadron than a football team. Borri better score a double every game, or else...

" The crazy idea in the mind of Leonardo could, however, be to put Beckham on the right wing, but not as a winger, but as a quarterback. What is certain is that the return of English to ensure Milanello different tactical solutions to Leonardo, who knows for sure the best place to make it better." -MilanNews.it

Originally Posted by GeoTav

About the US system, I have a lot to learn, I just know it's franchises and that they can move, then about the draft, etc, I have no idea about how that works so thanks for the short explanation, I'll try to get a look at it later to understand it better ...

About Milan: litterally, "une société par actions" or "societa per azioni" is the kind of firms with shares (FR actions or ITA azioni = ENG shares). Fininvest, Berlusconi's holding, is the main shareholder with approximately 99,90% of the shares ...

There are 48M shares, each share costs about 50 eurocents ...

There are then other firms linked to Milan:
- Milan Entertainment SRL (firm in charge of the management of the AC Milan brand, value: approximately €180M)
- Milan Real Estate SPA (firm in charge of the management of headquarters and Milanello, nothing about sports, just money here)
- Fondazione Milan Onlus (charitable foundation)
- Consorzio San Siro (firm in charge of the management of San Siro/Giuseppe Meazza)
- ASanSiro (local development agency)

The first 3 are 100% owned by AC Milan.
The fourth is co-owned with Inter (50-50).
The fifth is co-owned with Inter (45%) and Fondazione ChiamaMilano (10%).

The American system is different from one league to another as well, but the main idea is similar in a lot of ways. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

As far as Milan being a societa per azioni, my question is, is the team actually trading publicly? If I understand this correctly, when those shares arent traded publicly, they are nothing but a stock option program for employees, except this time it is for other organizations. It's basically like me saying "GeoTav gets 1/4 of what my company make every year". The organizations you mentioned do not really have the voice to overrule FinInvest because they hold such a small percentage of the company. Their existence as "co-owners" is simply a formality and doesn't change the basic structure of the organization as a whole. A company doesn't become a publicly traded company just because they give some shares of its stock to its employees. That means, FinInvest can still make all the decisions and do what they feel like doing with the team, such as pumping out every penny it has.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

good points by Geo(as usual) and Slifer, however I believe slifer is correct. Just as how Berlu can pump money into the club whenever, I believe he can take it out whenever. The main reason Milan is not spending money for the past few years is because Berlusconi is taking the money as he needs it. There isn't any logical explanation otherwise for Milan not to be spending money as any top European team in the past 5 years. Everytime Milan has had to spend a rather big amount of money, we have always had to publicly ask and then "thank" Berlusconi for paying out of his pocket, regardless of all the profits we've had from the CL, marketing, TV rights and ticket sales.

Slifer is also correct about the system in America, the example with the Lakers and King James (lebron) is a good one.

My personal opinion, is that we will see Milan selling a big player for big bucks every 1-2 years for the next 6-7 years and will minimize spending. I believe Berlu wants to squeeze every penny out of Milan before he sells it eventually. It's also true that his children are not interested in managing Milan and that's the biggest factor as to why he should sell.

Just read an interesting article...here are all the interesting players from Europea that will be out of contract in 2010:
F.Inzaghi
Jovanovic (28, Standard)
de Guzman (22, Feyenood)
Van Buyten (32, Bayern)
Altintop (27, Bayern)
Cacau (28, Schalke)
Hitzlsperger (27, Schalke)
Deco (32, Chelsea)
Ballack (33, Chelsea)
Joe Cole (28, Chelsea)
Thomas Rosicky (29, Arsenal)
Johnny Evans (22, Man U)
Kallstrom (27, Lyon)
Chamakh (25, Bordeaux)
Fernandinho (27, Shakhtar)
Maxi Rodriguez (28, Atletico)

I think the most useful to us from that list would be Evans, Joe Cole, Fernandinho.

Today my only wish for my birthday is that we sign an attacking full back in the next month! That's not too much to ask for, is it??

We might be able to have a shot at Chamakh, but I am sure Evans would be a priority for Manchester to resign

Originally Posted by Saliwonczyk

Have a look at these stats on our team... They're quite interesting, and further solidify our viewpoints on certain players, ie. Oddo. I also think Pato would be dissapointed with his lack of assists. Bringing that into his game would make him deadly.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/squad?id=103&cc=3436

Nice link. I think it's telling that after only 9 shots from Huntelaar, he has scored 2 goals So for roughly every 4 shots he's had he's scored. As compared to Pato who is has scored 7 after 44 shots. Now I know Pato is a winger but even Pippo has only managed 1 in 16.... Looking at the stats klass should be starting most games.

BTW what do people think of Cristico as a wingback???

We sign anyone , meh I will not hold my breath.

