Juventus vs Milan 10/1, week 19

Gattusso is very ordinary in possesion and there is no need to have 3 defensive Midfielders , he gives away possesion very cheaply like he did tonight on many occasion's something maybe you dont want to see Revolver. Flamini is just as good at breaking down play and has a better engine isn't as disruptive as Rino and is better on the ball. Thats what I think and nothing you can say will change my mind.Gattusso at 25 was better than Flamini but Gattusso isnt 25 and isnt better than Flamini now.

wow, what a bad game. the ref controlled this game like a puppet master, how many whistles did he have! he didnt let either team play.
and with juventus putting 10 players behind the ball it was like watching cricket.

but that scoreboard looked oh so GOOOOD.

Originally Posted by Jay Crisp

Gattusso is very ordinary in possesion and there is no need to have 3 defensive Midfielders , he gives away possesion very cheaply like he did tonight on many occasion's something maybe you dont want to see Revolver. Flamini is just as good at breaking down play and has a better engine isn't as disruptive as Rino and is better on the ball. Thats what I think and nothing you can say will change my mind.Gattusso at 25 was better than Flamini but Gattusso isnt 25 and isnt better than Flamini now.

Will you tell ANY of those occasions when Gattuso gave possession away? Because you are telling me that he did that on my occasions. Flamini lost more balls for 20 minutes he played! Not to mention that stupid foul that would let to the goal if there wasn't a brilliance of Dida. That is THE main reason because he is not first team material. On many occasions, generally speaking, not just tonight, he refuses to use his brain and he's making a lot of unneeded fouls in dangerous positions.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Will you tell ANY of those occasions when Gattuso gave possession away? Because you are telling me that he did that on my occasions. Flamini lost more balls for 20 minutes he played! Not to mention that stupid foul that would let to the goal if there wasn't a brilliance of Dida. That is THE main reason because he is not first team material. On many occasion, generally speaking, not just tonight, he refuses to use his brain and he's making a lot of unneeded fouls in dangerous positions.

We'll just have to agree to disagree buddy because there is a difference of opinion , main thing is we beat Juve 3-0 in there own backyard , and Leo is doing really really well. With a few more signing's of his choosing we will be on the right road.

Originally Posted by Jay Crisp

Gattusso is very ordinary in possesion and there is no need to have 3 defensive Midfielders , he gives away possesion very cheaply like he did tonight on many occasion's something maybe you dont want to see Revolver. Flamini is just as good at breaking down play and has a better engine isn't as disruptive as Rino and is better on the ball. Thats what I think and nothing you can say will change my mind.Gattusso at 25 was better than Flamini but Gattusso isnt 25 and isnt better than Flamini now.

Jay, whilst I agree with your assessment of both players in terms of ability and age-wise, the one main quirk I have with Flamini, something which you might not want to admit, is that he sometimes chooses the wrong passes when not under pressure. The three main plays I remember for him on tonight were:

1) He passes the ball to Diego/Melo, and has to track back all the way back to the half-way line to retreive the ball (that very play, if you remember, which forced Ambro into a tackle and got him booked).

2) One lucky two-legged scissor tackle on Del Peiro allowing a Milan counter, which, if taken wrongly by the ref, may have resulted in a yellow or even a red, and

3) One intercepted ball which forced the corner for the third goal.

Now, I'm not bashing him, I'm just taking things into perspective. Both of our players have their good points and their bad points, the main thing is, they're our players, and as always its Leo who decides who's better on the night to perform.

Flamini isn't sharp because he isn't getting games. We need someone to get hurt for him to play, and eventually he'll get match sharpness and play well.

I can't believe I was asking for Pirlo to be sold this summer... What a player...

i know that Borriello is the only ideal striker we have for 4-3-3.yet he is not enough,he fights well yet its not enough for me,he plays for the team,he fight well yet how many treats he gave to juve tonight?how many shoots on goal?Strikers like Fabiano,Milito does both.they fights,plays for the team then they can do something alone with the ball...

i was about to say that mrki,you did it before me,T.Silva could do great job as BTB yet we dont have anyone to replace him at defence...