Originally Posted by Saliwonczyk

Have a look at these stats on our team... They're quite interesting, and further solidify our viewpoints on certain players, ie. Oddo. I also think Pato would be dissapointed with his lack of assists. Bringing that into his game would make him deadly.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/squad?id=103&cc=3436

Nesta has committed 10 fouls in 14 matches!!! i know that's NESTA but still, could that be true???

on another note, i'm sure everybody heard of what Abramovich has done lately for Chelsea and for those of you who haven't, check it out:
http://www.tribalfootball.com/abramo...a-debts-540001

and to think that everybody was criticizing him when he first bought Chelsea!
how Milan could do with a president like that now

Originally Posted by Alex Pato

Nice link. I think it's telling that after only 9 shots from Huntelaar, he has scored 2 goals So for roughly every 4 shots he's had he's scored. As compared to Pato who is has scored 7 after 44 shots. Now I know Pato is a winger but even Pippo has only managed 1 in 16.... Looking at the stats klass should be starting most games.

BTW what do people think of Cristico as a wingback???

Nest Has a goal for every 3 shots!!!... let him play up front... Stats are stats and dont normaly take into account game or match conditions...

Originally Posted by slifersd

Jay, Berlusconi is trying to get his money back, that's all. He is going to sell one star player after another to recoup his money and then sell the club to someone else for a nice profit. It is not a bad business decision, but I wouldn't hesitate to punch him in the face too if I ever saw him.

I think we are making too much out of this half of the squad will retire in 3 years claim. Look at what the club has been doing the last half a decade and you will see that these players will be here for a lot longer than that. The management will offer them stupid money on extensions to make sure AC Milan still has big name players (no matter how outdated they are) to brag about when asked about how poorly the team is.

This is a perfect post! Bravo!! Exactly what Milan is doing, said in a precise and realistic way. There is no room for bragging about the past, Milan is Milan and it cannot function without the money. Berlusconi cannot be Milan's president anymore as this is ridiculous what he is doing to the club. We made 80mln this summer, and got Hunter for free ( now the news are that Bayern got Robben for free actually so that Real can sign Ribery in the summer. Which confirms my theory that Milan didnt pay 15mln for Huntelaar).

We brought Beckham for nothing and Jovanovic ( who simply isnt good enough ) also for nothing. If Huntelaar is sold that will be another 15mln in Milan's account, without an investment.

Galliani is selling sophistics in the media and people are happy when Milan wins 3,4 games and forget what G&B are actually doing to the club...

About the news: If J.Cole is free then we are morons not to try for him, but Im sure he'll sign with Chelsea a new contract.

Battega has arrived in Juve, one of the "triade" with Moggi and Girauldo. News from Holland say he is in contact with Hiddink. Be sure that Battega knows everything about mercato and that Juve will no longer buy players like Melberg, Grygera, Poulsen, Thiago etc.

I still claim that Milan has no future without the new owner, these results are last drops of a quality team, but without money we simply cannot stay on top. Which is why we right now are not on top and hawent won scudetto in 5/6 years...

Originally Posted by mrki

This is a perfect post! Bravo!! Exactly what Milan is doing, said in a precise and realistic way. There is no room for bragging about the past, Milan is Milan and it cannot function without the money. Berlusconi cannot be Milan's president anymore as this is ridiculous what he is doing to the club. We made 80mln this summer, and got Hunter for free ( now the news are that Bayern got Robben for free actually so that Real can sign Ribery in the summer. Which confirms my theory that Milan didnt pay 15mln for Huntelaar).

We brought Beckham for nothing and Jovanovic ( who simply isnt good enough ) also for nothing. If Huntelaar is sold that will be another 15mln in Milan's account, without an investment.

Galliani is selling sophistics in the media and people are happy when Milan wins 3,4 games and forget what G&B are actually doing to the club...

About the news: If J.Cole is free then we are morons not to try for him, but Im sure he'll sign with Chelsea a new contract.

Battega has arrived in Juve, one of the "triade" with Moggi and Girauldo. News from Holland say he is in contact with Hiddink. Be sure that Battega knows everything about mercato and that Juve will no longer buy players like Melberg, Grygera, Poulsen, Thiago etc.

I still claim that Milan has no future without the new owner, these results are last drops of a quality team, but without money we simply cannot stay on top. Which is why we right now are not on top and hawent won scudetto in 5/6 years...

How do you explain Pato, Thiago Silva and all the youngsters we bought this summer? Stop trying to compare us with Real or Chelsea. We're no longer a team that spends at the top of the market, so what? We still have prestige. Players like Dzeko, Torres, whoever, they still want to play for Milan, you can't deny that. Will we sign them? Maybe, maybe not. We did sign Pato for a lot of money, and Thiago Silva was a great investment.

Stop obsessing over money. We're doing well now and we're planning for the future. Once we buy the missing pieces we'll be a pretty damn good team. If we sell Pato next summer, i'll be the first person to in line to rape Galliani and Berulsconi, but until then, we're not in crisis.

Yes, I know we sold Kaka, and anything is possible now, but i'm trying not to let that thought get to me...

Maybe we'll not sell Pato next summer, but in 3, 4 years Im sure, if Silvio continues this policy, that Pato will be gone. Milan is selling its soul in players like Sheva and even more Ricky. I now do not trust the "Sheva couldnt be stoped" thing either.