Originally Posted by Ryo

Jay, whilst I agree with your assessment of both players in terms of ability and age-wise, the one main quirk I have with Flamini, something which you might not want to admit, is that he sometimes chooses the wrong passes when not under pressure. The three main plays I remember for him on tonight were:

1) He passes the ball to Diego/Melo, and has to track back all the way back to the half-way line to retreive the ball (that very play, if you remember, which forced Ambro into a tackle and got him booked).

2) One lucky two-legged scissor tackle on Del Peiro allowing a Milan counter, which, if taken wrongly by the ref, may have resulted in a yellow or even a red, and

3) One intercepted ball which forced the corner for the third goal.

Now, I'm not bashing him, I'm just taking things into perspective. Both of our players have their good points and their bad points, the main thing is, they're our players, and as always its Leo who decides who's better on the night to perform.

Yeah id agree both have good and bad point's. But match sharpness for flamini is needed , then Im not at Milanello maybe he isn't putting in the effort. And Rino well Rino's Rino he is an intense enigma.

Originally Posted by Rabia15

i know that Borriello is the only ideal striker we have for 4-3-3.yet he is not enough,he fights well yet its not enough for me,he plays for the team,he fight well yet how many treats he gave to juve tonight?how many shoots on goal?Strikers like Fabiano,Milito does both.they fights,plays for the team then they can do something alone with the ball...

i was about to say that mrki,you did it before me,T.Silva could do great job as BTB yet we dont have anyone to replace him at defence...

But Borriello wasn't very helped tonight ...
Ronaldinho had some problems to shine (despite two goals, actually, if we follow the rules, only one should be awarded to him), and Beckham stayed a lot behind.

And nevertheless, Borriello did manage to put both Canavarro and Chiellini several times in trouble ...

I knew it was going to be a crappy game from the very beggining. I never expected open football. I was hoping for it and wanted to beat them by dominating them......but in the back of my head i never really expected it.

Juve always plays in the style that we saw today. Crappy, clumsy, shutting the middle down. Packing the middle and playing physical and at times dirty (there was way too many dirty challenges in the 1st half from their side). They knew exactly what they were going to do and that was be physical. They doubled Ronaldinho before he even got the ball. Everytime they could anticipate that the ball was going on that side they pulled Salihamidzic back and pulled a CM to the side as well.

In any case....we stayed compact in the middle as well, and that also contributed to the way the game looked like (it looked like it was played in a half a stadium because of the lack of space).

To add to the praise of our CB duo....what more can I say. Simply brilliant.

It's great to get 3 points in Torino....and to win by 3-0 it's even better. I have no complains. Mrki...i understand you are not satisfied with Ronaldinho because he didn't do much. He simply wasn't given the space to, nor was he helped by a teammate. But he still came up with 2 goals. Maybe lucky but he did. Actually, the first one was an obvious 'worked on' set piece. Since it was also tried in the 1st half as well. 3 Times on a corner Ronaldinho made the same run to the near post. It was obviously something that was worked on......something that you complained about last year (that we had no 'practiced set plays').

As for Gattuso. I don't think people are haters about him. I personally love Rino and his attitude.....but today he missplaced and missed too many passes for my liking. (just an example...on two occasions Antonini was READY to get the pass from Rino and storm forward with the ball, yet Gattuso from no more then 10meters away passed the ball behind Antonini.....and right then and there killed any possibility of a fast attacking move.) There were other situations like that......that actually count like a completed pass, yet don't tell the whole story added to many attempted passes under not pressure that ended up nowhere. Having said all that, I can never complain about the recovered balls that he comes up with and all the ground that he covers. However, IMO he shouldn't have started in the first place because he's been out for a long time and we saw against Genoa midweek that he is rusty and needs time.

Anyhow.....a great victory. Forza Milan and lets go after Inter now!!!!

Edit: GeoTav.....as far as I know, a the rules state that a deflection is not an own goal. That's what the first goal was. A slight deflection to a header that was already going towards the goal. Now, maybe it was going to be saved and maybe not. But that's not the point. For a goal to be considered "own goal", the ball needs to be going outside of the target and then take a complete change of direction to end in the net.....OR if it's going towards the net, then it needs to change the direction that's it's traveling COMPLETELY. So, legally the 1st goal = Dinho goal. Although, it was lucky. But as I mentioned above....he deserves the goal because that move (first post run) was made more then once and it was obviously a practiced set play.

It's not fair to bash any of our players because we just made a magnificent result, our greatest derby win for years.

But I agree with Rabia15, Borriello fights well but he lacks any treat to the opposing goal when marked closely. Rabia15 mention other players who fight well and score. I would add Dzeko there.

Ryo, you forgot to mention that foul he made at the end, when Del Piero almost scored on a free kick. And I remember well that first thing you mentioned, it was like, we're in possession play for minute or two, quick passes, and then ball gets to Flamini who coolly passes it into opposing player with no treat around him, which made me like WTF?! As I already said, he refuses to use his brain on many occasions.

I didn't want to enter pointless discussion about Flamini - Gattuso, who's better, I didn't said Gattuso was great tonight, but I'm sick and tired of people bashing him when he actually plays very good. I know many of you around here simply don't like to see Gattuso in first 11, but I don't like to see Flamini in first 11 either and when he plays good I say he played good.

most important win till now..the most awful match i ve seen for a long time..we were lucky,we played against an EX-team,who like i said on my first post arent capable of passing 2 times in a row,juventus are pathetic these days,and today they played really dirty football(i am surprised noone mentioned it).

actually we missed seedorf more than pato(which i didnt expect),there wasnt any space for pato to be dangerous and bekcham was pretty good with his passes,especially on the 2nd half..seedorf although would be just what we needed when we scored,as he is our most important "possesion" player..he kills the game with his calmness and his control of thoughts and space around him..

borriello is almost perfect for this team,he isnt a better player than huntelaar but he is more suitable for the role needed..its just as simple as that.

Originally Posted by nefremo

Edit: GeoTav.....as far as I know, a the rules state that a deflection is not an own goal. That's what the first goal was. A slight deflection to a header that was already going towards the goal. Now, maybe it was going to be saved and maybe not. But that's not the point. For a goal to be considered "own goal", the ball needs to be going outside of the target and then take a complete change of direction to end in the net.....OR if it's going towards the net, then it needs to change the direction that's it's traveling COMPLETELY. So, legally the 1st goal = Dinho goal. Although, it was lucky. But as I mentioned above....he deserves the goal because that move (first post run) was made more then once and it was obviously a practiced set play.

For me, it appeared like the ball wasn't going towards the goal before being deflected ... it's why I said that it shouldn't be awarded to R80, but I may be wrong and actually, who really cares ??

PS: Ambrosini didn't do the same performance as against Genoa unfortunately ... but Pirlo was superb.

Originally Posted by M.O.I.

most important win till now..the most awful match i ve seen for a long time..we were lucky,we played against an EX-team,who like i said on my first post arent capable of passing 2 times in a row,juventus are pathetic these days,and today they played really dirty football(i am surprised noone mentioned it).

Actually nefremo mentioned it and i wanted to say it as well...with players like Amauri (who i hope will never be called to the Azzuris), Melo (who i still can't believe how poor he is this season compared to last), and finally Salihamidzic (who imo is the dirtiest player around and should be banned from football altogether)...

on Gattuso vs Flamini, i have to say Flamini, despite his brainless actions sometimes, he actually can play football!!!

on Thiago Silva, every match he seems to show more strength and quality. he has already established himself as a class act and i wait anxiously every match to see him burst forward....today we found out that he has an unbelievable shot!!!

and i was really impressed with Abate's defending especially in the second half

Great result!!! looking forward for the Novara match now

Yes, it was the first time that Thiago tries his shot at Milan, I was wondering where his great shooting from distance disappeared when he joined us, because he scored some great free kicks and goals from distance back in Brazil.

But, you're hard on Salihamidzic, yes he's an *******, many people here in Bosnia don't like him, me included, but he just came back from long injury and he's their best player, scored two in the last two before tonight. Yet, when he was in Bayern he was one of the best right wing-backs in the world, he OWNED Roberto Carlos every time they clashed.