We didnt buy Pato this summer, it was 2 years ago. Planning the future? By buying primavera players? People in here are so thrilled about it simply becouse Milan has stoped doing that 10 years ago and now started again. While other big teams are doing it and are staying quiet. Only Galliani has to brag aboue every f... detail like we are morons.

About our "planned" future: Milan will need to change Ambro, Rinho, Pirlo, Dinho, Nesta, both fullbacks and GK in 2,3 years. That is how much Galliani planned the future. Future needed to be sorted out after 2007 CL win.

Inter invested all they got from Ibra ( plkus Eto'o ), Juve invested 50 mln in 2 players, we cannot even keep ours. It is NOT possible that Milan is in such heavy situation that it cannot invest in normal ways.

Originally Posted by brk

How do you explain Pato, Thiago Silva and all the youngsters we bought this summer? Stop trying to compare us with Real or Chelsea. We're no longer a team that spends at the top of the market, so what? We still have prestige. Players like Dzeko, Torres, whoever, they still want to play for Milan, you can't deny that. Will we sign them? Maybe, maybe not. We did sign Pato for a lot of money, and Thiago Silva was a great investment.

Stop obsessing over money. We're doing well now and we're planning for the future. Once we buy the missing pieces we'll be a pretty damn good team. If we sell Pato next summer, i'll be the first person to in line to rape Galliani and Berulsconi, but until then, we're not in crisis.

Yes, I know we sold Kaka, and anything is possible now, but i'm trying not to let that thought get to me...

With all due respect, BRK, you are in denial about the state of the team right now. Just because we signed a couple of new young players doesn't mean we actually have a good plan for the future. Pato and Silva were brought in because we lost Maldini and Shevchenko, not because we wanted to get better as a team. That's the plan for the team right now, we are going to hang on to every single big named has beens for as long as we can and only replace them with younger players when we have to. Had Shevchenko not go to Chelsea, would we still sign Pato? We should, because Sheva was aging, but we wouldn't because we don't want to spend the money.

Nobody here is trying to compare Milan with Chelsea and Real Madrid, not any more, but we are lagging behind in the transfer market when compared to Inter and Juve. If we are in such a terrible financial situation, then how did they manage to get the money to spend? To take that discussion a step further, we are not even doing any better than Genoa or Fiorentina in the market these days, why is that? In this day and age, prestige doesn't get you anywhere with players. Torres, Dzeko, Santon, Balotelli and plenty of others have confessed their love for Milan this year, but how many of them wears the Milan jersey? The 22 million euros we spent on Pato was a lot by milan standards, but that won't even get us Dzeko in this market, nevertheless Torres.

You made a big assumption about us BUYING the missing pieces, but how are we supposed to buy those players without money? We didn't buy anyone worth mentioning after we sold Shevchenko and we did the exact same thing after we sold Kaka. There is no indication whatsoever to me that we are actually planning for the future right now. No, I dont consider buying 20 teenagers as a good plan for the future, because the success rate of these players are usually very very low. Hell, we'd be lucky if 2 or 3 of those young players even turn out to be good rotation players.

You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but the facts still remains that this team is on the fastrack to mediocracy. If you don't want to think about it, that's fine, but don't judge others who do.

Originally Posted by brk

i'll be the first person to in line to rape Galliani and Berulsconi

That's a wee bit disturbing.

Brk, due, you are so wrong with saying Milan is fine as it is....
Maybe the current result is giving you hope. But isn't that what Milan should be expected to do year in and year out, like 2nd spot in the league and making it to the knockout stage of CL. Just b/c we all thought Milan was doom during the preseason and might get knockout in the first round in the CL and that we should be happy that didn't happen?

Come on mate, this is Milan. They should at least be challenging for the League until the last few games and making it to the semi-final of CL every year. Everything less is a failure.

As for young players, Mrki is right on, when he said that all teams are have been doing that for quite sometime and only Galli is stupid enough to keep making praise about it like Milan had won the CL. Look at ManU, do you know how many youngsters they sign from all over the world each year? I don't either but I am sure the numbers are a lot higher than what Milan did this past summer and they had been doing it for the last 15 yrs. Then you look at their squad now, Gibson, the Silva Twins, Evans, Wellback, Mancheda(might be going on loan) Anderson and Nani(signed when he was 20). All of them can be or is in the rotation for ManU at this moment, can you say guys like Alberterzzi, Zigoni, Greta, and others Milan so call youths the same?
Torres, Dzeko and others might say they love to play for Milan......but they probably also said that about other clubs too. On top of that, until they actually play for Milan in their PRIME and not after a 2 yrs injury or 32, they are just players who said they would like to play for Milan instead of players who actually play for Milan.
On the topic of Pato and T. Silva. Yeah they are great signings, but with the state of the team, Milan need another 4 of them within the next two years. Something that Berlu is not going to do.

Originally Posted by Blacktop

That's a wee bit disturbing.

I wonder what'd your reaction be if you find out other phrases or jokes us arabs use....